Vega Rumors

[NKD]

At very least i expected 1080ti prices to drop slightly. I used to be one of those that gets the best on release even though i didn't need it. It was more about bragging rights.
Thing is you pay premium because of demand, I've gotten wiser and wait a little. This also gives me much larger range of cards to pick from.

If VEGA did launch and it was anything like Ryzen i would have acted like child again and pre ordered a reference card! haha only because from i read supply might be an issue. =\

Plenty of 1080ti here in forums less than month after launch. I got mine here for 575 shipped. I almost never buy retail. With warranties based on serial with most companies its a no brainer.

 

[Pasic]

Plenty of 1080ti here in forums less than month after launch. I got mine here for 575 shipped. I almost never buy retail. With warranties based on serial with most companies its a no brainer.

Im from Australia.
Reference card here is over 800USD and 1080ti strix 1027$ USD.

 

[NKD]

Im from Australia.
Reference card here is over 800USD and 1080ti strix 1027$ USD.

well that sucks.

 

[razor1]

who is thinking its gaming performance vs power usage is going to be great on these cards? That prey demo 4k ultra is not impressive one 1080ti does over 60 fps @those settings!

 

[SolidSnake3035]

Well, this sucks.

I can't say I expected much, but at least more than this. Still no decent - let alone good - information, and at least two months away, probably more for any nice non-reference models...


I've had AMD/ATI cards for as far back as I can remember after Voodoo... One or two All-In-Wonder models, the X800XT Platinum Edition, a Vapor-X 4890, a reference 6950 that flashed to a 6970, and currently a Vapor-X 290. I just ordered an EVGA 1080Ti FTW3... I can't keep waiting on disappointment.

Hopefully they turn this shit around for competition's sake, but I'm not holding my breath anymore. But at least Ryzen is great, and I hope that goes on to do extremely well.

 

[razor1]

oddly this launch reminds me of the FX series (don't think it will be like that exactly, at least not that bad in comparison to performance of relative cards in their price range and image quality) but if I remember correctly, nV did say the same or similar things about driver development for the FX series and "new architecture" was the reason for its delay.

nV did do a marketing campaign well before Fx's release too!

That is just two of the similarities.

 

[dook43]

Plenty of 1080ti here in forums less than month after launch. I got mine here for 575 shipped. I almost never buy retail. With warranties based on serial with most companies its a no brainer.

I haven't seen a listing below 600... your guy must have been desperate to pay his rent.

 

[spine]

oddly this launch reminds me of the FX series (don't think it will be like that exactly, at least not that bad in comparison to performance of relative cards in their price range and image quality) but if I remember correctly, nV did say the same or similar things about driver development for the FX series and "new architecture" was the reason for its delay.

nV did do a marketing campaign well before Fx's release too!

That is just two of the similarities.

Interesting point!

Maybe HBM2 is proving a tad problematic to get working well, especially in older games?

 

[NKD]

I haven't seen a listing below 600... your guy must have been desperate to pay his rent.

its called making a decent offer and getting the other person engaged. I did and I made a good deal. Buyer was selling for 625+.

 

[NKD]

oddly this launch reminds me of the FX series (don't think it will be like that exactly, at least not that bad in comparison to performance of relative cards in their price range and image quality) but if I remember correctly, nV did say the same or similar things about driver development for the FX series and "new architecture" was the reason for its delay.

nV did do a marketing campaign well before Fx's release too!

That is just two of the similarities.

I really don't think AMD ever said oh wait drivers are not finished. All they said was its a new architecture and drivers are most important thing and hard to do to a response in AMA. It was like a general response. We all know what the issue for delay is. HBM2, everything else is just speculation. That is one thing we are almost certain of and we know they can't escape the marriage with HBM2 for now. May be Navi fixes that.

 

[NKD]

who is thinking its gaming performance vs power usage is going to be great on these cards? That prey demo 4k ultra is not impressive one 1080ti does over 60 fps @those settings!

That demo was running insanely fast though. Fury x is already getting 40+ fps at 4k. If vega couldn't get 60 compared to 45 of fury then really its just stupid and pretty much impossible to fail that hard. I think they were just promoting a system as a whole at that point.

I don't know though I think people are looking too much in to this. They never compared to anything, they never showed you the FPS counter, its like they were selling you an expensive system and promoting Prey. I mean they have been showing demos running single Vega before and Prey is not even that taxing of a game. I saw some bad screen tearing due to fast fps. I think this was just oh look you can have a really fast thread ripper system with all these PCI-e lanes, buy it in summer.

 

[razor1]

That demo was running insanely fast though. Fury x is already getting 40+ fps at 4k. If vega couldn't get 60 compared to 45 of fury then really its just stupid and pretty much impossible to fail that hard. I think they were just promoting a system as a whole at that point.

If one Vega card was able to do 60+ frames a second on ultra at 4k they would have shown; that would have been much more impressive than putting 2 in there.

And 45 to 60 guess what that is 30% increase in performance, that puts right at gtx 1080 levels.

 

[NKD]

If one Vega card was able to do 60+ frames of second on ultra at 4k they would have shown that that would have been much more impressive than putting 2 in there.

And 45 to 60 guess what that is 30% increase in performance, that puts right at gtx 1080 levels.

I am just guessing. I am saying vega will give you 60 easily. We are looking at 55% clock increase from fury x to vega. With some architecture changes and clock increase I am expecting atlest 50% increase. Haven't they shown single card vega running 4k before. In sniper elite and doom? Prey is seriously not even that taxing on system, single vega should should be rocking around 65-70fps from clock speed alone.

The demo was running pretty fast though. To me she was selling a super high end system. Hey spend all this money on threadripper and to vega's. I can't knock on a company for wanting to sell me two vega's instead of one with all them PCI-e lanes.

 

[razor1]

I am just guessing. I am saying vega will give you 60 easily. We are looking at 55% clock increase from fury x to vega. With some architecture changes and clock increase I am expecting atlest 50% increase. Haven't they shown single card vega running 4k before. In sniper elite and doom? Prey is seriously not even that taxing on system, single vega should should be rocking around 65-70fps from clock speed alone.

The demo was running pretty fast though.

I don't think it will be a solid 60.
The problem with that is , if the front end problems still exist on Vega, even increasing clock speed will still be held back, not going to get linear scaling.

If a single one can do 60 solid, they would have just showed that. Why put two in there? Makes no sense. Its actually dampens the performance expectations when they do that. Now if they used a 120 mhz monitor, then that would be impressive, but they didn't say that either.

 

[NKD]

I don't think it will,
The problem with that is , if the front end problems still exist on Vega, even increasing clock speed will still be held back, not going to get linear scaling.

We will see soon enough. I can bet 60+ fps on vega very minimum in prey. I am thinking atleast 70. Its like a sin for AMD to even mention crossfire lmao. Its like they can't possibly even try to advertise or sell it. It automatically means single vega is not good enough for anything lol. I think that is just crazy mentality. Its not like people don't buy two 1080ti's for higher refresh rate. May be they were running 100+hz 4k monitor? and wanted second card in there to keep up with refresh rate? It really makes sense to me. That FPS was definitely way above 60, them frames were moving fast and there was also some bad screen tearing at one spot.

 

[razor1]

We will see soon enough. I can bet 60+ fps on vega very minimum in prey. I am thinking atleast 70. Its like a sin for AMD to even mention crossfire. Its like they can't possibly even try to advertise or sell it. It automatically means single vega is not good enough for anything lol. I think that is just crazy mentality. Its not like people don't buy two 1080ti's for higher refresh rate. May be they were running 100hz 4k monitor? and wanted second card in there to keep up with refresh rate? It really makes sense to me. That FPS was definitely way above 60, them frames were moving fast and there was also some bad screen tearing at one spot.

Is it crazy when they they did that with a Dual Polaris to go up against a single gtx 1080.

Marketing is always simple, never complex, either it can do it or can't. If there needs to be ways to show it can compete, its f*cked.

Same thing with Ryzen, Polaris, any of the recent AMD launches, they cherry picked specifics, and showed that to give impressions would be and end results, have fallen short in ever instance for the past what 6 years now? We can say 10 years, with standing the hd 4xxx and 5xxx series.

 

[NKD]

Is it crazy when they they did that with a Dual Polaris to go up against a single gtx 1080.

Marketing is always simple, never complex, either it can do it or can't. If there needs to be ways to show it can compete, its f*cked.

yes that was crazy. they tried to compare two rx 480s to 1080. But nothing like that here. They are basically being chewed out for showing a prey demo running in crossfire. I can bet a few bucks they were running a 100+hz monitor, and they were getting 100+ fps, likely faster. The way the demo was moving it looked like FPS was fairly high + the screen tearing going on.

 

[razor1]

yes that was crazy. they tried to compare two rx 480s to 1080. But nothing like that here. They are basically being chewed out for showing a prey demo running in crossfire. I can bet a few bucks they were running a 100+hz monitor, and they were getting 100+ fps, likely faster. The way the demo was moving it looked like FPS was fairly high + the screen tearing going on.

if it was a 100 mhz monitor they would have frame locked it lol. Why would you get screen tearing at that point?

Screen tearing can also occur at lower frames too. Its just a sync issue. Tearing doesn't mean high frame rates.

PS it tends to happen more at lower frames than higher frames. Well I should say huge dips from high to low.

 

[NKD]

Is it crazy when they they did that with a Dual Polaris to go up against a single gtx 1080.

Marketing is always simple, never complex, either it can do it or can't. If there needs to be ways to show it can compete, its f*cked.

Same thing with Ryzen, Polaris, any of the recent AMD launches, they cherry picked specifics, and showed that to give impressions would be and end results, have fallen short in ever instance for the past what 6 years now? We can say 10 years, with standing the hd 4xxx and 5xxx series.

Ryzen is good. I would buy it in a heart beat if I didn't have the retail edge hookup. Ryzen delivers I don't know whats wrong with ryzen. Is it perfect? no! But ryzen is getting intel of the lazy wagon. To knock on ryzen and say AMD cherry picked and it sucks everywhere else just crazy. Ryzen is competitive, intel thinks so!

 

[NKD]

if it was a 100 mhz monitor they would have frame locked it lol. Why would you get screen tearing at that point?

Screen tearing can also occur at lower frames too. Its just a sync issue. Tearing doesn't mean high frame rates.

PS it tends to happen more at lower frames than higher frames.

I have played enough games to know how the fps moves and if its fast. FPS was fast in the demo! I can pretty much guarantee it!

 

[razor1]

Ryzen is good. I would buy it in a heart beat if I didn't have the retail edge hookup. Ryzen delivers I don't know whats wrong with ryzen. Is it perfect? no! But ryzen is getting intel of the lazy wagon. To knock on ryzen and say AMD cherry picked and it sucks everywhere else just crazy. Ryzen is competitive, intel thinks so!

Its "more" competitive and actually gives a choice to particular markets, its not 100% competitive. Its not equal. And even that won't last long.

 

[razor1]

I have played enough games to know how the fps moves and if its fast. FPS was fast in the demo! I can pretty much guarantee it!

You are watching a recording that is locked at 24 FPS, you can't assume that.

 

[NKD]

Its "more" competitive and actually gives a choice to particular markets, its not 100% competitive. Its not equal. And that won't last long.

lol! We can agree to disagree.

 

[NKD]

You are watching a recording that is locked at 24 FPS, you can't assume that.

But you are assuming everything else? Hahaha. Like I said we can agree to disagree.

 

[razor1]

But you are assuming everything else? Hahaha

There is nothing to assume in what I stated, its exactly what Lisa Sue stated lol.

Thats the problem, I don't assume, I go based on what they say. 2 Vega's to show 60+ frames a sec@4k ultra settings for Prey.

Pretty straight forward.

And your post about Ryzen,

Nothing to argue there, the only people that would be remotely interested in Ryzen that has any advantage over Intel, are people that are steaming while playing a game or needs a cheapo workstation.

Yes Ryzen is a cheap alternative to what is really needed for a professional 3d or 2d system user.

Damn those are the only demos they ever show of Ryzen when they talk about Intel, why is that? Even now with Thread Ripper. Wonder why?

Now we have skewed DL benchmarks and vague gaming benchmarks that can't be quantified lol, and the ones that can be show it at 1080 performance levels.

Just for analogy purposes, FX launch nV always used Unreal tournament 2004 And professional software for their demo presentations.

 

[NKD]

There is nothing to assume in what I stated, its exactly what Lisa Sue stated lol.

Thats the problem, I don't assume, I go based on what they say. 2 Vega's to show 60+ frames a sec@4k ultra settings for Prey.

Pretty straight forward.

And your post about Ryzen,

Nothing to argue there, the only people that would be remotely interested in Ryzen that has any advantage over Intel, are people that are steaming while playing a game or needs a cheapo workstation.

Yes Ryzen is a cheap alternative to what is really needed for a professional 3d or 2d system user.

Damn those are the only demos they ever show of Ryzen when they talk about Intel, why is that? Even now with Thread Ripper. Wonder why?

Now we have skewed DL benchmarks and vague gaming benchmarks that can't be quantified lol, and the ones that can be show it at 1080 performance levels.

is she said we are showing 60+ fps with 2 vegas then I guess you are right but I dont remember her saying that. Have you checked lately? 1080p performance has only gotten better with ryzen. Tomb raider just got another 30% increase. Same applies to intel by your explanation, in that case every should buy a 7700k and call it a day. Because there is no need for anything else.

I don't agree with AMDs techniques but I will never be the guy who criticizes any product unless its out. I guess I have certain rules I live by, When vega is out if its shit I will call it. Until then I shall enjoy my watercooled 1080ti screaming at 2050mhz all day long.. lol

 

[razor1]

is she said we are showing 60+ fps with 2 vegas then I guess you are right but I dont remember her saying that. Have you checked lately? 1080p performance has only gotten better with ryzen. Tomb raider just got another 30% increase. Same applies to intel by your explanation, in that case every should buy a 7700k and call it a day. Because there is no need for anything else.

I don't agree with AMDs techniques but I will never be the guy who criticizes any product unless its out. I guess I have certain rules I live by, When vega is out if its shit I will call it.

Tomb raider is just one game, and there was a bug Ryzen's bios. That isn't everything. Even with that bug fixed, its not something I would recommend a PC gamer to buy. AMD is still the cheap alternative, if a person can't afford to get a better system for their specific needs, then Ryzen is the way to go, and its only a temporary fix, cause all Intel has to do is get a chip out that is 10% faster per clock, not very hard for them to do, with Skylake X and Coffee Lake, I think. We aren't talking about 50% increase in IPC here right?

I'm going to criticize AMD, Raja, stated or eluded to a full launch in his AMA in reddit (when he stated you won't be able to buy it the week of computex, I expected a launch), and he also stated they will speak more about Vega's product line @ Computex, times up, they did none of that lol.

So far they only showed us smoke and mirrors, being 1 a half years after the competition's release, that is not reassuring. If there is smoke there is a fire.

Oh another compression to the FX launch, nV stated it was the most complex chip they ever built so its harder to manufacture and that too is taking them time!

All these types of things they are saying are excuses, and "other peoples" problems.....

 

[OutOfPhase]

Lack of data coming out of AMD is actually its own data.

I have no doubt if AMD had something they felt was a true home run at any price point, we'd be getting at least wink-wink 'in a couple months, your card will be a turd' if not outright numerical data. They'd want to ice NV's sales right now if they could. Clearly what they have is not a leapfrog.

What remains to be seen is whether it's a knife fight at some price points (good), or bringing a knife to a gunfight (bad).

 

[NKD]

Lack of data coming out of AMD is actually its own data.

I have no doubt if AMD had something they felt was a true home run at any price point, we'd be getting at least wink-wink 'in a couple months, your card will be a turd' if not outright numerical data. They'd want to ice NV's sales right now if they could. Clearly what they have is not a leapfrog.

What remains to be seen is whether it's a knife fight at some price points (good), or bringing a knife to a gunfight (bad).

That is the issue. AMD is not really hurting I know it may seem that way. But Ryzen is selling well, every single rx 580 has sold. Yours truly razor has like 6 of them lol and that's not even on sale. I think this just gives them more cushion to wait for HBM2 ramp up and launch in 2 months.

 

[MrSteel74]

To paraphrase South Park AMD keeps promising the dragons are coming but they keep sticking a big floppy wiener in our faces.

 

[CSI_PC]

I am just guessing. I am saying vega will give you 60 easily. We are looking at 55% clock increase from fury x to vega. With some architecture changes and clock increase I am expecting atlest 50% increase. Haven't they shown single card vega running 4k before. In sniper elite and doom? Prey is seriously not even that taxing on system, single vega should should be rocking around 65-70fps from clock speed alone.

The demo was running pretty fast though. To me she was selling a super high end system. Hey spend all this money on threadripper and to vega's. I can't knock on a company for wanting to sell me two vega's instead of one with all them PCI-e lanes.

Unfortunately though that 55% clock increase is not guaranteed and is boost.
I thought at 1st they must be hitting it due initial benchmark to the P100 9.3 TFLOPs card, but I am no longer convinced they are really that close to sustaining that 1600GHz level if one goes by the Heise article and how they identified AMD carefully picked a few of the results out of the complete DL benchmark, allowing for that its performance ends up just under 10% faster instead of around 33%.
However review benchmarks will help once it launches to make a better conclusion as there really is not much to go on so far even from the benchmarks AMD has released.

Regarding Prey at 4K, no idea why AMD did dual Vega because they showed a single GPU at 4K keeping other modern games above 60fps; Star Wars Battlefield 2 in the past and recently Sniper Elite 4 at Financial Analyst Day.
So I would expect a single Vega to sustain 60fps, they do not necessarily have to set the absolute highest shadow/lighting environment effects/AA used, just need to mention 4k with highest normal setting (usually some settings are beyond highest defaults and require further custom or the more severe AA types).
Would had been better if it had just one IMO and I do think it could had run the demo when considering there is usually a bit of leeway with the highest settings/AA.

Cheers

 

[Gideon]

Perhaps your overlooking a fact with that Prey demo, the fact that they are showing the drivers are done enough that crossfire works. Or it was all smoke and mirrors and really only 1 card is running it and they did it just to make it look impressive hardware wise even tho it's still not ready yet. Who knows for sure.

 

[CSI_PC]

Perhaps your overlooking a fact with that Prey demo, the fact that they are showing the drivers are done enough that crossfire works. Or it was all smoke and mirrors and really only 1 card is running it and they did it just to make it look impressive hardware wise even tho it's still not ready yet. Who knows for sure.

I think AMD has muddied the water a bit with the Prey demo; werent all the other demos a single Vega/Frontier GPU?
If they can run Sniper Elite 4 and Star Wars Battlefront 2 at 4K then they should had been able to do the same with Prey; in all cases the context is 4K rather than the ultimate custom shadow/lighting/AA that is beyond such presentations so they would have some leeway.

Cheers

 

[razor1]

That is the issue. AMD is not really hurting I know it may seem that way. But Ryzen is selling well, every single rx 580 has sold. Yours truly razor has like 6 of them lol and that's not even on sale. I think this just gives them more cushion to wait for HBM2 ramp up and launch in 2 months.

Telling ya man its not because of miners, JPR results just came in a day ago, AMD lost market share with Polaris 2% drop actually, so what ever is going on with AMD, its more than their cards selling like hot cakes, they just can't produce them.

 

[NKD]

Telling ya man its not because of miners, JPR results just came in a day ago, AMD lost market share with Polaris 2% drop actually, so what ever is going on with AMD, its more than their cards selling like hot cakes, they just can't produce them.

Idk about that. They had shit load available on launch. I highly doubt they are having hard time making 580s. Miners are crazy right now. You can't really say that. You grabbed 6 of them lol. They have been out of stock since this ether took over.

 

[razor1]

well yeah I did, but I would grab another 60 of them if I can lol.

And with JPR numbers there is no skirting around the issue, there is a problem somewhere with their manufacturing pipeline. If we can get 1070's, 1060's (the two hottest selling cards from nV), rx 570's with ease, wtf is going on with the rx 580's?

I'm probably going to end up getting the rx 570's instead, that extra 4 gb of memory really doesn't do me any good anyways, I can get close to the same hash rates. And I really don't give a shit about power costs much if I'm going to set up a ware house or commercial place, cause my kilowatt per hour drops to 2 cents to 4 cents.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

To paraphrase South Park AMD keeps promising the dragons are coming but they keep sticking a big floppy wiener in our faces.

Not really Vega was slated for Q2 2017 and it seems there is a Vega for Q2 but not the Vega you have been looking for.

If AMD could have released RX Vega earlier they would have done so. It is not pretty when AMD releases something to soon , AM4 is getting the bios this month it should have shipped with.

 

[CSI_PC]

Not really Vega was slated for Q2 2017 and it seems there is a Vega for Q2 but not the Vega you have been looking for.

If AMD could have released RX Vega earlier they would have done so. It is not pretty when AMD releases something to soon , AM4 is getting the bios this month it should have shipped with.

Ah man made me think of Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars A New Hope but changed to say "These aren't the Vegas you're looking for"
Cheers

 

[cybereality]

Now if they used a 120 mhz monitor, then that would be impressive, but they didn't say that either.

For sure. If they had Prey running at 120 MHz that would have been most impressive.

 

[Gideon]

Telling ya man its not because of miners, JPR results just came in a day ago, AMD lost market share with Polaris 2% drop actually, so what ever is going on with AMD, its more than their cards selling like hot cakes, they just can't produce them.

Well they did just switch from a 480 to 580, likely they ran down old stock and our now ramping up 580 stock. They made tons of 290x cards and the miners just plain cleaned them out, I was lucky to snag one at msrp. Heck if was not for miners I dont think my 290x would still be worth over 200 bucks, they are a blessing and a curse if you want AMD cards.