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Vega Rumors

NKD said:
There hasn’t been any at 499.99 after launch date. Not even at 599.99 actually.
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cageymaru got one this Wednesday for $499 at Amazon.
https://hardforum.com/threads/rx-vega-owners-thread.1941944/page-5#post-1043179370

BestBuy has one for $599 right now in stock.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/xfx-am...0-graphics-card-black/6040105.p?skuId=6040105

XFX64.PNG
 
The things you guys argue about, if you dont like the price then dont buy it. It's super simple to me and if enough people dont buy it then the price tends to go down. I swear it's like some of you get instant amnesia on a new gpu or cpu launch, there has and will always be price gouging until the market cools.
 
Gideon said:
The things you guys argue about, if you dont like the price then dont buy it. It's super simple to me and if enough people dont buy it then the price tends to go down. I swear it's like some of you get instant amnesia on a new gpu or cpu launch, there has and will always be price gouging until the market cools.
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Obviously people aren't buying if the price isn't right; that's why the argument was skipped!

But the 'gouging' is a more recent phenomenon, and that's why the topic is getting traction; further, it cannot be said that it will 'always happen'. If supply exceeds demand, it won't. Here, it's extreme because AMD vastly underdelivered Vega, and given the less than stellar performance of Vega 64, vastly might be an understatement.
 
DooKey said:
And the usual suspects will suck AMD dick and won't care when AMD pulls out and shoots off in their eyes.

For the record I don't understand why anyone worships a fucking company that wants to get as much money out of you as they can.
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Fully agree with you. It's equally bad on both sides.
 
DooKey said:
And the usual suspects will suck AMD dick and won't care when AMD pulls out and shoots off in their eyes.

For the record I don't understand why anyone worships a fucking company that wants to get as much money out of you as they can.
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Last time i checked, Intel, AMD, nor Nvidia were running a non profit... I see a ton of bashing AMD here for no good reason. If their product is so bad, it will stop selling... This will force a price reduction to correct. If it continues to sell out, then the price should rise which curbs demand to meet supply.
 
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SMH, it's a new GPU at launch, pricing is always wonky at launch. I don't know why we're arguing so forcefully about it, not like it's the second coming.

I sat on several retailer websites during the 1080 launch, and some retailers were *gasp* price gouging. And others weren't. Just like now. I got so fed up with it, I ended up waiting for the 1080 Ti instead. Here's a little hint on why nobody can find the MSRP Vegas: They're selling out the moment they hit 'shelves' and the product listed above MSRP is staying in stock longer. Just like what happened during Pascal launch. Just like what happened at Maxwell launch. Just like what happened at... do I need to go on?

This isn't unique to AMD. It sucks. It's not worth getting worked up over and calling other people names. Blame retailers. Blame distributors. Blame AMD for coming up with such an odd way to market.
 
keshley said:
SMH, it's a new GPU at launch, pricing is always wonky at launch. I don't know why we're arguing so forcefully about it, not like it's the second coming.

I sat on several retailer websites during the 1080 launch, and some retailers were *gasp* price gouging. And others weren't. Just like now. I got so fed up with it, I ended up waiting for the 1080 Ti instead. Here's a little hint on why nobody can find the MSRP Vegas: They're selling out the moment they hit 'shelves' and the product listed above MSRP is staying in stock longer. Just like what happened during Pascal launch. Just like what happened at Maxwell launch. Just like what happened at... do I need to go on?

This isn't unique to AMD. It sucks. It's not worth getting worked up over and calling other people names. Blame retailers. Blame distributors. Blame AMD for coming up with such an odd way to market.
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Great post. Happens every launch. Prices on release are gouged to the moon. And you were right to wait for the 1080ti. Anybody with an ounce of sense would have.
 
Presbytier said:
Are we still talking about the price? I can't wait till there are more readily available and we can complain about how it performs in edge cases.
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You don't have to keep reading the thread, there is plenty of other Vega content on the forum :)
 
Ocellaris said:
You don't have to keep reading the thread, there is plenty of other Vega content on the forum :)
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I am being tonguein cheek, but I think you can only beat a dead horse for so long. This topic has been exhausted. I would rather read a hundred pages on how magical drivers will enable it to beat Titan Xp in quad sli; that at least would be entertaining.
 
Presbytier said:
I am being tonguein cheek, but I think you can only beat a dead horse for so long. This topic has been exhausted. I would rather read a hundred pages on how magical drivers will enable it to beat Titan Xp in quad sli; that at least would be entertaining.
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I think that AMD should subsidize the RX 580 market with rebates to lower the price for consumers. GPU upgrades for all! (Use your best communist Russia voice.)

 
well yeah, its GCN, GCN has always had this problem, can't expect great things from the same old architecture rehashed.

Just like Fermi and Fermi 2, Fermi was a power hog and Fermi 2 was too, but at least they had the performance to back them up.
 
razor1 said:
well yeah, its GCN, GCN has always had this problem, can't expect great things from the same old architecture rehashed.

Just like Fermi and Fermi 2, Fermi was a power hog and Fermi 2 was too, but at least they had the performance to back them up.
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I think that is the crux of this. If the performance was there I don't think anyone would be too concerned with power consumption. We might still be arguing that NVIDIA is more efficient per watt, but at the end of the day, the GPU king is still the GPU king. It was certainly a considerable deal of wishful thinking to believe Vega was actually going to go toe to toe with the 1080ti. Either way, I think this Architecture is quite literally at its limit. Sure they could add another 3 billion resistors to get the clocks higher again, but that is right where we are at with the architecture; it certainly appears to be pushing up against its scalability limits.
 
Presbytier said:
It was certainly a considerable deal of wishful thinking to believe Vega was actually going to go toe to toe with the 1080ti.
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Yet here we are with a plethora of performance enhancing driver features now known to not be currently enabled and Vega64 is already ahead of 1080ti in some tests. Wishful thinking was assuming a superior architecture on paper wouldn't pass the inferior one when fully enabled. The real question is how far beyond 1080ti it goes. Already there are Nvidia pundits pushing the coming of Volta, with it's architecture that looks like GCN. Not surprising with SM6.0 based around GCN2. Nvidia are probably desperate to unload Pascal's while they still can, then have owners upgrade to Volta just to support everything within a year.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
Yet here we are with a plethora of performance enhancing driver features now known to not be currently enabled and Vega64 is already ahead of 1080ti in some tests. Wishful thinking was assuming a superior architecture on paper wouldn't pass the inferior one when fully enabled. The real question is how far beyond 1080ti it goes. Already there are Nvidia pundits pushing the coming of Volta, with it's architecture that looks like GCN. Not surprising with SM6.0 based around GCN2. Nvidia are probably desperate to unload Pascal's while they still can, then have owners upgrade to Volta just to support everything within a year.
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You really can't be serious, can you? One I have yet to see it surpass a 1080ti, secondly we already know Volta will be out within a year, so not exactly a grand conspiracy for NVIDIA to want people to buy their new product 15-24 months after releasing their last one.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
Yet here we are with a plethora of performance enhancing driver features now known to not be currently enabled and Vega64 is already ahead of 1080ti in some tests. Wishful thinking was assuming a superior architecture on paper wouldn't pass the inferior one when fully enabled. The real question is how far beyond 1080ti it goes. Already there are Nvidia pundits pushing the coming of Volta, with it's architecture that looks like GCN. Not surprising with SM6.0 based around GCN2. Nvidia are probably desperate to unload Pascal's while they still can, then have owners upgrade to Volta just to support everything within a year.
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Well wake me up when it is fully enable Vega that thrashes 1080ti in every gaming benchmark, other wise you are just a person who has a lot of wishful thinking.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
Yet here we are with a plethora of performance enhancing driver features now known to not be currently enabled and Vega64 is already ahead of 1080ti in some tests. Wishful thinking was assuming a superior architecture on paper wouldn't pass the inferior one when fully enabled. The real question is how far beyond 1080ti it goes. Already there are Nvidia pundits pushing the coming of Volta, with it's architecture that looks like GCN. Not surprising with SM6.0 based around GCN2. Nvidia are probably desperate to unload Pascal's while they still can, then have owners upgrade to Volta just to support everything within a year.
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And you had AMD pundits for over a year now wanting Vega......

Come on nothing is going to save Vega at this point. Can't even call what you stated wishful thinking its down right delusional. There are medications for that ;)

GCN is only superior in one category, its really good at using more power and giving less performance while doing so. Great achievement by AMD.

Volta does not look like GCN AT ALL.

Sorry but no where near. Its not like AMD was first at anything, they just follow and the only time they EVER took a lead in CPU or GPU (even with ATI) is when the competitors screwed up or didn't innovate. History just repeated itself, rinse and repeat.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
Yet here we are with a plethora of performance enhancing driver features now known to not be currently enabled and Vega64 is already ahead of 1080ti in some tests. Wishful thinking was assuming a superior architecture on paper wouldn't pass the inferior one when fully enabled. The real question is how far beyond 1080ti it goes. Already there are Nvidia pundits pushing the coming of Volta, with it's architecture that looks like GCN. Not surprising with SM6.0 based around GCN2. Nvidia are probably desperate to unload Pascal's while they still can, then have owners upgrade to Volta just to support everything within a year.
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lol that statement should reported as blatant trolling..
 
Araxie said:
lol that statement should reported as blatant trolling..
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Ya can't call trolling, he believes it will happen lol.

BTW Anarchist, did you see what nV's goals were on an SM level for Volta? yeah 50% improvement on power efficiency. Ya know what that means at current power envelopes they are expecting 100% performance improvement. Ya think GCN can do that....... on a modified 14nm node? They couldn't do that even if they had the R&D to do it. GCN just won't be able to do that.

You think Navi can do that? Pretty lofty expectations from RTG, when they are having so many troubles with getting their hardware functional, as you so aptly put.
 
I'm totally on board with thinking there will be some incremental improvements over time, and that Vega is a serviceable card, if a bit power hungry.

But AC4k - you've gone full delusional at this point. That post is just utter nonsense and I have to think you know it.
 
razor1 said:
Its not like AMD was first at anything, they just follow and the only time they EVER took a lead in CPU or GPU (even with ATI) is when the competitors screwed up or didn't innovate. History just repeated itself, rinse and repeat.
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AMD has innovated, and led the pack. These are some examples:

AMD was the first with x64 for CPU

AMD x2 was far superior to Intel for a time.

Threadripper is far better than anything Intel curently offers in the consumer space anywhere close to the same price

Ryzen is far more power efficient than similarly configured Intel

AMD 290x was better than Nvidia at the time

AMD GPUs hit above their weight class in new dx12 and Vulcan now.

AMD did with freesync in free software drivers what Nvidia did with gsync but without the $200-$300 hardware.

Crossfire works/scales better than SLI - has for the last several generations.

AMD GPU has been better at compute for several generations -- at most any given price point.

AMD supports portrait/landscape/portrait three monitor configuration in hardware for gaming where Nvidia still doesn't do so. (That's why I moved to AMD a couple years back after 15 years straight of Nvidia ).
 
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PhaseNoise said:
I'm totally on board with thinking there will be some incremental improvements over time, and that Vega is a serviceable card, if a bit power hungry.

But AC4k - you've gone full delusional at this point. That post is just utter nonsense and I have to think you know it.
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I'm convinced he/she is a parody account to make AMD fans look bad.
 
PhaseNoise said:
I'm totally on board with thinking there will be some incremental improvements over time, and that Vega is a serviceable card, if a bit power hungry.

But AC4k - you've gone full delusional at this point. That post is just utter nonsense and I have to think you know it.
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definitely there will be some improvements, like always, I do expect Vega 64 to compete better with the gtx 1080 as drivers improve. I don't think nV has much left to push any more performance out of Pascal through drivers at this point at least not for current games.
 
Archaea said:
AMD has innovated, and not always just lagged behind. These are some examples.

AMD was the first with x64 for CPU

AMD x2 was far superior to Intel for a time.

Threadripper is far better than anything Intel curently offers in the consumer space anywhere close to the same price

Ryzen is far more power efficient than similarly configured Intel

AMD 290x was better than Nvidia at the time

AMD GPUs hit above their weight class in new dx12 and Vulcan now.

AMD did with freesync what Nvidia did with gsync but without the $200-$300 hardware.

Crossfire works better than SLI - has for the last several generations.

AMD has been better at compute for several generations in any given price point.

AMD is supports portrait/landscape/portrait monitor configured in hardware where Nvidia still doesn't do so
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Both Intel and AMD went to x64 at the same time, Intel took the wrong route, they fucked up, thus AMD took the lead. This was influenced by MS at the end. It was a business decision on MS's end that sealed Intel's fate. Which was a smart decision; if they went with Intel, their entire software stack of x86 would have been gone and they would have been in worse place than their competitors, Linux, Apple.

Ryzen is not far more power efficient. can't look at TDP numbers and assume they are the same. Actually real world Intel and AMD are really close in terms of power consumption with performance.

290x was power hungry again, and did not take a commanding lead.

Freesync vs Gsync, there are differences, and that is why Freesync 2 when ever it will come out , will have a tax too.

Crossfire and SLi both suck now.

AMD is not better at compute, any program that uses CUDA as its base, runs circles around its Open CL version. Even when AMD had such an advantage of pure compute of 100%. Why do you think CUDA was picked up rapidly, and HSA is still no where. The performance programmers can get their hands on is easy to do with nV products via CUDA, can't do that with Open Cl currently. This is why the CUDA miners starting showing up and they are kicking the Open Cl miners, hard.
Just because AMD hardware has more CU's, it doesn't mean they can be used effeciently. And this is the problem with GCN, their shader array is not being used as effective as nV's. How else do you see a card with over 10 TFlops (Vega 56) edging out a 1070 which has 6 Tflops, this is without CUDA.

Back to CUDA miners vs Open Cl miners, Eth is perfect example the 1070 and rx 580 both have around the same TFLOPs, both have similar bandwidth once overclocked. and the 1070 does better by 10%. Without even considering power draw (max hash rates on Claymore miner), the 1070 as an architecture is more efficient at using its shader units. Its all about utilization and through put. Now if you look at coins that aren't memory bound, oh man, the difference is staggering, looking at close to 70% difference in hashrates in favor of the 1070! This has nothing to do with the hardware. It has everything to do with with the software. rx580 shouldn't be the much less.....

Last one yeah that is nice for AMD.
 
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Araxie said:
lol that statement should reported as blatant trolling..
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No, I think in some productivity benchmarks it beat the 1080 Ti handily. The 1080 Ti had a nice lead in CAD from what I remember. I don't feel like looking it up again. I did link it some pages back.

In a few games that HardwareUnBoxed ran yesterday in their 32 game shootout, the Vega 64 watercooled edition was nipping at its heels. I think Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War III was one of them. Maybe a 5 frame difference between the Vega 64 and 1080 Ti.

But otherwise the 1080 Ti was kicking ass and chewing bubblegum.
 
cageymaru said:
No, I think in some productivity benchmarks it beat the 1080 Ti handily. The 1080 Ti had a nice lead in CAD from what I remember. I don't feel like looking it up again. I did link it some pages back.

In a few games that HardwareUnBoxed ran yesterday in their 32 game shootout, the Vega 64 watercooled edition was nipping at its heels. I think Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War III was one of them. Maybe a 5 frame difference between the Vega 64 and 1080 Ti.

But otherwise the 1080 Ti was kicking ass and chewing bubblegum.
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And it was all out of gum.
 
cageymaru said:
No, I think in some productivity benchmarks it beat the 1080 Ti handily. The 1080 Ti had a nice lead in CAD from what I remember. I don't feel like looking it up again. I did link it some pages back.

In a few games that HardwareUnBoxed ran yesterday in their 32 game shootout, the Vega 64 watercooled edition was nipping at its heels. I think Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War III was one of them. Maybe a 5 frame difference between the Vega 64 and 1080 Ti.

But otherwise the 1080 Ti was kicking ass and chewing bubblegum.
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That would not surprise me as it is clearly a better compute card than the ti, but that is still not the same ballpark as gaming. Looking at their review Doom Vulkan at 1440, which should be a Vega best case sceneriogame, hat the 1080ti 30fps higher then it and it was hitting Dooms 200fps cap so who knows how much higher might have actually gone.
 
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