Vista to be discontinued in 2008?

[DeaconFrost]

As it always does....

You say that it was a problem with the package manager... Or at least you vaguely seem to suggest that without saying so..... You provide no evidence what the problem was, or the steps taken to correct them. It's like one of my users calling me telling me that there program crashed, so I remote control, and find out that it works perfect. They just didnt know what they were doing.

If you want me to leave the vague assumptions on the side then please feel free to do the same. Your not special. Your not better. Now that we've got that outta the way....

If you can explain to me why you think the package manager has problems, and why MS software distribution model is better, then please feel free to contribute.

First, my comments about my title where to cast aside your degrading views. Never did I say I was better or more knowledgeable than you, but do heed your own advice as well. don't assume you're better or more special than others either.

Secondly, I'm not posting details of my Linux problem because I'm not currently concerned about solving it, nor is this thread about Linux or fixing Linux problems. When I'm ready to work on my Linux box and it's problems again, you'll see me posting them in the Linux subforum.

Again, you make a wild assumption that I am bashing the package manager, instead of reading what I actually wrote about it. Now, in true biased form, you're assuming I am behind some Ms package manager, but no where, now where, was anything mentioned in my posts about anything MS has to compare. You aren't going to win an argument by putting words in someone else's mouth and then calling them on it.

When you're ready to stop being biased and closed minded, and even take the time to read others comments before firing back at them, I'd be happy to pick this up.

 

[zacdl]

uses RECYCLED CODE from god knows when

It uses the same NT kernel- as any person that knows basic Vista should understand this.

Linux is my internet OS of choice as I don't have to screw around with spending more time on security apps instead of actually using it.

You install decent AV, 10 minutes. Big deal. I still fail to understand any argument in this, other than laziness.

Bam I have to wait like 30-40 seconds for it to come up for no particular reason.

There ARE reasons for that... Before making such statements, you should take some time to know what you are talking about.

Only for a very short period. After a few months of positive reports about XP most people jumped on it. I don't see that happening with Vista at all. Vista only has about 3% of the current market share.

Granted- but as quoted before- this is due to Microsoft's huge success with XP.
Vista is actually selling at DOUBLE the rate XP ever did... But Microsoft managed to push XP into so many homes that 3% just seems small.

The day that I can run DX10 on Linux legally and stably, is the day that I'll forgive MS for the way they treat there customers.

If Microsoft want's to mandate one of their products only runs on Windows- that is their choice.
There are TONS of apps that only run on Windows. There are also apps that only run on OSX.

Yet because DX was such a success, and your proclaimed "open source superior software" failed to produce anything better- it is the way things are.

OSS simply develops faster. Period. MS will not be able to keep pace for much longer. Survival of the fittest. If they arent capable of competing then thy --should-- die. And god willing that wont take too much longer.

Same "doom and gloom" that has been around for years...
Microsoft has been dying for years now, haven't they? We can all see how fast it has fallen, and that Bill Gates is just living in poverty now...

If what you say is true, why isn't Linux as user-friendly as Windows? Wouldn't Linux have more software available, more games available, more drivers available for hardware than Windows?

IF what he said were true, yes.
IF what he said were true, there would be a heck of alot more people running *free* OS.
Fact of the matter is, people would rather pay for an OS that is easy to use. *nix is simply not ready yet.

So, imo, Vista = OS SECURITY. Hopefully, the next OS will focus on an improved file system, a replacement to the woefully outdated registry, and other(?) features.

I think you are right.
I think it goes further than implementing security and UAC.
I think it is starting to get software and hardware companies used (nay- FORCED) to write some decent drivers, offer 64 bit availibility, and write software that doesn't need access to the system anymore.

1) User-friendly is when it's available to the masses to use and understand. When my in-laws and grandmother's could use it, then it's user-friendly.

1: been there done that almost 10 years now...

I won't expect an honest answer on this... but how much time have you spent training her to run it? How much time have you spent working on compatibility? I know Ubuntu is pretty good about these things, but dagum there is still times when you must use command line. People don't like the command line.

You provide no evidence what the problem was, or the steps taken to correct them.

How ironic...

It's like one of my users calling me telling me that there program crashed, so I remote control, and find out that it works perfect. They just didnt know what they were doing.

Sounds like you with all your Vista "problems"...

 

[BladeVenom]

Hopefully, the next OS will focus on an improved file system...

That's something they promised Vista would have, but didn't deliver. I would much rather have an improved file system over some eye candy.

 

[feek]

There's no way that it'll happen. This was just a reaction to a dumb blog post by some guy on zdnet (I think one of the guests on the show) talking out of his ass about how he thinks they should pull it.
There's really nothing seriously wrong with Vista at this point. IMO the biggest problem is simply UAC's implementation. There's no reason for them to pull it.

I nearly turned off TWiT this week during that segment. Sometimes those guys are such apple fanboys it is sickening. I mean, later in that same episode they were essentially giving apple a pass for bricking modified iphones.

 

[SamuraiInBlack]

To be honest, I'm going to wait until after Service Pack 1's release. I say this, because Vista by all the bells and whistles that have been presented, are things that I'm currently living without, so I don't think I honestly need them. The only reason why I would be moving to Vista at all is to keep an operating system that's still supported by Microsoft. That, and I figure by the time SP1's release comes around, a lot of the genuine issues that people have reported, will have been fixed by then, either by better drivers, or by just better software support all around. But even with that, I know i'm going to keep my XP stuff around for the purpose of having something that I know is working without issues.

 

[SamuraiInBlack]

That's something they promised Vista would have, but didn't deliver. I would much rather have an improved file system over some eye candy.

QFT

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I used to run linux on my laptop, until X randomly corrupted itself and I went back to Windows for stability. Was great for awhile, had document writing tools, web browsing, music libraries, instant messengers. I was all set, everything I needed for basic laptop mobile needs. Linux is still too limited.

hahahahhahaha, you went back to windows for reliability, thanks for the laugh. BTW X does not corrupt it self, either you tinkered and broke it, without backing up your xorg.conf, if you did backup you would be able to restore x in about 2 seconds, 2) you used a binary blob that you compiled, and broke x after a kernel upgrade, which is easy enough to fix, 3) you updated to a version that broke which again is easy enough to fix in about 2 seconds by rolling back to the previous version.

Good luck doing the same in windows, linux is too limited?? Your joking right, because linux is far more configurable then windows. Don't get me wrong I use, Windows, LInux, OS X, BSD, Plan 9, Solaris, I would of agreed if you had hardware support issues, but everything you said is just flat out wrong.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I won't expect an honest answer on this... but how much time have you spent training her to run it? How much time have you spent working on compatibility? I know Ubuntu is pretty good about these things, but dagum there is still times when you must use command line. People don't like the command line.

You know what when people use *nix systems, including osx, I encourage them to get friendly with the terminal. Hell cmd prompt with microsoft unix tools is great and some times just quicker then using a gui.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

If what you say is true, why isn't Linux as user-friendly as Windows? Wouldn't Linux have more software available, more games available, more drivers available for hardware than Windows? Open source software has plenty of drawbacks as well. Don't blame Microsoft 100% for market conditions, or else you'd be proving yourself to be blinded by bias.

This is based on perspective, my 70 yr old father, who in his current condition isn't all ways thinking correctly is able to use linux to surf the web, listen to music, and send emails. Compare that to my little brother who is a long time windows user, finds linux difficult at times. You see my point right that someone who has used windows for a long time will find linux more difficult compared to some one who is starting off fresh. It took me a while to get used to *nix OS.

 

[zacdl]

You know what when people use *nix systems, including osx, I encourage them to get friendly with the terminal. Hell cmd prompt with microsoft unix tools is great and some times just quicker then using a gui.

You lose sight of what we are talking about- the MASSES.
People don't (shouldn't) have to memorize commands to use a system. Period.

I agree- command line is faster for some things- I use it myself at times.
But I personally don't care to memorize hundreds/thousands of commands when there is a decent GUI availible that oftentimes gets me to where I need to go just as fast (if not faster). Don't even get started on syntax...

Once more- we are not talking about IT people here. We are talking about your common user. We are NOT talking about "they can learn". They don't want to learn. They shouldn't even need to learn something that can be accomplished through a GUI that uses point/click names for things, rather than commands...

IMO if Ubuntu (I use it as an example because I think it is the closest so far) gets to the point of having a GUI on par with Windows, it could be a viable alternative for a SYSTEM.
Read: System. After that, you still have the whole issue with applications, gaming, etc... and that would all come with time.

 

[rkf76]

My two pennies:

Vista is lovely! It installed the easiest of any OS ever, the look and feel of it is just as good. It takes some getting used to as far as navigation and doing certain tasks. ex: Adding and removing programs, but once you get used to it it's nothing.

My only gripe about Vista is that it can't play DVD's out of the box, you have to download an encoder to do so. Instead of doing that I just downloaded VLC Media Player since it was free and the encoders MS recommended were $15 and up, LOL. It would be nice though if they would build that into the OS, especially if the OS comes with Media Center.

 

[devman]

My two pennies:

Vista is lovely! It installed the easiest of any OS ever, the look and feel of it is just as good. It takes some getting used to as far as navigation and doing certain tasks. ex: Adding and removing programs, but once you get used to it it's nothing.

My only gripe about Vista is that it can't play DVD's out of the box, you have to download an encoder to do so. Instead of doing that I just downloaded VLC Media Player since it was free and the encoders MS recommended were $15 and up, LOL. It would be nice though if they would build that into the OS, especially if the OS comes with Media Center.

DVD playback worked right out of the box for me? I just yesterday installed home premium on a buddies computer and it worked there too.

There was a thread awhile back about someone not getting DVD playback from Vista, turned out to be a video driver problem.

 

[griffinhart]

There's no way that it'll happen. This was just a reaction to a dumb blog post by some guy on zdnet (I think one of the guests on the show) talking out of his ass about how he thinks they should pull it.
There's really nothing seriously wrong with Vista at this point. IMO the biggest problem is simply UAC's implementation. There's no reason for them to pull it.

I nearly turned off TWiT this week during that segment. Sometimes those guys are such apple fanboys it is sickening. I mean, later in that same episode they were essentially giving apple a pass for bricking modified iphones.

I agree, they already are a pretty mac-centric heavy group. It seemed to me that their biggest problem was with UAC and that even when pointed out Linux and OSX prompts users about as much the response was "but OSX's implimentation seems less annoying." Hardly a compelling reason for MS to drop Vista.

 

[griffinhart]

My two pennies:

Vista is lovely! It installed the easiest of any OS ever, the look and feel of it is just as good. It takes some getting used to as far as navigation and doing certain tasks. ex: Adding and removing programs, but once you get used to it it's nothing.

My only gripe about Vista is that it can't play DVD's out of the box, you have to download an encoder to do so. Instead of doing that I just downloaded VLC Media Player since it was free and the encoders MS recommended were $15 and up, LOL. It would be nice though if they would build that into the OS, especially if the OS comes with Media Center.

DVD codecs are out of the box in Vista unless you run Vista Basic (and maybe Business). I'm not sure about OEM versions of Vista.

 

[calebb]

I'd have to disagree. Vista has terrible performance compared to XP. Yea it has some "wow that looks cool" effects but for ease of use and overall application performance WinXP is superior. I've used both and Vista was worse than any nightmare I've ever had.

That's something they promised Vista would have, but didn't deliver. I would much rather have an improved file system over some eye candy.

Check out some of the other posts in this thread.

If I were to rank the top 10 improvements to Vista, I would put the eye candy at the end - #10.

I would put SuperFetch as #1.

Seriously, Photoshop CS3 took 25 seconds to load on my legacy P4 3 GHz Dell in XP... it takes 0.01 sec to load on the same system in Vista. Superfetch FTW!

 

[milkweg]

I'll turn the question back around. What is it about XP that's supposed to pull me back to it? What's your bias against Vista that I should ignore it and stick with an older OS?

I'm not trying to make you do anything. I just wanted to know why you think XP is a pain to use. I still don't see it either. Right now XP is a better gaming OS, from framerate in games, not having to put up with UAC, to overall game compatibility. It is just better at those tasks than Vista and that is why I use it. As I said, I use Linux for the internet so I don't have much use for Vista even though I have it. I could use Vista exclusively for digital photography but my copy if Photoshop won't even install on it because it doesn't recognize the OS. Runs perfectly fine on XP though so it should run fine on Vista too, if the installer recognized the OS.

 

[milkweg]

You install decent AV, 10 minutes. Big deal. I still fail to understand any argument in this, other than laziness.

You are forgetting all the multi layers of anti-spyware software you also need and scanning your PC frequently. Oh, and lets not forget the rootkit revealer, which most people can't fathom anyway. I don't have to bother with all that crap on Linux, and it's not because I'm lazy, I've just got better things to do with my time.

 

[markt435]

You are forgetting all the multi layers of anti-spyware software you also need and scanning your PC frequently. Oh, and lets not forget the rootkit revealer, which most people can't fathom anyway. I don't have to bother with all that crap on Linux, and it's not because I'm lazy, I've just got better things to do with my time.

wtf?

firewall for constant protection (any network needs this anyway)
avast anti-virus for constant protection
windows defender for constant protection
ad-aware or other choices for a weekly cleaning or maybe daily depending upon preferences.
if you'd like an extra layer you can use the noscript extension for firefox or make sure IE7 runs in protected mode with higher security settings.

thats all you need besides common sense to not visit shitty sites

so many layers using all my memory up!!! OH NOES

EDIT:

sure my processes could be tweaked a bit but i haven't taken the time to really fix things up. this install is a few weeks old...though its a 160gb drive and is now half full. i'd say thats pretty good and the fact it boots up in 20-25 seconds ain't bad either. you can see my layers of protection don't use up much memory at all. is it that much of a detriment to have a few layers of security? no its not. seriously, with the products that are out now and are FREE, its not a big deal anymore. people need to stop whining about how "zomg windows has so much spyware and viruses." really? i haven't had one for years, and if i got infected, avast has caught it the moment i got it and taken care of the problem. same goes with all the other crap and it just gets cleaned out when i do my weekly cleaning and defrag (not so much defrag since vista takes care of itself).

 

[As I Lay Dying]

You lose sight of what we are talking about- the MASSES.
People don't (shouldn't) have to memorize commands to use a system. Period.

I agree- command line is faster for some things- I use it myself at times.
But I personally don't care to memorize hundreds/thousands of commands when there is a decent GUI availible that oftentimes gets me to where I need to go just as fast (if not faster). Don't even get started on syntax...

Once more- we are not talking about IT people here. We are talking about your common user. We are NOT talking about "they can learn". They don't want to learn. They shouldn't even need to learn something that can be accomplished through a GUI that uses point/click names for things, rather than commands...

IMO if Ubuntu (I use it as an example because I think it is the closest so far) gets to the point of having a GUI on par with Windows, it could be a viable alternative for a SYSTEM.
Read: System. After that, you still have the whole issue with applications, gaming, etc... and that would all come with time.

can I ask where in ubuntu the gui fails for the average user and needs them to use command line?

 

[zacdl]

With a 2 second search on the Ubuntu forums, found this page:
https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/linux_8.40.4-inst.html

Drivers is the main area I seem to remember...

Doing a brief little more search, even such things as screen issues require using it: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixVideoResolutionHowto

Just a couple of examples that I found with almost 0 effort...

 

[duby229]

Good thing for it too... I cant even imagine the nightmare it would be trying to configure the x server in a GUI... What kind of hell would that be? Just think , how would you fix it if the xserver died, and you didnt have access to the gui? it gives me shivers to think about it. That's a chilly thought.

Some things, (most things) are better off doing on the command line.

 

[DeaconFrost]

Some things, (most things) are better off doing on the command line.

There's one thing we can agree on, regardless of the OS in question, CLI sometimes is best.

DVD codecs are out of the box in Vista unless you run Vista Basic (and maybe Business). I'm not sure about OEM versions of Vista.

To the best of my knowledge, the type of license doesn't come into play. Home Premium and Ultimate come with a decoder built in, retail, OEM, etc.

 

[duby229]

There's one thing we can agree on, regardless of the OS in question, CLI sometimes is best.

To the best of my knowledge, the type of license doesn't come into play. Home Premium and Ultimate come with a decoder built in, retail, OEM, etc.

Amen brother Though I do very much enjoy pretty GUI's too.

 

[LstBrunnenG]

Yes, but if you're trying to target the Windows audience, you have to make things as easy as they are in Windows. My mom changes the resolution on her notebook all the time to make it easier on her eyes. I think having to resort to the CLI and an X restart every time she wanted to do that would be a deal-breaker for her. The simple fact is that you don't have to restart explorer and all of your GUI programs just to change the resolution.

I don't think anyone is advocating the elimination of the conf file, but there should be a GUI way to change some of those settings for those that aren't well versed in the CLI.

This thread has been dragged far off-topic, however. An off-hand remark by Duby has snowballed into yet another huge Linux vs. Windows debate. This thread is supposed to be about Vista's supposed discontinuation, not a debate over whether the demise of all closed-source software would be a good thing.

I'm still waiting for an answer from the OP.

 

[jaegertech]

Vista Home Premium installed here and I like it. I've run into a few bugs, though those are due to third party devs more often than not (MoH:Airborne demo crapping out because of UAC, for example). In two months, I've only had a handful of crashes split between running beta/buggy software and overclocking. Vista has yet to just shit itself out of the blue.

All that said, the most impressive part of Vista so far has been the setup. Sweet jeebus... Is there anything Vista won't get itself running on with minimal user input? Simplest raid installation I've experienced to date.

 

[duby229]

Yes, but if you're trying to target the Windows audience, you have to make things as easy as they are in Windows. My mom changes the resolution on her notebook all the time to make it easier on her eyes. I think having to resort to the CLI and an X restart every time she wanted to do that would be a deal-breaker for her. The simple fact is that you don't have to restart explorer and all of your GUI programs just to change the resolution.

I don't think anyone is advocating the elimination of the conf file, but there should be a GUI way to change some of those settings for those that aren't well versed in the CLI.

This thread has been dragged far off-topic, however. An off-hand remark by Duby has snowballed into yet another huge Linux vs. Windows debate. This thread is supposed to be about Vista's supposed discontinuation, not a debate over whether the demise of all closed-source software would be a good thing.

I'm still waiting for an answer from the OP.

if all she is doing is changing the resolution or the refresh rate, then that can easily be done on the keyboard or one of many GUI's available. However, if X dies, she's not gonna be fixing it. She'll be taking it to her local Linux Guru.... And in that case he better have the tools he needs. Fortunately that will probably be text based.

Gui's do in fact exist. The question is whether or not your grandma should be messing with it. Since she shouldnt be mucking around with the x config, and it is --far-- easier to maintain on the command line. Why would anybody want to use a GUI?

And no this is --not-- a Windows vs Linux debate. If you make it that way, then that is on your shoulders. The argument was made that Vista would be discontinued. What alternatives are there? XP, and mostly Linux. Fact. If your unwilling to have a discussion based on technical merits, then please stop driving this conversation off topic.

 

[duby229]

Vista Home Premium installed here and I like it. I've run into a few bugs, though those are due to third party devs more often than not (MoH:Airborne demo crapping out because of UAC, for example). In two months, I've only had a handful of crashes split between running beta/buggy software and overclocking. Vista has yet to just shit itself out of the blue.

Notice the key term "because of UAC" That is entirely 100% in every way MS fault. Lets all put the blame squarely where it belongs.

All that said, the most impressive part of Vista so far has been the setup. Sweet jeebus... Is there anything Vista won't get itself running on with minimal user input? Simplest raid installation I've experienced to date.

Are you kidding? Was this meant to be satire? hhhmmmm.... What doesnt Vista run on??? That is a very long list.

 

[Menelmarar]

Notice the key term "because of UAC" That is entirely 100% in every way MS fault. Lets all put the blame squarely where it belongs.

Are you kidding? Was this meant to be satire? hhhmmmm.... What doesnt Vista run on??? That is a very long list.

And this is where your fanboyism and ignorance shines.

UAC is triggered when admin privileges are required, most distros of Linux do this as well. There is no reason whatsoever for MoH or any game to need admin privileges. As the previous poster acknowledged, this is CLEARLY a third party developer issue.

I'm not sure what your referring to, but Vista has far greater support and compatibility than Linux does on consumer oriented desktop systems. You go through all the generic hardware on newegg and you will find that the drivers are already built into windows for products using standard chipsets, or windows drivers included. A much smaller percentage have linux drivers. Not to mention full 3D acceleration support for ATI and nVidia graphics cards, or full support for creative sound cards. You need to lay down the pipe.

 

[Met-AL]

Maybe that is the reason why Linux gurus want the world to run on Linux, so that they would actually have a purpose in life and be able to make money.

I was talking to a friend who has been doing IT work for many years in datacenters. He was saying when he first got into the field, there were teams of IT techs working the datacenters, now he sits soley by himself each night. So much of the tasks he and his teammates used to do are automated nowdays by software and Windows server OSes and people just aren't needed.

Linux = cheap inkjet printer

Linux Guru = expensive injet cartridges for your cheap inkjet printer

 

[cyclone3d]

So disable UAC.... It's very easy to do.. not a "hidden" setting at all.

I'm running Vista Business x64, and it is noticeably more responsive than the 32-bit version.

I had the 32-bit version on my system for one day.. then decided to try the 64-bit version.

True the 64-bit version has the annoying required signed drivers thing which is not permantly bypassable since the last round of updates, but it works fine and faster than XP on my system.

The 32-bit version works fine also.. just not quite as responsive.

I am much more impressed with Vista after only being out this long than I was when XP had only been out the same amount of time.

And let's not even get into ME... or 95.

 

[SuperSubZero]

I'm still waiting for an answer from the OP.

It was a troll post that unfortunately got quite a bite. The OP must be having a field day with this.

Vista has issues, sure, but I really don't understand why everyone hates it so much. The sheer concentrated effort to flame Vista is just amazing.

 

[Met-AL]

So disable UAC.... It's very easy to do.. not a "hidden" setting at all.

But do you really want to do that? Why not just go all the way and use the administrator account for your day to day usage instead?

 

[-Sean Casey]

(Before I start I must admit to only reading the first 4-5 posts)

Vista != ME.

I liked Vista when I first stared using it personally during Beta 2. At release I switch my entire home to Vista. Smooth sailing. I am willing to give up 5-10 FPS in most games, but I have not noticed any difference in playing my games (I admit that I do not ever look at an FPS meter, if it runs smooth to me then that is what counts).

At work about 50% of our Windows machines are running Vista. Vista really shines in a Windows domain environment. Better fast user switching, UAC works very well in a domain environment, a bunch of other minor things that work much better than XP. No show stopping reliability issues have been found.

As far as UAC prompts are concerned, OS X prompts with probably even more frequency than Vista, and at least Vista indicates (the sheild icon) that the task will require a UAC prompt.

In my work place we run Windows, OS X and Solaris. Windows installs and users out number OS X and Solaris each 5-1. As far as helpdesk tickets OS X in our place out numbers Windows 3-1. I can say that Solaris is rock solid and we almost never have a helpdesk ticket for those machines.

 

[duby229]

And this is where your fanboyism and ignorance shines.

UAC is triggered when admin privileges are required, most distros of Linux do this as well. There is no reason whatsoever for MoH or any game to need admin privileges. As the previous poster acknowledged, this is CLEARLY a third party developer issue.

I'm not sure what your referring to, but Vista has far greater support and compatibility than Linux does on consumer oriented desktop systems. You go through all the generic hardware on newegg and you will find that the drivers are already built into windows for products using standard chipsets, or windows drivers included. A much smaller percentage have linux drivers. Not to mention full 3D acceleration support for ATI and nVidia graphics cards, or full support for creative sound cards. You need to lay down the pipe.

Dude if you honestly believe that Linux has anything like UAC you are sadly mistaken. Besides it is CLEARLY a problem with Vista becouse that same program runs on XP just fine. If Vista cant even run --Windows-- programs.... If it --cant operate the system-- then it sucks as an "operating system"

Additionally, Linux has WWWWAAAAAAYYYYYYY better out of the box driver support then Windows. Sure Windows definately has better third party driver support. No question about it. However how many third party drivers have you had fuck up on you lately? Do you really want third party drivers? I know I certainly dont.

Not to mention that you talk about ATi, nVidia, and Creative problems on Linux, but fail to mention that that they all have the same or worse problems on Vista. ATi's drivers are not terribly easy to configure, but they work well, if a little slow. nVidia's drivers work flawlessly easy to install, and fast. And well, when has creative ever had decent drivers on any OS?

And that is where your fanboyism and ignorance shines. I never said that Linux was perfect. It may net be better then Vista across the board. And there is a valid argument that can be made that says Linux is still about two years behind Vista in many respects. However you dont put blame where it belongs, and you dont put credit where it belongs.

The next time you boot Vista up on your PDA, or GameCube, or PPC, or SparcStation then you can say that Vista has better hardware support. Until then your making a claim that you cant support with facts. Also you fail to realize that Linux distributes drivers different then Windows. Windows --needs-- third party drivers becouse the native drivers only offer partial support, or none at all. Take graphics drivers for example.... No OpenGL.... You need a third party driver. Take WiFi drivers.... No WPA support.... You need third party drivers. Linux doesnt work that way. Device drivers are distributed with the Kernel as a functional part of it. Device drivers are entirely Kernel bound.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

The main reason I can see businesses having a problem with vista is probably due to the fact that their IT personelle are not trained for it, and people hate change, instead of exploring the OS and saying oh man this is great! they say oh man i don't want to re-learn this! another one is that alot of Companies have software developped for them, and they usually have it done for a specific OS, IE, i know alot of companies that still use win 98 because xp won't run their software, and software is $$!


and for the whole linux vs windows debate, it shouldn't even be had. yea linux is getting better but I don't think its ready to replace windows as the average joes desktop OS. (though ubuntu is painfuly easy to use for basic stuff and all of the free software can't hurt)

 

[griffinhart]

Notice the key term "because of UAC" That is entirely 100% in every way MS fault. Lets all put the blame squarely where it belongs.

Actually, no. Even in the TWIT podcast Steve Gibson noted that it's quite easy for a software dev to make their game to be UAC aware. There are tools there to do just that. that said, UAC didn't cause a single problem for me when I tried the Airborne demo. That's not to say the game wasn't problematic. It was pretty dicey IMHO. It ran pretty poorly for me. Considering it used the same unreal engine as Bioshock, which ran extremely well for me, there was no reason other than something EA did. The blame specifically belongs in EA's court not Vista's.

 

[jaegertech]

Notice the key term "because of UAC" That is entirely 100% in every way MS fault. Lets all put the blame squarely where it belongs.

Are you kidding? Was this meant to be satire? hhhmmmm.... What doesnt Vista run on??? That is a very long list.

In my experience, the only application that has failed to run due to UAC has been Airborne. Now, if EVERYTHING else works and one application doesn't, where do you think the fault really lies? The other problems tend to stem from applications that hadn't been updated for Vista compatibility at the time; by and large, that has been corrected since.

No, not satire. Booted from the install disc and and installed to a raid array with no additional drivers needed and minimal user input (created a partition, clicked a few buttons). I can only compare that install to WinXP (requires additional drivers) and Ubuntu (extensive command line use). Now, I can do and have done all three, but given the choice of doing one of them again, I'd pick Vista.

 

[Met-AL]

The next time you boot Vista up on your PDA, or GameCube, or PPC, or SparcStation then you can say that Vista has better hardware support. Until then your making a claim that you cant support with facts.

I have seen Windows run on a PDA and a PPC and a Phone.

You keep equating Vista as Linux in your BS comparisons. You should start equating Windows as Linux and get your own lines straight.

Lets pick Ubuntu x86 32 bit. I have never seen that run on a PDA or a GameCube or a PPC or a SparcStation. So, that means Windows (as in Windows in general) has better support then.

 

[eeyrjmr]

I have seen Windows run on a PDA and a PPC and a Phone.

You keep equating Vista as Linux in your BS comparisons. You should start equating Windows as Linux and get your own lines straight.

Lets pick Ubuntu x86 32 bit. I have never seen that run on a PDA or a GameCube or a PPC or a SparcStation. So, that means Windows (as in Windows in general) has better support then.

... it is a VERY bad misconception to treat different distro's as their own/different operating system. They are all effevilely the same (and with the kernel dropping the even/odd versioning even more so). You can download the source for all Ubuntu's packages using apt-get really easily, setup yr own chroot and build the appropriate toolchain for yr target arch and just re-roll all the Ubuntu packages (with Ubuntu patchsets) for that Arch... you now have a chroot (which can then be made into an iso for installing) for a completly different arch BUT it is Ubuntu




Linux runs on a large number of processors and has a huge database of supported devices a level to which Windows could only dream ofFACT!

 

[DeaconFrost]

You would think, with the supposed experience and knowledge of these boards, that we could come to the facts of this "debate" and move on to something productive. Arguing on subjects where both sides (one more than the other) are so biased, that reason won't ever shine through.

Linux and Windows both have their places, markets, uses, etc, and honestly, neither one is going to replace the other anytime soon, if ever.

What productive means are ever going to come out of this? Windows isn't the end-all-be all of computing, and the fact is, neither is Linux. As soon as everyone can come to this conclusion, we can stop this nasty, vicious cycle.