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Vista Pricing revealed.
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"Excellent points, especially this one. I love it when people start bashing MS for the simple reason it's an MS product before knowing anything about how the market works. Wonderful! The MSRP was indeed $300, but yet you could buy a retail copy online for $150 (non-upgrade). Common sense goes a long way."
The price range we're talking about here is quite a lot more than Windows XP Professional. You can get the retail version of XP online for about 2/3 of the MSRP or $100 off. That would lead people to believe that the cheapest price that you'll get the ultimate edition Vista for is $275 or $300. People are upset at this because Microsoft is a monopolist and no they really don't have a choice. Disagree with me? Lookup what the courts have said and argue with them.
"Someone please tell me why, there are debates and bashing on a product that hasn't even been released yet? Does anyone know what the deals with be on Vista? No. How about what it will cost to buy along with a new PC? No. But yet we can all post about it and bitch at Microsoft. Maybe part of their pricing scheme is a big "$#%@!! You" to all the ignorant, unjust negative feelings about them."
Mostly there are debates because we are all forced to use it and the bashing is going on because Microsoft, as all monopolists do, are charging more than the market price for their product to earn excess returns. What the deals will be won't really matter. What the prevailing price will be is what counts. In terms of a new PC, take a quick look around the forums. Does it seem like many people here go out and buy a new PC? Didn't tihnk so. Yes, we can make posts to bitch about a monopolist that pricing its software well beyond what the market rate is. The pricing is a big "$#%@!! You", but it more has to do with the fact that they're a monopolist looking to make excess returns than any disdain for their customers.
djnes, do you work for Microsoft?
The price range we're talking about here is quite a lot more than Windows XP Professional. You can get the retail version of XP online for about 2/3 of the MSRP or $100 off. That would lead people to believe that the cheapest price that you'll get the ultimate edition Vista for is $275 or $300. People are upset at this because Microsoft is a monopolist and no they really don't have a choice. Disagree with me? Lookup what the courts have said and argue with them.
"Someone please tell me why, there are debates and bashing on a product that hasn't even been released yet? Does anyone know what the deals with be on Vista? No. How about what it will cost to buy along with a new PC? No. But yet we can all post about it and bitch at Microsoft. Maybe part of their pricing scheme is a big "$#%@!! You" to all the ignorant, unjust negative feelings about them."
Mostly there are debates because we are all forced to use it and the bashing is going on because Microsoft, as all monopolists do, are charging more than the market price for their product to earn excess returns. What the deals will be won't really matter. What the prevailing price will be is what counts. In terms of a new PC, take a quick look around the forums. Does it seem like many people here go out and buy a new PC? Didn't tihnk so. Yes, we can make posts to bitch about a monopolist that pricing its software well beyond what the market rate is. The pricing is a big "$#%@!! You", but it more has to do with the fact that they're a monopolist looking to make excess returns than any disdain for their customers.
djnes, do you work for Microsoft?
When MS released XP, and I saw the prices I told everyone I wasn't going to buy a copy (I'm regularly use OSX, Windows and have linux for my server (FTP) and for Folding). Oddly enough, I ended up buying two copies on what were at the time my two new pcs.
This time, no smack talk from me, because well I use MS everyday, at the office and at home and I can see the value in spending even $500 (Although it won't be priced at that) for 5 years of product because I look at it like this:
Let's the price is $500.00 and we get another 5 years of use before MS release another OS. That means you paid:
$100/Year
OR
$8.33/Month
OR
$1.37/day
To me it's still worth it.
This time, no smack talk from me, because well I use MS everyday, at the office and at home and I can see the value in spending even $500 (Although it won't be priced at that) for 5 years of product because I look at it like this:
Let's the price is $500.00 and we get another 5 years of use before MS release another OS. That means you paid:
$100/Year
OR
$8.33/Month
OR
$1.37/day
To me it's still worth it.
Wonder if I can get a copy at my university for $10 like I did XP.
I bet even an OEM copy from newegg will still cost $200+ for ultimate. Maybe Home Premium will be in my future. But if the beta is any indication of how well the thing will run on my system, I probably won't be rushing to upgrade.
I bet even an OEM copy from newegg will still cost $200+ for ultimate. Maybe Home Premium will be in my future. But if the beta is any indication of how well the thing will run on my system, I probably won't be rushing to upgrade.
No, I don't, but I do tend to employ a bit of common sense when talking about Microsoft-related issues. It's quite sickening to see the number of people bash one single company without even knowing why, or anything about the issue at hand. It's apparently the cool thing to do, in addition to making up little kiddie names for them, like MicroShaft, M$ etc.general said:
I'm not going to debate the monopoly points, but what other options are there for the vast majority of computer users? Apples are too expensive, and Linux is too hard. No one is stopping Apple from releasing their OSX for x86, except Apple. So when can some of the blame of them being a monopoly fall on the competition as well? Part of the reason why Microsoft has been able to tread water for so long is because they haven't had the need to push forward too hard. Linux is getting better and easier, don't get me wrong, but it will be a LONG LONG time before your typical grandma is surfing the web for cookie recipes on a Linux box.
As far as the pricing goes, how about we wait until the details are more finalized, and we actually have a firm release date, along with reseller promotions in front of us, before we get our collective panties in a bunch.
QFT! I'm fedup of all the kiddies immediately saying "Micro$oft" or "M$" suck, their products suck, this and that. Fact is the price regardless of it being lower at e-tailers is still a bargain for the amount of use you get out of it.djnes said:
I'm not bashing any other operating system, i've used OSX, i've used Linux, but I prefer to stay towards the PC market than Apples market so Windows and Linux. When I install Windows, I install my other drivers and away I go, i'm not a linux expert but the few times I've tried installing certain drivers and applications has been nothing but a complete pain in the ass. I don't want to compile anything, I just want it to work, I don't want to sit for hours tweaking my individual network settings, setting up whatever configuration options I must, I just want to browse the internet.
I know there are solutions out there for Linux that make things easier and that i'm not exactly proficient in Linux so my view is somewhat biased, however with Windows, what I want to do, works. If I pop in some new hardware, it knows what to do for the most part, what Microsoft have accomplished with Windows is far more than many average users or "M$" bashers see, it's an incredible piece of technology.
In addition, the majority of those complaining about crashes, bugs, even all of the above - most of which are the cause of third party software/drivers installed by the user or incompatible hardware. I have the occasional problem with my installation of Windows XP, but I know it's not the operating system, it's some poorly written software screwing something up somewhere or some drivers causing havoc elsewhere in my system.
Anyway, I'm going to end my rant - I'm just fedup of people bashing Microsoft without any real knowledge or even thought going into what Windows actually does and what it's capable of. If you have a problem with your system, check the mirror first.
/rang
A bargain? It's funny that those other companies that sell operating systems that don't have a monopoly charge MUCH, MUCH less for it. You can argue bargain all you want. Perhaps you can hit up the jeweller later and look at some diamonds and see what a bargain they are. The sales person might even try to tell you that they're rare (they're not). When you have a monopolist involved, the end user gets screwed. You can babble all you want about Linux and Apple, but MS is a monopoly. The Supreme Court agrees with me so don't waste your time. They're a monopolist pricing things as monopolists do. They charge too much to capture excess gains. This is why people call them Micro$haft and many other names. Perhaps you enjoy bending over and taking it from Microsoft. Many other people don't.
The peope on here who rant about Microsoft know fully well what it does and what it is capable of. That is why they rant in the first place. Take a long look at their track record if you want to see what a great company they are. They don't exactly play fair or legally. I supposed you guys stand up for RIAA too in their lawsuits of grandmas, dead people and people who have never owned a computer before too.
The peope on here who rant about Microsoft know fully well what it does and what it is capable of. That is why they rant in the first place. Take a long look at their track record if you want to see what a great company they are. They don't exactly play fair or legally. I supposed you guys stand up for RIAA too in their lawsuits of grandmas, dead people and people who have never owned a computer before too.
Now you're adding words to our side, to try and make your own little point. Microsoft does enough to warrant some complaints, but don't be naive to think everytime someone has a complaint about Microsoft, it's justified. If you think that, you need to spend a LOT more time in this subforum. The RIAA targets those who do nothing wrong, all while raping the artists. The RIAA in no way, with any stretch of the imagination, should be compared to Microsoft. The simple fact you are trying to do so makes me question your understand of the issues at hand. You sound like one of the kiddies The Donut is talking about, you bash Microsoft because it's cool, and it makes you feel like part of the "in" crowd.general said:The peope on here who rant about Microsoft know fully well what it does and what it is capable of. That is why they rant in the first place. Take a long look at their track record if you want to see what a great company they are. They don't exactly play fair or legally. I supposed you guys stand up for RIAA too in their lawsuits of grandmas, dead people and people who have never owned a computer before too.
Furthuremore, no one is arguing with you that Microsoft is a monoply. GreNME would love you, because it would give him a chance to bring out his straw man definition. If you can't stay on topic and stay within the realm of the discussion, drop it. You're trolling for flames, so stay on topic, or the post will be reported as such.
Here's an example of what I mean. Not only do you needlessly bash MS, but you aren't even correct with your advice. On top of that, you're breaking the rules of the forum. Three strikes....
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029893241&postcount=8
depends on the licensing agreement that your work has with microsoft. In most cases, I would think that what you 'heard' is wrong, unless by "taking a copy home" you mean physically moving your PC or taking a laptop along, to work on THAT machine.98EXL said:
masteraleph
Limp Gawd
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ipam45 said:
Amazingly enough, you don't seem to have read through anything in this thread, including the "$260 or lower for Ultimate upgrade" bit. Congradulations.
w1retap
[H]F Junkie
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yay for MSDN..
through college = free
through work = $10
through other work = $20
Just asked our IT coordinator guy here at work, and he says they are supposed to offer us Basic and Ultimate through the MSDN system.
lol..
through college = free
through work = $10
through other work = $20
Just asked our IT coordinator guy here at work, and he says they are supposed to offer us Basic and Ultimate through the MSDN system.
lol..
I've heard that before to, but only for Office. If employees do work for their job on their home PC, they can have Office installed on that PC as well. I don't know this for sure, but it seems that I've heard this before. Of course, if these people just used a laptop, this would be a moot point.98EXL said:
After previewing Vista, I don't really feel any price would be worth it initially. Maybe a couple years down the road after some actual meat has been added, hopefully through a service pack or some type of upgrade pack. I believe the way Microsoft releases software will change drastically from the 2k/XP era to Vista; particularly in their operating systems. Some talk of this has surfaced lately.
One thing is for sure, just like anything else you buy in life (hardware, software, appliances, music instruments, bikes, cars, etc) you will likely never pay suggested retail price on any version of Vista. Retail Packaging and Retail Pricing are two entirely different terms holding two entirely different meanings in the HW/SW world.
On a side note, the most I have ever spent on an operating system was $119 for an OEM copy of Windows XP (I am back to discounted rates now though!). That felt like just a little too much, but not unmanageable. The operating system I use the most however is free monetarily, but sometimes I feel like it too is pricey heh.
One thing is for sure, just like anything else you buy in life (hardware, software, appliances, music instruments, bikes, cars, etc) you will likely never pay suggested retail price on any version of Vista. Retail Packaging and Retail Pricing are two entirely different terms holding two entirely different meanings in the HW/SW world.
On a side note, the most I have ever spent on an operating system was $119 for an OEM copy of Windows XP (I am back to discounted rates now though!). That felt like just a little too much, but not unmanageable. The operating system I use the most however is free monetarily, but sometimes I feel like it too is pricey heh.
I think the anti-MS crowd is a little too biased to open their eyes anyway. I'd be willing to bet, if Microsoft charged for SP2, general and others like him would bitch, and rightly so for a change. Apple has been doing this though, and I don't see very many people bashing them. Oh, right. Steve Jobs gives better speeches than Billy Gates, so he can't possibly be as evil. I can't speak too much for the Linux side, but I can tell you, I just purchased a new Dell server for work, and the Linux options were the most expensive of the choices. As a friend just told me on IM, Linux may be free, but the support costs of the corporate contracts often exceed what Microsoft charges.
Also, as Tweakin' said, you rarely ever pay the MSRP on new products. When's the last time anyone with an ounce of common sense paid MSRP for a new car?
Also, as Tweakin' said, you rarely ever pay the MSRP on new products. When's the last time anyone with an ounce of common sense paid MSRP for a new car?
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
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It's an Operating System. Period. No consumer OS should be this expensive.
IMHO.
-Larry
IMHO.
-Larry
The Donut said:
TechLarry
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Limited Activations?
Reference please?
-Larry
Reference please?
-Larry
Flyboat said:
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
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I'm with you except for one small snippit:
"You don't like it, don't buy it..."
First off, I hate that phrase. It's right up there with "If you're not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about".
Secondly, "You don't like it, dion't buy it..." does not always apply to a situation where you are dealing with a single company that controls 95% of the PC market, can dictate when and where it can cease support for older versions, etc...
Choice is a power not necessarily available in this situation.
Remember, unlikely as it is, MS can shut off activation for XP any time it wants to.
-Larry
"You don't like it, don't buy it..."
First off, I hate that phrase. It's right up there with "If you're not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about".
Secondly, "You don't like it, dion't buy it..." does not always apply to a situation where you are dealing with a single company that controls 95% of the PC market, can dictate when and where it can cease support for older versions, etc...
Choice is a power not necessarily available in this situation.
Remember, unlikely as it is, MS can shut off activation for XP any time it wants to.
-Larry
masteraleph said:
TechLarry
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Rumor has it, yes. And you won't even have to reinstall.
-Larry
-Larry
Riddlinkidstoner said:
The problem I have with MS (yes I am a Linux user, but I apreciate the existance for Windows, it aint for everybody).
The problem I have is two things
1) the Ultimate looks like the only one worth concidering (as a gamer, all serious stuff done in Linux + gaming - YES linux is good for gaming !!!) BUT for a new licence it cost $500 which is far to steep!!!
2) The versions of Windows I have are Windows2000 (OEM) and Windows-XP (OEM) both cost me £40 (legit!! didn't buy them until way into their life). MS have changed their OEM distrobution licence such you can no longer buy it with a ATX splitter cable (although I bought 2k with a GFX card and XP with a HD so not all too bad). IF OEM only available to new computer sod that!!!
3) the last upgrade via an upgrade method screwed everything up and it was such a hatchet-job. IF I can do a fresh-install BUT use say the XP disk as validation BUT the Vista data is only dumped to HD then the upgrade method is hte only way I would get it
anyone of the MS Homeboys care to fill in the gaps for me please
The problem I have is two things
1) the Ultimate looks like the only one worth concidering (as a gamer, all serious stuff done in Linux + gaming - YES linux is good for gaming !!!) BUT for a new licence it cost $500 which is far to steep!!!
2) The versions of Windows I have are Windows2000 (OEM) and Windows-XP (OEM) both cost me £40 (legit!! didn't buy them until way into their life). MS have changed their OEM distrobution licence such you can no longer buy it with a ATX splitter cable (although I bought 2k with a GFX card and XP with a HD so not all too bad). IF OEM only available to new computer sod that!!!
3) the last upgrade via an upgrade method screwed everything up and it was such a hatchet-job. IF I can do a fresh-install BUT use say the XP disk as validation BUT the Vista data is only dumped to HD then the upgrade method is hte only way I would get it
anyone of the MS Homeboys care to fill in the gaps for me please
Child of Wonder
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For shit's sake, I'll just buy a cheap Dell POS in couple years for a copy of Vista, then sell the components and dual boot Linux and Vista on a different machine for gaming purposes only.
Linux on everything else.
Linux on everything else.
filthysanchez
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doesnt it come with multiple licenses?
my friends were saying the would split it.
personally, im gonna stick with xp until someone gives it to me.
my friends were saying the would split it.
personally, im gonna stick with xp until someone gives it to me.
You know what ... I don't hate Microsoft, but why would I spend $350+ on an O/S to play games (including DX10) ??? I'll use linux on the desktop thank you very much and if I want to "game" I'll support microsoft by buying an xbox 360. (alot of game devs are moving to develop for consoles FIRST these days anyway)Flyboat said:
So to all the web surfers, office junkies then Linux will work fine, if you want to game buy a console (or stick with XP) until Vista becomes more affordable.
SJConsultant
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What I find absolutely hilarious is the fact that you guys are arguing over the cost of the most expensive consumer offering of Vista as if it will be the only choice out on the market.
marcusj3000
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Well I will be getting the Vista Ultimate upgrade cause I never really buy a full retail copy anymore since 98se. Most people complained the same thing with XP and still brought it so I don't even listen to the whiners anymore. If you think the business called Microsoft is gonna sell stuff for less and lose money, you might want to hold your breath and twirl aorund in circles till you pass out. Microsoft was created for a reason to make a profit and if you don't want to pay the price for the dawn vista OS "then don't buy it", that has been the rule since the old days. And by how much most people on this forum spends on games , computers, & parts, spending money on an OS shouldn't bring out a whining baby.
TheRapture
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The Donut said:
QFT, QFT, QFT.....
TheRapture
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eeyrjmr said:
Gee, what about Far Cry, CoD2, etc. ?
I am sure SOME games work GREAT under linux, but don't tell me you have ANYWHERE near as many games for Linux as for Windows (3d, I don't care about card games and such fluff).
TheRapture said:Gee, what about Far Cry, CoD2, etc. ?
I am sure SOME games work GREAT under linux, but don't tell me you have ANYWHERE near as many games for Linux as for Windows (3d, I don't care about card games and such fluff).
don't blame Linux, blame the game developers & their lockin to DX
Can you get MEGA for windows?
NO ergo Windows is Shite and not worth a penny
Well, even though it is insanely priced there is a reason for it and it has nothing to do with the "standard" business principles that have been shouted on here.
A couple of years ago a few Poland exchange students were staying at my house. Mainly since my schools Principle helped start their school in Poland. Well the principle of their school also came over and they had a meeting about furthering the school. One of the main topics was putting in computers to help the kids. So my father agreed to contact Microsoft about getting a Polish version of Windows for them. It took him about a good 30 minutes to get in touch with the correct department (I think the licensing and distribution department) The conversation went something very close to this...
Microsoft: "Hello, this is such-and-such from Microsoft... how may I help you?"
Father: "Hello... I am trying to get information on obtaining a copy of Windows in other languages."
Microsoft: "What particular language are you talking about and for what purpose?"
Father: "Well we had a couple of exchange students from Poland stay with us and it was suggested from their school principle that they obtain Microsoft Windows on their computers."
Microsoft: "Well I am sorry sir but we don't offer that in Poland"
Father: "What exactly do you mean by you don't offer it in Poland?"
Microsoft: "We don't sell it in the Polish language."
Father: "So what does everyone else in Poland do to get a hold of a copy of windows?"
Microsoft: "Well there are ways and people have do get a hold of it."
Father: "Well then what do I tell them to do? What are the ways that they can get a hold of it?"
Microsoft: **Laughs** "Well, to be honest, they will just get a copy of it from a friend or someone."
Father: "You mean that they just get an illegal copy of it from someone?"
Microsoft: "Well yes actually!"
Father: "Well then why can they just get it for free and we have to pay for it."
Microsoft: "Thats just how it is. Everyone in the US is actually paying for everyone else around the world."
Father: "So you mean to tell me that I am paying One Hundred dollars or more for an Operating System so that joe bum in England can get a copy of it from anyone for free?"
Microsoft: "Yes!"
Father: "Thats just completely wrong. I can't believe that I am paying for everyone else."
Microsoft: **Laughs** "To be honest, Microsofts unwritten policy for Microsoft products is that there can have up to 5 illegal copies per software in each household. If there are more then 5 copies then that is when we step in and start to do something about it and make problems."
Father: "Your telling me that they can have 5 copies of Microsoft Office, Microsoft Windows and any other Microsoft product without worry."
Microsoft: "Yup!".....
The conversation went on for a little bit longer but nothing more of importance. My father later went and double check this with a Microsoft employee at a conference and got a shaken-up nod and a shocked "yeah that would be correct".
A couple of years ago a few Poland exchange students were staying at my house. Mainly since my schools Principle helped start their school in Poland. Well the principle of their school also came over and they had a meeting about furthering the school. One of the main topics was putting in computers to help the kids. So my father agreed to contact Microsoft about getting a Polish version of Windows for them. It took him about a good 30 minutes to get in touch with the correct department (I think the licensing and distribution department) The conversation went something very close to this...
Microsoft: "Hello, this is such-and-such from Microsoft... how may I help you?"
Father: "Hello... I am trying to get information on obtaining a copy of Windows in other languages."
Microsoft: "What particular language are you talking about and for what purpose?"
Father: "Well we had a couple of exchange students from Poland stay with us and it was suggested from their school principle that they obtain Microsoft Windows on their computers."
Microsoft: "Well I am sorry sir but we don't offer that in Poland"
Father: "What exactly do you mean by you don't offer it in Poland?"
Microsoft: "We don't sell it in the Polish language."
Father: "So what does everyone else in Poland do to get a hold of a copy of windows?"
Microsoft: "Well there are ways and people have do get a hold of it."
Father: "Well then what do I tell them to do? What are the ways that they can get a hold of it?"
Microsoft: **Laughs** "Well, to be honest, they will just get a copy of it from a friend or someone."
Father: "You mean that they just get an illegal copy of it from someone?"
Microsoft: "Well yes actually!"
Father: "Well then why can they just get it for free and we have to pay for it."
Microsoft: "Thats just how it is. Everyone in the US is actually paying for everyone else around the world."
Father: "So you mean to tell me that I am paying One Hundred dollars or more for an Operating System so that joe bum in England can get a copy of it from anyone for free?"
Microsoft: "Yes!"
Father: "Thats just completely wrong. I can't believe that I am paying for everyone else."
Microsoft: **Laughs** "To be honest, Microsofts unwritten policy for Microsoft products is that there can have up to 5 illegal copies per software in each household. If there are more then 5 copies then that is when we step in and start to do something about it and make problems."
Father: "Your telling me that they can have 5 copies of Microsoft Office, Microsoft Windows and any other Microsoft product without worry."
Microsoft: "Yup!".....
The conversation went on for a little bit longer but nothing more of importance. My father later went and double check this with a Microsoft employee at a conference and got a shaken-up nod and a shocked "yeah that would be correct".
Sorry, but I call shennanigans.
MS offers their OS(s) in multiple languages (including Polish) and I'm sure they didn't spend the development money with the expectation that the product would be given away.
Certainly MS is aware of the global proliferation of software piracy but to think that they have simply shrugged their shoulders and decided to make the American market bear the total cost is absurd.
MS offers their OS(s) in multiple languages (including Polish) and I'm sure they didn't spend the development money with the expectation that the product would be given away.
Certainly MS is aware of the global proliferation of software piracy but to think that they have simply shrugged their shoulders and decided to make the American market bear the total cost is absurd.
TechLarry
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The installation DVD for Vista has all code for all versions. There is no download (except for updates, of course).
I've only read snippits on this, but from what I ready you can purchase a new upgrade key and upgrade in place to the version you want.
-Larry
I've only read snippits on this, but from what I ready you can purchase a new upgrade key and upgrade in place to the version you want.
-Larry
eeyrjmr said:
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
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Stand up. Take a look around you and think about where you are
[H]
-Larry
[H]
-Larry
SJConsultant said:What I find absolutely hilarious is the fact that you guys are arguing over the cost of the most expensive consumer offering of Vista as if it will be the only choice out on the market.