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Wasteland 2 devs open Kickstarter

SockMan! said:
I've almost never spent more than $50 on a game that was already on the shelves. Now I'm thinking of spending that much (and maybe more) for a game that won't be released for another year.

Yeah, I'm more than a little excited. I played Wasteland when I was too young to fully appreciate it, but even then I had some realization about how special it was.
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Yah, that game and Bard's Tale taught me how to read better, due to all the reading.
 
GZ: We watched your Kickstarter video which was not only informative but humorous, how similar was that to the actual process of trying to get backing for Wasteland 2 before Kickstarter?

Brian Fargo: Every single comedy bit in that Kickstarter was taken from real meetings. I had people that have never heard of Interplay, or Publishers that were excited about the product who then subsequently never called me back but sent me Facebook game requests for the games they were playing. I told myself 'This guy won't return my calls, but he wants all this stuff from me on Facebook!' And even the red boots, we were in a meeting and they sent some junior guy who wanted to sit there for an hour and talk about the color and height of the boots! So this was all drawn from reality. I kid you not.
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How is that possible?
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
How is that possible?
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about 5 years ago. Stock companies started looking at game production as a serious investment so it's hot shit right now everybody wants in. They wanna be the next EA or Activision. Honestly and [H] will hate me for saying this. Fuck big budget graphically intensive titles. I'm done with this shallow nonsense.

People buy the latest crapware like Darkness II, Syndicate, Mass effect because literally for this generation there's nothing else out there. People give games like this so much kudos for being pretty to look at and well being playable, but you can't imagine how easy these games are to churn out. Even Bethesda. Can you imagine how difficult making Morrowind was? but now look at Skyrim. I mean it's great and all.. I guess, but when you play it do you get any sense at all that somebody put every single piece of their soul into this title? That they made it because they wanted to and not because they were told to?

I'm not being nostalgic when I say this. This generation of highend publisher owned developers aren't making games because they want to, but because they're paid to and it's fucking depressing.

That's why all my money ends up going to tripwire or 1c or maybe even Deepsilver anything made by people that just want to make games hell or high water with whatever tools they have.

Ubisoft is an interesting case to look at. They obviously pay the bills with shovelware like assassins creed. Somebody may cared about the first one getting made(Though I'm sure fingers were removed when deadlines weren't met.), but if you think assassins creed 3 is really someones carefully crafted pride and joy full of all their hopes dreams and fears it's 2pm time to take your pills.

Maybe that's it. Maybe the reason so many people are ready to defend games they didn't even like and desperately run out and buy everything that's $60 is because were all on Ritalin and creativity is dead. *puts gun in mouth* BUT wait. You also notice Ubisoft is still risking investments on things like I am alive and From Dust. So what's mean? I don't know but as futile as it is I'll just keep voting with my wallet and hoping for the best. :(
 
piscian18 said:
about 5 years ago. Stock companies started looking at game production as a serious investment so it's hot shit right now everybody wants in. They wanna be the next EA or Activision. Honestly and [H] will hate me for saying this. Fuck big budget graphically intensive titles. I'm done with this shallow nonsense.

People buy the latest crapware like Darkness II, Syndicate, Mass effect because literally for this generation there's nothing else out there. People give games like this so much kudos for being pretty to look at and well being playable, but you can't imagine how easy these games are to churn out. Even Bethesda. Can you imagine how difficult making Morrowind was? but now look at Skyrim. I mean it's great and all.. I guess, but when you play it do you get any sense at all that somebody put every single piece of their soul into this title? That they made it because they wanted to and not because they were told to?

I'm not being nostalgic when I say this. This generation of highend publisher owned developers aren't making games because they want to, but because they're paid to and it's fucking depressing.

That's why all my money ends up going to tripwire or 1c or maybe even Deepsilver anything made by people that just want to make games hell or high water with whatever tools they have.

Ubisoft is an interesting case to look at. They obviously pay the bills with shovelware like assassins creed. Somebody may cared about the first one getting made(Though I'm sure fingers were removed when deadlines weren't met.), but if you think assassins creed 3 is really someones carefully crafted pride and joy full of all their hopes dreams and fears it's 2pm time to take your pills.

Maybe that's it. Maybe the reason so many people are ready to defend games they didn't even like and desperately run out and buy everything that's $60 is because were all on Ritalin and creativity is dead. *puts gun in mouth* BUT wait. You also notice Ubisoft is still risking investments on things like I am alive and From Dust. So what's mean? I don't know but as futile as it is I'll just keep voting with my wallet and hoping for the best. :(
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Gamers concern first and foremost should always be the quality of the game in question. At least that is what I believe. Not pretty graphics (which haven't been impressive since the jump to 3D anyway) or big marketing campaigns or even if the developer is some underdog kicked by "the man". Those things help, a lot, but even around here the focus is rarely on the quality of the game itself. I am Alive and From Dust look neat, but honestly fuck Ubisoft. You're right they're an interesting case, but really one I no longer wish to support. They're as bad as any other big publisher. EA releases small risky titles as well. If its something they either really like or looks like it will make a few bucks they'll go for it. It doesn't make them good or bad it's just capitalism.
 
Over $1.25 million. Now they are discussing what extra content to put in.

Likely we will see another donation surge at the end, like DF's kickstarter.
 
Has any of the Kickstarter funded games actually ever been finished? Seems like a great way to receive free money without any obligation at all on the devs part.
 
so, it was released in 1988. i bought it purely based on chance (i liked the cover), in NYC when i was 15.

no wonder people don't know this game, you need to be at least 35yo.
 
Brian Fargo said:
Even when Interplay was a large company there was such a positive vibe with everyone pulling in the same direction with a real passion for their job. I frequently run into the folks I worked with in those days, and this same memory of those times remains with them.

One friend of mine who worked with me there said recently he felt that in the beginning of the industry all the nerds were in charge, but then as the industry grew it changed, and now the guys that picked on the nerds got back on top. I think there was some great truth to that. We all hope this movement is bigger than just Tim Schafer or Brian Fargo as we want to get power back into the developers hands again.
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I'm upping my backing for this project.
 
Thuleman said:
Has any of the Kickstarter funded games actually ever been finished? Seems like a great way to receive free money without any obligation at all on the devs part.
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Kickstarter is really a new thing. Doublefine's kickstarted ended a few days ago... not enough time to get a game out.

If the devs didn't follow their promise, you'd see a civil action lawsuit.
 
Mr.Cheap said:
so, it was released in 1988. i bought it purely based on chance (i liked the cover), in NYC when i was 15.

no wonder people don't know this game, you need to be at least 35yo.
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Yeah. I'm lucky to have had an older brother who was heavily into gaming. I'm 26 atm, and would have missed out on quite a few amazing games if he didn't keep his game boxes around.
 
Bangorang said:
interview with brian

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/107335-wasteland-2-interview.html

october 2013 target date

"We also want to get people back to using their brain to solve combat issues and not make them rely on a controller. The gamers have been making this request quite loudly for years."

a tear came to my eye after reading that...bless you Brian..someone finally 'GETS IT' !!!
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I admit I love first persion RPG's, however I also love party based RPG's it just seems to me, that all the recent ones are linear and don't have much freedom with how you play them. Older ones had a lot of freedom and you could do a lot of different things however you felt like it but I feel that is what has been lost in recent years.

As long as this game as interesting turn based combat and interesting characters with a fairly open world I imagine I'll have tons of fun with it. I'm excited to see what they come up with even though it's a long way off. Heck I might even up my pledge.
 
Arrgh, matey! 'tis battle brought me out 'o th' woodwork, bucko, 'n made me gift doubloons!

If even I can gift, so can ye, ye scurvy mongrels!
 
So I looked into this a bit more, and I didn't play the original Wasteland but I did play other Interplay titles. My question is; Isn't there a reason why there aren't any top-down turn-based games around anymore?
 
Thuleman said:
So I looked into this a bit more, and I didn't play the original Wasteland but I did play other Interplay titles. My question is; Isn't there a reason why there aren't any top-down turn-based games around anymore?
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The reason is simply money. Big publishers don't see them as worth funding solely due to the numbers.
 
Thuleman said:
So I looked into this a bit more, and I didn't play the original Wasteland but I did play other Interplay titles. My question is; Isn't there a reason why there aren't any top-down turn-based games around anymore?
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Part of the reason is that rts and isometric, turn based games do not translate well on consoles. A controller is a poor substitute for keyboard and mouse when issuing commands to a party of characters, shuffling inventory, and juggling special powers and abilities. You'll never see Starcraft 2 or the Total War series on consoles until the controller is majorly revamped.

Another reason is that technology has advanced enough to give us really immersive fps experiences, which the majority of the market seems to prefer.
 
Johnked6 said:
Part of the reason is that rts and isometric, turn based games do not translate well on consoles. A controller is a poor substitute for keyboard and mouse when issuing commands to a party of characters, shuffling inventory, and juggling special powers and abilities. You'll never see Starcraft 2 or the Total War series on consoles until the controller is majorly revamped.

Another reason is that technology has advanced enough to give us really immersive fps experiences, which the majority of the market seems to prefer.
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If there was any real money to be made in these types of games it wouldn't matter if they worked well on a console or not.
 
Derangel said:
If there was any real money to be made in these types of games it wouldn't matter if they worked well on a console or not.
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I was explaining possible reasons as to why these types of games do not make a lot of money. Poor sales is an effect but not the cause of the problem, something is causing the poor sales. Since the lion share of AAA publishers cater to the console market a genre that does not offer a compelling game play experience on consoles will be instantly marginalized.

Combine that with the fact that a large portion of the casual market likes fast paced, easy to understand, graphically immersive experiences, something that turn based game play does not offer and we can begin to understand why it's been left behind by most developers.
 
Derangel said:
If there was any real money to be made in these types of games it wouldn't matter if they worked well on a console or not.
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Depends on what you mean by "real money". The thing is why I've no doubt that no matter how good this game is, it won't reach BF3 sales figures, that doesn't mean there isn't money to be made. When you are competing in the crowded market of shooters and the kind of shit all other companies do yes there are more consumers but there is more competition too. Go to the lesser tread markets and there is money to be made.

Civ 5 is an example. PC only, turn based strategy, and yet it made enough money to make an expansion something worth doing. I'm quite sure it didn't make BF3 money but them I'm also pretty sure it didn't have a BF3 budget either.

It is short sighted to say "We should only do things that make the most money." The real thing should be to look for projects that are likely to make a non-trivial return in relation to their investment. A $2 million game that nets $20 million is actually more worthwhile than a $30 million game that nets $50 million. While the higher cost game is actually a greater return, it is less percentage wise and was a bigger risk.
 
Sycraft said:
Depends on what you mean by "real money". The thing is why I've no doubt that no matter how good this game is, it won't reach BF3 sales figures, that doesn't mean there isn't money to be made. When you are competing in the crowded market of shooters and the kind of shit all other companies do yes there are more consumers but there is more competition too. Go to the lesser tread markets and there is money to be made.

Civ 5 is an example. PC only, turn based strategy, and yet it made enough money to make an expansion something worth doing. I'm quite sure it didn't make BF3 money but them I'm also pretty sure it didn't have a BF3 budget either.

It is short sighted to say "We should only do things that make the most money." The real thing should be to look for projects that are likely to make a non-trivial return in relation to their investment. A $2 million game that nets $20 million is actually more worthwhile than a $30 million game that nets $50 million. While the higher cost game is actually a greater return, it is less percentage wise and was a bigger risk.
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As long as the devs are happy with the money they are making and the players are enjoying the game it doesn't matter how much money the project makes as long as it covers the devs expenses.

I think Wasteland 2 will do pretty well.
 
I pledged $100 to this. I never played the original (but it sounds like I should try it out.) I actually played through F1 & F2 for the first time only a few years ago. I guess I just didn't get the appeal of these types of games back then. Not to mention I was a broke kid anyway.
 
1.412 Million now just need 89K before the devs do Linux and Mac support. If Fallout 4 and this release at the same time I'm going to be very busy though.
 
sculelos said:
1.412 Million now just need 89K before the devs do Linux and Mac support. If Fallout 4 and this release at the same time I'm going to be very busy though.
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It'll probably be 3-4 years before we see Fallout 4. Bethesda will be working on Skyrim dlc for another year, then 2-3 years for Fallout development.
 
I don't see why we would want Bethesda to dev Fallout 4. Maybe Fargo can kickstarter some money to buy back the IP, then farm it out to Tim Cain for a contract ;)

(HA)
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I don't see why we would want Bethesda to dev Fallout 4. Maybe Fargo can kickstarter some money to buy back the IP, then farm it out to Tim Cain for a contract ;)

(HA)
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I still wish we could have the same combination that we had on New Vegas for a Fallout 4.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I don't see why we would want Bethesda to dev Fallout 4. Maybe Fargo can kickstarter some money to buy back the IP, then farm it out to Tim Cain for a contract ;)

(HA)
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Not so fast. Let's wait and see what he does with W2 first. And who knows, maybe Obsidian will make F4 instead of Bethesda.
 
Glad to see the [H] community is aware of this awesome project. Can't wait until the work-in-progress screenshots start rolling in!
 
I hope the pacing of the combat is much faster in this game then Fallout 1 or 2, both of them where super slow at pacing. I much rather liked the pacing in games like Shining Force or Fire Emblem or even Baulder's Gate.
 
sculelos said:
I hope the pacing of the combat is much faster in this game then Fallout 1 or 2, both of them where super slow at pacing. I much rather liked the pacing in games like Shining Force or Fire Emblem or even Baulder's Gate.
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The pacing will be more like Wasteland, I'd imagine. Fallout 1-2 pacing was fine IMO as not many enemies had a ton of HP. Most fights could be determined in a couple rounds.

I think maybe you just don't like turn based.
 
http://kickingitforward.org/

Reading this initiative makes me think that Fargo is a genuinely good guy who really does care about making games people want to play, and helping other developers to make good games. In hindsight, its such a shame that interplay died in the way that it did, would be nice to have at least one other publisher apart from valve that doesn't prioritize bleeding its user base dry over and above everything else.
 
Wasteland 2 just recently passed $1.5 million with almost 30,000 backers and 24 days remaining. Any bets on whether this will surpass Double Fine's $3.3 million?
 
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