Uber Says No Guns In Cars

that is the death kneel of a company. Someone who gives rides away on nights of drunken parties but then expects you paint a target on everyone getting out of one of their drivers's car... lol so much for that service.

Since I am not a big fan of these independent services I would actually like it if they went out of business (but I don't think this is what will do it) ... if I need a taxi I take a taxi ... I don't want some loser moonlighting to earn a few bucks who might not have insurance driving me home
 
I think we are going on a tangent ... almost all of the constitutional protections apply to the USA government and not corporations ...
I'm not sure where you got that idea but it's absolutely false. Corporations are provided the same rights as humans and are not exempt from those rights either.
 
I'll just add this to my list of reasons not to use Uber and drive on.

Also note they can only revoke your ability to use the service if you are discovered. Big deal. Keep it concealed and everyone wins.....

:D
 
Using this graph why do you feel the need to arm yourself is so few deaths are a result of mass shootings or murders in general? You are protecting yourself against the .0001%?
1) Its been a popular hobby of mine since I was 8 years old and got my first rifle going hunting with my dad
2) Its better to have it and not need it, as I've been driving since I was 16 years old and have never once needed my seatbelt or airbag and probably never will, but its not inconvenient to have it.
3) I like the feeling, knowing I could defend my family from harm, kind of like people like the feeling of buying a lottery ticket imagining how they'd spend the money even if its an unlikely event.
As far as who gets guns and who doesnt, if criminals can so easily obtain a firearm then how come all crimes arent committed with firearms? I mean what guy would just to break into a house armed with a knife and crowbar instead of the easily available 9mm he supposedly can just pick up from the local crack dealer on the block?
Well, many do (stats I find say 40%), but quite possibly some don't because they are being cheap and are only interested in stealing merchandise and not in the greater penalty of armed burglary or worse murder charges if that isn't their intent.
And if you think this country is ready for 100% of law abiding citizens to walk around armed you're out of your mind. This aint the wild west anymore.
We have seen crime rates drop in every locality that has relaxed gun control laws, so there hasn't been a negative effect. You also don't require 100% of the population to be armed to achieve herd immunity. Criminals have very short careers if every 10th victim shoots them, and the risk reward ratio becomes hugely unfavorable. Accordingly, as I have shown we have seen a reduction in violent crime far below most of that of say the United Kingdom, as criminals end up shot or give up that option when friends are shot. Part of the reason that we see these flash mobs attacking people and looting is that they believe (rightfully so) that there are no repercussions for their actions at the moment. I bet if the first store owner jumped on his roof with an AK with the support of the community to defend his business, that crowd would have dispersed right away and given up that idea.

And there's no hypothetical, again ITS ALREADY HAPPENED! Many states have reduced gun control laws, and not only did crime not go up, it went down. Is it cause and effect? Maybe not, but we can certainly show that more guns doesn't equal more crime, and CHL holder statistics show that the murder rate is not just HALF the average person or a FOURTH the average person but a whopping SIXTEENTH the average person, and even THREE TIMES LOWER than police officers (who are supposedly so trustworthy).

The numbers are in black and white.
 
This seems a bit silly. Uber doesn't inspect their drivers (so they won't know if you have a gun or not anyway). Any situation where you would actually need to use your gun, you're probably not going to care if you are violating Uber policy or not. Even if you have to use your gun, who is going to tell Uber about it? The criminal you needed to pull your gun on?
 
I'm not sure where you got that idea but it's absolutely false. Corporations are provided the same rights as humans and are not exempt from those rights either.

What I meant is that the government cannot regulate free speech ... but a company can control what their employees can do and say (while on company time ... sometimes even when not on company time) ... the government cannot prosecute you without following a number of restrictions but a company can fire you for any reason and is not obligated to give you a hearing ... and ultimately on this topic, the government has difficulties managing guns due to constitutional restrictions on their power but a corporation can ban guns on their premises or used by their employees on company time ... just because a right is guaranteed by the constitution that does not mean it is binding in non government interactions

As I said, I think this is more about liability than anything else ... let all the Uber drivers sign an indemnification clause as part of their employment ... make an indemnification clause part of the sign up Ts and Cs for the users as well ... problem solved since no one can sue Uber and I suspect they will not care about a gun ban at that point ... good for them, good for the drivers, and good for the consumers (everybody wins)
 
This seems a bit silly. Uber doesn't inspect their drivers (so they won't know if you have a gun or not anyway). Any situation where you would actually need to use your gun, you're probably not going to care if you are violating Uber policy or not. Even if you have to use your gun, who is going to tell Uber about it? The criminal you needed to pull your gun on?
Well, that's a good point. Worst case scenario if the driver is forced to defend herself or himself, they lose their job, but a lot better than losing your life. But like you say, the overwhelming majority of such assaults are actually ended with mere brandishing the threat of deadly force, without a shot needing to be fired. For example, recently a passerby happened to notice four gang members attacking a victim, and merely pulling his gun was enough to stop the assault and prevent it from going any further without a shot fired.
 
Well, that's a good point. Worst case scenario if the driver is forced to defend herself or himself, they lose their job, but a lot better than losing your life. But like you say, the overwhelming majority of such assaults are actually ended with mere brandishing the threat of deadly force, without a shot needing to be fired. For example, recently a passerby happened to notice four gang members attacking a victim, and merely pulling his gun was enough to stop the assault and prevent it from going any further without a shot fired.

Yes, Uber driver fired, and the passenger sues the shit out of Uber. Win-win, right?
 
You are protecting yourself against the .0001%?
That's terribly inaccurate. Self-defense is quite high in this country higher than the "murder" rate. There is an estimated 67,000 self-defense incident according to the anti-gun Violence Policy Center involving a firearm every year which is a 0.02% chance of being involved in one. I rather see the death of a criminal than the death of a victim.
 
More statistics. The CDC/Institute of Medicine/National Research Council found that defensive use of a gun by victims was just as equal of an offensive use by criminals. So they estimated that 500,000 to 3 million incidents involving a firearm for self-defense which apparently was by a pro-gun publication (a 0.15% chance to 0.9% chance of being part of a self-defense incident). So other people chimed in and whittled that down to 108,000 times per year which is about a 0.03% chance. So it really depends on how you interpret self-defense. Being a murder victim has a extremely unlikely probability but you're more likely to be involved in a self-defense incident however.
 
If you want your government to be able to overthrow you, be my guest.

If the second amendment is in place to allow citizens to overthrow the government my question is .... well .... why haven't you?

- Multiple illegal wars of aggression
- Massive domestic wiretapping and surveillance programs
- Corporate bailouts using taxpayer money
- Ever increasing income inequity
- A government controlled by lobbyists
- Extreme partisan politics

How much worse does it need to get?
 
If the second amendment is in place to allow citizens to overthrow the government my question is .... well .... why haven't you?

- Multiple illegal wars of aggression
- Massive domestic wiretapping and surveillance programs
- Corporate bailouts using taxpayer money
- Ever increasing income inequity
- A government controlled by lobbyists
- Extreme partisan politics

How much worse does it need to get?

Because your average mob of people couldn't organize a bake sale let alone removing and setting up a new government lol.
 
If the second amendment is in place to allow citizens to overthrow the government my question is .... well .... why haven't you?
Well, I didn't have time before, but now that Game of Thrones season finale aired, I may have more free time.
 
I have taken steps to starting our own local militia. We set up a training facility and shooting range. Working on getting my own professional firearms training now. Magpul offers courses regularly for a variety of different weapon systems.
http://www.magpulcore.com/training
Its more of a way to train and become familiar with our local community then anything.
 
If the second amendment is in place to allow citizens to overthrow the government my question is .... well .... why haven't you?

- Multiple illegal wars of aggression
- Massive domestic wiretapping and surveillance programs
- Corporate bailouts using taxpayer money
- Ever increasing income inequity
- A government controlled by lobbyists
- Extreme partisan politics

How much worse does it need to get?

Because people aren't directly affected or touched. Going into their homes and taking their guns? They'd fight back against a direct aggression.

Remember the rancher in Nevada? There was a good militia there. Not a shot fired, but they were there, ready to fight the oppressors. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cliven-bundy-nevada-rancher-standoff-turns-on-a-states-rights-debate/

It can happen. People do take up arms if it gets serious enough. But, the things you listed above can still be handled (at least it's viewed that way) with politics and diplomacy. Once they start coming into your home and breaking the 4th amendment to destroy the 2nd, it'll be a whole different story.
 
Probably has more to do with liability on the part of Uber, than it has to do with anyone's stance on gun control.

In the unlikely event either a driver or passenger commits some sort of gun related crime, Uber doesn't want to get sued for it.

That's their motivation right there.


We can rehash the gun argument all day long. We're about evenly split on this forum, and I've heard all the tired arguments on both sides of the issue before.

If anyone cares what I think, this pretty much sums it up. All the same points I would have made, but this guy is way funnier while making them :p
 
Because people aren't directly affected or touched. Going into their homes and taking their guns? They'd fight back against a direct aggression.

Remember the rancher in Nevada? There was a good militia there. Not a shot fired, but they were there, ready to fight the oppressors. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cliven-bundy-nevada-rancher-standoff-turns-on-a-states-rights-debate/

It can happen. People do take up arms if it gets serious enough. But, the things you listed above can still be handled (at least it's viewed that way) with politics and diplomacy. Once they start coming into your home and breaking the 4th amendment to destroy the 2nd, it'll be a whole different story.
The BLM didn't give a fuck what happened to the cattle which they killed over a third of them. The round up operation cost more than what Bundy "owed" the Fed but the point was to push people like Bundy around not to cross the Federal Government.
 
The BLM didn't give a fuck what happened to the cattle which they killed over a third of them. The round up operation cost more than what Bundy "owed" the Fed but the point was to push people like Bundy around not to cross the Federal Government.

They didn't take too kindly to the pushing. They stood up for themselves and let them know that shit isn't going to fly.
 
They didn't take too kindly to the pushing. They stood up for themselves and let them know that shit isn't going to fly.
Bundy should have kept his fucking trap shut about black people/slavery. Nothing makes you irrelevant when you come across a bumbling fool on TV ranting that subject. Stick to the issue at hand, don't deviate, you attract a lot of people that way.
 
What I meant is that the government cannot regulate free speech ... but a company can control what their employees can do and say (while on company time ... sometimes even when not on company time) ... the government cannot prosecute you without following a number of restrictions but a company can fire you for any reason and is not obligated to give you a hearing ... and ultimately on this topic, the government has difficulties managing guns due to constitutional restrictions on their power but a corporation can ban guns on their premises or used by their employees on company time ... just because a right is guaranteed by the constitution that does not mean it is binding in non government interactions
You're misunderstanding what the amendments do and do not do. Companies, individuals, and the government cannot legally infringe on your personal constitutional rights.

Corporations are awarded the same constitutional rights you and I are. Just like I can force you to leave my property for exercising your 1st and 2nd amendment rights without due process so can a corporation.

It's sad how many people didn't pay attention in history class.
 
There is really only one argument in favor of guns that stands up to scrutiny.

It goes sort of like "I like guns, and I want guns, and you shouldn't be able to tell me I can't have what I like".

Every other argument, be it self/home defense, standing up to tyranny, etc. etc. all fall apart upon closer examination, and looking at real world statistics.

As far as "Criminals can easily get guns, so if we ban guns only criminals would have guns" argument goes, let's remember WHY criminals can easily get guns. It's because they are EVERYWHERE. To paraphrase the slogan, 100% of illegal obtained guns start out as legally produced guns. There are no "illegal gun factories" out there.

The only way to stop criminals from getting guns is to remove the legal guns, so they don't trickle down into the hands of criminals.

As pointed out previously, it won't work to ban guns from schools or Uber cars, because these places are surrounded by them, and they are easily transportable. It would even work to ban them on a city by city, country by country or state by state basis. Because - as history proves - if you live IN Washington DC and you want to obtain a gun illegal, you can just drive to Virginia (or any other nearby state).

For it to have any effect at all it has to be federal.

In Australia after their infamous 1996 mass shooting, they took action, and banned guns. Previously they had on average on mass shooting a year. There hasn't been a single one since.

So, to say it wouldn't work here is a disingenuous argument. Yes, Australia is different than here, but they are pretty damned close to us culturally.

So, everything boils down to this:

1.) We have guns because we want guns. No other argument works.
2.) Like many other things in society, we ban things because the lowest common denominator couldn't handle it and killed lots of people. (It's not fair that I can't go 120mph on the highway, I'm a good driver...)
3.) For gun bans/extra controls to be effective, they ahve to be federal and apply universally.
4.) And we are never going to do it, because to the average American "liking guns" outweighs the fact that easily available guns wind up in the wrong hands and people get killed.

It's a wrap.
 
Well, many do (stats I find say 40%), but quite possibly some don't because they are being cheap and are only interested in stealing merchandise and not in the greater penalty of armed burglary or worse murder charges if that isn't their intent.
So you really think some high school drop out thug with a rap sheet a mile long and multiple prison sentences is thinking logically that "welp I should probably not carry a firearm today because the punishment if caught is not worth the crime"??? Cmon.... they dont have one because they couldnt get one, and I'm pretty sure it has more to do with difficulty in finding one than expense.

Part of the reason that we see these flash mobs attacking people and looting is that they believe (rightfully so) that there are no repercussions for their actions at the moment. I bet if the first store owner jumped on his roof with an AK with the support of the community to defend his business, that crowd would have dispersed right away and given up that idea.
Well since we have already established punishments like the death penalty dont deter people from committing murder, why would a guy with an AK on his roof? In fact, if your goal is to produce mayhem and you see an armed individual, what would you might consider doing to him first to ensure your safety? Perhaps kill him preemptively? Advertising the fact that you are a threat to criminals doesnt seem like a good way to protect yourself. If criminals are such opportunists then their first line of action is going to be to just kill you before you even have a chance. The only reason CWP holders are able to scare away certain criminals is because the criminal was not expecting you to be armed.
 
I think this new rule is because of something that happened in Chicago a while back:


http://www.businessinsider.com/uber...dgun-prevents-mass-shooting-in-chicago-2015-4

An Uber driver with a concealed handgun prevented a mass shooting in Chicago

Apr. 21, 2015, 11:38 AM 558,142 401

A driver with the ride-hailing service Uber put a stop to a potential mass shooting in Chicago over the weekend.

Here's the Chicago Tribune, citing Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn:

A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.

The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.

The driver will not be charged:

The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday.


------------

So now Uber drivers just have to watch bad guys mow people down.
 
It's not really a wrap. Usually people that are anti-gun are very ignorant about history and politics. I for one don't really care about X, Y, Z points you have there, because violence should be the ultimate factor, not 'gun distributed violence'. Look at Rwanda genocides.. Most of that shit went down with a hatchet. Taking guns away from a violent people or a violent society does nothing to curb violence. Yeah, there's less shootings, there's just more stabbings, car related murders, beatings, etc.

I think people fail to understand that violence is inherent to human nature. Taking away hardware does not automatically reprogram the software.

In final note - as a poly sci major - I've studied and read about some real shit hole places and about political instability. For some first world yuppies it's really hard for them to ever imagine a time when you'd have or want to use armament against a tyrannical government entity..or an oppressive and large social force within a country.. I suggest you take some history lessons and learn to use your imagination before you spew off your anti-gun rhetoric
 
You're misunderstanding what the amendments do and do not do. Companies, individuals, and the government cannot legally infringe on your personal constitutional rights.

Corporations are awarded the same constitutional rights you and I are. Just like I can force you to leave my property for exercising your 1st and 2nd amendment rights without due process so can a corporation.

It's sad how many people didn't pay attention in history class.

I think we are in violent agreement ... as a Laissez faire capitalist I am in support of all corporate rights ... in fact I believe they should have more rights than the individual sometimes (like the eminent domain cases that the SCOTUS was forced to rule on)
 
I am wondering if a place declares itself a gun free zone? Does it have a liability to the patrons of the establishment to protect them? They are not allowed to protect themselves therefore the establishment is taking their protection in their own hands, if they fail should they be liable?

I wonder if this has been argued before?
 
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
Every other argument, be it self/home defense, standing up to tyranny, etc. etc. all fall apart upon closer examination, and looking at real world statistics.
Top secret statistics you can't share? Because the states I can show you demonstrate that CHL holders aren't an issue, that unlike Australia we have massive issues with border control as well as a large domestic manufacturing capability, a constitutional requirement as a checks&balance in government by design, and the statistics demonstrate that relaxed gun laws have led to reduced violent crime and visa versa. I've shown numbers, where are yours to support your argument?
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
As far as "Criminals can easily get guns, so if we ban guns only criminals would have guns" argument goes, let's remember WHY criminals can easily get guns. It's because they are EVERYWHERE. To paraphrase the slogan, 100% of illegal obtained guns start out as legally produced guns. There are no "illegal gun factories" out there.
Of course there are, from 3D printers to home made guns, with youtube channels to show you how to make them.
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
The only way to stop criminals from getting guns is to remove the legal guns, so they don't trickle down into the hands of criminals.
You cited Australia, but Australia never removed all of their firearms. They certainly have LESS guns per capita, but still tons of guns (15 guns per 100 citizens * 23 million citizens).
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
In Australia after their infamous 1996 mass shooting, they took action, and banned guns. Previously they had on average on mass shooting a year. There hasn't been a single one since.
That's a lie, they never banned guns. They required gun registration, banned private gun sales, and required someone to demonstrate a need for a firearm when buying a new one, but there are millions upon millions of firearms in Australian homes.

And again, step back and put this in perspective! Your chance of being shot in a mass shooting is less than winning the lottery and then being struck by lightning. It is not a rational fear, and while it may make headlines, you have to realize that when there are 2.5 million deaths a year that 5-10 people shot isn't statistically significant to use as an excuse to usurp freedoms.
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
1.) We have guns because we want guns. No other argument works.
We have guns because of a culture that believes in the right to self-defense as well as protection from tyranny, since the founding of this nation was only possible thanks to regular civilians using private arms to form a militia and win independence from an oppressive government. Its literally what this country is all about, a country that I should remind you is one of the most successful and powerful on the planet, so we're doing something right.
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
2.) Like many other things in society, we ban things because the lowest common denominator couldn't handle it and killed lots of people. (It's not fair that I can't go 120mph on the highway, I'm a good driver...)
We've never banned cars because a small segment of the population would go 120mph with them, anymore than it makes sense to ban firearms because of extremely rare and limited (but newsworthy) events happen. Heck, compare how many people have died in mass shootings in the last ten years, and now compare that to your car death analogy. Pretty damn irrational to get worked up about, isn't it?
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
3.) For gun bans/extra controls to be effective, they ahve to be federal and apply universally.
And control our borders, just like we don't have ANY illegal aliens and illegal drugs flooding from the South every day. You know we even have signs up where they cross roads so drivers don't accidentally hit them, and signs warning American citizens to stay out of certain areas because of all the coyotes and drug traffickers bringing in illegal goods. The market for illegal firearms would be very healthy with criminal elements.
Zarathustra[H];1041683169 said:
4.) And we are never going to do it, because to the average American "liking guns" outweighs the fact that easily available guns wind up in the wrong hands and people get killed.
And if you took away the guns from murderers, what, its now a utopia? Do you know how many people the Mexican cartels have beheaded and hacked into pieces with simple machetes? Murders are murders, and inanimate objects are just that. Focus on the problem, PEOPLE, not tools whose application is decided by the user.
 
Even look at those people who did "mass stabbings". The same concept applies there. Mass murderers choose targets that can have the most effect for the least amount of resistance.

And if the government could take every gun and bullet from the population, the criminals would just find another way to kill others.
Just look at what happens in other countries with poison, acid, burning tires, machetes, car bombs, etc.
 
I am wondering if a place declares itself a gun free zone? Does it have a liability to the patrons of the establishment to protect them? They are not allowed to protect themselves therefore the establishment is taking their protection in their own hands, if they fail should they be liable?

I wonder if this has been argued before?

I would say this occurrence is so small that this is a somewhat academic point ... however, the business loses either way (if they let someone in with a gun then they get sued ... if they don't let someone bring in a gun and something happens they get sued) ... however, using a bank as an example, I am not sure if you can carry a gun into a bank or not but a bank is full of armed guards ... I would actually support a higher presence of armed guards or the military in certain locations where guns are prohibited (courthouses, airports, etc) ... I always felt a lot safer overseas where you regularly saw armed military units and police at the airport ... the Philippines had armed guards (with shotguns usually) at all banks, gas stations, hotels, and shopping malls ... I get to drive by all the armed military guards on the Mexican border on a regular basis (all carrying automatic weapons) while the USA guards usually only carry pistols

I think the best overall solution that would prevent all these types of issues in the future would be to pass a universal indemnity law for the USA ... no company can be sued for more than $100,000 or actual damages (if they are larger and if you can PROVE wrongdoing) ... with that level of protection I doubt most companies would care about guns or anything else ... you could also require all employees to carry personal liability insurance as a requirement of employment (just as I must have insurance to rent an apartment, they could require I have insurance to get a job ... thus the company is protected from any financial risks) ... win-win
 
I have no problems supporting that kinda government. In fact, it's just the kind of world I'd like to live in where people are all monitored pretty closely and if something goes wrong, the right intervention is automatically sent (medical support, police, fire, whatever else). That only happens if citizens are watched closely so that deviant thinkers can be weeded out and cordoned off someplace where they can't hurt anyone or themselves.

Guess it depends on who gets to define what is meant by "deviant thinkers".

I'm sure you would not be happy with my definition, even though I'm sure my definition, when combined with your above solution, would solve most the problems in this country.
 
And control our borders, just like we don't have ANY illegal aliens and illegal drugs flooding from the South every day. You know we even have signs up where they cross roads so drivers don't accidentally hit them, and signs warning American citizens to stay out of certain areas because of all the coyotes and drug traffickers bringing in illegal goods. The market for illegal firearms would be very healthy with criminal elements.

You do realize that illegal guns flow FROM the U.S. to Mexico, because they are so much more readily available here than they are in Mexico, right?

In a way, a large portion of Mexico's problems stem from the fact that the cartels can so easily get their weapons across the border from the U.S.

Sure, yes, they can kill people by other means too, and there are examples of that, but then they have to catch them first :p it's a lot easier to run from a cartel member with a machete, than it is to run from a cartel member with an american made AR15 smuggled across the border.

American lax gun laws aren't just hurting us, they are fueling international organized crime.
 
I have never seen a gun made from Mexico. That is probably why they come here for them.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041683296 said:
You do realize that illegal guns flow FROM the U.S. to Mexico, because they are so much more readily available here than they are in Mexico, right?

In a way, a large portion of Mexico's problems stem from the fact that the cartels can so easily get their weapons across the border from the U.S.

Sure, yes, they can kill people by other means too, and there are examples of that, but then they have to catch them first :p it's a lot easier to run from a cartel member with a machete, than it is to run from a cartel member with an american made AR15 smuggled across the border.

American lax gun laws aren't just hurting us, they are fueling international organized crime.

How is that our problem though ... when we banned DDT due to the toxic dangers we continued to sell it to other countries that had no ban (some of which then sold their products back to us) ... banning guns at this point would be an impossible task for the USA (there are too many in circulation and we have too many land and sea borders to prevent their illegal influx ... just like with illegal drugs) ... I don't think we can regulate our way out of this (unless that regulation is harsher penalties for violent crime or violent acts) ... ultimately the only proactive way out of this is better education for people so they don't view violence as a solution
 
I was referring to a finished product. As in, made in mexico. Not parts stamped out and sent here for final assembly.

Since guns are illegal in Mexico I don't think they manufacture them for export (but if their oil revenues ever drop, who knows)
 
Since guns are illegal in Mexico I don't think they manufacture them for export (but if their oil revenues ever drop, who knows)

I don't think this is true, you can own/purchase a gun in mexico. It is just heavily regulated and requires permits and reasoning to own them.
 
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