I use the same setup, and yes it is a nightmare. I ended up having to bind A to a mouse button...
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WASD / ESDF Question For PC Gamers
- Thread starter ballpoint
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I use the same setup, and yes it is a nightmare. I ended up having to bind A to a mouse button...
WASD with my middle finger on W. Its just a hassle rebinding keys and I've never felt like I dont have enough keys at my disposal.
I think it also depends how you hold your hand on the keyboard. I personally use my little finger for ctrl (crouch) and shift (run). I do this not by "clawing" my hand to press the keys but rather by pressing the ctrl with the bottom of my little finger and the shift with the tip of my finger, effectively rolling my finger between the two buttons. This lets me use ctrl and shift independantly without having to shift the position of my hand or any fingers. I can press both together or quickly swap from one to the other with very little effort.
When I tried ESDF, I simply could not get used to pressing keys with my little finger and found it less efficient than rolling between shift and ctrl. So even though ESDF put my keys at my disposal, it felt less efficient in how I could actually use the keys.
But yeah, that's how I roll
I really dont think it makes a hell of a lot of difference for 99% of gamers, its just what you get used to. WASD is the default in all games I've played, so I have no intention of attempting to learn something else.
I think it also depends how you hold your hand on the keyboard. I personally use my little finger for ctrl (crouch) and shift (run). I do this not by "clawing" my hand to press the keys but rather by pressing the ctrl with the bottom of my little finger and the shift with the tip of my finger, effectively rolling my finger between the two buttons. This lets me use ctrl and shift independantly without having to shift the position of my hand or any fingers. I can press both together or quickly swap from one to the other with very little effort.
When I tried ESDF, I simply could not get used to pressing keys with my little finger and found it less efficient than rolling between shift and ctrl. So even though ESDF put my keys at my disposal, it felt less efficient in how I could actually use the keys.
But yeah, that's how I roll
I really dont think it makes a hell of a lot of difference for 99% of gamers, its just what you get used to. WASD is the default in all games I've played, so I have no intention of attempting to learn something else.I don't buy distance-to-modifiers as a significant part of the reason that WASD is so prominent. I have to conclude WASD is the default simply because it's what players have gotten used to, and what designers expect players to expect.
Every time I sit a friend down to play at my PC and explain that it's ESDF and not WASD, it takes them all of fifteen minutes tog et used to it. Then they prefer it.
WASD = amateur
ESDF = pro
Every time I sit a friend down to play at my PC and explain that it's ESDF and not WASD, it takes them all of fifteen minutes tog et used to it. Then they prefer it.
WASD = amateur
ESDF = pro
How many friends have you converted?
I have an ESDF friend who has tried to get me to use his control style and I've never liked it. My longest session was probably 20 minutes worth of ESDF. The way my hand naturally lays across the keyboard, its simply not as comfortable to use ESDF compared to WASD. If anything I'd use RDFG before I use ESDF as it just falls more naturally for my fingers.That said, I'm not remotely offended by not being called a pro gamer... there's very few endeavours that being "pro" in draws negativity rather than higher status, gaming, however is one of those things. There's very few positive stereotypes or mental images associated with a "pro" gamer
How many friends have you converted?
That said, I'm not remotely offended by not being called a pro gamer... there's very few endeavours that being "pro" in draws negativity rather than higher status, gaming, however is one of those things. There's very few positive stereotypes or mental images associated with a "pro" gamer
Only a couple friends have been converted, to be honest. But it's everyone who has tried it who came in playing WASD. Conversion to ESDF has been much more successful than converting people away from a backwards vertical mouse axis.
"Pro/Amateur" describes the approach and not the actual status of the person in question. I'm no pro gamer. But I try to act pro in everything I do from making breakfast to playing games. I care very little about stigmas... it matters to me what a given individual who I know personally thinks... the crowd, the mass-mind of stupid me-too idiots, can go ahead and think it's lame to be "pro" at gaming.
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I was just kidding about the pro stuff I just find it amusing when I hear people use the term. Then again, I game to have fun, not to be competitive, once my joy becomes dependant on my competitiveness, it means I've been playing too long
My friend who uses ESDF, I noticed he used a much more claw like hand on his keyboard, compared to me where I lay my fingers flatter on the keyboard, so ESDF wasn't comfortable like WASD. Honestly though, I think the difference in actual in-game performance is so tiny its not measurable Hell, I still out do my mate in some games and he out does me in other games even though he has many more hours in FPS games than I.
At the end of the day, either control system works fine, WASD is the default so I'm glad I use it, my mate always has to change the keybindings in every game he plays (especially when I come to his house and mess up all his controls for him) whereas I dont.
I just find it amusing when I hear people use the term. Then again, I game to have fun, not to be competitive, once my joy becomes dependant on my competitiveness, it means I've been playing too long My friend who uses ESDF, I noticed he used a much more claw like hand on his keyboard, compared to me where I lay my fingers flatter on the keyboard, so ESDF wasn't comfortable like WASD. Honestly though, I think the difference in actual in-game performance is so tiny its not measurable
Hell, I still out do my mate in some games and he out does me in other games even though he has many more hours in FPS games than I.At the end of the day, either control system works fine, WASD is the default so I'm glad I use it, my mate always has to change the keybindings in every game he plays (especially when I come to his house and mess up all his controls for him
) whereas I dont.Yeah, it's all about fun and just being into what you're doing. I started the thread because I was setting up BF3 controls and it occured to me that I could play WASD without moving my hand over (but, no, ESDF still better).The answer to my original question seems to be that most people move their hand over.
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what pro scene have you played in? did you ever compete at a high level? i highly doubt that is the case because almost all pro players will prefer to have a fast sprint/crouch rather than having a couple extra useless keys that they dont need.
Nightrainsrt4
Limp Gawd
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I must be odd. I use WASD, but I use my ring finger on W. Pinky on A, and the pointer pulls off F onto D.
My middle is ready to hit E when necessary, and the split second it takes to hit R with the pointer finger doesn't really affect any straffing as it's back on D quite quickly, and I have the middle that can pull down to D if needed.. The pinky pulls off A for any of the left modifiers.
The pointer hits C, as I use that most of the time for crouch, and assign something less crucial to control.
I guess I use AWED, pinky to pointer. Just felt natural to me as my hand stays with the home row, the pointer just pulls over one.
Shrug. Just use whatever feels most natural.
My middle is ready to hit E when necessary, and the split second it takes to hit R with the pointer finger doesn't really affect any straffing as it's back on D quite quickly, and I have the middle that can pull down to D if needed.. The pinky pulls off A for any of the left modifiers.
The pointer hits C, as I use that most of the time for crouch, and assign something less crucial to control.
I guess I use AWED, pinky to pointer. Just felt natural to me as my hand stays with the home row, the pointer just pulls over one.
Shrug. Just use whatever feels most natural.
All you have to do is rebind those keys. I usually use A for run and it works very well but I could keep shift as run without reaching. For crouch it depends on if the game uses toggle crouch or hold, if its hold I would use Z or a mouse button preferebly, if its toggle then it can be any button near my left hand or still put it on the mouse.
I just think it would be nice if games started coming with optional esdf presets. Its not like it would be hard to add.
What pro scene have you played in? Are you typing on a keyboard right now? How long does it take you to press A? Compared to pressing SHIFT in WASD? What about if you start with your finger on shift? Does it take longer?
Those are rhetorical.
See my comment about not claiming to be a professional gamer. I've been in some clans over the years.
My pinky sits on A in ESDF, which is bound to sprint. Or it can sit on Shift which is either walk or crouch or melee.
Those are rhetorical.
See my comment about not claiming to be a professional gamer. I've been in some clans over the years.
My pinky sits on A in ESDF, which is bound to sprint. Or it can sit on Shift which is either walk or crouch or melee.
Parmenides
Supreme [H]ardness
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Would be nice to use ring finger, give me more access to other keys... but the ring finger is too weak for quick flexible action of moving front/back.
ive already stated what ive played.
which is more natural middlefinger on W, ring on A, index on D, and pink on shift, or your way. if you look at the way your hand is positioned u would know why WASD is the way to go
ESDF is more natural.
I would ask if you've ever tried ESDF. Because I've tried WASD plenty.
so tilting ur hand sideways is more natural than it being straight? do u hold ur house on an angle too?
??
My hand's not tilted sideways. I keep my hand in normal typing position, which is not sideways.
I re-bind CTRL to a slow action. Shift is not a slow key. I use A for what's usually bound to Shift or CTRL by default.
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BurntToast
2[H]4U
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Zoom can not be rebindable to a key, it has to be bindable to a mouse button. So I currently have Zoom bound to my mouse thumb button. Without zoom you cant shoot accurately. Having it the thumb button sucks because every time you lift the mouse it is very hard to zoom. So moving while zoomed is a pita.
Lulz and I play with my keybroad at a angle.
I use Dpad for wasd
Num 0 - Jump
R Ctrl - Crouch
R Shift - Sprint
Enter - use ( or | in BC2 cuz you cant rebind the squad button from enter)
Del, End, Page up, down - for L4D grief binds, nades and random keys.
oh and / for prone in DODS
M3 reload
M4 push to talk in most games or cmd/spotting (Q) in BC2 easy XP.
M5 Knife/Melee
I use Dpad for wasd
Num 0 - Jump
R Ctrl - Crouch
R Shift - Sprint
Enter - use ( or | in BC2 cuz you cant rebind the squad button from enter)
Del, End, Page up, down - for L4D grief binds, nades and random keys.
oh and / for prone in DODS
M3 reload
M4 push to talk in most games or cmd/spotting (Q) in BC2 easy XP.
M5 Knife/Melee
Yup, WASD. Need to be close for the pinkie to reach the shift/left ctrl keys.
I do hotkey my mouse side and scroll buttons, mostly for getting out of trouble (potions, instaheals, powershield) since I can activate everything with a hail mary squeeze.
I do hotkey my mouse side and scroll buttons, mostly for getting out of trouble (potions, instaheals, powershield) since I can activate everything with a hail mary squeeze.
that has its downsides, like my shaman going "oops i just fatfingered ns" right before we engage the deadly gladiator dk/pal in s6 lolol.
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I use the arrow keys & I'm right handed. It feels the best for me.
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So you use a right handed mouse and left hand shifted all the way over on your keyboards arrow keys? That seems uncomfortable to me, but to each their own. If it works for you then more power to ya.
ESDF is more natural for typing, not so much for gaming, at least for me. I guess I type weirdly, but I dont always use my little finger for pressing A and Z when typing. I touch type in the sense that I dont look at the keyboard, but I dont strictly assign each key to a finger, I just use whatever finger feels most natural at the time. So eg. for typing "at" just then, I used little finger for A, but when I typed "whatever", I used my ring finger for A.
When typing, my hand stays pretty closely to ASDF, but not strictly over it at all times, and yeah, pressing A and Z with my little finger is less comfortable and slower, so I dont always use my little finger to type those keys, it also frees up my little finger for "shift". Also when typing my fingers are constantly moving from one key to the next, so my fingers are active and not just hovering rigidly over my keyboard all the time.
Gaming on the other hand, my hand stays pretty much stationary the entire time. 90% of the time I'm pressing forward/run/crouch/sidestep, so I find it more "natural" to lay my fingers across my keyboard in a more relaxed fashion when gaming compared to when I type, since the vast majority of the time I'm just pressing those same keys. So yeah, for me, its both faster and more comfortable to use my little finger to press ctrl and shift for crouch/run than it is to use A.
I dont really see the big deal with moving your hand between typing and gaming... they're two uniquely different tasks so it doesn't mean they both will be comfortable using the same hand positioning. When I press Y,U,J or K to chat in game, I usually use my left hand to do it rather than my right hand, since its quicker in the context of gaming. I'm constantly taking my hands off my keyboard while gaming anyway just to stretch and reduce the onset of RSI
Also I can't believe I wasted that much time thinking about it and typing up this wall of text post
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ESDF gives you more actionable keys, this may more may not matter depending on what level of gamer you are. But in OLDER PC games, like quake and UT, where you had a jillion guns to swap through, it mattered and you needed them.
In no skill new games, BF, COD, ARMA, where you don't have all that, you don't need the extra keys so it's a wash.
Games have become massively less complex and taken massively less skill since shooters went realism, PC gaming went to the dogs along with it and then that aids infected consoles. But you no longer have 11 weapons to bind, along with custom FOV binds with the gun.
ESDF is superior, provided you're playing a game that can use it, and ScrubField, Srub of Duty, do not.
In no skill new games, BF, COD, ARMA, where you don't have all that, you don't need the extra keys so it's a wash.
Games have become massively less complex and taken massively less skill since shooters went realism, PC gaming went to the dogs along with it and then that aids infected consoles. But you no longer have 11 weapons to bind, along with custom FOV binds with the gun.
ESDF is superior, provided you're playing a game that can use it, and ScrubField, Srub of Duty, do not.
WhatTheSchmidt
Limp Gawd
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WASD for me but I use ring finger for w
that way I can use E without taking pointer finger off D if I want...(I think this is why I do it this way...)
that way I can use E without taking pointer finger off D if I want...(I think this is why I do it this way...)
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That's the reason I went with ESDF over WASD when I was big into the original Quake. I didn't like WASD as I lost the ability to bind Rocket Launcher to W and the Lightning Gun to Q.
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Yeah, I'm ambidextrous but lack of precise writing skill in the left hand. I suspect that I was born left-handed & since schools focus on righ-handedness, I've adapted accordingly. It might be a right brain preference that overrides what most righties would consider uncomfortable. I never could get WASD or any other variant within the keys to work right for my left hand.
tried esdf, didnt like it.
Main issue is i'm SO used to using ctrl as crouch, and i have small hands so the extra reach is not doable. Plus i'm very used to the positioning of 1234 to get my fast rockets off in BC2.
w-forward
a-strafe left
s-backward
d-strafe right
shift - run/walk
ctrl - toggle crouch
q/e - spot/use or lean left/right
f - grenade/use (depends if lean is present)
m1 - shoot
m2 - aim
m3 - melee
m4 - grenade
Main issue is i'm SO used to using ctrl as crouch, and i have small hands so the extra reach is not doable. Plus i'm very used to the positioning of 1234 to get my fast rockets off in BC2.
w-forward
a-strafe left
s-backward
d-strafe right
shift - run/walk
ctrl - toggle crouch
q/e - spot/use or lean left/right
f - grenade/use (depends if lean is present)
m1 - shoot
m2 - aim
m3 - melee
m4 - grenade
Almost everyone's reason given for preferring WASD is "I can't reach CTRL in ESDF." ... CTRL is important in WASD, not ESDF.
The point of ESDF is you re-map the WASD default controls around the ESDF cluster. ESDF gives you more keys to work with ... take whatever's bound to CTRL and bind it to one of these newly available keys. If you must use CTRL assign it to a slow command like a spawn menu or inventory, etc. Until then you have not really tried ESDF.
If you love a control set that makes CAPS LOCK and the windows key two of the closest keys, and makes your pinky next to useless (except for your beloved shift/ctrl), then more power to you (noob power).
The point of ESDF is you re-map the WASD default controls around the ESDF cluster. ESDF gives you more keys to work with ... take whatever's bound to CTRL and bind it to one of these newly available keys. If you must use CTRL assign it to a slow command like a spawn menu or inventory, etc. Until then you have not really tried ESDF.
If you love a control set that makes CAPS LOCK and the windows key two of the closest keys, and makes your pinky next to useless (except for your beloved shift/ctrl), then more power to you (noob power).
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bigdogchris
Fully [H]
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WASD myself.
l-ctrl - crouch
z - prone
shift - run
l-ctrl - crouch
z - prone
shift - run
That's another thing... pretty sure there were no Windows keys around when WASD was created.
TRIBES 2 used ESDF by default, come to think of it. Because it needed a lot of commands to be available. Possibly my favourite game of all time, at least multiplayer.
WASD was used by the 8-bit Wolfenstein on Apple ii. This is why Romero used it for Wolfenstein 3D. Then he stuck with it for DOOM, then every DOOM clone like Duke Nukem used it, then QUAKE, and by the mid-late 90s most PC gamers were accustomed WASD or arrow keys (I used arrow keys until Quake 3). It's just a traditional way of doing things, not according to what's best, but what's expected and requires the least thinking/adjustment.
TRIBES 2 used ESDF by default, come to think of it. Because it needed a lot of commands to be available. Possibly my favourite game of all time, at least multiplayer.
WASD was used by the 8-bit Wolfenstein on Apple ii. This is why Romero used it for Wolfenstein 3D. Then he stuck with it for DOOM, then every DOOM clone like Duke Nukem used it, then QUAKE, and by the mid-late 90s most PC gamers were accustomed WASD or arrow keys (I used arrow keys until Quake 3). It's just a traditional way of doing things, not according to what's best, but what's expected and requires the least thinking/adjustment.
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Fact is, for me, ctrl and shift in WASD are easier to use that the other keys surrounding ESDF. When I place my hand over my keyboard in WASD, my little finger naturally falls over ctrl and shift, its not "that's what I've gotten use to", its a fact, I place my hand on the keyboard in WASD in its most natural position and my little finger falls on ctrl and shift.
When I place my fingers in ESDF, my little finger naturally falls on the windows key and half way between Z and shift. To get my little finger to fall on Z I need to curl my fingers and tuck it slightly under my ring finger. To get my little finger to fall on A, I have to curl my fingers even further until my little finger falls on the A. This is less comfortable and slower than having my little finger on ctrl and shift on WASD. Maybe you like your fingers curled up when gaming, I dont.
I dont deny ESDF offers more keys to potentially use, but WASD, for me, better fits how my hand naturally falls across the keyboard. For the short time I tried ESDF it never got comfortable and felt like it'd be more likely to give me RSI in a long gaming session.
And really, the difference is so incredibly fuck all, who really cares? I find WASD more efficient and more comfortable and its the default in the vast majority of games, ESDF has more keys available. Claims of "noob" or "pro" for one style or the other is the absolute height of the PC elitism that turn people away from PC gaming.
why would u bind crucial keys (like ctrl and shift) to smaller buttons? seriously. and most of you guys are talking about fps where you dont need access to extra keys. fps are about reaction time and not about how many useless keys you get access to.
whatever its pointless arguing keybinding with people whos not pro at the actual games. which is about 99% of the total gaming population
whatever its pointless arguing keybinding with people whos not pro at the actual games. which is about 99% of the total gaming population
Do you have some kind of deformed hand that you pinky falls on windows key in ESDF? I gotta call BS on that one.
I'm sorry but claiming the larger size of the key makes it easier (or faster) to hit is hilariously noobish.
Seriously? Calling BS on how my hand naturally falls on the KB? LOL
Natural WASD where my hand sits while gaming...
Natural ESDF
Slightly curled up and tucked under to reach Z
Curled up more to reach A
Now the last picture is close to where my hand sits while TYPING, however that's not the most comfortable position for GAMING.
EDIT: Those pictures makes my little finger look very twisted
it is slightly twisted, but the angle I took the photos at exaggerates it since you can't see the rest of my hand, lol. Fact is, if I just put my middle finger on E for an ESDF setup without thinking about it, the middle of my little finger falls over the windows key and the tip between shift and Z. When I place my middle finger on W, the middle of my little finger falls on ctrl and the tip on shift, a perfect and comfortable position to roll my little finger between the two keys quickly, with little effort and I can even press both at the same time quite comfortably if I so desired.
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Um, it doesn't look like your finger is on the Windows key in either ESDF?
I would say, based on those photos: try ESDF.
I had the Black Widow for a while before returning it because I need the CTRL key to be the bottom-left key on the keyboard for work.
I would say, based on those photos: try ESDF.
I had the Black Widow for a while before returning it because I need the CTRL key to be the bottom-left key on the keyboard for work.
Seriously? Calling BS on how my hand naturally falls on the KB? LOL
Now the last picture is close to where my hand sits while TYPING, however that's not the most comfortable position for GAMING.
EDIT: Those pictures makes my little finger look very twisted