Valve Removing Paid Mods.

LuMiZoiD

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"A representative from Valve has announced that the company will remove Steam Workshop's controversial paid mods functionality. In a post today, Valve employee Alden Kroll confirmed that the functionality will be removed, and all customers who have paid for mods will be refunded. The move has been made with Bethesda's blessing, Kroll added."

LINK:

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

Dun dun dun!!
 

MaZa

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After reading comments on nexus the whole day i had come to conclusion that paid mods for truly professional stuff might be good. But not with those cuts Beth tried to leech! I am glad they pulled a plug but it will certainly come back on next TES or Fallout game, hopefully with some god damn sense this time.

I have to mention that while people opposing the idea went way overboard with the hate some modders reaction, now that Beth pulled the plug, is downright stupid and obviously greedy. Jesus man, TES modding has been around more than a decade and possible money came into play less than week ago and since that option was put to hibernation you are claiming that modding scene is ruined for them even though you were just fine before?

On a second thought maybe bringing money into the equation is bad afterall. Even just the taste of it seems to turn even creative and skilled people stupid.
 
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zamardii12

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I am still really confused as to what happened with this. Am I correct in assuming that if I have a mod and wanted to put it up on the Steam Workshop that I would have the option to post it for free? Or am I wrong? Something about this doesn't make sense. So, if I as a modder make something I want to make money on I can put it up on Steam and I get a portion of the revenue if it sells.

Now, correct me if i'm wrong but regardless of how much I get (share) it's still better than getting nothing right? I could have made my mod, really thought it was great and release it onto Steam and make some money for my hard work but if I wanted to make it free and let the community enjoy it without getting paid I could do that to?

Honestly it's hard for me to believe that this ever would have taken free mods out of the equation and honestly I don't care how much Bethesda/Valve want to take b/c the other alternative is that it could have been free. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing (if profit is a goal of course).
 

dmonkey

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I am still really confused as to what happened with this. Am I correct in assuming that if I have a mod and wanted to put it up on the Steam Workshop that I would have the option to post it for free? Or am I wrong? Something about this doesn't make sense. So, if I as a modder make something I want to make money on I can put it up on Steam and I get a portion of the revenue if it sells.

Now, correct me if i'm wrong but regardless of how much I get (share) it's still better than getting nothing right? I could have made my mod, really thought it was great and release it onto Steam and make some money for my hard work but if I wanted to make it free and let the community enjoy it without getting paid I could do that to?

Honestly it's hard for me to believe that this ever would have taken free mods out of the equation and honestly I don't care how much Bethesda/Valve want to take b/c the other alternative is that it could have been free. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing (if profit is a goal of course).

Well, we can't have nice things with drooling tards comprising the "cornmunity".
 

H-street

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I am still really confused as to what happened with this. Am I correct in assuming that if I have a mod and wanted to put it up on the Steam Workshop that I would have the option to post it for free? Or am I wrong? Something about this doesn't make sense. So, if I as a modder make something I want to make money on I can put it up on Steam and I get a portion of the revenue if it sells.

Now, correct me if i'm wrong but regardless of how much I get (share) it's still better than getting nothing right? I could have made my mod, really thought it was great and release it onto Steam and make some money for my hard work but if I wanted to make it free and let the community enjoy it without getting paid I could do that to?

Honestly it's hard for me to believe that this ever would have taken free mods out of the equation and honestly I don't care how much Bethesda/Valve want to take b/c the other alternative is that it could have been free. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing (if profit is a goal of course).


This is just a case of the typically PC community KneeJerk reaction

this type of model has been around since the dawn of time with regards to Simulator type games on the PC.. Falcon 4.0 had paid Cockpit Mods etc.. etc., look at any of the Train simulator games and they have paid mods adding trains, items, landscapes etc.. Some are free, some are Paid..

IMO it was a great thing, the PC Community screams about Mod support in games, well here was our chance to actually make it attractive to developers/publishers to allow modding of their games (free and paid)..

So good Job everyone - you just tightened the ever present noose on modding..
 

piscian18

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11,021
I am still really confused as to what happened with this. Am I correct in assuming that if I have a mod and wanted to put it up on the Steam Workshop that I would have the option to post it for free? Or am I wrong? Something about this doesn't make sense. So, if I as a modder make something I want to make money on I can put it up on Steam and I get a portion of the revenue if it sells.

Now, correct me if i'm wrong but regardless of how much I get (share) it's still better than getting nothing right? I could have made my mod, really thought it was great and release it onto Steam and make some money for my hard work but if I wanted to make it free and let the community enjoy it without getting paid I could do that to?

Honestly it's hard for me to believe that this ever would have taken free mods out of the equation and honestly I don't care how much Bethesda/Valve want to take b/c the other alternative is that it could have been free. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing (if profit is a goal of course).

You can still do free mods I believe. The main problem was that anyone could steal your work and upload it taking credit and profit. This isn't a big deal at places like nexus mods but ever since steam started greenlight and early access steam has been taken over by vultures. Basically steam would end being an awesome resource for every mod on the planet but unfortunately all the money would go to the IP, valve and thieves.


Then there is a ton of issues with content support and rights. That was the nail in the coffin. Jim sterling and a couple other have full articles and videos detailing all the problems.

One of the rioting points was a ton of mods are for broken games that the developer and publisher did fuck all to support. The complaint was that those mutherfuckers don't deserve a single dime.
 

MavericK

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This is just a case of the typically PC community KneeJerk reaction

this type of model has been around since the dawn of time with regards to Simulator type games on the PC.. Falcon 4.0 had paid Cockpit Mods etc.. etc., look at any of the Train simulator games and they have paid mods adding trains, items, landscapes etc.. Some are free, some are Paid..

IMO it was a great thing, the PC Community screams about Mod support in games, well here was our chance to actually make it attractive to developers/publishers to allow modding of their games (free and paid)..

So good Job everyone - you just tightened the ever present noose on modding..

No, this was poorly-implemented at best, and a downright legal/moral nightmare at worst.
 

zamardii12

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You can still do free mods I believe. The main problem was that anyone could steal your work and upload it taking credit and profit. This isn't a big deal at places like nexus mods but ever since steam started greenlight and early access steam has been taken over by vultures. Basically steam would end being an awesome resource for every mod on the planet but unfortunately all the money would go to the IP, valve and thieves.

1. Having a paid eco-system for Steam mods would mean more quality control right (maybe not right away, but as it matured)? Unless Steam wants to bury itself. I mean, not all stores are great but getting better with time. Have you seen the Microsoft Store lately? In this case, I don't think people gave it a fair chance.

Then there is a ton of issues with content support and rights. That was the nail in the coffin. Jim sterling and a couple other have full articles and videos detailing all the problems.

One of the rioting points was a ton of mods are for broken games that the developer and publisher did fuck all to support. The complaint was that those mutherfuckers don't deserve a single dime.

2. Then... don't buy them? Problem solved...

Solutions above.

No, this was poorly-implemented at best, and a downright legal/moral nightmare at worst.

How exactly was this a moral issue? Was anybody being forced to buy anything? Only thing that changed was that modders who work really hard on their stuff and want to make some money are screwed. Of course there's going to be people AT FIRST who take advantage of the system, but given enough time the problems will resolve. Nobody even gave it a fucking chance. As soon as people heard "paid mods" on the PC platform, everybody got butt-hurt not realizing that it only gives incentives for people to create higher quality stuff and people who are actually trying to create great content can get paid for their hard work. There are more garbage apps than great apps on every store-front.

Remember how steam introduced that gems thing not too long ago? A day after somebody found a exploit and was exploiting the system, they shut it down for a couple days to fix the issue and it came back up. That's what happens with new stuff and new ideas. Now there is no incentive for skilled modders/developers to create content beyond the normal life of a game. And with Steam expanding into the living room now, this would have been a great one-up on Sony and Microsoft for living room competition. That not only can the original game developers create DLC and mods, but now on Steam you would have a whole slew of dedicated people making mods too and don't have to rely on the developer to create them.

The PC community just shot themselves in the foot. Could the paid-mod thing have been improved? Sure. Was it flawed at the onset? Sure. Did it need to be scrapped altogether? No.
 
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MaZa

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Solutions above.

How exactly was this a moral issue? Was anybody being forced to buy anything? Only thing that changed was that modders who work really hard on their stuff and want to make some money are screwed. Of course there's going to be people AT FIRST who take advantage of the system, but given enough time the problems will resolve. Nobody even gave it a fucking chance. As soon as people heard "paid mods" on the PC platform, everybody got butt-hurt not realizing that it only gives incentives for people to create higher quality stuff and people who are actually trying to create great content can get paid for their hard work. There are more garbage apps than great apps on every store-front.

*snip*

The PC community just shot themselves in the foot. Could the paid-mod thing have been improved? Sure. Was it flawed at the onset? Sure. Did it need to be scrapped altogether? No.

Moral was probably poor choice of words but legal issues are true. Modding, being currently open source, relies heavily on copying and lending resources from each other (with permissions of course and a little kudos in the readme) and getting help from each other all the time. When money comes into the play, this may go out of the window. And certainly putting such mods that are already made behind the paywall afterwards would be impossible. And not to mention for bigger mods with a lot of people contributing to it, some more than others even if its just a few textures or voice lines, how is the money divided?


Point is that Beth and Valve were batshit insane for even thinking of implementing this on a game with already a big modding scene and thousands of huge ass mods. If this monetization would be a part of completely new game with fresh new modding scene then most of these problems are less of an issue since people can plan for it before hand. They really should have waited for the next big TES/FO game.
 

H-street

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No, this was poorly-implemented at best, and a downright legal/moral nightmare at worst.

lol did you even read my comment? this has been a proven system with Simulator type games.. it sounds like you are knee-jerking the same reaction that everyone else had without any thought or experience in it..

news Flash.. this type of system is already inplace and used for several games and is done quite successfully and it has not been a "legal" or "moral" issue. Infact in those instances the quality of the Mods are much higher for the "paid" version vs what is free..

and sure the legal issue is there, but the legal issue is there with the free mods. If someone uses another's work without authorization then it should be handled the same way as anything else. I'm sure this would have evolved into a similar issue as youtube or any other media that has the potential to steal anothers original work without permission..


Like I said, a system like this would have only promoted Modding instead developers and publishers just look at modding as a way to steal their DLC income..

So either way, modding has been going away little by little over the years and this was a way to make it attractive to developers/publishers that maybe having a moddable game would be an attractive feature.


What really sad, is the developers/publisher are already have a Paid Mod system with all those micro-DLCs.. why not give all the freelance modders the same system? it can do nothing but help us as a PC gaming community..
 

Litfod

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Moral was probably poor choice of words but legal issues are true. Modding, being currently open source, relies heavily on copying and lending resources from each other (with permissions of course and a little kudos in the readme) and getting help from each other all the time.

It's a bit rich of the mod "community" to use legality as a crutch when it's their own work at stake, while they'll happily ignore inconvenient truths about EULA or DMCA violation, the use of illegally obtained software or other materials to produce mods, or IP violations when commercial properties like Star Wars / Game of Thrones / whatever shit is crow-barred into some game.
 

Flogger23m

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This is just a case of the typically PC community KneeJerk reaction

this type of model has been around since the dawn of time with regards to Simulator type games on the PC.. Falcon 4.0 had paid Cockpit Mods etc.. etc., look at any of the Train simulator games and they have paid mods adding trains, items, landscapes etc.. Some are free, some are Paid..

IMO it was a great thing, the PC Community screams about Mod support in games, well here was our chance to actually make it attractive to developers/publishers to allow modding of their games (free and paid)..

So good Job everyone - you just tightened the ever present noose on modding..

There is a difference between modding and third party expansion development. You are essentially saying games like Half Life Opposing Force was a mod, or Leatherneck Simulation's DCS MIG-21 is a mod. This is not true; they are paid expansions.

If you can't see the difference between mods and expansion packs then you will probably not understand why the implementation Valve had for the program was poor.
 

H-street

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There is a difference between modding and third party expansion development. You are essentially saying games like Half Life Opposing Force was a mod, or Leatherneck Simulation's DCS MIG-21 is a mod. This is not true; they are paid expansions.

If you can't see the difference between mods and expansion packs then you will probably not understand why the implementation Valve had for the program was poor.

oh I understand the difference.. what you are doing is labeling anything that has a cost as an "expansion"

example

Falcon 4.0 paid Cockpit Mods

http://www.cockpits.nl/

freelance modder, payware cockpits (very good, high quality, some freeware mods - not as good as the pay)

Trainz (auran) is similar

http://rrmods.com/ freelance modders/expanders - notice the payware and freeware

this pretty much how the Simulation community operates and has operated for a long time.


DCS's very business model revolves around this very idea. Base game + paid for high quality expansions/mods. Because of this type of model they built their game highly modular.

and lets not even get into Micrsoft's Flight Sims, it is pretty much a never ending sea of payed for and freeware mods and expansions ( I even paid for a high-def Dallas area terrain for my FSX in the store on disk)

You can call them "paid expansions" but the truth is, they are paid mods..


Now lets look at Tombraider

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/31601/

Skins, Weapons, etc.. etc.. all paid for "mods" or "skip earning" type DLC
 
D

Deleted member 126051

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Modders looking to profit just took an arrow to the knee

I'm of two minds on this.

Pretty much ANYONE can turn out a crappy mod.

Pretty much ANYONE can turn out a mod "for the love of the game".

But if a venue is opened for someone to make building mods their DAY JOB, and they can turn out great stuff, what's the problem with paid mods? If you have a person or group putting in tens, hundreds, or possibly thousands of man-hours?

Or do some of you choose to forgo your paychecks at your place of employment, for the sheer exhilaration of working there?
 

Flogger23m

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oh I understand the difference.. what you are doing is labeling anything that has a cost as an "expansion"

example

Falcon 4.0 paid Cockpit Mods

http://www.cockpits.nl/

freelance modder, payware cockpits (very good, high quality, some freeware mods - not as good as the pay)

Trainz (auran) is similar

http://rrmods.com/ freelance modders/expanders - notice the payware and freeware

this pretty much how the Simulation community operates and has operated for a long time.


DCS's very business model revolves around this very idea. Base game + paid for high quality expansions/mods. Because of this type of model they built their game highly modular.

and lets not even get into Micrsoft's Flight Sims, it is pretty much a never ending sea of payed for and freeware mods and expansions ( I even paid for a high-def Dallas area terrain for my FSX in the store on disk)

You can call them "paid expansions" but the truth is, they are paid mods..


Now lets look at Tombraider

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/31601/

Skins, Weapons, etc.. etc.. all paid for "mods" or "skip earning" type DLC

Those are not mods. What you linked to are licensed expansions and official DLC (that wasn't even contracted out to a 3rd party). You may as well throw patches under your umbrella term for mods.

A "mod" is a modification made by someone (or multiple people) that are not officially working on the game. As in, they have no commercial license to work on it or sell content which requires another commercial product to work.

I know the dictionary definition of modification does not align exactly with the every day term "mod", but it is important to understand the difference between a mod, a licensed 3rd party content creator, and the main studio selling expansions / releasing patches.

Even the term "DLC" isn't always a logical term, because they often sell special edition boxed copies of games which include "DLC" or game of the year editions which include all "DLC".
 

twonunpackmule

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Honestly, I wanted paid mods if it means that the likelihood of things getting finished is increased. Black Mesa is a great mod. Those guys deserve money and it's great that they were able to get an eventual paid release. I've worried that it wouldn't get done because there is little incentive to complete it. Now, there's money involved. People that put in that effort will see some sort of compensation.

This also reminds me of the Dark Forces mod for Jedi Outcast. I would have loved to have seen that completed. However, asking someone to work on that mod without compensation is a lot to ask.

I'm not against Paid Mods. I think it was odd to be released with Skyrim. The game is kinda old and past it's "prime." Though, I guess it's the most popular title in the Steam Workshop. Anyway, I feel the kinks would have been worked out over time. Entitled Gamers ruined it.
 
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