TR4 3960X water cooling (and case) suggestion

Gibo69

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Hello,

I am in the process of building a new system based on the TR4 3960X CPU.

Currently I have the Lian-Li PC-V2120 case, but if need to go liquid, probably I will need to change it because I can only fit a 360 on top, with a maximum thickness (including fans) of 60mm...can you suggest a full tower that can fit a custom loop and 10 between 3.5" HDD and 2.5" SSD ?

Fans installed right now: 5x 120 (5 Silver wings, old models), 3x 140 (Noctua NF-A14PWM)

https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/lian-li-pc-v2120-review/1/
https://www.techspot.com/review/343-lian-li-pc-v2120/
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lian-li-pc-v2120/5.html

At the moment I decided to go with the Noctua NH-U14 dedicated air cooler, because is the best fit right now and the cheapest option.
In case it will not be enough, I would like some help in determining what heat load I should aim to determine which parts I should buy for the custom loop
Based on EKWB configurator, it look like I would have a heat load of 500W...but maybe to be on the safer side I should go for 600 or 700 ?

CPU block, these look like the best ones:
-Optimus Absolute threadripper 3+
-XSPC RayStorm Neo Waterblock sTRX4 Metal (don't like LED or RGB and all that stuff....quite old fashioned ! )
-Watercool Heatkiller IV Pro for Threadripper.

Radiators, it look like Hardware Labs and Alphacool are some of the bests...I read that thick radiators call for noisy fans (high rpm) meanwhile thin radiators are best when looking for quietness..is that right ?

Looking at Hardware Labs Nemesis 360GTS, it look like his capacity is rated at 1200W...that mean one of this radiator will be able to dissipate 3 time the heat load I need ???
It would be perfect since it has a thickness of only 29.6mm...but then...will only 3x120mm fans in push configuration be enough or it will be better a push-pull combo ? (and in this case, they will not fit..)

Thanks for any help and suggestions !
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I'm not well read on the cases that are out there right now, so I will leave recommendations of good ones to someone else.

That said, I will make a recommendation of what not to get.

I've been fighting with the Corsair 1000D. And sure, it is magnificent and large and fits lots of fans, but man it is build stupidly, and it is HEAVY (especially when filled with components and coolant) and has no handles, making it very difficult to lift.

I'd go with something else :p
 

Circumnavigate

Limp Gawd
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Dec 26, 2009
Messages
199
Hello,

I am in the process of building a new system based on the TR4 3960X CPU.

Currently I have the Lian-Li PC-V2120 case, but if need to go liquid, probably I will need to change it because I can only fit a 360 on top, with a maximum thickness (including fans) of 60mm...can you suggest a full tower that can fit a custom loop and 10 between 3.5" HDD and 2.5" SSD ?

Fans installed right now: 5x 120 (5 Silver wings, old models), 3x 140 (Noctua NF-A14PWM)

https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/lian-li-pc-v2120-review/1/
https://www.techspot.com/review/343-lian-li-pc-v2120/
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lian-li-pc-v2120/5.html

At the moment I decided to go with the Noctua NH-U14 dedicated air cooler, because is the best fit right now and the cheapest option.
In case it will not be enough, I would like some help in determining what heat load I should aim to determine which parts I should buy for the custom loop
Based on EKWB configurator, it look like I would have a heat load of 500W...but maybe to be on the safer side I should go for 600 or 700 ?

CPU block, these look like the best ones:
-Optimus Absolute threadripper 3+
-XSPC RayStorm Neo Waterblock sTRX4 Metal (don't like LED or RGB and all that stuff....quite old fashioned ! )
-Watercool Heatkiller IV Pro for Threadripper.

Radiators, it look like Hardware Labs and Alphacool are some of the bests...I read that thick radiators call for noisy fans (high rpm) meanwhile thin radiators are best when looking for quietness..is that right ?

Looking at Hardware Labs Nemesis 360GTS, it look like his capacity is rated at 1200W...that mean one of this radiator will be able to dissipate 3 time the heat load I need ???
It would be perfect since it has a thickness of only 29.6mm...but then...will only 3x120mm fans in push configuration be enough or it will be better a push-pull combo ? (and in this case, they will not fit..)

Thanks for any help and suggestions !
Here is some data I found on radiators
 

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Zarathustra[H]

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Here is some data I found on radiators

I find that charts like these are never enough to predict performance, as it depends so much on fain pairings.

Different radiator designs scale radically different depending on the fan attached to them

A thin, low FPI radiator may perform OK with a lower static pressure fan on one side of the radiator in push or pull, but may fail completely on a thicker, higher FPI radiator.

For some of the thicker higher FPI ones, a high static pressure fan in push-pull configuration may be an absolute necessity.

I had one of Alpahcools Monsta radiators in my old build, but honestly, I was disappointed. Even with my high static pressure Noctua Insdustrial fans in push-pull I was never quite able to get the most out of it.

These days my philosophy is to get 45mm - 60mm thick radiators with medium fin desity and powerful high static pressure fans, preferably in push-pull. If they are too loud, just run them slower at idle :p
 

MaxHughes

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I love what I've got and built it with increasing the number of cores, RAM, M2 drives and gpus in mind. Watercool Heatkiller Pro IV, Two Heatkiller 150mm res/D5 pumps, Two EK 45x140x420 rads mounted in the top, Watercool VRM block, EK FC Radeon VII waterblock, 12x16mm EK tube and fittings, NO runs NO drips NO errors. Six 140 rad fans on top pushing hot air out, two 200mm in front, four 120mm in the bottom, two 140 in the back. P/S Asus Thor 1200watt. Case: discontinued TT Core X9 E-ATX MOBO tray. Heat rises! All the fans push air in except the six rad fans on top. As you up the power with bigger core counts or hotter gpus just use louder fans with a higher static pressure. TR heaven! That Watercool copper block flanked by G Skill Trident Royal gold looks great too. I may add an EK 120 rad and an EK120 flat res pump for the VRM block. Always get the optional res top with two fittings. And install a drain tube and fill tube before you fill the water loops. Best wishes,max
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I love what I've got and built it with increasing the number of cores, RAM, M2 drives and gpus in mind. Watercool Heatkiller Pro IV, Two Heatkiller 150mm res/D5 pumps, Two EK 45x140x420 rads mounted in the top, Watercool VRM block, EK FC Radeon VII waterblock, 12x16mm EK tube and fittings, NO runs NO drips NO errors. Six 140 rad fans on top pushing hot air out, two 200mm in front, four 120mm in the bottom, two 140 in the back. P/S Asus Thor 1200watt. Case: discontinued TT Core X9 E-ATX MOBO tray. Heat rises! All the fans push air in except the six rad fans on top. As you up the power with bigger core counts or hotter gpus just use louder fans with a higher static pressure. TR heaven! That Watercool copper block flanked by G Skill Trident Royal gold looks great too. I may add an EK 120 rad and an EK120 flat res pump for the VRM block. Always get the optional res top with two fittings. And install a drain tube and fill tube before you fill the water loops. Best wishes,max

To me my Threadripper was all about the PCIe lanes. Being able to add multiple PCIe cards and M.2 cards was key for me.

I really have no need for 24C48T. That part is completely wasted on me.

I really wish AMD would make a low core count (8C/16T?) Threadripper with binned cores to give max clocks, and still keep the large number of PCIe lanes.

That would be my perfect CPU.
 

Hakaba

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Cases? Fractal Define 7 XL or Meshify S2 XL.

both are capable of EATX, 12-16 hard drives, and 480mm rads.

Probably weigh 100+ lbs afterwards.
 
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MaxHughes

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To me my Threadripper was all about the PCIe lanes. Being able to add multiple PCIe cards and M.2 cards was key for me.

I really have no need for 24C48T. That part is completely wasted on me.

I really wish AMD would make a low core count (8C/16T?) Threadripper with binned cores to give max clocks, and still keep the large number of PCIe lanes.

That would be my perfect CPU.
And I agree! Dropping the 8/12/16 core TRs was due to utube and a lack of sales. The TR Pro series looked like the solution with 12/16 core models with 128 cpu lanes and eight channel memory in production, but no DIY yet. :) That Leveno Pro board looks like a server board and has all the PCIe sockets close together. EK gpu water blocks would make that no problem. The EK Radeon VII water block fitting on the new Radeon PRO VII card would be great and their Infinity fabric connector working on two gpus would be even better.
 

Spartacus09

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If you're not planning on overclocking and don't want to go full water there is an upper echelon of air: https://www.icegiantcooling.com/prosiphonelite
Its made specifically for cooling larger multi die chips like the threadrippers, it is pricier than a noctua but probably 1/3-1/2 the cost of a custom loop.

The LTT video is pretty useful in explaining about it, just make sure you have dimm clearance and top exhaust in your case selection.
 

lopoetve

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I'm not well read on the cases that are out there right now, so I will leave recommendations of good ones to someone else.

That said, I will make a recommendation of what not to get.

I've been fighting with the Corsair 1000D. And sure, it is magnificent and large and fits lots of fans, but man it is build stupidly, and it is HEAVY (especially when filled with components and coolant) and has no handles, making it very difficult to lift.

I'd go with something else :p
Had the same complaints with my 800D back in the day. I'll second this. If it's never ever moving...

I did the O11-Dynamic XL.
 

Gibo69

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Hello everyone !
Wow thanks a lot, so many suggestions !
I might add that I probably would not plan to liquid cool the GPU...only the CPU and maybe the VRM too, but that's it.

Zarathustra[H] : Obsidian 1000D... I see what you mean..I've read many reviews of people that worked with this case... and btw...too much glass....👍...and about the TR4...same for me...could use a Ryzen 9 5XXX , but they have so few lanes...you install a M.2 addon card and you are done...meanwhile the TR4 can allow you to expand your system in abetter way ( ..and you pay for it, of course..)

Circumnavigate: Nice data you have there... how I can translate those numbers to Watts ?

MaxHughes: WOW quite a system you have there !! I've looked at TT cases..even at the Core X9...man, it would have been the case for me !...do you know of a similar case ? One question...how it is the noise coming out of your beast under full load ? I would need a quite solution, or my wife would kill me !😁

Hakaba: checked the Fractal Define 7 XL...read that it has a bad airflow...bad for thermals, and if you use the HDD case, then the GPU would be limited to 280mm max...and with a RTX 3XXX you talk about 300mm min... same for Meshify 2 XL unfortunately... I know Fractal Design, I've built my wife PC with one of their case... nice products and very quite !

One question...the supposed "capacity" of the HLabs Nemesis GTS 360 (1200W) what they mean ?
I always used Noctua fans and they suggest to use the NF-12F fan for radiators..and I like that this fan is quite..22.4 dB max..
noctua_nf_a12x25_pq_compared.png
 

Spartacus09

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Then considering the 3970x they tested generates more heat than your 3960x if you get a big enough case the icegiant might be an option for you.
If you do stick with custom loop I'm definitely a fan of the O11D and O11D-XL, it has great airflow and multiple options for 360mm rad placement.
 

Gibo69

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Then considering the 3970x they tested generates more heat than your 3960x if you get a big enough case the icegiant might be an option for you.
If you do stick with custom loop I'm definitely a fan of the O11D and O11D-XL, it has great airflow and multiple options for 360mm rad placement.
I already have the Noctua...and in case is not enough I will go custom loop.
I will have a look at the Lian Li..
 

Gibo69

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And a million options for drives.
You mean the Lian-Li O11D-XL?

BTW...I found one Core X9 on ebay..a guy living 20 min away from me has one and for a good price..will go take a look...
But will look at the Lian-Li too...
 

lopoetve

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You mean the Lian-Li O11D-XL?

BTW...I found one Core X9 on ebay..a guy living 20 min away from me has one and for a good price..will go take a look...
But will look at the Lian-Li too...
Yes. 4 3.5 in the back, piles of 2.5 around the thing, and you can stuff others in where needed.
 

thesmokingman

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Yep !
One question...how noisy is your system under full load ?

Hmm, that is a rather simplistic question given the complexity of the system. I'm not sure you realize that the system at full tilt is drawing around 1300w. The system noise is not too bad given the fans and rads, but you are not gonna forget that the fans are humming along. But the question itself comes down to how much money you want to throw at it to support whatever power load vs noise one's willing to put up with.
 

Gibo69

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Hmm, that is a rather simplistic question given the complexity of the system. I'm not sure you realize that the system at full tilt is drawing around 1300w. The system noise is not too bad given the fans and rads, but you are not gonna forget that the fans are humming along. But the question itself comes down to how much money you want to throw at it to support whatever power load vs noise one's willing to put up with.
I see what you mean.....the fact is that I don't have the knowledge to know how much stuff (and which parts) would be necessary to have an efficient system ( like saying temps not > 75 degrees C on full load) with an acceptable noise level..
I just checked the noise level of my actual system (just surfing internet), well it is around 35-38 dB....that would be good...
 

thesmokingman

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I see what you mean.....the fact is that I don't have the knowledge to know how much stuff (and which parts) would be necessary to have an efficient system ( like saying temps not > 75 degrees C on full load) with an acceptable noise level..
I just checked the noise level of my actual system (just surfing internet), well it is around 35-38 dB....that would be good...

That's unrealistic... to have temps below 75c at full load. You'd need some sort of extreme cooling, chiller, peltier chiller, etc etc. The cpu at stock is 280w... but that's not the issue which is that the heat is trapped and it is extremely difficult to extract said heat w/o some sort of extreme cooling.
 

Gibo69

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That's unrealistic... to have temps below 75c at full load. You'd need some sort of extreme cooling, peltier chiller, etc etc.
So, since you have a 3970X....what kind of temps I should expect under load with a good cooling system ?

Is it right that the thicker the radiator, the louder the fans will be?
So maybe going with more thinner radiators would help in this regard...
What you think ?
 

Gibo69

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That's unrealistic... to have temps below 75c at full load. You'd need some sort of extreme cooling, chiller, peltier chiller, etc etc. The cpu at stock is 280w... but that's not the issue which is that the heat is trapped and it is extremely difficult to extract said heat w/o some sort of extreme cooling.
And another question, regarding your build...
Did your 4x M.2 drives in the AIC card are set as a RAID or as independent drives ?
 

thesmokingman

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So, since you have a 3970X....what kind of temps I should expect under load with a good cooling system ?

Is it right that the thicker the radiator, the louder the fans will be?
So maybe going with more thinner radiators would help in this regard...
What you think ?
First, the rad doesn't make noise, it's the fans that do. Thicker rads generally have higher cooling capacity vs thinner rads in general w/o getting into thermal mass and fin densities.

I don't know what workloads you are doing, but rmonster can do render jobs that take five hours or more to complete. Thus it's cooling needs to not get heat soaked and maintain cooling for hours on end. The dual 480s a great job given the high demands placed upon them. The reality is that after a few hours the air in the room will get heated and the system starts to hotbox itself, so it'll need real air movement, the room...

And another question, regarding your build...
Did your 4x M.2 drives in the AIC card are set as a RAID or as independent drives ?
The drives are setup in a RAID 0, however you could run them as individual drives.
 

Gibo69

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First, the rad doesn't make noise, it's the fans that do. Thicker rads generally have higher cooling capacity vs thinner rads in general w/o getting into thermal mass and fin densities.

I don't know what workloads you are doing, but rmonster can do render jobs that take five hours or more to complete. Thus it's cooling needs to not get heat soaked and maintain cooling for hours on end. The dual 480s a great job given the high demands placed upon them. The reality is that after a few hours the air in the room will get heated and the system starts to hotbox itself, so it'll need real air movement, the room...


The drives are setup in a RAID 0, however you could run them as individual drives.
Yes, I meant the fans to cool the big radiators...

Don't plan to run that type of workloads....more like lightroom/ photoshops..some video encoding and some gaming.
Was thinking more at overclocking than long hours workloads...

In regard to the M.2 addon card...I have a Asus Zenith II extreme Alpha mainboard...check page 3-16 and 3-17....do you think it will work too on my mainboard ?
 

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thesmokingman

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Yea it'll work, as the whole threadripper line was built with bifuricatrion support from the start.
 

thesmokingman

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Thank you very much.

For example, what you'll do to cool only a 3960X ?
How many radiators ? The more the better ?

At a minimum a 360mm rad, like a HWL GTX. It really depends though on whatever that will fit in your case.
 

Gibo69

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At a minimum a 360mm rad, like a HWL GTX. It really depends though on whatever that will fit in your case.
Well let put it this way....what optimal setup would you recommend ? Then I will look for a case where I can install all those parts...
 

Hakaba

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Since a monetary limit was never mentioned. Mountain Mods makes large enough cases/add-ons, that you should find one to your liking.

Me personally, I would not put my NAS drives (sounds like what is going on here) into the same chassis I am stuffing water into. A leak can take my cpu, gpu, or mobo (all replaceable). However, data is not.
 

thesmokingman

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Since a monetary limit was never mentioned. Mountain Mods makes large enough cases/add-ons, that you should find one to your liking.

Me personally, I would not put my NAS drives (sounds like what is going on here) into the same chassis I am stuffing water into. A leak can take my cpu, gpu, or mobo (all replaceable). However, data is not.

And a fire could burn everything down. Learn to back up offsite, etc, whatever.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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And a fire could burn everything down. Learn to back up offsite, etc, whatever.

I originally moved to network based storage in 2010 for two reasons. Firstly I wanted the noise of the hard drives out of my office, and secondly I wanted to play with ZFS and have it be accessible from both my Linux and windows boot.

I don't think I'd ever even consider putting mass storage on a desktop again, but I agree with the above, redundant drives are not a backup and a separate and preferably remote backup of all important data is still needed.
 

Hakaba

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And a fire could burn everything down. Learn to back up offsite, etc, whatever.

Yep, I have 3 copies of data. One active (8 disk raidz2, wd reds), one local backup (8 disk raidz2, iron wolfs), and one remote that is 7k miles away (4 disk raidz1). All Freenas.
 

Gibo69

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Hi,
thanks for all the good suggestions.
Regarding the drives on the desktop... they are not the main NAS device...just storage for a lot of stuff that I need to work on.... incredible how cheap are HDD with big amount of storage...

I have a NAS Synology connected to our home network...

Going back to the cooling stuff...for a 3960X how many radiators you would mount ? Ev what type...
Thanks
 
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A single 360 (or 420 if you really want to go overkill) for cpu only. If you have plans to add a gpu later on, dual 360s or 420s.
 

MaxHughes

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Hello everyone !
Wow thanks a lot, so many suggestions !
I might add that I probably would not plan to liquid cool the GPU...only the CPU and maybe the VRM too, but that's it.

Zarathustra[H] : Obsidian 1000D... I see what you mean..I've read many reviews of people that worked with this case... and btw...too much glass....👍...and about the TR4...same for me...could use a Ryzen 9 5XXX , but they have so few lanes...you install a M.2 addon card and you are done...meanwhile the TR4 can allow you to expand your system in abetter way ( ..and you pay for it, of course..)

Circumnavigate: Nice data you have there... how I can translate those numbers to Watts ?

MaxHughes: WOW quite a system you have there !! I've looked at TT cases..even at the Core X9...man, it would have been the case for me !...do you know of a similar case ? One question...how it is the noise coming out of your beast under full load ? I would need a quite solution, or my wife would kill me !😁

Hakaba: checked the Fractal Define 7 XL...read that it has a bad airflow...bad for thermals, and if you use the HDD case, then the GPU would be limited to 280mm max...and with a RTX 3XXX you talk about 300mm min... same for Meshify 2 XL unfortunately... I know Fractal Design, I've built my wife PC with one of their case... nice products and very quite !

One question...the supposed "capacity" of the HLabs Nemesis GTS 360 (1200W) what they mean ?
I always used Noctua fans and they suggest to use the NF-12F fan for radiators..and I like that this fan is quite..22.4 dB max..
View attachment 305072
No noise complaint. But I keep the core X9 12 feet across the room. With your cpu you might need thick rads and higher static pressure fans. I never found one case louder than another. What I have done many times is buy a bigger case/ P/S /case fans/rads etc. Bigger fans are quiter than small fans cranked up. Big P/S with huge heat sinks run cooler and at a higher efficiency than a small P/S cranked up all the time. I bought the core X9 for the 200mm fans on the front and room for two EK 420 rads. 6 140mm fans are quiter than 6 120mm fans cranked up. I did pull all the 5.25 inch, 3.5 inch and 2.5 inch drive bays out.
 
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