Want to build a scalable high quality barebones gaming system. Need advice.

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SirWilliam

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Want to build a scalable high quality barebones gaming system. Need advice.

I am looking to buy a new desktop that will last me for 4 years or longer for gaming. Right now I do not want to spend a lot of money ($1500-$2000) so I will probably be forgoing a lot of things that I can add in later.

I am just wondering what components are most important in a system to make it usable for a long period of time. I do not mind buying new graphics cards every couple of years, or upgrading RAM. I just do not really want to deal with new motherboards and chipsets. So what should I be looking for?

I really like Maingear’s systems and will probably be buying from them as they seem like a quality product…also if you can recommend any other high quality boutiques that do professional wiring please let me know.

This is a system I have put together from Maingear for $1840:

Exterior Finish: Black Brushed Aluminum Finish
Power Supply: 650W Ultra Quiet Power Supply
Graphics Accelerator: NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 260 896MB GDDR3 w/ PhysX
Motherboard: Intel® Desktop Board DX58SO X58 Chipset
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-920 2.66GHz
Processor Cooling: Intel Retail Quiet Cooler
Memory: 3GB Triple Channel DDR3 1066
Hard Drive One: Western Digital Caviar Black 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache - SATA II
Optical Drive One: 20X Dual Layer DVD±RW Drive w/ LightScribe Technology
PhysX Accelerator: NVIDIA PhysX Accelerator
Sound: Intel® High Definition 8-channel Dolby Home Theater
Network Card: Onboard Dual Marvell 88E8056 Gigabit Controller
Security Software: Free Antivirus Software
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (64-Bit) SP1
The Final Finesse: Flawless Hand-crafted Wiring and Cable Management
Warranty: 14 Month Standard Maingear Warranty


I made this one as well for $1440.
Exterior Finish: Black Brushed Aluminum Finish
Supply: 650W Ultra Quiet Power Supply
Graphics Accelerator: NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 260 896MB GDDR3 w/ PhysX
Processor: AMD Phenom™ X4 9950 BLACK EDITION (2.6GHz x 4)
Processor Cooling: AMD Retail Quiet Cooler
Memory: 2GB Kingston PC2-6400 DDR2-800 (2x1GB)
Motherboard: Asus M3A78-T 790GX/SB750 Socket AM2+ with GDDR3 SidePort Memory CrossFire
Hard Drive One: Western Digital Caviar Black 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache - SATA II
Optical Drive One: 20X Dual Layer DVD±RW Drive w/ LightScribe Technology
Network Card: Integrated Gigabit Network Card
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (64-Bit) SP1
The Final Finesse: Flawless Hand-crafted Wiring and Cable Management
Warranty: 14 Month Standard Maingear Warranty



Thank you in advance for any replies.
 
"The Final Finesse: Flawless Hand-crafted Wiring and Cable Management"

Nice. They top off each build with verbal bullshit ;)

both systems look good :)
 
If upgradability is important,then a Core i7 system is the way to go.
 
The problem, whether or it's Maingear's fault or yours, is that the manufacturer and model number of the 650W PSU is not listed. For all we know, Maingear could be saddlin' you with a shitty 650W PSU. So please find out what that 650W PSU is.

Other boutiques to look at:
- AVADirect
- Puget Systems
- Velocity Micro

Also drop the PhysX unless it's free or something. Not worth spending the money for right now.

As for which parts are the most important in a system to make it usable for a long time, that's not the reason why a PC lasts so long. The main reason why a PC could be used for a long time is TOTALLY dependent on the user and his/her needs in a PC, not entirely on the PC parts themselves. For many people out there who just use their PC for web browsing, word processing and other general tasks, even a Pentium 4 system or Intel Atom CPU is enough. In your particular case, there's a good chance that you will be CPU limited in games in about 3 years (maybe 2 if games advance far enough) no matter which video card or CPU (well maybe not the Core i7 920 if you overclock that sucker to 3.6Ghz or more) you go with, assuming that you want high FPS at medium/high settings.
 
Drop the AMD set up if you plan on getting that close. For $400 the i7 can overclock to meet your needs for a long time.

No rig will last 4 years with full graphics. If you don't have the money now, go with a cheap quad core build.
 
Danny Bui won't recommend them (because of differing views on what is "reasonable" :D luv yas Danny! http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1355840) but the company mentioned in that thread is very good on prices (probably the best) and customer care.

Don't use the configurator, just sign up on the forums and ask Max directly for a quote.
 
I'll second the recommendation for Max,I've yet to hear a bad word about them.There was a time I'd have recommended AVA,but they seem to have problems lately.
 
Danny Bui said:
The problem, whether or it's Maingear's fault or yours, is that the manufacturer and model number of the 650W PSU is not listed. For all we know, Maingear could be saddlin' you with a shitty 650W PSU. So please find out what that 650W PSU is.
Click to expand...

It's confirmed by MG as an Nspire model
 
I just went through the same process, so I'll add my comments for what their worth.

I think you need a bigger power supply to allow for further graphics cards upgrades. You could also drop the sound card (unless the onboard sound won't be enough for what you want). Looks like Maingears GPUs come automatically with the PhysX option.

I considered especially Velocity Micro, Maingear, and Puget. Of those, VM is clearly the least expensive, but Maingear and Puget are both smaller, and I'd say, higher-quality builders. I ended up going with Puget, since my priority was more about getting a high-quality expandable system than than a cheaper one with the most bang for the buck.

The pros are that Puget are transparent and straightforward and use simple configurations with high-quality parts (probably as close as you can get to building a machine yourself in some bizzaro world where I wanted to build one myself and was an expert in doing so). They were also great to deal with in placing my order. (I don't have the computer yet, so can't attest personally to the result.)

The con is that, based on what I configured, Puget is very expensive, even more expensive than maingear. I don't think you'll be able to configure an i7-system from them for under $2,000. (The system I ordered, with an i7-920, ATI 4870, a 1000W power supply, and 6Gbs of Kingston value RAM came to $3200).

Maingear also seems very good. But it looks like the Maingear you configured is their Prelude model. For future upgrades, I think you'd be much better off going with their F131 model. Here's one I configured for almost less than $2000:

Power Supply: 750W Silverstone Strider Power Supply
Graphics Accelerator: NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 260 896MB GDDR3 w/ PhysX
Motherboard: Asus P6T Intel X58 Chipset
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-920 2.66GHz
Processor Cooling: Intel Retail Quiet Cooler
Memory: 3GB Triple Channel DDR3 1066
Hard Drive One: Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache - SATA II
Optical Drive One: 20X Dual Layer DVD±RW Drive w/ LightScribe Technology
Sound: Onboard ADI AD2000B 8-channel HD Audio
Network Card: Onboard Dual Marvell 88E8056 Gigabit Controller
Security Software: Free Antivirus Software
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (64-Bit) SP1
The Final Finesse: Flawless Hand-crafted Wiring and Cable Management
Warranty: 14 Month Standard Maingear Warranty
$2007
Click to expand...

If you do buy something from Maingear (probably what I'd do given your price constraints) you could post on their forums to get more detailed advice.
 
What blows my mind about Puget is that their prices are really going up of late. They now top Falcon NW in $$$, which a year ago would have been laughable.

Go price a mid-range Falcon NW Mach V with a comparable Puget machine. You'll be surprised. Hell, the Falcon NW machine will actually have slightly better components (285 vs 280 for instance) and come in at a lesser price. Their reputation is certainly the match of any builder out there.

Puget, unfortunately, has priced themselves up into the super-boutique range but their offerings might not match their "new" competitors when it comes to sheer luxury.

I really respect the Puget folks and their quality is certainly quite good, but they've moved well beyond the MG/VM niche with their pricing. I'm not sure what made this necessary for them but I hope it works out cause they seem to be good folks.
 
flurp said:
Go price a mid-range Falcon NW Mach V with a comparable Puget machine. You'll be surprised. Hell, the Falcon NW machine will actually have slightly better components (285 vs 280 for instance) and come in at a lesser price. Their reputation is certainly the match of any builder out there.
Click to expand...

I'd done this, in fact.

I'd say that a mid-range Falcon Mach V still tends to come out a little more than a comparible Puget machine when you really try to match them component by component, but basically they cost about the same, which is quite a bit.

Puget, unfortunately, has priced themselves up into the super-boutique range but their offerings might not match their "new" competitors when it comes to sheer luxury.
Click to expand...

Of course, a luxurious Falcon Mach V with a paint job would cost a lot more than a plain Mach V or a Puget.

I really respect the Puget folks and their quality is certainly quite good, but they've moved well beyond the MG/VM niche with their pricing.
Click to expand...


Puget is definitely in a different niche from VM, but I don't think they're that far from MainGear -- I'd say a Puget system costs about 10% more than a comparible MG system, but MG has more options for less expensive components if you want to keep the price down.

I'm not sure what made this necessary for them but I hope it works out cause they seem to be good folks.
Click to expand...

Yah, Puget seems like they're good people with a serious interest in making a quality product, so I hope so too (for more reasons than the purely altruistic ones, since I just ordered a computer from them ;) ).

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread on Building a Scalable High Quality Barebones Gaming System.
 
Well, actually, the price difference in the last 3-6 months has creeped up to be around 25% more for comparable Puget/MG rigs.

i7 920
260 (if you go to the 280, you're looking at a 30% plus differential)

That's not even accounting for the clearly superior Silverstone (tj10) case that MG offers standard on the f131. A supremely upgradeable design with excellent quality. Upgrading to the tj07 at Puget would run you an additional $250 not accounted for above.

If you look at a Core2 build, the price differential is even greater (upwards of 40%)

Like I said, the Puget folks are good people and their record on support is top-notch. If you buy a rig from them, you're almost guaranteed to get something that is solid, well supported and that will make you happy.

The question each buyer has to ask themselves however is how much of a markup are you willing to pay for customer service and support? And even then, how much better is the support at Puget over MG, who also has very, very solid reviews on both counts?
 
Ah, I'd wondered what case MainGear used in the F131. (One of the things I like about Puget is they tell you exactly what parts they're using.) It looks like MG's default windowless case is the Silverstone TJ09 ($290 at newegg) whereas Puget defaults to an Antex P182 ($170 at newegg) on their core i7 systems. So that's definitely in MG's favor (though they offer less customizability than Puget on the case).

Based on what you said, I went back and configured some systems at Maingear and Puget, making them as similar as I could (except for the cases).

Here's a couple of minimal i7-systems

MainGear

Exterior Finish: Black Brushed Aluminum Finish
Power Supply: 750W Silverstone Strider Power Supply
Graphics Accelerator: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT 512MB
Motherboard: Asus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 Chipset
Processor: Intel Core i7-920 2.66GHz
Processor Cooling: Intel Retail Quiet Cooler
Memory: 3GB Triple Channel DDR3 1066
Hard Drive One: Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB
Optical Drive One: 20X Dual Layer DVD±RW Drive w/ LightScribe Technology
Sound: Onboard ADI AD2000B 8-channel HD Audio
Network Card: Onboard Dual Marvell 88E8056 Gigabit Controller
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (32-Bit) SP1
Warranty: 14 Month Standard Maingear Warranty
Product Subtotal: $1,896.61

Puget

Motherboard: Asus P6T Deluxe
CPU: Intel Core i7 QUAD CORE 920 2.66GHz 8MB
Ram: 3 x Kingston DDR3-1333 1024MB
Video Card: XFX GeForce 9800GT 512MB
Sound Card: Onboard Sound
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB
CD / DVD Rom: Pioneer 20X DVD-RW
Case: Antec P182 (Gunmetal Finish)
Power Supply: Corsair TX 750W Power Supply
CPU Cooling: Stock Intel Core i7 1366 CPU Fan
Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit OEM SP1
Services: Warranty: Lifetime Labor, 1 Year Parts
Total: $2230.15
Click to expand...

So that's about 18% more for the Puget system. It's true that the difference is bigger for the GTX cards e.g. $1896.61 vs. $2252.11 for a GTX 260 896MB system and $2096.61 vs. $2652.99 for a GTX 280 system (which is up over 25%). But there's something strange specifically about the 280 pricing: in comparison with the 260, Maingear charges +$75 and Puget charges +$217. I've no idea why there's such a big difference.

Here's two more expensive systems configured with an AT 4870 (I think the RAM is the same, but I'm not certain)

MainGear

Exterior Finish: Black Brushed Aluminum Finish
Power Supply: 1000W Silverstone Strider Power Supply
Graphics Accelerator: ATI Radeon HD 4870 1GB
Motherboard: Asus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 Chipset
Processor: Intel Core i7-920 2.66GHz
Processor Cooling: Intel Retail Quiet Cooler
Memory: 6GB Kingston HyperX 1600MHz
Hard Drive One: Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB
Hard Drive Two: Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB
Optical Drive One: 20X Dual Layer DVD±RW Drive w/ LightScribe Technology
Sound: Onboard ADI AD2000B 8-channel HD Audio
Network Card: Onboard Dual Marvell 88E8056 Gigabit Controller
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (32-Bit) SP1
Warranty: 14 Month Standard Maingear Warranty
Product Subtotal: $3,084.78

Puget

Motherboard: Asus P6T Deluxe
CPU: Intel Core i7 QUAD CORE 920 2.66GHz
Ram: 3 x Kingston HyperX DDR3-1375 2048MB
Video Card: Asus Radeon HD 4870 1GB
Sound Card: Onboard Sound
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB
Second Hard Drive: Western Digital SATA VelociRaptor 300GB
CD / DVD Rom: Pioneer 20X DVD-RW SATA
Case: Antec P182 (Gunmetal Finish)
Power Supply: Corsair HX 1000W Power Supply
CPU Cooling: Stock Intel Core i7 1366 CPU Fan
Operating System: Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit OEM SP1
Services: Warranty: Lifetime Labor, 1 Year Parts[/url]
Total: $3540.54
Click to expand...

So here the difference more like 15%.

Anyway, this is not to argue with you --- we both agree that Puget charges significantly more than MainGear for a similarly configured system.

Edit: Just to add a couple more data points, whatever they mean, here's a Cyberpower system (I didn't consider buying from them myself) configured as close as I could get to the more expensive Maingear and Puget system:

Cyberpower

CASE: SilverStone/Raven RV01B-W Black Color Full Tower
POWER SUPPLY: 1, 000 Watts Power Supplies (Corsair CMPSU-1000HX - Quad SLI Ready)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-920 2.66 GHz 8M L3 Cache LGA1366
COOLING FAN : Intel LGA1366 Certified CPU Fan & Heatsink
MOTHERBOARD: Asus P6T Deluxe Intel X58 Chipset
MEMORY: 6GB (2GBx3) DDR3/1800MHz Triple Channel Memory Module (Corsair or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon HD 4870 PCI-E 16X 1GB DDR5 Video Card (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
HARD DRIVE: 300GB Gaming Western Digital VelociRaptor 10, 000RPM
Data Hard Drive: 320GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive
Optical Drive: LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
KEYBOARD: Logitech Deluxe 250 USB Keyboard (Black Color)
MOUSE: XtremeGear Optical USB 3 Buttons Gaming Mouse
OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate w/ Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition)
SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
Total: $2240
Click to expand...

And here's what the parts cost from Newegg for the system I actually bought from Puget (since Puget gives you the part numbers it's very easy to compare):

Newegg

Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner: $24.99
Antec P182 Mid Tower Computer Case: $169.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB Hard Drive: $74.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380815AS 80GB Hard Drive: $34.99
CORSAIR CMPSU-1000HX Power Supply: $269.99
3 x Kingston ValueRAM 2GB: $176.97 ($58.99 each)
ASUS Radeon HD 4870 1GB: $289.99 (out of stock)
ASUS P6T Deluxe LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard: $284.99
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 Processor: $294.99
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit for System Builders: $179.99
Subtotal: $1,701.88
Click to expand...

Price of this system from Puget: $3032.84 (i.e. Parts + $1330.96)

Then I added:

Case Window: $65.03
Puget Hydro CL1 Liquid Cooling System 1366 (Asetek): $67.46
Case fans upgrade kit (quiet): $65.49
Puget total: $3230.82

I couldn't find the Antec P182 with a window on Newegg, seems like some addition cooling is probably a good idea for the i7's, and while the case fans may not be necessary, I'm concerned to have a quiet system.
 
Quiet is what we specialize in.

Regarding pricing, I will say up front that I'm not even remotely involved in that process. I can get you in touch with Puget's President, Jon Bach, who can answer any of your questions on that front. Just PM me with your contact information.

Each company really has different ways of calculating what the product+labor+support is really worth on a system. Puget, for instance, does lifetime labor on all of our systems after the parts warranty expires--something that can provide our customers with many hundreds of dollars of savings in the long term. Overclocking systems can push up the pricing, as can special configurations, because testing and QA takes longer.

I'm being intentionally generic. There are so many small things that individual companies do during the building process, and in the support process, that are factored in to the price of each system because they take time. It's usually not represented as a fixed cost--like extended warranties are--but it's reflected in prices of components as part of an overall cost of build. There's no set formula. Because of that, you're going to see that part prices will always be inconsistent across manufacturers, and they will almost NEVER be the same price as retail unless demand has dropped through the floor. You'll also find that larger companies can charge less for systems because of bulk pricing on parts and the ability to standardize operations--small companies can't complete with that.

Each company has different ways of figuring out how to price the final product, so I would encourage that you talk with each company and get an idea of why they charge more/less for some things and not for others. Most, in my experience, won't mind the question--and the way the company answers will tell you exactly what kind of company you're dealing with. :)

I've given myself a headache...I hope I didn't confuse anyone. I might have confused myself. :D
 
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