next-Jin
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 7,388
Peace, love, compassion, and respect, are becoming foreign concepts in America.
It went out the window when it was forced from our earnings.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Peace, love, compassion, and respect, are becoming foreign concepts in America.
There's a certain percentage of the American populace that ascribes to the belief that if you're rich you deserve it and should be celebrated for it, and if you're poor, you deserve that also and should be shown contempt for it, believing that the only true factor that determines your success is how hard you work. It's not really based in reality, especially since America has some of the most hours work in the Western world, but has lower social mobility than many European countries. Anyway, this belief goes a long way to explaining the attitudes that seem to forego the values you mention. It's not that they are devoid of them, but that some people have a totally separate value system that's different from most of humanity.
Which is fine by me if its voluntary as a means to accept handouts.Anyways there is only a matter of time to where GPS tracking turns into a form of control.
The facts simply don't back up your claim, considering our ever escalating welfare state. What are becoming foreign concepts are responsibility, accountability, determination, self-reliance, and hard work. And this isn't some outcry against charity, otherwise we wouldn't be so massively charitable as we are. This is about an intolerance for those that have an attitude of being unwilling to apply an effort to do their part to better themselves and society as a whole, and have this ingrained entitlement mentality with no sense of shame.Lith1um said:Peace, love, compassion, and respect, are becoming foreign concepts in America.
If you're in a third world country, by all means, many don't have proper social service safety nets, but in the United States we pay an absolute fortune in taxes to ensure our homeless have access to all the help they need. And the mentally ill are institutionalized to get the help that they need, and not left out to eat garbage. But unfortunately, there is a new crop of bleeding heart liberals born every year that are so easily duped and part with their money.
I think the problem comes from many who talk like ALL impoverished people fit this description. If you combine that with lopsided economic conditions where the rich are getting richer and the middle class is slowly disappearing, like we're currently it creates this perception of ignorance and hate, even if it could be just miscommunication. Especially considering how our system practically punishes employment when someone is on welfare, rather than weening them off it. Nobody like slackers and freeloaders, however I see them as far less of a problem than the working poor or disadvantage getting railroaded by the system.Ducman69 said:And this isn't some outcry against charity, otherwise we wouldn't be so massively charitable as we are. This is about an intolerance for those that have an attitude of being unwilling to apply an effort to do their part to better themselves and society as a whole, and have this ingrained entitlement mentality with no sense of shame.
You might be surprised from some other threads here on hardocp...Ducman69 said:No one has contempt for a someone working hard even if they are making minimum wage
See I think that's why conversations like this can get so muddied. I personally see the actions of the 1%, or rather the 0.01% as causing far more problems then all people who have no intention of contributing who do collect welfare combined. Consider this, we spent about 3.7 trillion on welfare over the past 5 years, but there's an estimated 21 - 32 trillion stored offshore from tax avoidance.Ducman69 said:And for the record, if you search my posts about 1%ers, you can see I go on rants about how THEIR contributions are completely divorced from their compensation as well, and its total bullshit.
As someone who was homeless to no fault of his own when I was 18, I take great offence to your callousness. People like you are what's wrong with attitudes in America these days...
Compassion is a dish best served warm.
We are all members of the human race and just about all of us aside from the 1 percent are just a paycheck away from being neighbors with the homeless.
You spew bullshit by taking presented data and comparing it to Fox News...while at the same time not presenting any data of your own countering the supposed ignorance. It's incredible.
I speak in generalities, because I find it more useful than trying to adopt an ideology or rule-of-thumb type response based on unicorns. If I find one, I'll alter my predisposition, but something that's true for the vast majority is more useful forming an opinion around IMO.I think the problem comes from many who talk like ALL impoverished people fit this description.
Quite possible, but IMO its like arguing whether or not dried up urine all over the seat is worse than a bit of poop smear on the lid here and there. One is more common, the other perhaps more severe, but either way they certainly don't balance each other out nor should one be ignored. Clorox bleach that shit, cuz they both suck!See I think that's why conversations like this can get so muddied. I personally see the actions of the 1%, or rather the 0.01% as causing far more problems then all people who have no intention of contributing who do collect welfare combined. Consider this, we spent about 3.7 trillion on welfare over the past 5 years, but there's an estimated 21 - 32 trillion stored offshore from tax avoidance.
Crap !
I am far from being in the 1% and I am nowhere near your dismal situation, neither are any of the dozens of people I work with. The truth is your in that sorry state and somehow you have some irrational view that you are the "norm". You are not the norm, you just can't see what is normal and think somehow you are it.
Might want to look at this:Crap !
I am far from being in the 1% and I am nowhere near your dismal situation, neither are any of the dozens of people I work with. The truth is your in that sorry state and somehow you have some irrational view that you are the "norm". You are not the norm, you just can't see what is normal and think somehow you are it.
Actually piper he is correct. The overwhelming vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.I'm on my phone now but last year at a symposium the stats were pretty dismal. Something like 70% of Americans don't have enough in savings to live more than 3 months, the average family has something like 15k in credit card debt (not sure on that amount but it was ridiculous), and something like 80% don't have enough money in their retirement fund to live without working.
Our local food bank has seen more people the last 5 years than it did in the last 10 or so they say. The churches and other faith based programs in our counties were taxed beyond their normal limits, and homeless shelters were scrambling to find beds.
Sure I guess you can argue that many of these problems were self inflicted either due to poor financial responsibility or habits but the fact remains that the majority of Americans are not financially stable.
It went out the window when it was forced from our earnings.
quiet a bit of hatred for the destitute here... fascinating.
Those that have seen my posts will know I am strongly anti-government. This proposal, however, seems to be one of the few examples of government at least attempting to do something correctly.
I would rather my tax dollars go to poor people doing nothing than to murdering people.
the city can provide shelters, benches, and "coffee rooms" to specific sites where they're needed most
And this isn't some outcry against charity, otherwise we wouldn't be so massively charitable as we are.
What percentage of homeless do you think abuse the system without shame? My guess is the majority of homeless are traumatized beyond recognition by shame.This is about an intolerance for those that have an attitude of being unwilling to apply an effort to do their part to better themselves and society as a whole, and have this ingrained entitlement mentality with no sense of shame.
We provide more foreign aid to the world than any other country, and domestically provide $1 trillion in public funding, and more in private charities as well. As a society, that makes us plenty charitable, and in theory we are ruled by representatives on behalf of the public will.Are you being sarcastic? It seems to me most people are not charitable at all, and if given the choice they wouldn't help the homeless. If we were truly "massively charitable" then the government wouldn't need to do anything?
I don't think the majority of people that appear to be homeless actually are homeless, I believe that most are costumes and they have government housing (or heavily subsidized) and are keenly aware of all the handouts that are available, take advantage of all of them, but still peddle for cash because its easy stress-free money.What percentage of homeless do you think abuse the system without shame? My guess is the majority of homeless are traumatized beyond recognition by shame.
Might want to look at this:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/
76% of America is like him. You and the dozen people you know are the ones with an abnormal situation. I would try to tell you this is MORE a result of public policy rather than you and the dozen people you know having more insight than others, but that is likely a lost cause.
Are you being sarcastic? It seems to me most people are not charitable at all, and if given the choice they wouldn't help the homeless. If we were truly "massively charitable" then the government wouldn't need to do anything?
What percentage of homeless do you think abuse the system without shame? My guess is the majority of homeless are traumatized beyond recognition by shame.
The sheer stupidity and arrogance of the majority of Americans is hard to comprehend.
Its ok to spend trillions on illegal wars, attacking other countries, fake 'war on drugs', the world's biggest and most inefficient prison system.
But of course its not ok to spend a single dollar on programs that actually help people such as health care, social welfare, education etc.
That would be 23%. So in other words, a little more than one out of 5.lcpiper said:Although I will accept that the 76% figure is correct, if you will accept that the 76% and plus the 1% we all know and love leaves a remaining 33% who are more like me.
So you had the luxury of not having to work to support your family at a young age.I finished High School
So you either had money from your family to put you part of the way through college, were fortunate to be in a job market where you could earn enough for yourself, or else took loans at a far lower rate than what is available today.spent three years in college getting two years worth of education
So you qualified for a government subsidized organization. Say you didn't qualify for some reason? What would have been the plan then? Working minimum wage in the 80s would have been a much better situation than minimum wage now and less competitive.I joined the Army in '81
That would be 23%. So in other words, a little more than one out of 5.
So you had the luxury of not having to work to support your family at a young age.
So you either had money from your family to put you part of the way through college, were fortunate to be in a job market where you could earn enough for yourself, or else took loans at a far lower rate than what is available today.
So you qualified for a government subsidized organization. Say you didn't qualify for some reason? What would have been the plan then? Working minimum wage in the 80s would have been a much better situation than minimum wage now and less competitive.
My point is while hard work can of course make you successful, your own story points out many advantages you had. When you proclaimed so confidently right off that you were normal, only to find that you're in the minority, it comes across like you're ignorant of the larger picture that's going on. How do I explain you and people like you? I call it luck + hard work. Problem is, a big chunk of that remaining 76% of people don't have the same luck you did, that's what I blame on public policy. Unless of course, you think that 4 out of 5 people are lazy to the point of gross incompetence. If that's the case, why do we have some of the most annual hours worked in the Western World? My attitude is our society should be good to people who work hard, ensuring they don't have to worry about life from paycheck to paycheck.
Tetris42;
That would be 23%. So in other words, a little more than one out of 5.
By Tetris42;
So you had the luxury of not having to work to support your family at a young age.
By Tetris42;
So you qualified for a government subsidized organization. Say you didn't qualify for some reason? What would have been the plan then? Working minimum wage in the 80s would have been a much better situation than minimum wage now and less competitive.
I had the fortune to not have been burdened by parents who failed to adequately provide. But I worked from age 14 onward every Summer and many weekends/holidays. I also saved from those earnings for my College money.
So if you think this is a luxury then your entitled to it, but I call it earning your own way and it didn't feel so luxurious when I was doing it.
Bty Tetris42;
My point is while hard work can of course make you successful, your own story points out many advantages you had. When you proclaimed so confidently right off that you were normal, only to find that you're in the minority, it comes across like you're ignorant of the larger picture that's going on. How do I explain you and people like you? I call it luck + hard work. Problem is, a big chunk of that remaining 76% of people don't have the same luck you did, that's what I blame on public policy. Unless of course, you think that 4 out of 5 people are lazy to the point of gross incompetence. If that's the case, why do we have some of the most annual hours worked in the Western World? My attitude is our society should be good to people who work hard, ensuring they don't have to worry about life from paycheck to paycheck.