Vr pc purchase vs upgrade help needed.

Discussion in 'VR & Head-Mounted Displays' started by LKilmister, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Hey,

    I need help with either upgrading a build I have, or purchasing a new pc... or maybe a whole new build that will run VR. I found this PC that also has a bundle version that includes the Oculus headset on amazon https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC...d=1487097560&sr=1-2&keywords=vr+ready+desktop. for $720. There is also a bundled version of it with the Oculus headset for just over $1300. .. I don't want to spend that much, but no matter which way I go I will also need to purchase a VR headset.

    So I can't see much way of avoiding that other than using the parts listed below and upgrading where needed. Any suggestions on upgrading the processor, ram, GPU, and PSU? I'd like to stay as low as possible and still have a good set up.

    Hopefully my ram, and processor will be fine, but I know the GPU will need to be upgraded and I will need a new PSU and maybe dvd burner.

    Intel Core i5 3470
    MSI B75MA-P45
    Need a dvd burner.
    NZXT Source 210 Elite case.
    I need a PSU for this pc...
    (Monitor is pending.)
    500gb EVO SSD
    1tb wd HDD
    1tb external HDD
    500gb external hdd
    Mushkin Enhanced STEALTH 16GB (2 x 8GB)
    EVGA GTX 960 4gb ssc acx 2.0+ graphics card.

    Sorry for the lengthy post, but I want to get into VR as cheaply as possible while still having a good experience. I've only experienced google cardboard and other phone driven headsets on display.

    I'm just looking for any helpful advice/tips/ideas, nothing is set in stone for me other than price and even that has a little wiggle room.

    Thanks for any and all options you can give me.
     
  2. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    I would try upgrading to a GTX 1080 in the system you have first, and see if it actually struggles with the VR games you want to play. I suspect it probably will struggle, but it's worth a shot.

    If you end up needing a new CPU, and can't wait a few weeks for availability of Ryzen CPUs, here's what I'd do.

    https://pchound.com/XCGjVY/

    You can play around with brands or look for deals if you don't like the ones I picked, but that's about $1150, for a core setup that will definitely provide a good VR experience. Just reuse all your older drives and stuff, unless you feel like buying fancy new ones (for instance, an m.2 ssd).

    You'll obviously also need the VR headset. The games you intend to play will inform which one is better for you. The Rift is better, IMHO, for cockpit games like Project CARS and Elite Dangerous, whereas the Vive has a much better room scale experience.
     
  3. TheSmJ

    TheSmJ 2[H]4U

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    Wait for Kyle's Sandy Bridge/Kaby Lake VR comparison article before spending the dough on a new platform.
     
  4. ssnyder28

    ssnyder28 2[H]4U

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    I think you only need a better graphics card. 1070 minimum. Even if you buy just a graphics card and aren't satisfied with the performance from your other parts, you could always upgrade later.
     
  5. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Hey everyone, Thanks for the feedback so far!! Razorwind I can wait for the new CPUs...didn't even know they were a thing. Also I already have Cars and all the DLC got it in the humble bundle pack. TheSMj I will look for that article, but I'm not gonna lie who's Kyle and how would I find his article? SSnyder2b I'm thinking along those lines as well. I want to do this as cheaply as possible, but I don't want a broken set up. Cars is going to be for me, and whatever else I can find.

    But, I would also like to run just about any vr experience I can on it, for my father who is elderly because I hear VR systems can be helpful for older people. I would think those would be low end on the requirements. The 1070 is do able right now with the build I have, but should I get the 750W PSU that Razorwind suggested if I only get the GPU? And what about the Radeon R9 480?

    Would this GPU work?
    https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce...7115980&sr=1-1&keywords=EVGA+GeForce+GTX+1070
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  6. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would also go for the 1070 or 1080. My 980ti plays everything fine which is equal to about a 1070. Just try it on your current system, might actually played pretty good.
     
  7. SBSuperfly

    SBSuperfly Gawd

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    I agree with just adding the 1070. My rig is much older than yours. I have an old socket 1366 1st gen i7 Xeon w3690 and 12gb ram and it runs VR perfectly adequately with a 1070. Early adoption of i7 was the best computer purchase I've ever made. I haven't had a compelling reason for a new build because this one handles everything I can throw at it. VR actually ran decently well with the 970 I had before upgrading to a 1070.
     
  8. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Will the one I posted work? And what about a PSU and should I upgrade my ram?

    Thanks!
     
  9. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    It depends which VR games you want to play. Most of them are not that demanding that are made solely for VR. Check out H's reviews...

    Your parts list, is that already bought?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  10. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Yeah the parts list are things I've owned for a while, but my PSU needs to be replaced so I didn't list it because I will likely need a new one with any sort of upgrade. So the parts list is already a working PC with windows 7, but I'm considering purchasing windows 10...I should not have passed up on it for free, but I messed up and it will cost me.
     
  11. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

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    I agree with the other posters, do the video card first and try your system out. I would guess you won't need to upgrade your system at all after you upgrade the video card. Win 7 is perfectly fine in VR for all my VR games, you don't need Win 10 (I did the free upgrade on the last day of free upgrade and I haven't even booted into it since the one week I tried using it). There are like 2 applications that require win 10 on Steam both are desktop environments, but other than that all the games I have bought work in Win 7. It's an unnecessary expense to buy it unless you really want to use Win 10.
     
  12. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your 16gb ram is good. All you need is a PSU.
     
  13. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would just buy a 400W+ PSU (I personally like 500W) of a good brand like EVGA. You actually meet the minimum specs & your CPU surpasses them. You could always buy the headset and see how it does.

    I do agree with the others, just buy a good gfx card and call it a day. A 1070 would let you crank up the AA which helps a lot.
     
  14. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Thanks again everyone, I ran the Steam compatibility test and it said my i5 3470 3.2GHZ does not meet the minimum requirements of i5 4590. Should I worry about that at all? If not I will purchase the GPU I have listed in my earlier post and get a PSU.
     
  15. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    Since you will need a new PSU and video card, best to try that CPU first.
     
  16. buttons

    buttons [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have an oculus and have used it on low end systems.

    Its usable assuming you have a good video card. your goal of course is to maintain 90fps which is actually harder then it sounds. A few games are well optimized and I had no trouble even with a stock clocked AMD 860k at 3.8ghz, 8gb of ram and an AMD R9 390 -- basically a $400 computer. Your CPU is much better then this, and if you throw in a GeForce 1070 you will be a good step ahead of my r9 390 as well.

    I tried a few games on r9 380x some of the simple tutorials / demos played well, but most of the actual games had visible stutter.
     
  17. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Thanks buttons, I'm feeling good about my chances of running it with just a GPU update. But let me ask this, the R9 480 is supposed to be better than my current GPU. Would that work? Is there any reason to get the 1070 instead other than a bigger boost? Okay that is a silly question I guess, but let me put it this way. Is there any justification to spending the extra money for the 1070 if the R9 480 will work? I know it is a better card and will likely be better in the long run, but just making sure I'm getting the most bang for the buck without throwing extra money at it.

    Thanks again for all the help everyone, nearly ready to commit to the 1070.
     
  18. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

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    Go to the main VR section here and read the reviews. There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the 480 cards when it comes to VR. The amount you will save will not be worth the issues you will have IMHO.
     
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  19. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    Short answer: Yes, an RX480 would technically work.

    Long answer: The RX480 just barely meets the minimum spec that Oculus and HTC recommend for use with their VR headsets, and HardOCP's testing has shown that it is even weaker in VR, as compared to nVidia's current generation cards, than a comparison based on theoretical performance would suggest. As such, until AMD figures this out, you're much better off with an nVidia product.

    Speaking from my own experience, a GTX 1080 works great. I hear the 1070 works pretty well, too, and if you're budget constrained, is probably what you should go with.
     
  20. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Cool i'm looking for a deal on the 1070 now. I have another question ... well two more. My case seems to only have 1 usb 3.0 connector is that okay?, if not can I add another to my current set up? And as far as my CPU If I can manager to squeeze in an upgrade for it, what would be the next step up that will work with my current set up? What would be the best I could get? And is it really worth the purchase for either? Okay more than two questions

    Thanks again everyone!
     
  21. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    You should have a couple more USB 3 connectors on the motherboard itself, at the back of the case. I'm not sure how many are required for the Vive, but the Oculus Rift requires two - one for the headset itself and another for the tracking sensor. If you intend to use the touch controllers, you'll need at least one more (total of three). You could conceivably use a USB 3 hub to add more ports, although throughput may be less than ideal that way. I have not tried this with my Rift, since my motherboard has a gazillion ports on it. The best way to add additional ports is with a PCI-Express add-on card, but because your motherboard appears to only have a single X1 slot, you probably won't be able to find a suitable card. Most of them need an X4 slot.

    The fastest CPU that will just drop right into your motherboard is an i7-3770. There is a K version of this that is overclockable, but your motherboard would not be able to take advantage of this feature.
     
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  22. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    RazorWind, Thanks for the info. I'll have to check the back casing, but I think I only have 1 usb 3.0. I will likely get the controllers down the road a bit. But, I did look for the i7-3770 and I found a few different ones it looks like I can get a 3.4GHZ version for just under $200 used on ebay. But, there is also one that advertises as an Ivory bridge, which I think is what my current set up is.

    Do I need to get one that specifies Ivory Bridge? The 1070 shopping is going slowly I see such a large price range on them it is making me wonder if I'm just seeing price gougers, or I'm missing something.
     
  23. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    Yes, you want an Ivy Bridge cpu. Frankly, I wouldn't bother unless you can get a good deal on an i7-3770. If you can get one for like $100 to $150, that might be worth it. Maybe.

    $200 seems awfully steep. At that price, you're really better off saving up a little more, and upgrading to a Kaby Lake i5.
     
  24. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

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    The Vive only uses 1 USB port and I have used it fine with either 2.0 or 3.0 ports with no issues. As far as CPUs go I would 100% wait for the reviews of the new AMD Ryzen chips to come out at this stage. I don't know if you want to wait for it, but given that it's coming out next month I'd definitely recommend waiting just to give you more possible options.

    Edit: Hmm ignore that last bit if you were only thinking about dropping in a new CPU into you current motherboard.
     
  25. buttons

    buttons [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have 6 RX 480 4gb, and in crossfire they have plenty of horsepower. Most games however does not support crossfire -- and a single RX 480 has struggled with some titles like project cars or ark survival (ark survival is not optmized well at all). It depends on what you are doing, Eve valkerie plays fine, luckys tail , and other demo / tutorials ran good. War thunder was also good... Project cars though does not run fluently on any AMD card and it was one of the top titles for me. If your going to buy an AMD card, id get the Sapphire Fury nitro. Its the fastest AMD card for the price $239 after rebate -- price jumps between 239-259 -- i picked one up, but sold off all my gaming computers while waiting for Ryzen -- so didnt get to do much with it, i think i was CPU limited anyway though, low clock speed 8320e

    I am setting up a custom computer for my employer tomorrow. I5-7500, maybe ill throw my fury in it and test the oculus.
     
  26. Omegas

    Omegas [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You don't list your PSU at all. 1070's are not exactly power hogs plus you're not OC'ing the i5 so you may be fine with what you have. Please list it. If it's fine then grab the cheapest 1070 that will work with your case and you should be golden.

    I have a laptop with an i7 6700hq and 1060, it does quite well with everything I've thrown at my Vive so your desktop i5 with an 1070 will do wonderfully.
     
  27. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Sorry, the PSU is antec I believe 650W. I'll double check if you like. I have already gotten the 1070 and the rift with touch bundle from best buy.

    Now I am wondering what I should get with the $150 credit from best buy, I thought about a 27" monitor, but feels like a waste because I am using VR and my current monitor is fine. And yes my set up is running VR without any issues except for the sculpting program (name escapes me at the moment) But, I think the issue was because I was turning my back to the sensor and walking outside of the play area. Seemed like durning a sculpt the touch didn't respond well for a bit. It was great at first, but then lagged up a bit. After exiting and re entering it was fine.

    I considered getting windows 10, or maybe just an android tablet. Unless I can find a nice SSD or something that would help me out.

    Thanks again to everyone for helping me out with this.
     
  28. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    If you don't have an SSD, it will improve the experience of using the system tremendously. It won't make the system that much better for VR use specifically, but most tasks eventually see a benefit from it.

    Windows 10 may eventually be a must-have as well, as software moves toward DirectX 12, but if you're still running Windows 8, I wouldn't worry about it. I liked Windows 8 better, if I'm honest.

    Edit: Regarding the tracking issues, depending on how you have your USB devices connected, you may be saturating the USB bus. You might try using different ports, if your motherboard has more than one USB 3 controller.
     
  29. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    For bleeding edge PC gaming Windows 10 is going to be your best bet because support is guaranteed. While 8.1 and 7 for the near future will be supported overwhelmingly in VR there will be exceptions and as more time passes the exceptions will be more common
     
  30. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    So far it's been barely a pinprick much less bleeding...
    :)
    The only reason is because Microsoft made it that way. If you can't win people over by the product, you can just force them too evwntually. Sad....
     
  31. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Razor, I do have a SSD, but when I installed it I didn't feel much improvement. I believe there is a bios setting that I need to correct to see the difference (AHCI ). But, I've been told I'd need to do a fresh windows install for that. I have windows 7, not 8 so I've considered windows 10. I don't think a monitor will do me much good. I've got a 2 TB WD blue HDD on the way that I will use to store stuff on and keep the OS on the SSD. I am considering windows 10 because some games require windows 8.1 or 10. Most seem to work with 7.

    Maybe my OS and how I have the SSD set up is holding back my PC's performance a bit?
     
  32. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    Yes, you need to change the SATA controllers to AHCI mode if you have them in ATA mode now for some reason. You'll realistically need to reinstall windows after that, so I'd probably upgrade to Win10; get the hassle of reinstalling out of the way all at once.

    You won't see higher framerates after this, but you'll likely notice that the system seems a lot faster doing most other things.
     
  33. LKilmister

    LKilmister n00b

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    Cool, and sorry I totally skipped over the USB point you made earlier. I DO have 3 USB 3.0 ports I thought I only had the one in front. I also found the source of the laggy performance/lock up. I had the Oculus app running, Steam and Steam VR running, and three browsers with tabs... one browser firefox... had 8 tabs up. A combination of facebook games amazon, ebay, email and others. So I was unintentionally bogging down the system a bit.

    Closing out steam and Steam VR seemed to take care of it even with the browsers going. Windows 10 seems the way to go because I will need to reinstall anyway might as well knock it all down at once.

    Thanks for all the feedback and help everyone.heatlessun, Hagrid I didn't mean to skip responding to you The windows conversation was meant to be all encompassing. :)
     
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  34. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    All I was saying is that Windows 10 pretty much guarantees all options for PC gaming going forward. If there is that DX 12 only game or one that performs better under DX 12 like Sniper Elite 4 or that VR title (there are some out there that require at least 8.1, a few 10) or that new AR headset or whatever.
     
  35. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Let's spare the MS propaganda. It'll be years before DX12 actually matters. There's no specific need for Windows 10 for OP's purpose, gaming or VR.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  36. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    That's not true. If you look at the system requirements for VR titles on Steam, some of them now list Windows 10 as required and more than that list 10 as recommended. I've not and test everyone of these to see if that's actually the case, but from this point forward, if one wants to be able to play any game, traditional, VR or even AR which is coming, it's pretty much guaranteed to be Windows 10 compatible. And while the overwhelming majority of games coming out for the foreseeable future will be 7 and 8.x compatible, it's not a given that all titles will and some may benefit from DX 12 such as Sniper Elite 4 released just last week.

    Don't make something common sense into something about propaganda. We've been down this road with Windows before. 10 is where Windows is headed, 7 is simply getting old and 8.x never gained much traction. I one doesn't like 10 I get that but in the context of PC gaming with support for everything, all of the latest and greatest, 10 is the only option.
     
  37. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardness Supreme

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    And I bet that they made it for play on Windows 7 or 8 it would play just fine.
    Its either full dx12 and not backwards compatible or Microsoft paid them off.
    So they lose money on sales.
     
  38. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    I seriously doubt that Microsoft is paying small indie VR developers to make their games Windows 10 only. Honestly I have no idea why some of these titles are listing 8.1 or 10 as required accept a few, like Virtual Desktop that requires DX 11.1 something or another that's 8.1 and up. In any case, one can make up whatever theories they want. I'm guessing the overwhelming majority of PC VR folks are using 10, like in the 80 or 90 percent range. And while that's some lost sales, that's also easier support and development, just one OS to deal with.