TR4 3960X water cooling (and case) suggestion

tived

Limp Gawd
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177
hi,

I have the same case for my SR-2, I looked at using it but I could not fit the two Alphacool extreme 280 I have.

I also have a smaller and newer Fractal Design Defime 7 XL, with some tweaking I managed to fit them in

note: new to water cooling, sorry for the mess

8C1A441A-3843-4816-AE38-DD99992A627E.jpeg
 

Gibo69

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No noise complaint. But I keep the core X9 12 feet across the room. With your cpu you might need thick rads and higher static pressure fans. I never found one case louder than another. What I have done many times is buy a bigger case/ P/S /case fans/rads etc. Bigger fans are quiter than small fans cranked up. Big P/S with huge heat sinks run cooler and at a higher efficiency than a small P/S cranked up all the time. I bought the core X9 for the 200mm fans on the front and room for two EK 420 rads. 6 140mm fans are quiter than 6 120mm fans cranked up. I did pull all the 5.25 inch, 3.5 inch and 2.5 inch drive bays out.
Thanks MaxHughes !
Good inputs !
Just one thing...I am a noob :shame:..what mean P/S ? static pressure fans ?
Thanks !
 
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Gibo69

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hi,

I have the same case for my SR-2, I looked at using it but I could not fit the two Alphacool extreme 280 I have.

I also have a smaller and newer Fractal Design Defime 7 XL, with some tweaking I managed to fit them in

note: new to water cooling, sorry for the mess

View attachment 305534

Hi tived,
Nice system you have there...and speaking of the "mess"....I will care less about fancy look...then important thing, to me, would be the overall efficiency of the system...so, if it work as it should, then its perfect !
I pay particular attention to avoid all the RGB/LED/etc.. kind of stuff....they would give zero increase in performance efficiency...and in the end I don't like them...it look like to be in a Discotheque kind of place...not for me ! :)
One question...how many drives you have installed in this PC ? Where ?
Thanks !
 
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MaxHughes

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Thanks MaxHughes !
Good inputs !
Just one thing...I am a noob :shame:..what mean P/S ? static pressure fans ?
Thanks !
Sorry. P/S is Power supply. Case fans blow into an open space and the Cubic feet per minute CFM is important. Radiator fans push air through a considerable amount of air flow restriction. Rad thickness and the number of fins per inch increase how effective a rad is, but both create more air flow restriction. The amount of increase in air pressure needed between the fan blades and the rad goes up. Blade shape, number of blades on the fan and potential rpm all effect the static pressure. Look at Noctua's A14 (blades spread apart) and their A12 (blades very close together) models. I run 500/1600 rpm fans for the rads, but if I went up in cpu cores or overclocked my GPU, I might need 2000 or 3000 rpm fans. I went in the middle. Not 10/13 or 13/16 tubing but 12/16. Not Rads with 120 fans or 180mm but 140mm fans. Not two fans or 4 fans but three 140mm fans. My rads are 45mm thick, not 38 or 60mm thick. I'm nowhere near the limit of pump or fan speeds. All these options are available to you if your start with a big case. Best wishes,max
 

Gibo69

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Sorry. P/S is Power supply. Case fans blow into an open space and the Cubic feet per minute CFM is important. Radiator fans push air through a considerable amount of air flow restriction. Rad thickness and the number of fins per inch increase how effective a rad is, but both create more air flow restriction. The amount of increase in air pressure needed between the fan blades and the rad goes up. Blade shape, number of blades on the fan and potential rpm all effect the static pressure. Look at Noctua's A14 (blades spread apart) and their A12 (blades very close together) models. I run 500/1600 rpm fans for the rads, but if I went up in cpu cores or overclocked my GPU, I might need 2000 or 3000 rpm fans. I went in the middle. Not 10/13 or 13/16 tubing but 12/16. Not Rads with 120 fans or 180mm but 140mm fans. Not two fans or 4 fans but three 140mm fans. My rads are 45mm thick, not 38 or 60mm thick. I'm nowhere near the limit of pump or fan speeds. All these options are available to you if your start with a big case. Best wishes,max
No problem !
I could have guessed...:facepalm:

As a P/S I have a Corsair AXi 1500W which I believe will be enough..
I already have many Noctua fans...all A15 and A12...
Regarding rads, I asked HWLabs, Alphacool, XSPC what they would suggest for my need and after I have their answers I will decide which way to go.

Thank you very much for all these good pieces of advises !
 
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Gibo69

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One last question..
For the top radiators..does it make a difference if the fan is ABOVE the radiator in pull mode or BELOW the radiator in push mode ?
Obviously a push-pull solution would be more efficient...more noisy but more efficient...I guess.
But not having the space to go for a push-pull option, which one would be better ? Pull or Push or it doesn't make any difference ?
Thanks
 

tived

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Hi tived,
Nice system you have there...and speaking of the "mess"....I will care less about fancy look...then important thing, to me, would be the overall efficiency of the system...so, if it work as it should, then its perfect !
I pay particular attention to avoid all the RGB/LED/etc.. kind of stuff....they would give zero increase in performance efficiency...and in the end I don't like them...it look like to be in a Discotheque kind of place...not for me ! :)
One question...how many drives you have installed in this PC ? Where ?
Thanks !
It currently has 6 NVME drives but room for twelve
4 on the motherboard
2x 4 on the AIC cards

henrik
 

MaxHughes

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94
One last question..
For the top radiators..does it make a difference if the fan is ABOVE the radiator in pull mode or BELOW the radiator in push mode ?
Obviously a push-pull solution would be more efficient...more noisy but more efficient...I guess.
But not having the space to go for a push-pull option, which one would be better ? Pull or Push or it doesn't make any difference ?
Thanks
They're rated on static pressure in a push config. Pull vacuum IDK. It's not tested.
 

Spartacus09

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Generally it is pretty negligible difference, but can result in a couple degrees loss/gain in performance.
Here's one example (that while a bit dated) is pretty representative of the differences in fan configurations, though a single hybrid 120mm rad for the test isn't fully represented for your setup:

1607319005466.png
 
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DanNeely

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I'm not well read on the cases that are out there right now, so I will leave recommendations of good ones to someone else.

That said, I will make a recommendation of what not to get.

I've been fighting with the Corsair 1000D. And sure, it is magnificent and large and fits lots of fans, but man it is build stupidly, and it is HEAVY (especially when filled with components and coolant) and has no handles, making it very difficult to lift.

I'd go with something else :p

With a big heavy case, you definitely want something with castors on the bottom. I've got a giant Case Labs (RIP) tower with a 560 rad mounted sideways (airflow is left to right) below the mobo, being able to roll means I only need to pick it up briefly to put it on a table to work on. Otherwise I'm just gently pushing while it rolls around.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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With a big heavy case, you definitely want something with castors on the bottom. I've got a giant Case Labs (RIP) tower with a 560 rad mounted sideways (airflow is left to right) below the mobo, being able to roll means I only need to pick it up briefly to put it on a table to work on. Otherwise I'm just gently pushing while it rolls around.
I've considered adding casters to mine, but then it won't fit under my desk 🤣
 

DanNeely

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I've considered adding casters to mine, but then it won't fit under my desk 🤣

Mine is beside my desk. I think it would barely fit under, but would be close enough I'd worry about scraping the finish.

More seriously, it'd lose the ability to treat its top as another table to pile clutter on. (All horizontal surfaces are tables in my home.) 🙄
 

Gibo69

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Thanks for the information about the fans.
They're rated on static pressure in a push config. Pull vacuum IDK. It's not tested.
Thanks.
On your top radiators have you gone push pull or only push ?
Unfortunately that guy with the Core X9 never showed up...but I see that TT has a "modern" version of that case:
https://www.thermaltakeusa.com/level-20-xt.html
Basically same size...only with glass :)eek:)....but, boy how much space you have !
 

MaxHughes

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Generally it is pretty negligible difference, but can result in a couple degrees loss/gain in performance.
Here's one example (that while a bit dated) is pretty representative of the differences in fan configurations, though a single hybrid 120mm rad for the test isn't fully represented for your setup:

View attachment 306427
Good to know for an AIO. But that's a skinny rad with a low fins per inch count and may or may not apply to a pro open loop thick rad with very high air flow resistance. IDK. Linus tried 8 push and 8 pull on a rad and didn't get much of anything for his effort.
 

Spartacus09

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Good to know for an AIO. But that's a skinny rad with a low fins per inch count and may or may not apply to a pro open loop thick rad with very high air flow resistance. IDK. Linus tried 8 push and 8 pull on a rad and didn't get much of anything for his effort.

Theres one with a custom loop dual pumps and 3x 360mm rad, which showed similar difference, about 0-1c higher for pull, and 4-5c lower for push pull at the higher rpm/heatloads (though I'm not sure about his testing methodology and if he's heat soaking 1080mm of cooling, which ain't nothing to eff with).

The consensus it seems to follows that its negligible difference for push or pull and minor improvement for push+pull.
So my opinion is do whichever best for your case/config and if you need absolutely maximum cooling do push+pull.

At the end of the day the flow rate (with little increase beyond 1GPM) and block effectiveness is going to have a larger impact on temps than the radiators and fan heat dissipation (as long as you have enough to handle the heatload).
Most workloads are short'ish bursts unless you're doing long workload number crunching.
 
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Gibo69

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Theres one with a custom loop dual pumps and 3x 360mm rad, which showed similar difference, about 0-1c higher for pull, and 4-5c lower for push pull at the higher rpm/heatloads (though I'm not sure about his testing methodology and if he's heat soaking 1080mm of cooling, which ain't nothing to eff with).

The consensus it seems to follows that its negligible difference for push or pull and minor improvement for push+pull.
So my opinion is do whichever best for your case/config and if you need absolutely maximum cooling do push+pull.

At the end of the day the flow rate (with little increase beyond 1GPM) and block effectiveness is going to have a larger impact on temps than the radiators and fan heat dissipation (as long as you have enough to handle the heatload).
Most workloads are short'ish bursts unless you're doing long workload number crunching.
Thank you very much.
Very helpful.
 

Gibo69

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So,
I have decided to buy the Thermaltake Core W200....plenty of space for both fans and radiators and drives...
It will fit under my desk too ! :LOL:
Hopefully by mid January will be here.
 

thesmokingman

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So,
I have decided to buy the Thermaltake Core W200....plenty of space for both fans and radiators and drives...
It will fit under my desk too ! :LOL:
Hopefully by mid January will be here.

Are you doing a dual system??
 

Gibo69

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Are you doing a dual system??
No...only a TR4 3960X and a RTX3090..but I like the possibility to mount all the rads and fans without having to compromise too much...and not least, lot of space for drives...
Apparently is out of production, but the store were I bought it state that the supplier has still two items on stock...we shall see..

With the Core W200 I can easily mount two 560 rads on top and having lot of fans...even going with three or four 560 if I want (2 more on the side)...now that would be definitely overkill...but going with two 560 would allow me to run fans at lower rpm...low noise...
From a spreadsheet I saw on internet, a 280W TDP CPU and a 350W TDP GPU if overclocked, you have to calculate a heat load of around 800-900W.... that mean 10x140mm fans whit the pump running at 0.5 GPM.. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5w1t7kanqykb6d9/radiators.zip?dl=0)

X9 is not available anymore and that guy that was willing to sell his case, never showed up...

Checked the O11, but man...I HATE those two USB ports at the bottom of the case....since I will place my system under my desk, those two ports would be unusable and too dangerous... I see the point if you have the case on the desk....but that would not work for me...and not sure you can fit 3xSSD + 3xHDD + 2 rads...

Was looking at the Phanteks Enthoo Elite... it is a very nice looking case...BUT...very expensive and I don't like the 200USD shipping case that I have to pay to receive it...and after looking at what some people did with their builds, it look is not a very good designed case for airflow...If you mount a big rad in the front panel, the airflow would resent that....If you put only fans, then you have only top and bottom for rads...and only at the bottom in push pull...on top maybe only thin radiators...and not a lot of space for drives..

Corsair 1000D.... nice, but all that glass.....
 

lopoetve

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No...only a TR4 3960X and a RTX3090..but I like the possibility to mount all the rads and fans without having to compromise too much...and not least, lot of space for drives...
Apparently is out of production, but the store were I bought it state that the supplier has still two items on stock...we shall see..

With the Core W200 I can easily mount two 560 rads on top and having lot of fans...even going with three or four 560 if I want (2 more on the side)...now that would be definitely overkill...but going with two 560 would allow me to run fans at lower rpm...low noise...
From a spreadsheet I saw on internet, a 280W TDP CPU and a 350W TDP GPU if overclocked, you have to calculate a heat load of around 800-900W.... that mean 10x140mm fans whit the pump running at 0.5 GPM.. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5w1t7kanqykb6d9/radiators.zip?dl=0)

X9 is not available anymore and that guy that was willing to sell his case, never showed up...

Checked the O11, but man...I HATE those two USB ports at the bottom of the case....since I will place my system under my desk, those two ports would be unusable and too dangerous... I see the point if you have the case on the desk....but that would not work for me...and not sure you can fit 3xSSD + 3xHDD + 2 rads...

Was looking at the Phanteks Enthoo Elite... it is a very nice looking case...BUT...very expensive and I don't like the 200USD shipping case that I have to pay to receive it...and after looking at what some people did with their builds, it look is not a very good designed case for airflow...If you mount a big rad in the front panel, the airflow would resent that....If you put only fans, then you have only top and bottom for rads...and only at the bottom in push pull...on top maybe only thin radiators...and not a lot of space for drives..

Corsair 1000D.... nice, but all that glass.....
I ignore the USB on the bottom. Rear has 4x 3.5" bays (hot swap), and there are at least 6 2.5" SSD mounts I know of without even looking into the O11-XL - and all those slots are on the back of the system, not in the main area. So yeah, plenty of room for rads AND all the drives :)
 

thesmokingman

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No...only a TR4 3960X and a RTX3090..but I like the possibility to mount all the rads and fans without having to compromise too much...and not least, lot of space for drives...
Apparently is out of production, but the store were I bought it state that the supplier has still two items on stock...we shall see..

With the Core W200 I can easily mount two 560 rads on top and having lot of fans...even going with three or four 560 if I want (2 more on the side)...now that would be definitely overkill...but going with two 560 would allow me to run fans at lower rpm...low noise...
From a spreadsheet I saw on internet, a 280W TDP CPU and a 350W TDP GPU if overclocked, you have to calculate a heat load of around 800-900W.... that mean 10x140mm fans whit the pump running at 0.5 GPM.. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5w1t7kanqykb6d9/radiators.zip?dl=0)

X9 is not available anymore and that guy that was willing to sell his case, never showed up...

Checked the O11, but man...I HATE those two USB ports at the bottom of the case....since I will place my system under my desk, those two ports would be unusable and too dangerous... I see the point if you have the case on the desk....but that would not work for me...and not sure you can fit 3xSSD + 3xHDD + 2 rads...

Was looking at the Phanteks Enthoo Elite... it is a very nice looking case...BUT...very expensive and I don't like the 200USD shipping case that I have to pay to receive it...and after looking at what some people did with their builds, it look is not a very good designed case for airflow...If you mount a big rad in the front panel, the airflow would resent that....If you put only fans, then you have only top and bottom for rads...and only at the bottom in push pull...on top maybe only thin radiators...and not a lot of space for drives..

Corsair 1000D.... nice, but all that glass.....

The W100 is a better fit if you're not doing a dual system.
 

Gibo69

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I ignore the USB on the bottom. Rear has 4x 3.5" bays (hot swap), and there are at least 6 2.5" SSD mounts I know of without even looking into the O11-XL - and all those slots are on the back of the system, not in the main area. So yeah, plenty of room for rads AND all the drives :)
Problem is that you can mount only two 360 rads if you use the side bracket for SSD...not sure two 360 are enough...
Would prefer 140 running slower...

 

DanNeely

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No...only a TR4 3960X and a RTX3090..but I like the possibility to mount all the rads and fans without having to compromise too much...and not least, lot of space for drives...
Apparently is out of production, but the store were I bought it state that the supplier has still two items on stock...we shall see..

Until you actually get shipping confirmation, I'd be cautious about that. A dozen years ago I tried to get a recently discontinued Thermaltake Mozart TX which took a half dozenish attempts, and ended with my not getting the variant I originally wanted as I cycled through a number of what turned out to be drop-shippers who hadn't updated their systems to note that it was discontinued and no longer variable from their upstream sources.
 

Gibo69

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Until you actually get shipping confirmation, I'd be cautious about that. A dozen years ago I tried to get a recently discontinued Thermaltake Mozart TX which took a half dozenish attempts, and ended with my not getting the variant I originally wanted as I cycled through a number of what turned out to be drop-shippers who hadn't updated their systems to note that it was discontinued and no longer variable from their upstream sources.
Yes i know the risk...
I trust this shop...has a very good reputation.
If it will not be available anymore I will have something else....
Screenshot_20201214-214834_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

tived

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there is really a shortage of large cases, at least here in Australia. I had hoped that my old Lian Li V2120 case would have sufficient, but it isn't suitable for a lot of water cooling, everything else, but that!

I was thinking about the W200 or the 100 myself, but there is no stock here. Maybe we need to think chillers instead ;-)
 

Gibo69

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Yes, definitely...they tend to go smaller.... I thought that the PC-V2120 would serve me well, even in the future, is nice built, lot of space and storage...but for those who need watercooling is not a case I would suggest....
 
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