VideoCardz: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X to become world’s first 16-core gaming CPU

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Snowdog, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    The board venders have already disputes Intel trying to throw them under the bus. ASUS went so far to show internal mail where Intel authorised Pre configurated MCE states.

    Gamers Nexus did a full BS report on it and showed Intel only abides to TPD in base clock, turbo already exceeds TPD. This is old enough to realise that TPD is bollox and the fret is pointless.

    The to and fro about this crap is getting long in the tooth. TDP is a unicorn, time to move along.

    Time to go shoot off some 338's
     
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  2. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    And Earth is flat, but there is a worldwide conspiracy to hide this fact. One guy, that knows another guy that read a mail, said in a forum. :rolleyes:

    Since TDP is defined as sustained power consumption in computer science, it is obvious that turbo states (which are only active during a short period of time) will dissipate above the TDP value. Not only this is a logical consequence from knowing that turbo isn't a sustained state as the base clock, but many years ago Intel released graphs explaining TDPs and turbo

    sandybridge_061.jpg

    AMD has a long record on lying with TDP values. AMD did with Zen, did it again with Zen+, and is now doing it with Zen2. The first Rome CPUs have a "marketing" TDP of 225W, but the real TDP is 240W and the peak TDP is 265W.

    It will be funny to see which is the real TDP of this '105W' R9-3950X. Will be a 140W chip as the R7-2700X or even higher?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  3. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    ZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9JL1EvNjg0OTYyL29yaWdpbmFsLzA0LVBvd2VyLUNvbnN1bXB0aW9uLVRvcnR1cmUucG5n.png

    Hmm odd that looks nothing like 140 watts or even close to it. You keep trying to peddle that lie but no one is buying it.
     
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  4. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 [H]ard|Gawd

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  5. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If you have counter-proof, throw it out there. Seriously. It's a discussion, and we're all (well most of us) are here to learn.
     
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  6. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Agreed.
     
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  7. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwrevie...w-game-streaming-cpu-benchmarks-memory/page-3
     
  8. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    Tomshardware isn't measuring power. They simply reporting the reading of the internal sensors of the CPU. Not only their numbers not agree with real measurements or real cooling requirements (e.g. the rating of official coolers), but the numbers published by Tomshardware not even agree with readings at the wall. :rolleyes:

    We already know that AMD marketing TDP values are derived from an invented formula that doesn't represent real TDP: "AMD marketing formula for TDPs is lies." Read the thread.
     
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  9. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    You don't get to decide what is real and what isn't. Call me when you become somebody who does, until then if I need to know how to cook a paella, you best be online so because I might drop you a PM.
     
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  10. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    Oh so now Toms Hardware is no good.

    power.png Screenshot_2019-06-14 Intel Core i9-7900X (Skylake-X) Review bit-tech net.png
    blender-pwr-consumption.png
     
  11. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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  12. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ...why are you comparing the TDP for a bunch of HEDT parts....

    There's no 9900K, no 2700X, and no links provided.
     
  13. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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  14. Rockenrooster

    Rockenrooster Limp Gawd

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    *munches on popcorn*
     
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  15. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    Salted, buttered, sweet and salty?
     
  16. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    Tomshardware isn't measuring power with a probe so their numbers are irrelevant. The 168W and 202W at the wall measured by BitTech and KitGuru are compatible with 110--120W at the socket level for the 1800X (whose real TDP is 128W). GamerNexus doesn't measure the 1800X, but measures the 1700 and obtains 80W in the 12V channel using Blender, which is a correct value because the real TDP is 90W.

    The laws of physics do. That is the reason of why the the technical docs and the coolers are rated for the real TDPs, not for the marketing values.

    Ian's article is very misguided.
     
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  17. schmide

    schmide Limp Gawd

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    You are mistaken. Trust their own words:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/review...ement-cpu-gpu-components-powenetics,5481.html

    or your goto guy for disinformation (The Stilt) that gave up has no real equipment or site and is way out of date.

    Adding measuring at the wall should never be used as a metric. Especially with modern VRMs.
     
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  18. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    oh i am sorry, I am pretty sure nobody thought thermal physics was considered when they designed these CPU's, the world is a better place now that you have arrived to tell us what is not already obvious.

    So we can now sum up the bs of the last 2 pages, TDP is not total system power, derp and TDP is actually rated for thermal dissipation and related more to cooling derp.

    I trust Ian Cutress more than you.
     
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  19. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That pretty much rebuts your point, as again, it's up to the reviewers to verify settings and performance.
     
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  20. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    intel recommended is base clock only
     
  21. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ...TDP only, as spelled out in the article.
     
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  22. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    And their graphs show that TDP is only observed in continuous stat at stock clocks.
     
  23. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Their graphs don't show any clocks...
     
  24. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    PL1 state is at rated, PL2 is like 100w higher, the fact that intel doesn't even ship a stock cooler is enough to suggest they are playing bullshit with your TDP dreams.
     
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  25. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    AMD doesn't ship coolers on many enthusiast CPUs either...?

    I don't see the issue here with Intel. They've rated their parts, board makers have done something different.
     
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  26. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    The 2700 ships with a Wraith Spire, the only ones that don't have coolers is the Thread ripper SKU's
     
  27. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    That article mentions a new power measurement system that will be installed in their US labs and will be used for future reviews. The review of the 1800X was made before that and it didn't measure power but simply reported reading of CPU sensors. So your post is irrelevant.

    Not only the Stilt did bring us one of the more rigorous and extensive reviews of Zen and Zen+, but his power measurements agree with other reviews, with cooler ratings, and with technical docs.
     
  28. schmide

    schmide Limp Gawd

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    To what length will you go. LOL. Do you really think they wrote the article before they started using the equipment. They even mention that the equipment was used to measure the 480s pcie overdraw. circa 2016.

    They have the equipment, they use it.
     
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  29. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

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    mom-and-dad-arguing.jpg

    (Kidding. Mostly.)
     
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  30. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    Yep. They expected two years to write the article and their 1800X review reported "package power consumption" because that is what one measures in the PSU :rolleyes: Let us also ignore this:

    Let us further ignore the other four reviews mentioned here, common sense, the technical docs, and the cooler ratings.
     
  31. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    AMDs death was greatly exaggerated. 3950x would be cool too own but, I am content with my 1600, 2600 and 1700.

    Intel has problems and this time, they cannot buy their way out of it or hope for an Isreali miracle. Also, Hector Ruiniz is not in control this time.
     
  32. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    Well I see he's gone into fantasy land now and complete denial. I can see why your single again and now back here annoying us with your excuse train why some chart or benchmark that shows Intel in a bad light is all wrong.
     
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  33. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise [H]ard|Gawd

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    Intel will be fine, just as AMD has been fine to this point as you indicate. Sometimes one steps ahead of the other, and it would be a mistake to ever count one or the other as out of it. Especially when as you point out, a competent CEO can help drive things in a much healthier direction. I really like Dr. Su's no-nonsense approach, and I think she is much better at making high level go/no-go decisions than Ruiz.

    Isn't it awesome to even be able to have a real discussion on what parts might be better again?

    There, I'm done with positivity for today. ;)
     
  34. schmide

    schmide Limp Gawd

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    Before we go further down this rabbit hole.

    PSUs are typically 70-85% efficient, so power measured at the wall is 15-30% more than actual board usage.

    VRMs are typically 90% efficient, so power measured there is typically 10% more than socket usage.

    A good motherboard VRM talk. Gamers Nexus' Buildzoid



    So no matter how well you measure things, the processor gets less than what you're able to measure.

    Moreover when dealing with TDP you have a system with both thermal capacity and resistance. Both companies allow the systems to run over power to achieve better performance.

    None of this should be shocking news.

    IMO TDP should be seen as a minimum not a maximum.
     
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  35. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    BTW, I really enjoyed that review for the Gigabyte X570. I think I saw it yesterday.
     
  36. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    TDP being THERMAL has been decoupled from power for years.
    AMD TDP makes sense in its own right, so does Intels. Since their definitions are not a secret, then in context they make sense.
    Not even Intels white papers dispute AMDs as 'lies' or otherwise... The issue does get complicated... Long gone are the days of a 1 ghz cpu was 1ghz all the time and used x amount of watts, and dissipated x amount of heat.
    To call one lies and not the other is just dishonest. BOTH represent less POWER than what the cpu can soak up. I don't know how good stock coolers are, but if for both the cpus can performed as sold with the stock cooler, then its a proper pairing. If you buy an equally rated cooler as the cpu and the cpu works as advertised, then the tdp value is true. Power its a different issue, if you buy a 95w cpu you are not going to buy a ps with 95w to the cpu.. if you don't know that, you shouldn't put together your own pc.
     
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  37. thebufenator

    thebufenator [H]ard|Gawd

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    What a fascinating discussion about TDP on Intel CPUs in an AMD thread. Gee what caused that?

    Couldn't possibly be the Intel shill that even Linus Torvalds called BS on. Could it?


    On topic: I am really looking forward to seeing what kind of power efficiency can be wrung or of these parts, as Zen+ was already pretty good when undervolted.
     
  38. crazycrave

    crazycrave Limp Gawd

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    I like my 1400 at 65 watts .. but it can not push CX 570 like X58 can when overclocked even with older PCI 2.0 but I have learned that ReLive does affect my overall scores as the older cpu does not like the foot print ..I have a Ready Cache SSD drive I was thinking of adding to help the old cpu a little in that area ..

    http://www.3dmark.com/fs/17512146

    http://www.3dmark.com/fs/19125137

    debating on adding 3rd RX 570

     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  39. juanrga

    juanrga Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI

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    We know, and the looses are already considered when giving the power actually draw by the CPU alone. That is why we read more than 128W in the 12V channel for the 128W 1800X, for instance.
     
  40. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    Talking about TDP in 2019, this is funny. I can imagine running Intel recommended TDP benches, there will be 3.6ghz tests with Cinebench 1T scores around 150 and the earth will be a black void of depression.
     
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