next-Jin
Supreme [H]ardness
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It went out the window when it was forced from our earnings.
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Tracking The Homeless With GPS
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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It went out the window when it was forced from our earnings.
spintroniX
Gawd
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quiet a bit of hatred for the destitute here... fascinating.
Those that have seen my posts will know I am strongly anti-government. This proposal, however, seems to be one of the few examples of government at least attempting to do something correctly.
I would rather my tax dollars go to poor people doing nothing than to murdering people.
Those that have seen my posts will know I am strongly anti-government. This proposal, however, seems to be one of the few examples of government at least attempting to do something correctly.
I would rather my tax dollars go to poor people doing nothing than to murdering people.
next-Jin
Supreme [H]ardness
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I'm reasonably certain that most of humanity is none of those things in regards to your last few sentences.
Self preservation absolutely rules human rationale on almost every level from single, family, town, city, state and nation.
No one gives a damn about other people's problems and for those that do care they are a fraction minority.
Which is fine by me if its voluntary as a means to accept handouts.
Don't want to work? Want everyone else to pay your way? Get a subdermal micro-GPS and one of those timed-release 9 month birth control things, so you don't have 15 kids like this ho, and then say "somebody gotz ta pay fo mah keedz!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavou_SEj1E
The facts simply don't back up your claim, considering our ever escalating welfare state. What are becoming foreign concepts are responsibility, accountability, determination, self-reliance, and hard work. And this isn't some outcry against charity, otherwise we wouldn't be so massively charitable as we are. This is about an intolerance for those that have an attitude of being unwilling to apply an effort to do their part to better themselves and society as a whole, and have this ingrained entitlement mentality with no sense of shame.Lith1um said:
No one has contempt for a someone working hard even if they are making minimum wage, generally the contempt comes from people that live their lives as permanent leaches, just taking, taking, taking and not giving anything back.
And for the record, if you search my posts about 1%ers, you can see I go on rants about how THEIR contributions are completely divorced from their compensation as well, and its total bullshit. Ideally, I'd like to see a system like in the military, where you work hard to rank up and as you rank up you are compensated accordingly or get more for hazard duty and the like, but you don't have some people just leaching while being slobs and getting massive handouts nor generals that make thousands of times what the average soldier does. That'd be my utopia, a benevolent capitalist system where you get help when you need it but with the expectation you do your part and apply an effort, and there are no 1%ers controlling half the country's assets.
Most do pay to much in Taxes, mostly because they hide them or relabel them. Still if you look at most numbers I am not sure that the poor are the largest abusers of the government. Every company which pays zero taxes, or gets large subsides..or those who exploit medicare/caid via fraud.
We do need to cut expenses and have better oversight of the government and streamline taxes, but currently politicians are brilliant by leading via chaos. They convince everyone the fault lines with someone else or another group.
Look look the poor are taking all the money. Look Look the rich are not paying their fair share. Look Look they are starting class warfare! Simply Divide and conquer at its finest.
Darunion
Supreme [H]ardness
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If we put GPS into homeless and then turn them into tires, the NSA would be able to track every car in america. It is recycling and spying all at once, brilliant!!!
I think the problem comes from many who talk like ALL impoverished people fit this description. If you combine that with lopsided economic conditions where the rich are getting richer and the middle class is slowly disappearing, like we're currently it creates this perception of ignorance and hate, even if it could be just miscommunication. Especially considering how our system practically punishes employment when someone is on welfare, rather than weening them off it. Nobody like slackers and freeloaders, however I see them as far less of a problem than the working poor or disadvantage getting railroaded by the system.Ducman69 said:
You might be surprised from some other threads here on hardocp...Ducman69 said:
See I think that's why conversations like this can get so muddied. I personally see the actions of the 1%, or rather the 0.01% as causing far more problems then all people who have no intention of contributing who do collect welfare combined. Consider this, we spent about 3.7 trillion on welfare over the past 5 years, but there's an estimated 21 - 32 trillion stored offshore from tax avoidance.Ducman69 said:
Crap !
I am far from being in the 1% and I am nowhere near your dismal situation, neither are any of the dozens of people I work with. The truth is your in that sorry state and somehow you have some irrational view that you are the "norm". You are not the norm, you just can't see what is normal and think somehow you are it.
Yea, cause grahmcrka just imagined his neighbors. Poor man is delusional, his "indigent neighbors" are actually Aliens.
I speak in generalities, because I find it more useful than trying to adopt an ideology or rule-of-thumb type response based on unicorns. If I find one, I'll alter my predisposition, but something that's true for the vast majority is more useful forming an opinion around IMO.
Quite possible, but IMO its like arguing whether or not dried up urine all over the seat is worse than a bit of poop smear on the lid here and there. One is more common, the other perhaps more severe, but either way they certainly don't balance each other out nor should one be ignored. Clorox bleach that shit, cuz they both suck!
Comixbooks
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I always fear going homeless after I quit Walmart.
Actually piper he is correct. The overwhelming vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.I'm on my phone now but last year at a symposium the stats were pretty dismal. Something like 70% of Americans don't have enough in savings to live more than 3 months, the average family has something like 15k in credit card debt (not sure on that amount but it was ridiculous), and something like 80% don't have enough money in their retirement fund to live without working.
Our local food bank has seen more people the last 5 years than it did in the last 10 or so they say. The churches and other faith based programs in our counties were taxed beyond their normal limits, and homeless shelters were scrambling to find beds.
Sure I guess you can argue that many of these problems were self inflicted either due to poor financial responsibility or habits but the fact remains that the majority of Americans are not financially stable.
Might want to look at this:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/
76% of America is like him. You and the dozen people you know are the ones with an abnormal situation. I would try to tell you this is MORE a result of public policy rather than you and the dozen people you know having more insight than others, but that is likely a lost cause.
Also I should add the MEDIAN individual income for adults is about 27k, meaning half of people have less to work with than that. While it's not impossible to manage less than 27k so that you don't live paycheck to paycheck, it's certainly a challenge depending on the area and personal situation (kids, cost of living, etc.).
I can accept that, correction and all.
What I can't accept is the Government's insistence that it's the Government's problem to correct. I agree that the fast safety net encourages unreasonable financial habits. Our coddling of criminals and our acceptance of illegal practices encourages risky behavior that jeopardizes one's employment future. Yet we continue to take from those who are successful at negotiating these temptations until they too as put to the strain. My wife is amazing, no matter how much our taxes continue to grow she still finds loose bills for the red bucket in front of Walmart at Christmas time. She is the one who will roll down her window and give something to a pan handler on the corner. She is a kind woman with a good heart. But too many of those faces look too young and too healthy for me to find much pity. If all these people on the streets are any warning, it seems not many are listening.
sfsuphysics
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So basically no one had any of that since the civil war when income taxes came about?
It's an example of someone else's government doing something that maybe their people think is ok and maybe not.
And I don't hate destitute people. Even Ignorant lazy people don't deserve too much scorn, unless they are happy to stay that way all the while abusing the helping hand provided to them "without consent" by others.
Outamyhead
Supreme [H]ardness
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In the US this would just be used to force the homeless out of an area.
Youn
Supreme [H]ardness
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Are you being sarcastic? It seems to me most people are not charitable at all, and if given the choice they wouldn't help the homeless. If we were truly "massively charitable" then the government wouldn't need to do anything?
What percentage of homeless do you think abuse the system without shame? My guess is the majority of homeless are traumatized beyond recognition by shame.
We provide more foreign aid to the world than any other country, and domestically provide $1 trillion in public funding, and more in private charities as well. As a society, that makes us plenty charitable, and in theory we are ruled by representatives on behalf of the public will.
I don't think the majority of people that appear to be homeless actually are homeless, I believe that most are costumes and they have government housing (or heavily subsidized) and are keenly aware of all the handouts that are available, take advantage of all of them, but still peddle for cash because its easy stress-free money.
If you go back a few posts, you can see five youtube videos of very convincing acts that are all busted, one of which has a Lexus and lives in a luxury apartment. The other guy already got a 2.5 million dollar settlement, and admits that peddling he makes $60K to $100K tax free every year peddling.
There's no shame in these people anymore than there is shame in obese Walmart shoppers that ride those electric carts.
Although I will accept that the 76% figure is correct, if you will accept that the 76% and plus the 1% we all know and love leaves a remaining 33% who are more like me.
That being the case, how do you account for 1 in 3 Americans not being either stupidly rich or hanging by a single paycheck's thread?
How do you account for so many, one out of every three, being fiscally sound? Given that there is nothing unduly different between them and the rest.
I finished High School, spent three years in college getting two years worth of education, but it was fun. When I had squandered my college savings on drinking and gaming, (you thought I was going to say women right?
), I realized I was getting no where, I needed a new plan, I joined the Army in '81. Now I didn't make it very high up in the Army, I retired early as a Staff Sergeant at 38 years old, and my retirement pay came to just over $900 a month. It certainly isn't enough to live on with any sense of security so of course I began a new career in IT which I am still working at 17 years later. So why am I so special?I bet there is a simple explanation. Debt, or specifically, living in debt. In simple terms, if you give away 10 to 20% of everything you make then you can't get ahead. You can't make it by making it for the creditors. I use credit every month but I never pay interest. I don't buy what I can't afford to write a check for. In the end I think you will find that this is the root cause of the financial issue. That and believing the salesmen and the marketing gurus, consultants, etc.
The fix is easy and it just takes will power but it's hard to get there if you get yourself stuck behind that eight-ball right from the start. You have to get out of debt and stay out of debt. I never said it was easy, but it does get easier and easier the longer you can pull it off.
I would wish this on any of you that can manage it. I would, I do.
And who said this had to be a Government problem? Where was a writ that the Federal Government had to take on the needy?
I'll argue that prosperity does not mark a lack of poverty but instead marks the rise of people within the body to levels above poverty. That it's the government's responsibility to afford it's citizens the opportunity to rise above poverty and the more that are able to do so the more successful that government has become at providing opportunity.
I would also argue that some don't want to accept that there are people who just don't care enough to take advantage of their opportunity. There are people who are fine with doing nothing more then the barest minimum of what they must do to survive and nothing more.
So why does Government owe it to these people to provide more then opportunity?
I think GPS'ing the homeless is a great idea because they will no doubt be some of the first to become zombies when the zombie apocalyps happens.
It will give those of us who have not turned a way to be able to track the herds and avoid them.
Also, here in Huntsville AL, you can get put up in Section 8 housing as long as you make less than $100,000 a year. That was what it was 3-4 years ago. I really don't have any idea what the limit is now.
How's that for wasting tax payer dollars?
Welfare in general is used by scammers. And yes, I have personally seen this as have multiple relatives and friends of mine.
Those on "welfare" use their money to buy carts full of alchohol, and then use their welfare cards or food stamps to buy actual food.
A lot of those on wlefare also have really nice cars, top-tier cable packages, etc.
And to top it off, they have their kids enrolled in the free lunch and free school supplies programs.
A huge scam is what it is.
But it is what the libs and their ilk want in order to be able to "buy votes".
There needs to be some accountability and regular verification checks of every person that is on welfare.
And... if a person fails a drug test while on welfare, then they should automatically be denied all welfare programs for at least 6 months after they are clean.
It will give those of us who have not turned a way to be able to track the herds and avoid them.
Also, here in Huntsville AL, you can get put up in Section 8 housing as long as you make less than $100,000 a year. That was what it was 3-4 years ago. I really don't have any idea what the limit is now.
How's that for wasting tax payer dollars?
Welfare in general is used by scammers. And yes, I have personally seen this as have multiple relatives and friends of mine.
Those on "welfare" use their money to buy carts full of alchohol, and then use their welfare cards or food stamps to buy actual food.
A lot of those on wlefare also have really nice cars, top-tier cable packages, etc.
And to top it off, they have their kids enrolled in the free lunch and free school supplies programs.
A huge scam is what it is.
But it is what the libs and their ilk want in order to be able to "buy votes".
There needs to be some accountability and regular verification checks of every person that is on welfare.
And... if a person fails a drug test while on welfare, then they should automatically be denied all welfare programs for at least 6 months after they are clean.
One other thing.
There are a bunch of fake bums in Tucson AZ.. and I am gussing in pretty much all other large cities.
Local radio station have done interviews with some of them, and they pull in at least $800 per day.
How's that for making you want to say screw it and never try to help the "homeless" in fear that they are in fact, scammers that are living better than you?
There are a bunch of fake bums in Tucson AZ.. and I am gussing in pretty much all other large cities.
Local radio station have done interviews with some of them, and they pull in at least $800 per day.
How's that for making you want to say screw it and never try to help the "homeless" in fear that they are in fact, scammers that are living better than you?
I know my sample population is pretty small but when I worked for Weld County I started a record keeping program and 85% of the people who came in for services didn't return within the 5 years I tracked the numbers. 6% were returning users but we're actively seeking work but we're held back or unable to hold gainful employment tdue to lack of job skills or education. 8% were repeat and habitual users of assistance programs. That is just to give you an idea of northern colorado.
The sheer stupidity and arrogance of the majority of Americans is hard to comprehend.
Its ok to spend trillions on illegal wars, attacking other countries, fake 'war on drugs', the world's biggest and most inefficient prison system.
But of course its not ok to spend a single dollar on programs that actually help people such as health care, social welfare, education etc.
Its ok to spend trillions on illegal wars, attacking other countries, fake 'war on drugs', the world's biggest and most inefficient prison system.
But of course its not ok to spend a single dollar on programs that actually help people such as health care, social welfare, education etc.
Actually.. it is ok to spend money on people that actually need the help.. but spending a vast amount of the money alloted to those programs on the scammers needed to stop years ago.
Innefficient prison system.. yep.. it is pretty much trash.
As for the "war on drugs"... you must not live in an area where the druggies are constantly burglerizing houses and pawning the stuff they sell in order to buy more drugs. You know not what you speak of.
What also needs to happen is for the USA to actually enforce the borders. That alone right there would cut down on a lot of welfare fraud and would also open up jobs for those who need them.
It isn't going tohappen though until at least one dirty bomb or other huge terrorist attack is carried out due to them not enforcing the borders.
In fact, there are known terrorist sleeper cells right across the border in Mexico.
Don't worry, the trillions spent went to people in needy countries like villages in Afghanistan and built schools and clinics, which also payed for the construction workers business and help feed their families, or it went to US businesses which employed Americans and many people from around the world so they and their families benefited too.
Fake War on Drugs, just like the Fake users who fake stopping, no demand, no war. If you think it's a waste, then don't be part of the problem.
As for the money we do spend, it must be more then enough because due to the shortage of qualified recipients we have allowed anyone in Central America to come and get some for themselves, come on in, the water's warm.
Fake War on Drugs, just like the Fake users who fake stopping, no demand, no war. If you think it's a waste, then don't be part of the problem.
As for the money we do spend, it must be more then enough because due to the shortage of qualified recipients we have allowed anyone in Central America to come and get some for themselves, come on in, the water's warm.
That would be 23%. So in other words, a little more than one out of 5.lcpiper said:
So you had the luxury of not having to work to support your family at a young age.
So you either had money from your family to put you part of the way through college, were fortunate to be in a job market where you could earn enough for yourself, or else took loans at a far lower rate than what is available today.
So you qualified for a government subsidized organization. Say you didn't qualify for some reason? What would have been the plan then? Working minimum wage in the 80s would have been a much better situation than minimum wage now and less competitive.
My point is while hard work can of course make you successful, your own story points out many advantages you had. When you proclaimed so confidently right off that you were normal, only to find that you're in the minority, it comes across like you're ignorant of the larger picture that's going on. How do I explain you and people like you? I call it luck + hard work. Problem is, a big chunk of that remaining 76% of people don't have the same luck you did, that's what I blame on public policy. Unless of course, you think that 4 out of 5 people are lazy to the point of gross incompetence. If that's the case, why do we have some of the most annual hours worked in the Western World? My attitude is our society should be good to people who work hard, ensuring they don't have to worry about life from paycheck to paycheck.
Quick addition:
I guess what I'd really like to see is if someone is a hard worker and responsible with their money, I'd like to see it more of a sure thing they'll be alright, as opposed to the dice toss it's becoming. I'd like to see only the fuckups who are irresponsible with their money to actually be unsuccessful despite working hard.
I guess what I'd really like to see is if someone is a hard worker and responsible with their money, I'd like to see it more of a sure thing they'll be alright, as opposed to the dice toss it's becoming. I'd like to see only the fuckups who are irresponsible with their money to actually be unsuccessful despite working hard.
VladDracule
[H]ard|Gawd
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I had the fortune to not have been burdened by parents who failed to adequately provide. But I worked from age 14 onward every Summer and many weekends/holidays. I also saved from those earnings for my College money.
So if you think this is a luxury then your entitled to it, but I call it earning your own way and it didn't feel so luxurious when I was doing it.
Wait a second on the "76%" everyone seems to be throwing around. Just because you have no savings doesn't mean you are poor. At all. That absolute lie needs to stop right now. I know rich people, poor people and every type in between that don't have 3 months of liquid cash "saved" up, and it has no relation to if they are poor or not.
rudy
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There is a huge difference between living paycheck to paycheck and actually being threatened with homelessness. Most people who live paycheck to paycheck do so because of loans and other issues that they could drop cold turkey and move into a much less expensive place without going homeless. That is why evictions give you 30 days grace. And when that happens most of those people do just that. When the economy crashed we didn't see 50% of America go homeless did we? IMO sometimes people confuse spending all your money with danger of being homeless and those are not the same thing. But statistics list them both as living paycheck to paycheck.
Just because you don't have a decade of savings to keep riding it out in your luxurious lifestyle doesn't mean you are really living paycheck to paycheck.
Just because you don't have a decade of savings to keep riding it out in your luxurious lifestyle doesn't mean you are really living paycheck to paycheck.
Krenum
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Blah Blah Blah Blah
I think everyone here are jealous of the homeless because they enjoy freedoms you do not have in your busy worker bee lives.
I think everyone here are jealous of the homeless because they enjoy freedoms you do not have in your busy worker bee lives.
VladDracule
[H]ard|Gawd
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That is still a significantly better position to be in than many many MANY people are in. I have multiple degrees (3 to be exact, in pursuit of a 4th).
My first degrees done as a dual major were in Violin Performance and Electrical Engineering. It took me 6 years to complete both because i had to 100% support myself. I was working full time 40+ hours a week (sometimes up to 60 hours) to afford school and living expenses. I didnt get to dick around in college like you did, and frankly thats the type of thing that pisses me off. My guess is you had one of not more scholarships when people like me who took shit seriously had to live on 3 hours of sleep a night while pursuing an extremely difficult degree. And this was by choice, i could have lived with my parents but i chose not to. Not everybody even has that choice. I volunteer with high schools and midschools here mostly hispanic/mexican immigrants and can tell you with 100% confidence those kids don't have a chance. they just dont, culturally and financially they wouldnt make it. take the silver spoon out of your mouth please
And my point is that I am far from a minority, the opportunity for education is virtually guaranteed, and as long as you are doing OK in school and don't get into too much trouble with cops then the only thing that would bar someone from service is physical/mental handicaps or problems.
The rest, things you bring up like having to leave school to support family. These are not problems systemic to the system or government policy, these are most often the result of people's very poor life decisions. If someone is put into this situation it's usually because a parent put them there.
Are there exceptions, yes there are. A father killed in a traffic accident could cause a real issue. I am sure there are others. I have no lack of feeling for people who must deal with such hardship. But in the past family normally helped with such issues and even if they still do, their ability to do so effectively is hindered by how many simply are not able to.
But the real causes of these problems are social, not political. The come from ideas about marriage, drugs, and yes, the welfare safety net has a play in it to. Add to this a lack of personal responsibility, entitlement, a nation infected with lawyers suing anyone you can at any chance as if it's the lottery. Discipline at home and in the School, the list get's quite long.
Still, the biggest single factor is about the choices people make. Life is hard, but it's harder if your stupid.