Thoughts on this university?

[DarkDubzs]

Copy from Tom's Hardware.

First of all, i should say what area of IT i specifically want to work in: Networking and Information Systems. I want to become a Network Engineer, but i know it will take years of experience, gotta climb the ladder like everyone else. Okay, so the place im thinking of attending now is Neumont University in Salt Lake City, Utah. At first i was really not thinking of seriously going there, since i live in Southern California, and moving to Utah... i dont know, i still dont actually. But the more i look into it, the better it sounds, more perfect it seems, and the more i seriously want to go! UGH, why cant there be one in SoCal!?

Not sure about accreditation, but does that really matter? Not like im going to be transferring to a State College or anything anyways. But does it matter to employers?

So the reviews here seem pretty much as glowing as the sun, take a look. Here is the BSIS catalog, i plan on getting that degree if i do attend. And here is the most recent catalog, go to page 70 of the catalog or page 70 of your Adobe PDF reader for the tuition and fees. I did the quick math and its going to be about $90k for my Bachelors, BSIS, but thats before any financial aid, i still have to do my FAFSA, and my parents are pretty low income on paper, but we are actually living quite comfortably, nevertheless, they claim their annual income to be under $20k, not sure if thats true, but if it is, I should get a hefty chunk of change from free financial aid, right? Im also going to work for a year after i graduate (HS Senior right now) to save for a car, and college obviously, and that year will give me time to do a sh*t load of scholarship opportunities. FYI, my parents will be unable to financially support me, so it'll be all on me, but i believe if i actually get my sh*t done, i can afford it, and entry level IT jobs can pay not too badly... hopefully i get one of those good paying jobs though lol. I also love how there is a hands on, team, and project focus on their programs, because i learn the best through hands on experience, especially in technology and computer stuff.

Sorry for so much text, but what do you guys think about it? Should i really go? My biggest fear(s) is that it will be a waste- as in i will learn nothing, not learn enough to be industry competent, employers will not like the school on my resume, or i will get ripped off. Do you guys think this will happen? Will this be a good school to attend to get a serious IT/Networking job and to be able to get into high position IT jobs? I know i will need to get certifications, but set that aside for now while thinking if the school will be taken seriously by employers.

Please leave any help and feedback at all. I really need some guidance and help right now, especially industry pro's. Thank you so much. Sorry for the big block of text

 

[Romale23]

join the army reserves as a network guy, pay to get g.i. Bill, use that to goto school, after you graduate go warrant officer for network tech, at end of your warrant school they will pay for you to take cissp , have degree and cissp almost no debt

 

[Dangman]

As a fellow SoCal resident and someone who also wanted to get into IT at one point (don't care about IT any more), let me say this: SoCal is an extremely tough job market for IT. Especially for new IT personnel. So you're going to need a lot of extra paper to help get your foot through the door. From what I've seen of my college acquaintances who graduated with the same degree as mine (Computer Information Systems), the ones who did an internship while in college had far far better job opportunities than those who didn't do an internship. In addition, actually doing programming work outside of class for fun or for practical use helped many of those acquaintances get jobs as well. Also, joining on-campus IT related clubs also helped many get their foot in the door as well. Certs helped some get jobs as well. The college acquaintances who didn't do any of the things I've mentioned never got a solid job in IT.

These threads may be of some help to you:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1773026
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1767634
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1766830

 

[artbird309]

join the army reserves as a network guy, pay to get g.i. Bill, use that to goto school, after you graduate go warrant officer for network tech, at end of your warrant school they will pay for you to take cissp , have degree and cissp almost no debt

You have to be careful with this now, the government is really starting to cut back any and all tuition assistance programs. You also want to make sure the military is the right choice for you and you can meet the requirements.

That is like what I did, I joined the National Guard as a 25U (SIGNAL SUPPORT SYSTEMS SPECIALIST) and the Army and National Guard has helped my pay for my college up until this last semester when the new rules became effective and they wouldn't pay for all my classes. But my tuition is much lower, it has cost about $55K to get my BS

I am a currently a senior at a regional campus of a big ten school going to graduate with a BS in Informatics this May. I think it can really depend on the school you attend but I have not really learned much from my college classes besides basic Java programing. Most of my knowledge has came from working with the systems/equipment at home, learning on my own (reading book, forums, and online video courses), or through my part time jobs.

I currently work at my school as a second tier student technician, I support students, staff, and faculty with any technology related problem. In the last week I have done things from fix projectors, pull 16 new CAT 6A network drops, and implement group policy objects. I have learned so much more about the technology in my job then anything from my classes.

This is just my two cents.

 

[Romale23]

You have to be careful with this now, the government is really starting to cut back any and all tuition assistance programs. You also want to make sure the military is the right choice for you and you can meet the requirements.

That is like what I did, I joined the National Guard as a 25U (SIGNAL SUPPORT SYSTEMS SPECIALIST) and the Army and National Guard has helped my pay for my college up until this last semester when the new rules became effective and they wouldn't pay for all my classes. But my tuition is much lower, it has cost about $55K to get my BS

I am a currently a senior at a regional campus of a big ten school going to graduate with a BS in Informatics this May. I think it can really depend on the school you attend but I have not really learned much from my college classes besides basic Java programing. Most of my knowledge has came from working with the systems/equipment at home, learning on my own (reading book, forums, and online video courses), or through my part time jobs.

I currently work at my school as a second tier student technician, I support students, staff, and faculty with any technology related problem. In the last week I have done things from fix projectors, pull 16 new CAT 6A network drops, and implement group policy objects. I have learned so much more about the technology in my job then anything from my classes.

This is just my two cents.

Yeah you do got to be careful, thats why i specifically mentioned buying the Montgomery GI bill instead of relying on the post 911 one. As long as you get it put in your contract your good. Then you can use TA as you can use it, and use your GI Bill for everything else (or at same time)

 

[Sage2k]

90k$ for a bachelors sounds like alot to me. Does that include living expenses or is that just tuition?
How will you pay for living expenses?

What will it cost you to get a bachelor from a local college? You might be better off doing that, and studying networking on your own or finding a local IT job to learn from.


Found a student loan calculator:

Loan Balance: $90,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $90,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 5.00%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $40.00


Monthly Loan Payment: $954.59
Number of Payments: 120


Cumulative Payments: $114,550.74
Total Interest Paid: $24,550.74

t is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $114,550.80 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.8. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $76,367.20, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.2.

 

[mwarps]

Copy from Tom's Hardware.

First of all, i should say what area of IT i specifically want to work in: Networking and Information Systems. I want to become a Network Engineer, but i know it will take years of experience, gotta climb the ladder like everyone else. Okay, so the place im thinking of attending now is Neumont University in Salt Lake City, Utah. At first i was really not thinking of seriously going there, since i live in Southern California, and moving to Utah... i dont know, i still dont actually. But the more i look into it, the better it sounds, more perfect it seems, and the more i seriously want to go! UGH, why cant there be one in SoCal!?

Not sure about accreditation, but does that really matter? Not like im going to be transferring to a State College or anything anyways. But does it matter to employers?

So the reviews here seem pretty much as glowing as the sun, take a look. Here is the BSIS catalog, i plan on getting that degree if i do attend. And here is the most recent catalog, go to page 70 of the catalog or page 70 of your Adobe PDF reader for the tuition and fees. I did the quick math and its going to be about $90k for my Bachelors, BSIS, but thats before any financial aid, i still have to do my FAFSA, and my parents are pretty low income on paper, but we are actually living quite comfortably, nevertheless, they claim their annual income to be under $20k, not sure if thats true, but if it is, I should get a hefty chunk of change from free financial aid, right? Im also going to work for a year after i graduate (HS Senior right now) to save for a car, and college obviously, and that year will give me time to do a sh*t load of scholarship opportunities. FYI, my parents will be unable to financially support me, so it'll be all on me, but i believe if i actually get my sh*t done, i can afford it, and entry level IT jobs can pay not too badly... hopefully i get one of those good paying jobs though lol. I also love how there is a hands on, team, and project focus on their programs, because i learn the best through hands on experience, especially in technology and computer stuff.

Sorry for so much text, but what do you guys think about it? Should i really go? My biggest fear(s) is that it will be a waste- as in i will learn nothing, not learn enough to be industry competent, employers will not like the school on my resume, or i will get ripped off. Do you guys think this will happen? Will this be a good school to attend to get a serious IT/Networking job and to be able to get into high position IT jobs? I know i will need to get certifications, but set that aside for now while thinking if the school will be taken seriously by employers.

Please leave any help and feedback at all. I really need some guidance and help right now, especially industry pro's. Thank you so much. Sorry for the big block of text

Problems with taking a year off:
1) You won't get into any worthwhile school because you look like a slacker. (You may not be, but this is how it's viewed)
2) You won't get a dime of financial aid.

If you're just starting to question this in February of your senior year of HS, college may not be for you........

And.. as far as the school - never heard of it. IS guys are a dime a dozen, schools probably don't matter too much, but .. Utah? Unless your last name is Smith? Look at other options.

 

[Sp33dFr33k]

I would definitely go for the most affordable program. Not many (if any) places will care where your IT degree came from. With all the job seekers out there employers have the benefit of picking someone with a degree and years of experience for a job that doesn't pay that much.

If you're really good at what you do and have a true passion for it, you'll be able to get a job and move up quickly.

 

[Romale23]

accreditation matters if you ever plan to do government work just as an fyi,

Edit: just to bring this broader: it matters for more but i dont wana go through it.

 

[DarkDubzs]

90k$ for a bachelors sounds like alot to me. Does that include living expenses or is that just tuition?
How will you pay for living expenses?

What will it cost you to get a bachelor from a local college? You might be better off doing that, and studying networking on your own or finding a local IT job to learn from.


Found a student loan calculator:

Loan Balance: $90,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $90,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 5.00%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $40.00


Monthly Loan Payment: $954.59
Number of Payments: 120


Cumulative Payments: $114,550.74
Total Interest Paid: $24,550.74

t is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $114,550.80 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.8. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $76,367.20, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.2.

I added all the costs that were listed on their site and it came out to be about $90k for all 2.5 years, and i believe it includes room and board. It is not 4 years, its 2.5 because they are an accelerated learning program, which i like, but means the work will be hard and heavy. I would rather not go to a regular state college, because why would i pay to go get a BS in Computer Science, then have to teach myself everything about Networking which will be extremely difficult? Makes no sense. There is a local trade school, SCIT, which i was initially planning on attending, they have a BS in Information Systems for about $50k and is very close by, like a 15 minute drive or less. Also, if i did have to pay $90k for school, i dont think i would get a loan for $90k, because what about financial aid and scholarships?

Problems with taking a year off:
1) You won't get into any worthwhile school because you look like a slacker. (You may not be, but this is how it's viewed)
2) You won't get a dime of financial aid.

If you're just starting to question this in February of your senior year of HS, college may not be for you........

And.. as far as the school - never heard of it. IS guys are a dime a dozen, schools probably don't matter too much, but .. Utah? Unless your last name is Smith? Look at other options.

Is it a fact that I will not get any financial aid at all if i take a year off? Or are you just assuming it might happen? If its true, then what the fuck am i going to do? Hope its not true :/ And that may be true for a more difficult school to get into, like Neumont, but for local trade schools like SCIT or something like ITT tech, they might not care... hopefully. I dont think many people at all have heard about it, its not advertised, but it sounds amazing, and i dont think employers will care either, but what matters is how well the school teaches and how much hands on learning they do, and Neumont seems to pride itself on group projects for experience, logical teaching, etc. which you can see if you visit their site.

The reason i am now questioning this is because i thought i had it all planned out- work for a year in relevant industry (IT), maybe get a cert or two, go to school. But now i am thinking about this school, and now supposedly i wont get any financial aid if i skip a year after HS to go to college which is a huge blow.

Im not even sure anymore, on Tuesday ill probably just go to my counselor, tell her my plans and ideas, see what she says and go from there to make the best of all this.

And all these problems because i was lazy all first 3 years of HS, and didnt even take my SAT yet... FUCK, i hate myself right now. By the time you realize your problems, its already too late. Now i need to hurry up and study for the SAT, take my SAT if whichever college i might go to requires it, raise my gpa like crazy, currently have a cumulative 2.5 gpa, and almost 4.0 this year. Seriously, why the fuck is my life one fucking problem after another, cant i ever just get a fucking break? I think if i can take a year off after i graduate and still get financial aid, it will be a huge relief, because that will mean i can work to save up, get work experience, study maybe for certs or programming, etc? And still have time to take my SAT and ACT a couple times for the best score i can get. Oh yeah, and i hear you need atleast like a 1010 on the SAT to get into Neumont, and 85% of applicants with that score minimum got in. God, feels like tons of bricks are on my shoulders now. I never wanted to be a loser like this, im trying really hard now and getting my shit straight and i may not seem so bad now, but this dilemma makes me seem like just another degenerate loser trying to claw their way out. Im going to succeed somehow, i need to. I guess its true that your past comes back to haunt you, and its becoming a nightmare now.

 

[Sway]

I am going to go out on a limb and give you some valuable advice. In the position you are in. I would suggest going to a community college for some valuable skills and training. Community colleges especially here in California are nearly free. It sounds like your income level for the family is fairly low and you should qualify for various financial assistance and/or loans if you feel that you should need them. If you can keep your grades high, there is more financial scholarships available to you to attend a 4 year college after you transfer. I have noticed with the community college route, if you choose a good one you can get tons of networking training. The one I went to had classes leading up to taking many high level technology exams with quick programs to do so.

Getting a BS in Computer Science or Computer Information Systems may seem like tons of work but honestly the 4 to 5 years you have to put in can be a life changing experience. I came back to school as a mid 30's adult and from my time in a community college up to student in his last year working on a double major in math and computer science has really made me appreciate the value of education. I have a job offer on the table for 100k+ yearly and have had internships with the same company the last 2 years making nearly 30k + housing allowance per summer. I am definitely not the only one in my department getting these offer's either.

So this was a wall of text, I would suggest looking at your life. Deciding if you want to carry around a mountain of debt that will plague you for the next 10 to 15 years, or take the community college -> 4 year school route where you could conceivably graduate with next to no debt if you are willing to work while you are in school and summers.

 

[Dangman]

Dude, you really really need to talk to a counselor ASAP. You're having a lot of misconceptions about the practicality of your plans.

You should not assume that financial aid and scholarships will cover the full 90K (still wouldn't go through with the program you're talking about) as your financial aid can be reduced for any reason and there's no guarantee that you'll get the right scholarships. I mean, you should still aim for those scholarships but don't assume that you'll get them. I have a friend who was denied Financial aid because his father made an extra $500 one year. Another was denied financial aid because he inherited $1000 from his dead deadbeat father.

As for your whole "claw your way out" feeling, dude, it happens to almost everybody. I know dozens of people who are in their mid 30s still trying to figure out what to do with their lives.

Anyway, as the others have said, just go to a state college. It's cheaper, you'll get the college experience, you'll enjoy yourself a lot more, and not many employers care where you went to school as long as you have the experience and/or technical know-how.

 

[DarkDubzs]

I am going to go out on a limb and give you some valuable advice. In the position you are in. I would suggest going to a community college for some valuable skills and training. Community colleges especially here in California are nearly free. It sounds like your income level for the family is fairly low and you should qualify for various financial assistance and/or loans if you feel that you should need them. If you can keep your grades high, there is more financial scholarships available to you to attend a 4 year college after you transfer. I have noticed with the community college route, if you choose a good one you can get tons of networking training. The one I went to had classes leading up to taking many high level technology exams with quick programs to do so.

Getting a BS in Computer Science or Computer Information Systems may seem like tons of work but honestly the 4 to 5 years you have to put in can be a life changing experience. I came back to school as a mid 30's adult and from my time in a community college up to student in his last year working on a double major in math and computer science has really made me appreciate the value of education. I have a job offer on the table for 100k+ yearly and have had internships with the same company the last 2 years making nearly 30k + housing allowance per summer. I am definitely not the only one in my department getting these offer's either.

So this was a wall of text, I would suggest looking at your life. Deciding if you want to carry around a mountain of debt that will plague you for the next 10 to 15 years, or take the community college -> 4 year school route where you could conceivably graduate with next to no debt if you are willing to work while you are in school and summers.

Believe me, i want to keep my debt as low as possible like anyone would too, but i also need a quality and relevant education or else, what the hell was the worth of it then, know what i mean?
The thing is, i dont want to go to a regular 4 year state college, even if i transfer in from community college, believe me, ive thought hard about it, and it just isnt relevant or makes sense to go. Reason behind that being that the only BS in technology in the California State colleges, like UC's and CSU's, is Computer Science- I dont want to get a BS in Comp Science, because im not going to be a computer engineer or a programmer, im going to work in Networking, i want to be a Network Tech, but eventually work up to something like a Network Engineer- they build the networks, they dont literally engineer hardware or software. I have no problem being something like a Systems Admin either.

Looking at the BS Comp Science degrees outlines, that colleges like CSU Fullerton offer, they arent relevant to Networking, all CS teaches is just programming and other computer operations, nothing but maybe 2 classes about Networking and routing.

Hope this makes sense. Again, in short, State colleges arent for me because they dont teach Networking/Information Systems, they arent relevant to my field of interest, i dont need a CS degree, i need an Information Systems degree or something based on Networking.

Can you guys give me feedback on Southern California Institute of Technology, ITT Tech, Devry, and Azusa Pacific? They are just about the only schools around my area that have Information Systems BS degrees.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Dude, you really really need to talk to a counselor ASAP. You're having a lot of misconceptions about the practicality of your plans.

You should not assume that financial aid and scholarships will cover the full 90K (still wouldn't go through with the program you're talking about) as your financial aid can be reduced for any reason and there's no guarantee that you'll get the right scholarships. I mean, you should still aim for those scholarships but don't assume that you'll get them. I have a friend who was denied Financial aid because his father made an extra $500 one year. Another was denied financial aid because he inherited $1000 from his dead deadbeat father.

As for your whole "claw your way out" feeling, dude, it happens to almost everybody. I know dozens of people who are in their mid 30s still trying to figure out what to do with their lives.

Anyway, as the others have said, just go to a state college. It's cheaper, you'll get the college experience, you'll enjoy yourself a lot more, and not many employers care where you went to school as long as you have the experience and/or technical know-how.

Yeah, im going to have a long discussion with my HS counselor on Tuesday when we go back. I am in no way assuming FA will cover $90k, lol, thats insane... im hoping i will get like $20k financial aid, and i will apply to a shit ton of scholarships like those small $1000 essay ones, and everything else available. I feel like no matter what, i am trapped in my lower class upbringing, and i am mostly mad at myself, like why did i not do better early on!? I dont know anymore...

About the state college thing, ive said time and time again, i dont want to go to one because the best they have that is relevant to what i want to pursue- networking- is BS in Comupter Science, and all that is for is like programming and Computer engineering which are definitely not what i want to do, and where the hell am i going to learn about advanced networking if they dont teach it? Believe me, i wish i could go to one- its cheaper and easier- but why would i if they dont teach what i want to learn? Hope you guys understand.

 

[Dangman]

Yeah, im going to have a long discussion with my HS counselor on Tuesday when we go back. I am in no way assuming FA will cover $90k, lol, thats insane... im hoping i will get like $20k financial aid, and i will apply to a shit ton of scholarships like those small $1000 essay ones, and everything else available. I feel like no matter what, i am trapped in my lower class upbringing, and i am mostly mad at myself, like why did i not do better early on!? I dont know anymore...

Just don't dwell on it or you're going to keep yourself in that "lower class upbbringing".

About the state college thing, ive said time and time again, i dont want to go to one because the best they have that is relevant to what i want to pursue- networking- is BS in Comupter Science, and all that is for is like programming and Computer engineering which are definitely not what i want to do, and where the hell am i going to learn about advanced networking if they dont teach it? Believe me, i wish i could go to one- its cheaper and easier- but why would i if they dont teach what i want to learn? Hope you guys understand.

Mainly to help you get through the HR door for cheap. I do understand where you're coming from but you're not understanding the simple fact that the job market for IT here in Southern California is EXTREMELY competitive. I'm telling you this from PERSONAL experience. Going to an expensive college is not an automatic "yay job!" button. I've seen plenty of people that graduated from the same cheap state college I went to go on to get jobs that pay $50 to $70K a year. I've seen engineering students graduate from the cheap-ass CSULA go on to get jobs that pay $70K+. Read my first post in this thread as to why those people got such good jobs.

You asked us in your OP, "what do you guys think about it? Should i really go?". My answer is a NO.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Mainly to help you get through the HR door for cheap. I do understand where you're coming from but you're not understanding the simple fact that the job market for IT here in Southern California is EXTREMELY competitive. I'm telling you this from PERSONAL experience. Going to an expensive college is not an automatic "yay job!" button. I've seen plenty of people that graduated from the same cheap state college I went to go on to get jobs that pay $50 to $70K a year. I've seen engineering students graduate from the cheap-ass CSULA go on to get jobs that pay $70K+. Read my first post in this thread as to why those people got such good jobs.

You asked us in your OP, "what do you guys think about it? Should i really go?". My answer is a NO.

Okay, makes sense, but where will i learn all the networking stuff? If im gonna do this, i need to do it right the first time. And i know i will start in a low entry level job like a Help Desk tech.

 

[dsystem]

have you looked at Western Governors University.

It is also in SLC but, online. & WAAAAAAY cheaper.
If you can live with your parents and hit the books really hard and not work you can finish ultra fast. 2 years for a 4 year degree.

If you take 12 hours or 30 hours the price is the same, $3K every 6 months. It is accredited, unlike ITT and Phoenix and other for PROFIT colleges.

You come out with loads of CERTS.

YOU MUST HAVE THE DISCIPLINE TO DO SELF STUDY

 

[Dangman]

Okay, makes sense, but where will i learn all the networking stuff? If im gonna do this, i need to do it right the first time. And i know i will start in a low entry level job like a Help Desk tech.

A combination of hands-on learning from an internship/work, certifications, and just messing around at home. Some state colleges do indeed teach you about Networking as well.

 

[green91]

Find a decent university that has a good CS or CIS program. Then approach the networking team and ask if you can work for them. If you can, its a win win because you'll get your bachelor's degree and get practical job experience at the same time.

 

[DarkDubzs]

have you looked at Western Governors University.

It is also in SLC but, online. & WAAAAAAY cheaper.
If you can live with your parents and hit the books really hard and not work you can finish ultra fast. 2 years for a 4 year degree.

If you take 12 hours or 30 hours the price is the same, $3K every 6 months. It is accredited, unlike ITT and Phoenix and other for PROFIT colleges.

You come out with loads of CERTS.

YOU MUST HAVE THE DISCIPLINE TO DO SELF STUDY

Seems not so bad. If I did go, I would have to work, atleast intern for networking so I can get valuable experience.

How does online college really even work? I mean you say I can do more than 12 hours a week and finish quicker, is that even possible? Like so I can work as much or as little as I want with online college- like you can do 1 hour a week or 168 hours a week, technically? And I've always not wanted to go to college online and usually dismiss the idea because how will I get the bass on experience you need. Campus colleges have the right equipment and everything like routers, hubs, switches, racks, etc. etc. I don't have the money or access to that equipment.

P.S. most if not every college is accredited, even ITT Tech lol, but its just that they have very poor accreditation that it doesn't even matter.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Find a decent university that has a good CS or CIS program. Then approach the networking team and ask if you can work for them. If you can, its a win win because you'll get your bachelor's degree and get practical job experience at the same time.

I think I've kinda decided that I would rather get an Information Systems degree because I really have no interest in all the programming and just overall CS stuff that is taught in a CS class, nor do I have an interest in working in programming or hard(soft)ware engineering or developing. But that's just one less question for me...

 

[dsystem]

Seems not so bad. What do you mean in SLC? Does it have a campus too, because I don't see it saying anything about a campus? And if I did go, I would have to work, atleast intern for networking so I can get valuable experience.

How does online college really even work? I mean you say I can do more than 12 hours a week and finish quicker, is that even possible? Like so I can work as much or as little as I want with online college- like you can do 1 hour a week or 168 hours a week, technically? And I've always not wanted to go to college online and usually dismiss the idea because how will I get the bass on experience you need. Campus colleges have the right equipment and everything like routers, hubs, switches, racks, etc. etc. I don't have the money or access to that equipment.

P.S. most if not every college is accredited, even ITT Tech lol, but its just that they have very poor accreditation that it doesn't even matter.

For most of their technical classes your final is the actual certification. You goto a test center take the test and if you pass you pass the class. The other classes English, Math, you turn in assignments like you would at a regular college.

As for 'live equipment', all Cisco stuff can be done in virtual lab sims. Personally I prefer virtual labs because the live equipment can be slooooow.

Where accreditation really comes into play is how the credits transfers to other schools.

Back to Traditional schools,
I would definitely consider doing a 2 year degree at community college versus the full four years at a university. When all is said and done you never have to mention you went to community college your BS is all that will maters. and you will save a lot of money.
Also Utah would have you paying out of state tuition; don't do that.

I would avoid ITT and the other schools like it. I went to ITT and lets just say I was light years ahead... of everybody.

If you are here and on this forum than you are already ahead of the curve, but school isn't going to teach you everything. Nor will your first job. Ideally your first job would be a playground where you can test what works and what does not.
Instead learn to love VMWare.

Without knowing your education background it is hard to make any sort of recommendations, but if you don't like coding, network engineer might not be the best choice either.
Cisco CLI is very much like Coding.

Job wise be passionate about what you know and get excited about the things you don't; HR can tell. They might not be able to tell if your resume is BS but thats ok because they are trying to view the human element.

 

[dsystem]

a qucik google search found this
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54779463-78/neumont-students-nickles-collegetimes.html.csp

Avoid for profit schools.

If you really want to move to SLC, look at BYU or U of Utah.

https://pia.acs.utah.edu/psc/course..._CTLG_SEARCH.GBL?&term=&subject=IS&career=CR&

 

[DarkDubzs]

For most of their technical classes your final is the actual certification. You goto a test center take the test and if you pass you pass the class. The other classes English, Math, you turn in assignments like you would at a regular college.

As for 'live equipment', all Cisco stuff can be done in virtual lab sims. Personally I prefer virtual labs because the live equipment can be slooooow.

Where accreditation really comes into play is how the credits transfers to other schools.

Back to Traditional schools,
I would definitely consider doing a 2 year degree at community college versus the full four years at a university. When all is said and done you never have to mention you went to community college your BS is all that will maters. and you will save a lot of money.
Also Utah would have you paying out of state tuition; don't do that.

I would avoid ITT and the other schools like it. I went to ITT and lets just say I was light years ahead... of everybody.

If you are here and on this forum than you are already ahead of the curve, but school isn't going to teach you everything. Nor will your first job. Ideally your first job would be a playground where you can test what works and what does not.
Instead learn to love VMWare.

Without knowing your education background it is hard to make any sort of recommendations, but if you don't like coding, network engineer might not be the best choice either.
Cisco CLI is very much like Coding.

Job wise be passionate about what you know and get excited about the things you don't; HR can tell. They might not be able to tell if your resume is BS but thats ok because they are trying to view the human element.

Im still kinda wary of going to online college because what if i have questions (and i will)? What if i need help with stuff? I do like though how you get 10 F*CKING CERTS by the time you graduate, and supposedly you can also go as fast or slow as you want, and its only $3k every 6 months

Do you mean going to community college for 2 years then transferring to college? Because as far as i know, you can only get an Associates in community college.

Im not necessarily aiming to only be a Network Engineer. And i dont care if i have to program a little, im sure i will have to eventually along the way. What if i went to the Utah campus of WGU? How much would it be, it doesnt say anything on their site, they dont even mention a campus?

 

[DarkDubzs]

Wait, wtf? You need to have gone to college beforehand to attend WGU? http://www.wgu.edu/admissions/it_requirements

Look at the experience it says you need, and also says you need to already have Certs. And they want a resume with 3 years of IT work experience.

WTF!?

 

[dsystem]

No, WGU is only online.

Yes you only get an associates at community college. However that associates can get you an entry level job while you finish a Bachelor program. When you do your resume you don't have to mention going to community only the 4 year degree. There is nothing that says you can't list both schools.

 

[DarkDubzs]

No, WGU is only online.

Yes you only get an associates at community college. However that associates can get you an entry level job while you finish a Bachelor program. When you do your resume you don't have to mention going to community only the 4 year degree. There is nothing that says you can't list both schools.

So I need to go to community college then I have to transfer to WGU?

 

[dsystem]

Wait, wtf? You need to have gone to college beforehand to attend WGU? http://www.wgu.edu/admissions/it_requirements

Look at the experience it says you need, and also says you need to already have Certs. And they want a resume with 3 years of IT work experience.

WTF!?

Oh shit, sorry I completely forgot about the requirements. I dont think you have to have all of that, or even any of it. I think they are more concerned about how successful you will be in a self study environment. No one makes you go to class, there is no sort of mid term report cards. Its all on you and your motivation.
You could still do community college then transfer to WGU.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Oh shit, sorry I completely forgot about the requirements. I dont think you have to have all of that, or even any of it. I think they are more concerned about how successful you will be in a self study environment. No one makes you go to class, there is no sort of mid term report cards. Its all on you and your motivation.
You could still do community college then transfer to WGU.

WOW, well then forget that. Might as well go to trade school instead. Hell, id even rather go to traditional college i think.Again, im pretty sure im going here: https://www.scitech.edu/programs/information-systems-bachelors-degree
Thoughts anyone?

 

[dsystem]

Looks good. make sure you check on disclosures. I think all schools have to have them, but some may try to hide them.
https://www.scitech.edu/legal/disclosures

 

[DarkDubzs]

Looks good. make sure you check on disclosures. I think all schools have to have them, but some may try to hide them.
https://www.scitech.edu/legal/disclosures

Already seen the disclosures, just that the Inf. Sys. degree is missing a lot of info, i think it might be a new(er) program

 

[Sway]

Believe me, i want to keep my debt as low as possible like anyone would too, but i also need a quality and relevant education or else, what the hell was the worth of it then, know what i mean?
The thing is, i dont want to go to a regular 4 year state college, even if i transfer in from community college, believe me, ive thought hard about it, and it just isnt relevant or makes sense to go. Reason behind that being that the only BS in technology in the California State colleges, like UC's and CSU's, is Computer Science- I dont want to get a BS in Comp Science, because im not going to be a computer engineer or a programmer, im going to work in Networking, i want to be a Network Tech, but eventually work up to something like a Network Engineer- they build the networks, they dont literally engineer hardware or software. I have no problem being something like a Systems Admin either.

Looking at the BS Comp Science degrees outlines, that colleges like CSU Fullerton offer, they arent relevant to Networking, all CS teaches is just programming and other computer operations, nothing but maybe 2 classes about Networking and routing.

Hope this makes sense. Again, in short, State colleges arent for me because they dont teach Networking/Information Systems, they arent relevant to my field of interest, i dont need a CS degree, i need an Information Systems degree or something based on Networking.

Can you guys give me feedback on Southern California Institute of Technology, ITT Tech, Devry, and Azusa Pacific? They are just about the only schools around my area that have Information Systems BS degrees.

I urge you to look at http://catalog.csuchico.edu/viewer/CSCI/CINSNONEBS.html.

Once again, I seriously suggest looking at your community college for networking. I know that here in northern california. We have Butte College. They have a tremendous amount of Networking classes and labs. I have a few friends that have taken all that they have to offer and have taken Network+ / Security+ / CCN* / and are preparing for Cissp. That is with just doing a 2 year degree for nearly free. Those same friends are in the Cis program I mentioned as well or in a CS program with myself. These same people have jobs or job offers before they even continued onto the 4 year college level.

This might be something more along your interest route. Just a bit of info. Good Luck

 

[DarkDubzs]

I urge you to look at http://catalog.csuchico.edu/viewer/CSCI/CINSNONEBS.html.

Once again, I seriously suggest looking at your community college for networking. I know that here in northern california. We have Butte College. They have a tremendous amount of Networking classes and labs. I have a few friends that have taken all that they have to offer and have taken Network+ / Security+ / CCN* / and are preparing for Cissp. That is with just doing a 2 year degree for nearly free. Those same friends are in the Cis program I mentioned as well or in a CS program with myself. These same people have jobs or job offers before they even continued onto the 4 year college level.

This might be something more along your interest route. Just a bit of info. Good Luck

Yeah, yesterday I was looking into what CSU's had an IT/Systems BS and there are surprisingly a lot which makes state college to be a real contender now for me. Now, since my grades weren't the best, nor is my cumulative gpa, can I go to community college like OCC and then after 2 years there doing my GenEd transfer to college like CSU Chico, etc.? Oh, and can I take my SAT in community college? Is it guaranteed I will be accepted to a CSU from transfering from a community college?

The only things that are seriously keeping me back from fully committing to stage college are: 1. Can I get into a CSU either by being accepted straight up or transfering in from CC 2. Will I get much hands on learning and field experience, or will it all just be theory and lectures? 3. Will we learn modern networking concepts, techniques, protocols, hard/software, etc. and most recently 4. Why are the Information Systems degrees from most CSU's classified under Business and Business Management? Does that mean I will get a business degree or that we will focus on business? Because I don't want Tor learn about business and management lol.

 

[Dogs]

2. Will I get much hands on learning and field experience, or will it all just be theory and lectures?

Ideally, if it is a good school, you won't get any hands on learning. You don't want to do your hands on learning in a classroom. That's just stupid. You want to do your hands on learning in the field, and that's what student employment, co-ops and internships are for.

The classroom is a better place to learn theory than the workplace. The workplace is a better place to learn hands on practice than the classroom. To be good you need both, and the best way to get both is to work while working towards your degree, so that you can try to get your theory from the classroom and your practice from the workplace.

3. Will we learn modern networking concepts, techniques, protocols, hard/software, etc. and most recently

Define modern.

4. Why are the Information Systems degrees from most CSU's classified under Business and Business Management? Does that mean I will get a business degree or that we will focus on business?

Information systems degrees are offered by the business/business management faculty because information systems is a business oriented topic in the same way that human resources is a business oriented topic. Nobody makes an IT system 'just because'. There's always a business need for whatever you're building in IT. If you want to study the computer as it's own entity and not as a piece of the business, go to school for computer science or computer engineering. There will most likely be business/management classes involved in your IT degree, since a good IT professional needs to understand business and management. If you pick a degree that's closely tied to a specific profession, like IT, you're going to be stuck learning things relating to that profession.

Because I don't want Tor learn about business and management lol.

Then go to school for computer science.

 

[Dangman]

1. Can I get into a CSU either by being accepted straight up or transfering in from CC

As long as you pull up your GPA while in CC AND you make sure that the classes you're taking at CC will be accepted at the CSU of your choice, you can transfer from a CC to a CSU. That's also assuming of course that there's room for you at their college in the first place. It is very competitive here in SoCal. Again, speaking from first-hand experience here. As for being accepted straight up, that's may not happen depending on how many students are already applying to that particular CSU.

2. Will I get much hands on learning and field experience, or will it all just be theory and lectures?

For field experience, you're going to have to do what EVERYONE in this thread has been telling you: Get an internship or apply to that CSU's IT department or get an actual job. If you don't do that, you're basically getting theory and lecture.

3. Will we learn modern networking concepts, techniques, protocols, hard/software, etc. and most recently

For the most part yes from my experience. But that may vary from CSU to CSU.

4. Why are the Information Systems degrees from most CSU's classified under Business and Business Management? Does that mean I will get a business degree or that we will focus on business? Because I don't want Tor learn about business and management lol.

Yes it means that you will technically have a Business degree but with a emphasis on Computer Information Systems or Information Systems. It will say so on the diploma itself. Yes you do have to learn about business since IT is basically all about helping businesses accomplish what they need to do to say in business and/or to expand. Hence why you need to learn basic business concepts so that you can understand and help what the actual business types need in their IT needs. I.e why certain business information needs to be protected, how to come up with plans to protect the IT infrastructure of a business in the most cost-effective way possible, coming up with new IT methods that could help a business increase productivity, how to secure and audit a business' IT infrastructure, etc. Not to mention that it should help you interact better with the business types if you went to school with business types. You can spot their bullshit better and earlier.

 

[AMD_RULES]

An internship or any type of IT related job will really help boost your resume for employment. Most programs that are not computer science will still require some basic java or other programming language courses to be taken. From my personal experience, I am not a fan of online classes. There's just something about the whole learning experience. A few online courses I have taken (most not computer-related courses though) had a pace that was very quick. Another issue with online courses is seeking help from a professor or instructor. You can communicate by email, but I prefer to discuss any questions or problems in person. Overall, I wouldn't recommend an online program. Certs are also good to have as mentioned.

Find a decent university that has a good CS or CIS program. Then approach the networking team and ask if you can work for them. If you can, its a win win because you'll get your bachelor's degree and get practical job experience at the same time.

This is definitely a good idea. My college has a program with Dell to get Dell-certified while working for the school. Only downside is minimum wage, but you still get the work experience.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Ideally, if it is a good school, you won't get any hands on learning. You don't want to do your hands on learning in a classroom. That's just stupid. You want to do your hands on learning in the field, and that's what student employment, co-ops and internships are for.
The classroom is a better place to learn theory than the workplace. The workplace is a better place to learn hands on practice than the classroom. To be good you need both, and the best way to get both is to work while working towards your degree, so that you can try to get your theory from the classroom and your practice from the workplace.

That makes a lot of sense, but its not perfect because what if you cant get an internship or job and the best you can get into is something like a Help Desk tech position, then youre just screwed lol.

Define modern.

Modern as in what we will realistically and effectively use in the industry and out in the field(job) today. Basically the opposite of legacy, like we dont use IDE hard drives anymore, so we shouldn't be learning or teaching about them much or at all today in colleges.

Information systems degrees are offered by the business/business management faculty because information systems is a business oriented topic in the same way that human resources is a business oriented topic. Nobody makes an IT system 'just because'. There's always a business need for whatever you're building in IT. If you want to study the computer as it's own entity and not as a piece of the business, go to school for computer science or computer engineering. There will most likely be business/management classes involved in your IT degree, since a good IT professional needs to understand business and management. If you pick a degree that's closely tied to a specific profession, like IT, you're going to be stuck learning things relating to that profession. ...Then go to school for computer science.

Makes enough sense. I have no problem taking classes or learning about business and stuff, just as long as it is not our main focus, our focus should be on Information Systems and Networking. That is my fear, that we will be focusing on too much on or the program will be too slanted on business.

 

[DarkDubzs]

As long as you pull up your GPA while in CC AND you make sure that the classes you're taking at CC will be accepted at the CSU of your choice, you can transfer from a CC to a CSU. That's also assuming of course that there's room for you at their college in the first place. It is very competitive here in SoCal. Again, speaking from first-hand experience here. As for being accepted straight up, that's may not happen depending on how many students are already applying to that particular CSU.

I am definitely going to make sure i dont fuck up college like i did High School, and im seriously going to put in all my effort. Learning from your mistakes is the best way to learn i guess and im pretty sure it will stay like that. So what if there is no room, do i just have to wait and they will automatically enroll me when there is open space or will i have to keep re-applying? Im also kinda scared i will stay stuck in CC for years, our counselors have told us that its not unusual for students to go into CC thinking theyll just stay 2 years, but they end up staying there for longer because they dont get all the classes they nedd thanks to California's over-impacted Colleges and CC's; and the scarier part is there's nothing you can do about it, no matter how high your grades are, an opening cant just be magically made in a class you need ;(

For field experience, you're going to have to do what EVERYONE in this thread has been telling you: Get an internship or apply to that CSU's IT department or get an actual job. If you don't do that, you're basically getting theory and lecture.

Fair enough, and doesnt sound so bad at all, i mean im planning on working during college anyways, only thing is theres a chance i wont be able to find a relevant internship or job.

For the most part yes from my experience. But that may vary from CSU to CSU.

Any way of knowing if the stuff theyre teaching is modern and relevant to todays industry, besides enrolling and finding out while youre already paying them and sitting in class, aka. it being too late?

Yes it means that you will technically have a Business degree but with a emphasis on Computer Information Systems or Information Systems. It will say so on the diploma itself. Yes you do have to learn about business since IT is basically all about helping businesses accomplish what they need to do to say in business and/or to expand. Hence why you need to learn basic business concepts so that you can understand and help what the actual business types need in their IT needs. I.e why certain business information needs to be protected, how to come up with plans to protect the IT infrastructure of a business in the most cost-effective way possible, coming up with new IT methods that could help a business increase productivity, how to secure and audit a business' IT infrastructure, etc. Not to mention that it should help you interact better with the business types if you went to school with business types. You can spot their bullshit better and earlier.

I have no problem taking classes or learning about business and stuff, just as long as it is not our main focus, our focus should be on Information Systems and Networking. That is my fear, that we will be focusing on too much on or the program will be too slanted on business. And just so long as it wont affect my potential for being hired for an IT/IS job after college. Like maybe employers wont take me seriously or something because of my, technically, "Business" degree.

 

[Dogs]

That makes a lot of sense, but its not perfect because what if you cant get an internship or job and the best you can get into is something like a Help Desk tech position, then youre just screwed lol.

If you struggle getting a college internship as a college student, chances are you would struggle getting a job after completing a program at a tech school. Internship recruiters are looking for people who have been able to successfully learn and apply the material from their college program. If you can't convey to them that you've done that sufficiently for them to hire you, how are you going to convey to a recruiter for a full time position that you've successfully learned and applied the material from your tech school? You probably would have been screwed in either case. Except if you have a college degree, you have something that is broadly accepted, and chances are you can get some kind of decent white collar job if nothing else. With a certificate from a tech school, you have a narrowly accepted credential, so if you can't find work after completing your program, you're far more screwed.

I also wouldn't look down on help desk work. Doing work as a help desk tech is still problem solving, and in most cases, it's still technically demanding. Good help desk techs still make good salaries, because being a good help desk tech still requires a strong skillset, especially if the users you're servicing are themselves somewhat technical. A help desk tech needs to understand the environment and relevant technologies nearly as well as the system administrator does, and when you've developed good skills in troubleshooting these problems and working with the system administrators to resolve them, you'll have little trouble moving up into a system administrator's position.

Modern as in what we will realistically and effectively use in the industry and out in the field(job) today.

In some sense, everything and nothing would be modern, then. I wouldn't call COBOL or Fortran modern, yet I still know plenty of people in the field who use these programming languages. I wouldn't magnetic tape modern, either, yet you'll still find systems using it in the professional world.

Basically the opposite of legacy, like we dont use IDE hard drives anymore, so we shouldn't be learning or teaching about them much or at all today in colleges.

In some sense, that's an ignorant way to look at it. A lot of old technologies are taught because they're more suitable for teaching than the newer, 'modern' ones. If you were an electrical engineering student, I'd probably have a lot easier of a time explaining to you the logic functions and digital circuits used in IDE hardware than I would that of SATA. Newer, modern systems can sometimes be extremely advanced compared to older, legacy systems. If you try to learn something extremely advanced without ever having learned something simple, you'll probably struggle to wrap your head around it.

In most cases, the 'legacy' technology is taught as a stepping stone to the 'modern' technology. Both technologies are taught, but the legacy introduction is needed before you can properly understand and appreciate the modern technology.

 

[Dangman]

So what if there is no room, do i just have to wait and they will automatically enroll me when there is open space or will i have to keep re-applying?

You have to keep re-applying.

Im also kinda scared i will stay stuck in CC for years, our counselors have told us that its not unusual for students to go into CC thinking theyll just stay 2 years, but they end up staying there for longer because they dont get all the classes they nedd thanks to California's over-impacted Colleges and CC's; and the scarier part is there's nothing you can do about it, no matter how high your grades are, an opening cant just be magically made in a class you need ;(.

Yeah there is a good chance of that. I know several people who had to endure that. Though do note that the same can also happen to you while in the CSU system: You can't graduate because the one class you need to graduate is only offered once a quarter/semester and it gets filled up quickly. Or you can't advance your degree due to impacted classes.

Any way of knowing if the stuff theyre teaching is modern and relevant to todays industry, besides enrolling and finding out while youre already paying them and sitting in class, aka. it being too late?e.

Talk to the professors at the CSU or CC you want to go to. A lot of CSU websites for CIS majors will list the emails of all their CIS professors.

I have no problem taking classes or learning about business and stuff, just as long as it is not our main focus, our focus should be on Information Systems and Networking. That is my fear, that we will be focusing on too much on or the program will be too slanted on business. And just so long as it wont affect my potential for being hired for an IT/IS job after college. Like maybe employers wont take me seriously or something because of my, technically, "Business" degree.

Business is part of your main focus, man. IT and Business goes hand in hand. As for your worry about your degree's validity, all you have to is explain to them exactly what that degree is. A lot of times, SoCal technical advisors already know what CIS is but they want to know if you can adequately define it.

Also, in regards to everything that Dogs is saying: I agree with most, if not all, of it.