Ubisoft

Pringle said:
"You guys" need to stop assuming he pirates anything. :rolleyes:
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Are you saying this in regard to the OP? If so, a cracked copy is not a pirated copy? Please do enlighten me on what it actually is then. :roll eyes:

Also, you don't support Piracy if you don't actually do it.
 
xIronCrossx said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theft

I believe a video game is a defined as the property of someone. We can play this game all day, toy around with definitions, in the end you are still depriving someone of revenue on something they produced/distributed.
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Since you apparently did not read the article I linked...it covers this issue quite specifically:

"Theft"

Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft. In copyright law, infringement does not refer to theft of physical objects that take away the owner's possession, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization.[11] Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft. For instance, the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, "interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: '[...] an infringer of the copyright.'" The court said that in the case of copyright infringement, the province guaranteed to the copyright holder by copyright law—certain exclusive rights—is invaded, but no control, physical or otherwise, is taken over the copyright, nor is the copyright holder wholly deprived of using the copyrighted work or exercising the exclusive rights held.[1]
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It's not "toying around with definitions" because there is no proof that you are depriving anyone of anything. The assumption that everyone who pirates a game would buy it is just flat-out wrong.
 
MavericK96 said:
It's not "toying around with definitions" because there is no proof that you are depriving anyone of anything. The assumption that everyone who pirates a game would buy it is just flat-out wrong.
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Fantastic logic to live by. That's like saying it's wrong to assume that robbers were going to buy anything, what does that solve? Nothing. If you aren't going to pay for what you use, you don't deserve to use it.
 
xIronCrossx said:
Fantastic logic to live by. That's like saying it's wrong to assume that robbers were going to buy anything, what does that solve? Nothing. If you aren't going to pay for what you use, you don't deserve to use it.
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But if you physically rob someone, you are depriving them of those materials. Your comparison is quite frankly asinine, as there is a huge difference between digitally copied materials and actual theft.

No one is defending piracy but to rant about it without even knowing the facts is just silly. There is a reason why the term "copyright infringement" exists.
 
MavericK96 said:
But if you physically rob someone, you are depriving them of those materials. Your comparison is quite frankly asinine, as there is a huge difference between digitally copied materials and actual theft.

No one is defending piracy but to rant about it without even knowing the facts is just silly. There is a reason why the term "copyright infringement" exists.
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Ehm ok. Think of a series such as GoT. HBO makes money by subscriptions, while the show continues to be relevant as long as there are enough viewers. So, in a way each viewer "contributes" to the revenue. Someone who pirates the show, is not included in this, which means less revenue. It's not a physical object per say, but it is still money. You lose money either way.
 
Look, I get what you are saying, but it is a logical fallacy. Using your example, you honestly think that people who pirate Game of Thrones would suddenly pay for cable plus HBO if they couldn't pirate it? Maybe a few, yeah, but I would bet my bottom dollar that 99% of those people would just go watch it with someone else, or not watch the show period. Likewise with other media...not having free access to things does not just drive people to buy them...many will just go without. Thus, the "depriving developers/artists/whoever of revenue" is, on the whole, not accurate. This is not even to speak of those who may pirate something, decide they like it, and buy the content because of it.
 
xIronCrossx said:
Are you saying this in regard to the OP? If so, a cracked copy is not a pirated copy? Please do enlighten me on what it actually is then. :roll eyes:

Also, you don't support Piracy if you don't actually do it.
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In regards to maverick, who decided to start a discussion about pirating, in turn you assumed he was a pirate.
 
Rusty4560 said:
I think people who pirate fall into 3 categories:

A. Too poor to buy the game in the first place and never will
B. Want to try the game and would not pay for it even if it wasn't available to pirate
C. Need to pirate just to play the game because of DRM issues (exp. No-CD crack)

Either way the argument that it takes money from the dev is not very valid.

I for one buy all my games. My steam library is over 200 games and I have plenty of physical media. But lets not kid ourselves that pirating is black and white and is always bad. The fact that you can't play single player on a game because of DRM is ludicrous and cracking it, is IMO, justified.


This DRM shit is also the reason console sales tend to beat PC.
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No.
Piracy stems from this sense of entitlement which is prevalent every where today.
"Wahhhhhhhhhhh, there's DRM, but it is my RIGHT to play this game dammit!"
"This game isn't worth $60 to me, they trashed the series, but it is my RIGHT to play it and since I determined it isn't worth paying for, I will just pirate it!"

Yeah, that's the reality, no matter how much you want to sugar coat it.
Most people probably started out with those nice A,B, and C, but this can quickly degenerate.

I am sure that there a plenty of people who will just pirate a game to try it out, but they are the minority here.
The majority are self-entitled idiots.
 
MavericK96 said:
But if you physically rob someone, you are depriving them of those materials. Your comparison is quite frankly asinine, as there is a huge difference between digitally copied materials and actual theft.

No one is defending piracy but to rant about it without even knowing the facts is just silly. There is a reason why the term "copyright infringement" exists.
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Isn't this nitpicking to a certain degree ... whether piracy is theft or copyright infringement it is definitely a crime ... and depending on the degree to which the copyright was violated it is punishable by both fine and prison (and should be ;) )
 
schoolslave said:
I am sure that there a plenty of people who will just pirate a game to try it out, but they are the minority here.
The majority are self-entitled idiots.
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Please show your data supporting this. :rolleyes:

It amazes me that there are people that defend these mega-corps that have record profits year to year despite "piracy crippling them so badly". Anytime I see someone spout the term "entitled consumer" I know that they have already won, by making people believe they don't deserve a good product for money spent. Piracy is a symptom, not a cause.
 
Pringle said:
In regards to maverick, who decided to start a discussion about pirating, in turn you assumed he was a pirate.
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You can be singular, or plural for you all. When I said you, I meant pirates in general on this site. I alluded to Maverick being one after your post accusing me of calling him one, but never directly said it.
 
lilbabycat said:
Please show your data supporting this. :rolleyes:

It amazes me that there are people that defend these mega-corps that have record profits year to year despite "piracy crippling them so badly". Anytime I see someone spout the term "entitled consumer" I know that they have already won, by making people believe they don't deserve a good product for money spent. Piracy is a symptom, not a cause.
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Here is something most people still can't get into their thick skulls. Video Games/Movies/TV/etc are all forms of entertainment, not a requirement. Stop treating it as something you(not directly at you specifically, since I need to specify this now..) NEED.

Call it siding with mega-corps if it makes you feel any better, but maybe it's just people actually buying smartly being pissed at people who cheat the system and don't pay for what they use.
 
xIronCrossx said:
Call it siding with mega-corps if it makes you feel any better, but maybe it's just people actually buying smartly being pissed at people who cheat the system and don't pay for what they use.
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Warning, rant:

When someone buys something and is disappointed, sometimes when they were outright lied to about features/content/etc, they become disgruntled. The company chuckles and has absolutely zero repercussions. That person then says "well F this, I'm going to pirate your trash and *if* I like it, I *might* buy it". Litigation, blaming the customer, citing lies about lost sales; this is the company trying to divert the attention from the bad product in the first place. That is the core cause of piracy. Either poor content or poor access to it. You solve that problem and people will gladly pay. Or is the success of Netflix not enough proof of that?

You can be pissed at some guy that got something for free that you paid for, but you should be pissed at the company that burned him somewhere down the line to make him feel justified in doing it.

To state that the majority of pirates are just "entitled" and "wouldn't and won't pay anyways" is absolutely a lie, unless you have data to prove it (no one does AFAIK); whereas data that says the opposite does exist.

The core problems of the entertainment industry need to be addressed. Modernization of copyright/IP/patent law (which bleeds over into every industry and is beyond ridiculous); further push for the death of artist-robbing producer/distributor deals (its going well so far), net neutrality; and a complete rework of the cable/satellite/content distribution system are all key factors to be addressed.

No consumer wants the cable tv model applied to the internet, but the big companies do.
No consumer wants to pay multiple times for the same content, but the big companies do.

And more directly to the subject, No informed consumer wants to pay $60 for something worth $20. The industry wants to keep consumers uninformed and ignorant "but it is worth $60 to me"; that argument becomes shakey when pre-sales of that title are $45 from the right place, $40 a month after, and $20 three months after.

One thing I personally think consumers would appreciate hugely is for the early adopter to be truly rewarded for being one. This is a problem that plagues the core of any sales industry. The early adopter is always screwed. No included DLC, no first day bragging rights, no special poster makes up for being treated as worthless once they get your money.

In WoW, people that are loyal subscribers for two, four, going on TEN years, they get a thank you email. The guy that subs for one month then quits? He gets offered a free mount, a free leveled character, free game time to come back

Cable / Cell subscribers? "Thanks for staying with us for two years, here's your rate increase"

First day game buyers? "We had unexpected load on our servers, we appreciate your patience while you aren't able to play our game" "We expect to have this core game breaking bug fixed with the next patch, which has no ETA".

This has been going on so long, so pervasively, its hard not to be absolutely pessimistic and cynical about any company, any release. (Keep in mind, I am the definition of cynical, but I don't see my thoughts as an exception, they are quickly becoming the norm)

I will continue to treat companies with no respect as long as they continue to treat me as such. Win me back with honesty, a good product, good support for good money. Until then, YARRR!

note: I am active netflix subscriber, which I am stopping soon to switch to Amazon Prime due to running out of content (House of Cards is pretty good so far though), and my steam library is 200+ titles, mostly from humble bundles and big sales. My average price I pay for a AAA title is $20 and indie $3. If any of that matters in your opinion of my opinion.
 
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lilbabycat said:
Warning, rant:

When someone buys something and is disappointed, sometimes when they were outright lied to about features/content/etc, they become disgruntled. The company chuckles and has absolutely zero repercussions. That person then says "well F this, I'm going to pirate your trash and *if* I like it, I *might* buy it". Litigation, blaming the customer, citing lies about lost sales; this is the company trying to divert the attention from the bad product in the first place. That is the core cause of piracy. Either poor content or poor access to it. You solve that problem and people will gladly pay. Or is the success of Netflix not enough proof of that?

You can be pissed at some guy that got something for free that you paid for, but you should be pissed at the company that burned him somewhere down the line to make him feel justified in doing it.

To state that the majority of pirates are just "entitled" and "wouldn't and won't pay anyways" is absolutely a lie, unless you have data to prove it (no one does AFAIK); whereas data that says the opposite does exist.

The core problems of the entertainment industry need to be addressed. Modernization of copyright/IP/patent law (which bleeds over into every industry and is beyond ridiculous); further push for the death of artist-robbing producer/distributor deals (its going well so far), net neutrality; and a complete rework of the cable/satellite/content distribution system are all key factors to be addressed.

No consumer wants the cable tv model applied to the internet, but the big companies do.
No consumer wants to pay multiple times for the same content, but the big companies do.

And more directly to the subject, No informed consumer wants to pay $60 for something worth $20. The industry wants to keep consumers uninformed and ignorant "but it is worth $60 to me"; that argument becomes shakey when pre-sales of that title are $45 from the right place, $40 a month after, and $20 three months after.

One thing I personally think consumers would appreciate hugely is for the early adopter to be truly rewarded for being one. This is a problem that plagues the core of any sales industry. The early adopter is always screwed. No included DLC, no first day bragging rights, no special poster makes up for being treated as worthless once they get your money.

In WoW, people that are loyal subscribers for two, four, going on TEN years, they get a thank you email. The guy that subs for one month then quits? He gets offered a free mount, a free leveled character, free game time to come back

Cable / Cell subscribers? "Thanks for staying with us for two years, here's your rate increase"

First day game buyers? "We had unexpected load on our servers, we appreciate your patience while you aren't able to play our game" "We expect to have this core game breaking bug fixed with the next patch, which has no ETA".

This has been going on so long, so pervasively, its hard not to be absolutely pessimistic and cynical about any company, any release. (Keep in mind, I am the definition of cynical, but I don't see my thoughts as an exception, they are quickly becoming the norm)

I will continue to treat companies with no respect as long as they continue to treat me as such. Win me back with honesty, a good product, good support for good money. Until then, YARRR!

note: I am active netflix subscriber, which I am stopping soon to switch to Amazon Prime due to running out of content (House of Cards is pretty good so far though), and my steam library is 200+ titles, mostly from humble bundles and big sales. My average price I pay for a AAA title is $20 and indie $3. If any of that matters in your opinion of my opinion.
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The one issue with this rant is you are eliminating certain choices that people have:

1. Buy sight unseen or based on reviews or preordering
2. Buy later after price drops or sales
3. Buy used (if that is an option)
4. Try a demo (IF ONE IS AVAILABLE)
5. DO NOT BUY

Some pirates want to argue that it is their right to a demo that allows them to pirate. They have no such right. If a company has burned them in the past they can wait or they can abstain from the purchase. Piracy is never an acceptable option. I think the accusation that some make about pirates being self entitled is this mistaken assumption of their right to try before they buy. There is no such right unless the company permits it.

There are a few franchises that I will buy sight unseen (but very few) ... and there are many titles I wouldn't take even if they were free ... a consumer has the right to choose what they will buy but they do not have a legal right to use any product without buying it (regardless of how they might have been treated in the past ;) )
 
Who are YOU to say what a game should cost?
Who are YOU to say how/why content should be delivered?

When you pirate, all that you are showing the "mega-corporations" is that you WANT the content.
By pirating, you are not indicating to the company that the pricing model, content delivery, actual content, etc are wrong, you are only indicating that you want the content.

If you do not want something, are dissatisfied, vote with your wallet.
There are plenty of people who do not buy EA/Activision games based on principles and do NOT pirate the content either. Those people can make a difference; even if it is small.

Note that I am basing this on my own observations (college student) of my peers.

Fact is, if you did not legally obtain a product (of any kind) you are in no way entitled to using it!
 
So we've gone over the whole "downloading a game" is bad topic. What about cracking one to avoid its DRM? One you've already purchased?

Yay or nay?
 
xIronCrossx said:
Here is something most people still can't get into their thick skulls. Video Games/Movies/TV/etc are all forms of entertainment, not a requirement. Stop treating it as something you(not directly at you specifically, since I need to specify this now..) NEED.
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That sounds like a cop out meant to minimize any expectation a consumer has simply because it's not something they need to survive(life without entertainment would be pretty dull though). I'm not saying it's right to use complaints as a justification for pirating but complaints are no less valid just because it's something that's not needed.

True piracy(not try before you buy or downloading a DRM free copy of a game you own) is wrong but it's also not theft and calling it that implies many negative things that simply don't apply to piracy.
 
schoolslave said:
No.
Piracy stems from this sense of entitlement which is prevalent every where today.
"Wahhhhhhhhhhh, there's DRM, but it is my RIGHT to play this game dammit!"
"This game isn't worth $60 to me, they trashed the series, but it is my RIGHT to play it and since I determined it isn't worth paying for, I will just pirate it!"

Yeah, that's the reality, no matter how much you want to sugar coat it.
Most people probably started out with those nice A,B, and C, but this can quickly degenerate.

I am sure that there a plenty of people who will just pirate a game to try it out, but they are the minority here.
The majority are self-entitled idiots.
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Quoted for truth.

schoolslave said:
Who are YOU to say what a game should cost?
Who are YOU to say how/why content should be delivered?

When you pirate, all that you are showing the "mega-corporations" is that you WANT the content.
By pirating, you are not indicating to the company that the pricing model, content delivery, actual content, etc are wrong, you are only indicating that you want the content.

If you do not want something, are dissatisfied, vote with your wallet.
There are plenty of people who do not buy EA/Activision games based on principles and do NOT pirate the content either. Those people can make a difference; even if it is small.

Note that I am basing this on my own observations (college student) of my peers.

Fact is, if you did not legally obtain a product (of any kind) you are in no way entitled to using it!
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And quoted for truth.
 
Uplay is the WORST POS I've ever encountered. If i know a game is ubisoft I bypass it no matter the appeal.

rather play origin or windows live over uplay.
 
The rants the pirates in here go on are hilarious. They'll do anything to spin facts to make their actions look legitimate. Classic defense lawyer tactics. I hope nobody is actually taking them seriously.

You are not entitled to content that costs money that you did not create or own unless you pay for it. Period. It doesn't belong to you. They didn't make it for free.

I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

The sooner you accept the fact that you're a scumbag that can't afford or doesn't want to pay for the digital entertainment you seek, the better.
 
chalmer9 said:
He admitted he stole the game already, and played it twice. I have 0 sympathy for him now buying the game and having some issues. Would it have happened anyway if he hadn't stole the game? Yes, but too bad, don't steal shit.
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You make no sense what-so-ever. In fact, you're almost saying in a way that it's better to just pirate the game since that version works instead of paying money.

What you fail to see here is the real problem. DRM is such a PITA that it's easier to just steal the damn software to avoid it.
 
chalmer9 said:
The rants the pirates in here go on are hilarious. They'll do anything to spin facts to make their actions look legitimate. Classic defense lawyer tactics. I hope nobody is actually taking them seriously.

You are not entitled to content that costs money that you did not create or own unless you pay for it. Period. It doesn't belong to you. They didn't make it for free.

I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

The sooner you accept the fact that you're a scumbag that can't afford or doesn't want to pay for the digital entertainment you seek, the better.
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No one said they were a pirate (except the OP who sort of implied it), and no one said piracy wasn't wrong. Your rant is misdirected and comes off as arrogant, frankly.

The facts are:

Piracy is wrong
Piracy is not theft
 
MavericK96 said:
No one said they were a pirate (except the OP who sort of implied it), and no one said piracy wasn't wrong. Your rant is misdirected and comes off as arrogant, frankly.

The facts are:

Piracy is wrong
Piracy is not theft
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Ok, great.
 
MavericK96 said:
No one said they were a pirate (except the OP who sort of implied it), and no one said piracy wasn't wrong. Your rant is misdirected and comes off as arrogant, frankly.

The facts are:

Piracy is wrong
Piracy is not theft
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Piracy IS theft if the pirate would have purchased the product otherwise.
 
Remember the good old days of swapping Atari cartridges with your family and friends? we were all criminals! :rolleyes:

The problem is all the hoops you now have to jump through to play the game you purchased.

I don't mind buying a game and activating it like windows but being forced to have starforce or some other DRM install on your computer is the entire reason people are forced to look for hacks and patches.

I don't want to have to do that so the game plays and if I want to make an ISO for a DVD check with software I bought I should be allowed to do so.

I also do not want to have to ping the internet to get authorization to play it either.

Making it easier to update the game patch wise would be helpful as well to keep it current, it's not always so easy to do.
 
ep0x73 said:
Remember the good old days of swapping Atari cartridges with your family and friends? we were all criminals! :rolleyes:

The problem is all the hoops you now have to jump through to play the game you purchased.

I don't mind buying a game and activating it like windows but being forced to have starforce or some other DRM install on your computer is the entire reason people are forced to look for hacks and patches.

I don't want to have to do that so the game plays and if I want to make an ISO for a DVD check with software I bought I should be allowed to do so.

I also do not want to have to ping the internet to get authorization to play it either.

Making it easier to update the game patch wise would be helpful as well to keep it current, it's not always so easy to do.
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Then don't buy the game.
 
I'd have more respect for pirates if they'd just admit they don't want to buy anything and would rather steal it. If you say it's not stealing, f**k you.
 
Maximus825 said:
Then don't buy the game.
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So you should not buy a game that you want because the douchebags have to put DRM on it that forces you to bend to their rules?
Once I buy it's now my property, I should not have to beg them to let me use it.

I don't find that a very good solution.

But you are right, many will not buy the game, they will get a pirated copy and thus the company will lose revenue.

They create some of their own problems.
 
ep0x73 said:
So you should not buy a game that you want because the douchebags have to put DRM on it that forces you to bend to their rules?
Once I buy it's now my property, I should not have to beg them to let me use it.

I don't find that a very good solution.

But you are right, many will not buy the game, they will get a pirated copy and thus the company will lose revenue.

They create some of their own problems.
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You want to play a game, then agree to their terms of purchase or go without, don't take the childish thief route and say you're going to just take it :rolleyes:. You create the problem, yourself. And then you wonder why developers are cautious of people like you........... Hilarious.
 
Wrong, people would not be forced to pirate games if they were not forced to beg the companies to allow them to play it or make a copy in what should be considered your bought and paid for property.

If you buy a new BMW do they tell you how many miles you can put on it in a year? nope.

You own it and you can do whatever you wish.
 
ep0x73 said:
Wrong, people would not be forced to pirate games if they were not forced to beg the companies to allow them to play it or make a copy in what should be considered your bought and paid for property.

If you buy a new BMW do they tell you how many miles you can put on it in a year? nope.

You own it and you can do whatever you wish.
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You are a clueless human being. Keep posting please.
 
Looks like your the clueless one if you like being told what you can and cannot do with your own property so stop posting.

What is so damn hard to which they simply offer a 16 digit install code just as windows retail and skip all the DRM bullshit you do not need or never asked for.

Go read up about how Starforce has led to serious instabilities and some AV's even have flagged it as malware.
SecuROM is not much better either.

I never suggested you make copies and give them away or sell them but once you own it you sure in hell should be able to make your own copies or create and ISO so you can mount it yourself.

I have no issues with CD-checks or an activation code but leave the DRM out of it, it's unnecessary.
 
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