Tim Sweeney on the PPU

[Spewn]

Exactly
Yeah somehow I always picture these guys as being huge, manly men with deep voices. I guess because their "stature" in the PC world is so huge. Problem is, they're all just geeks. Extremely intelligent, likely very rich geeks. But they're still geeks.
At first I was going to call BS on your comment, but actually I might believe it. I can't find how many copies of any of the UT games were sold, but if UT2k3 sold 3,000,000 copies, and 300,000 people play online with it, your 10% number makes sense. Surprising really, since it's a multiplayer game, after all.
I hope you're right, but I doubt there will be PPU specific levels in the SP portion that won't make it into MP. I had a thought though:
since UE3 supports the PPU, perhaps the modding community will be able to make a *real* PPU level? Let's hope.....

Figures can lie, and liars can figure. (Sorry, it's an expression, not calling you or GoldenTiger a liar)

That 10% number might make sense if it weren't for the fact that the 300,000 people playing it online number is gathered at one time based on the "estimated"(IIRC) number of people who play the game regularly. It gets worse if that's 300,000 concurrent players. Either way while the 300,000 people playing online might make the 10% number seem true, the flip side of that is the assumption/implication that 90% of the people who bought the game didn't play online but instead played single player. That number could be completely incorrect, and that's the number that counts. If you figure that it took some time to sell 3mil copies, if that 300,000 number was estimated after all 3mil had sold, it doesn't take into account any of the people who played it when they first bought it, but now no longer play it.

There may be 10% of the copies sold playing online at a given time, but the other 90% could be sitting on a shelf for all we know, and not playing single-player botmatches.

 

[Netrat33]

Actually, its the 2nd time I have interviewed someone Yes I know I'm not good, and I don't expect anyone to think I am, as that is not important... but at least I have the balls to go up to a big shot like Sweeney and ask him for an interview all by myself.

Keep it up

One tip I recommend for you though is to not chew gum. Chewing gum in interviews makes you (anyone chewing) look like a cow and sort of distracting

Make eye contact. Lot of times you were looking off many directions. It makes you seem like you didn't care.

Keep it up though. I'm sure you were nervous but it goes away with practice and avoid doing little things you know that might make YOU seem in a bad light will make you more confident.

 

[prtzlboy]

lots of pretty good tidbits in that interview actually. Good questions. I find it's always nice to hear what people who are actually developing games think of current and future hardware/software.

 

[oqvist]

I got to distracted why on earth do he chew the gum for 10 minutes and stick out his tongue and all kind of maners. Why not just do a straight interview without trying to look cool or relaxed or what it is he tries to show...

 

[arentol]

heh....saw this coming a mile away but no1 believed me.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029400717&postcount=10

Told you all so.

Wheres Spoudazo, I want him to eat his words.

Not arguing with your call on this, but I think most people would not consider 6 days early to be "a mile away". At least a few weeks out would be the earliest "a mile away" could reasonably be used, preferably 2 months out if possible... Like my call with the US release date of the PS3. In May 2005 I predicted an Oct. 2006 release at the earliest, not August like all the press releases were saying. 10 months before the official change of release date is definitely "a mile away". For something called a week out, you should just say "Ha! I called it last week but nobody would believe me!"

Otherwise though, your original post calling this a week early was very nice. Excellent analysis and reasoning.

 

[pakotlar]

22 in July

Hey, happy birthday. I'll be 22 in March of 2008.

 

[pakotlar]

I got to distracted why on earth do he chew the gum for 10 minutes and stick out his tongue and all kind of maners. Why not just do a straight interview without trying to look cool or relaxed or what it is he tries to show...

Hey, upload your interview with Time Sweeney and we'll compare.

 

[SuperGee]

Yes doesn't sound so promissing for PPU.
But look at it with your feet at the ground.

But first on UT isue. I bought the Old UT when it was already old game but never played it originaly with laser crap berserker? etc. And such, because I do'n't like That kind of game play and theme. The reason is mostly I ám not good in fast pace bunny hopping very close combat. I'am to slow for that Deathmatch frantic. Prefer slow peace tactical FPS combat at long to medium range. and realistic moving CQC. After installation I put Tactical Ops mod on top of it. Playing CTF in my home Lan with weapons based on real gun's. with Bot's. More a slow pace gameplay. And my 8500DV could do it 1800X1440 on my 19"CRT. Ideal for identifing teammates from far.
So For UT2007 I would buy it but possibly not play it as it is, maybe try it. But use a Tactical shooter mod on it. Like a slow pace jungle or Graw SC OFP GR mod. And play it against Bot's or Lan mates. I guess I am one of those kind off gamer wich is not much online gaming. So I need that DC or Quad CPU for Bot AI power . Or hoping those UT2k7 Bot's are very Efficient compared to those BF2 Bot's.
So I'am more a exception to the rule of online games.

Most of al I am curriouse about is the PPU possibilities in Unreal3Editor. Can modders make PPU enabled Gameplay map's? Single Player or Lan aimed PPU enable Total conversions. Hope it can. The only online game I''ve Played as online is AA series because it was free. Cod2, played it pure as Single player. Farcry dito.

Crysis video. Yes very impresive indeed. Like Jungle games. Just for the Eye candy, Jungle done right. I would buy it. Would upgrade to for vista and DX10 hardware to. If the gameplay is allright, it got a go for me.

But is it so much Physics you see in it. To me it looks more like extensive Vertex shader pixelshader mayham. Espacialy fire with smoke, With some Physics inter action on the Vertexshader part. Game could extensivly use Vertexshaders. DX9 hardware is more Pixel shader minded. But still have some fix Vertexshaders. Unified shader DX10 the dev's can balance Vertext en Pixsel shader use. witch boost performance alot over DX9 hardware And so kick up the game performance. See not much bullit interaction but you can shoot a big tree or large bush leave off. Not so exclusivly. The nade interaction looks more like basicly the same interaction as in graw but isntead of Bushes/tree. Traficlight and other mast and paal interact on explosions.
Nice done. But looks like same technical thing.
What's uniek in this video is the interaction from leaves with other objects This Physics is uniek. It certanly add to jungle emersion a Feature that adds to the game. Never seen befor. Like in Graw you can't shoot independently big leaves out of the tree's in the city.
But this is only one of the dozen Physics feature you can put in a game.
Think this is DX10 strong point. And the Crysis PhysX Vertex shader guru's did a well inhouse implementation. The jungle render specialist's. The GPU physic use could be the Vertex shader part. In DirecX 10 unified it could be a double performance boost.

But don't forget what PPU in cellfactors clothes does. Shreding clothes to Peaces. in crysis its a large interacting leaves. In Cell Factor to jungle interpolation for Crisis. Bullit would rip throug leave tear them appart just like clothes in a realistic finer detail. I didn't see that. The predator thing. Also I miss the gatling gun to do so. a M249 saw could do such ting lightly fashion.
This is a powerfull Physics needed feature Somethin PPU is well suited for.
So totaly Not like Predator style. where there is small object leave shredding interaction. Is there a HD vid of this running it in slowmotion. to examine it in deeper detail?

 

[gsboriqua]

TBH, I'm seeing great and well implemented Physics in games like Crytek, and even the Source game Dark Messiah of Might and Magic which is using old Havok looks like it has great use of Physics in the gameplay that I'm wondering about the PPU. I could see it go so that gameplay Physics remains on the CPU and then you get that Havok FX stuff for effects but I don't know. What concerns me with Havok FX is the cost. Your GPU isn't going to work as well as it would for graphics if its doing Physics and from what havok and Nvidia where saying before, even the Physics may not be the best it could be with one GPU. This would kind of push you toward getting an SLi setup and that means 2x great graphics card when previously one would be good, and another graphics card is pricier than a PPU card.

How do people reckon this will turn out then?

I believe ATI's stance was that you could throw in an x1300 or some $99 card and make it do the physics calcs. I keep saying it everytime I chime in to these threads, but the price for a PPU card is just too great for it go main stream.

As for cell factor over the net, it can be done and without a PPU to boot! Makes you wonder just what are they selling you??

 

[hughJ]

As for cell factor over the net, it can be done and without a PPU to boot! Makes you wonder just what are they selling you??

A PCI slot dust cover Also doubles as a motherboard warmer.

 

[SuperGee]

I believe ATI's stance was that you could throw in an x1300 or some $99 card and make it do the physics calcs. I keep saying it everytime I chime in to these threads, but the price for a PPU card is just too great for it go main stream.

True. But GPU is already a well oiled bussnes witch finds it's roots in the first Voodoo Who kick start that tech market. Only one model and a SLI option.
Ageia is just starting in a brand new PPU market. In a less optimistic situation.
And as such with low volume seals to start with, it can't bring a compleet line of budged to mid to high-end to extreem produkts. The market for PPU must grow first. And the support and exception in the market. That takes time or will not happen. But can;t be done intantly on release.
Do'nt know how Havok FX performance compare to PPU.
But then again if Havok FX GPU are a bit cheaper its all eyscandy Physics.
PPU has the potention for Gameplay Physic.

The Pro of GPU based Physics is. Its already there and with a compleet line.
The con of PPU its new every market kickstard is hard. And just like Voodoo first aimd at game enthausiast wich are more prepeared to upgrade for there games. Not aimd at the masses yet.

As for cell factor over the net, it can be done and without a PPU to boot! Makes you wonder just what are they selling you??

I notice that a CPU can do easly some rigidbody collision with 200 or more object's.
But Phsyics is a very broad fenomena.
There are couple of dozen Physics features to implement in a game simutainlesly and in what detail and in what Physics load. It all adds up.
CF gives 3 major Physics features some rigid body a CPU can do, some fluid and a cloth spanned between two mast. This sound not to heavy. Plus software does'nt do Liquid and cloths in CF. But can be tested because with PhsyX acceleration fluid and Cloths can be disabled.
For the looks off it.This is Not something that push PPU to it knees but it's utilizing some of its power.

Now to CF, add more characters like Gi- janes with long hair, jet another Phsyics feature. Destructable terrain, yet another Physics effect And objects.yet a already used feature, but a higher detaild feature, the Object in game are not so destrucable in a decent detail. Some Forest or jungel. More object to interact with, pump up the Physics load. And a way bigger map.
Weapon ballistic Physics.
All adds up.
For now CF do a lot more then graw.
But push it PPU to its limits?
So there is so much not encounted for so I wait for benchtools that push the hardware to it's limit's to get a good indication of it's potention and how CPU Single/DualCore compare to it.

So I first wait till they Patch 3Dmark2006 with a Physics tests. Wich isolate the PPU component and give it load it get hot from. These test in software are also very heavy CPU test. because CPU must act as a reference.Also those Phsyics test must come in two dissiplines als in game tech demo. Practical bench. Physics load influence on G-card load.But also pure synthetic. And a big viarity of test to bench different Physics features and different mixes of those, as they could occure in games. So in a synthetic way and in a game demo wich pushes the G-Card and CPU to. Like in reallife games.

To get a good overall. picture.

I wonder what of tech is used in PPU and hou it stand out against SM3.0 Pixel shaders.

 

[Catalan]

Most of all I am curriouse about is the PPU possibilities in Unreal3Editor. Can modders make PPU enabled Gameplay map's?

That's a question worth repeating. UT2k7 could still be the "Killer PPU App," so long as you can set up gameplay physics with UE3 itself. The mod community may take care of the rest.

 

[jebo_4jc]

That's a question worth repeating. UT2k7 could still be the "Killer PPU App," so long as you can set up gameplay physics with UE3 itself. The mod community may take care of the rest.

Yup. I'd love to see what good modders could do with our PPUs.....makes me excited just thinking about it.

The good news is, I believe Epic has said the actual UE3 engine supports the PPU, not just UT2k7. I'm willing to bet Epic won't let us down here.

 

[Terra]

Yup. I'd love to see what good modders could do with our PPUs.....makes me excited just thinking about it.

The good news is, I believe Epic has said the actual UE3 engine supports the PPU, not just UT2k7. I'm willing to bet Epic won't let us down here.

Few games have made me go WOW...
GLQuake was the first.
Unreal on a Voodoo2 was the second.
Heres hoping that the UE3(with a PPU) will be the third

Terra...

 

[Frosteh]

I think some of you have quite gracefully missed the more important aspect of the unreal 3 engine supporting the PPU, and that is when the engine is licenced to make another 50 odd games all those games (multiplayer OR singleplayer) will have built in support for the PPU.

UT isn't even an especially popular game anymore, I don't know why there's so many people raving about multiplayer online with the PPU.

 

[SuperGee]

Yup. I'd love to see what good modders could do with our PPUs.....makes me excited just thinking about it.

The good news is, I believe Epic has said the actual UE3 engine supports the PPU, not just UT2k7. I'm willing to bet Epic won't let us down here.

Don't know if Unreal3Ed supports it. Could be not but I hope it does.
But other titles using the Unreal 3 engine and with Full source support can use the PhysX API in full. So they can use gameplay Physics Like in Heavenly modified licenced engin