Thoughts on this university?

[DarkDubzs]

If you struggle getting a college internship as a college student, chances are you would struggle getting a job after completing a program at a tech school. Internship recruiters are looking for people who have been able to successfully learn and apply the material from their college program. If you can't convey to them that you've done that sufficiently for them to hire you, how are you going to convey to a recruiter for a full time position that you've successfully learned and applied the material from your tech school? You probably would have been screwed in either case. Except if you have a college degree, you have something that is broadly accepted, and chances are you can get some kind of decent white collar job if nothing else. With a certificate from a tech school, you have a narrowly accepted credential, so if you can't find work after completing your program, you're far more screwed.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean SCIT and the trade schools i was looking at still issue Bachelors degrees, unless you mean certificate as that. Im not necesarilly trying to defend trade schools, but if i got a BS in Information Systems at somewhere like SCIT wouldnt it be the same as getting a BS in Information Systems at a State College like CSU Chico or CSU(insert CSU name here)

I also wouldn't look down on help desk work. Doing work as a help desk tech is still problem solving, and in most cases, it's still technically demanding. Good help desk techs still make good salaries, because being a good help desk tech still requires a strong skillset, especially if the users you're servicing are themselves somewhat technical. A help desk tech needs to understand the environment and relevant technologies nearly as well as the system administrator does, and when you've developed good skills in troubleshooting these problems and working with the system administrators to resolve them, you'll have little trouble moving up into a system administrator's position.

Im not looking down on Help Desk Techs at all, sorry if i made it sound that way. I just meant that it wouldnt really be beneficial experience since you dont really do much or anything with networks. Its still a very important position, keeps the computer users productive and keeps the business effective. I was actually planning on getting a Help Desk job as my first job, and still am if i cant land a job or intern in something like Network admin or tech.

In some sense, that's an ignorant way to look at it. A lot of old technologies are taught because they're more suitable for teaching than the newer, 'modern' ones. If you were an electrical engineering student, I'd probably have a lot easier of a time explaining to you the logic functions and digital circuits used in IDE hardware than I would that of SATA. Newer, modern systems can sometimes be extremely advanced compared to older, legacy systems. If you try to learn something extremely advanced without ever having learned something simple, you'll probably struggle to wrap your head around it.
In most cases, the 'legacy' technology is taught as a stepping stone to the 'modern' technology. Both technologies are taught, but the legacy introduction is needed before you can properly understand and appreciate the modern technology.

That just really made it click suddenly, i dont know why i didnt think about that earlier. Thanks

 

[DarkDubzs]

Business is part of your main focus, man. IT and Business goes hand in hand. As for your worry about your degree's validity, all you have to is explain to them exactly what that degree is. A lot of times, SoCal technical advisors already know what CIS is but they want to know if you can adequately define it.

Also, in regards to everything that Dogs is saying: I agree with most, if not all, of it.

Alright, well like i said, i have no problem at all learning about business and stuff, the more knowledge the better, and i also am really interested in business so thats a good thing lol. I dont care, just so long i learn everything i need to about advanced networking and stuff, hopefully we also learn about some basic programming.
What exactly do you not agree about with Dogs, just so i know exactly where to build upon?

Looks like i might seriously just go to State college now and get a BS in Inf. Sys. Finally getting to a resolution now

 

[Dangman]

Alright, well like i said, i have no problem at all learning about business and stuff, the more knowledge the better, and i also am really interested in business so thats a good thing lol. I dont care, just so long i learn everything i need to about advanced networking and stuff, hopefully we also learn about some basic programming.
What exactly do you not agree about with Dogs, just so i know exactly where to build upon?

The hands-on learning bit. Though we might have different definitions of "hands-on learning". Some CSUs do let you get some hands-on time with actual Cisco switches to learn on.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean SCIT and the trade schools i was looking at still issue Bachelors degrees, unless you mean certificate as that. Im not necesarilly trying to defend trade schools, but if i got a BS in Information Systems at somewhere like SCIT wouldnt it be the same as getting a BS in Information Systems at a State College like CSU Chico or CSU(insert CSU name here)

Because many Californians has heard more about a CSU than a trade school. So you would have to constantly tell recruiters/interviewers what exactly that trade school is and may even have to defend your choice of school. If they see a CSU, they'll more than likely not care.

 

[Dogs]

I just meant that it wouldnt really be beneficial experience since you dont really do much or anything with networks.

Again, that's not true. Someone working on a help desk still needs networking skills, because they need to be able to troubleshoot problems. People are going to have problems with their device and your network, and you're going to need to figure out why, or at least work with the network admin to figure out why. And if you have to bug the network admin about it, he's going to make sure you understand what the problem was so you don't have to bug him again. You're going to need to know how things like VPN and SSH tunneling work so that you can train users on how to work from home and help them when work from home isn't working. You're going to have problems where you need to understand subnets, dchp and DNS. If you do anything useful at a help desk, you will pick up networking skills.

And if you're a student, most places who hire students know that they're students because they want to move up in their careers. If you show genuine interest, they'll give you networking jobs when they can. When I worked at a help desk in college, I was the guy they'd send to troubleshoot network problems as a first line of support. I'd bring testing equipment and test the physical media. I'd look at what the problem was to figure out as many details as the network admin might need. Are they getting an IP? Are they getting an IP that makes sense? Sometimes just by the subnet the IP was in I could figure out that they had plugged their computer into a port assigned for printers. Because I showed interest, when they needed help installing switches or running network cable, they had me help. Most jobs have some kind of progression and will teach you skills that will get you in the door for a higher position, there or maybe elsewhere.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Again, that's not true. Someone working on a help desk still needs networking skills, because they need to be able to troubleshoot problems. People are going to have problems with their device and your network, and you're going to need to figure out why, or at least work with the network admin to figure out why. And if you have to bug the network admin about it, he's going to make sure you understand what the problem was so you don't have to bug him again. You're going to need to know how things like VPN and SSH tunneling work so that you can train users on how to work from home and help them when work from home isn't working. You're going to have problems where you need to understand subnets, dchp and DNS. If you do anything useful at a help desk, you will pick up networking skills.

And if you're a student, most places who hire students know that they're students because they want to move up in their careers. If you show genuine interest, they'll give you networking jobs when they can. When I worked at a help desk in college, I was the guy they'd send to troubleshoot network problems as a first line of support. I'd bring testing equipment and test the physical media. I'd look at what the problem was to figure out as many details as the network admin might need. Are they getting an IP? Are they getting an IP that makes sense? Sometimes just by the subnet the IP was in I could figure out that they had plugged their computer into a port assigned for printers. Because I showed interest, when they needed help installing switches or running network cable, they had me help. Most jobs have some kind of progression and will teach you skills that will get you in the door for a higher position, there or maybe elsewhere.

Guess I just had it wrong. Isnt that stuff you described also basically like a network technician? Unless I have that thought out wrong too lol. Hopefully ill be lucky enough to get an internship or job in IT during college.

 

[Dogs]

Guess I just had it wrong. Isnt that stuff you described also basically like a network technician?

It could be. But job roles aren't usually so strict. A lot of places don't have dedicated network technicians or dedicated PC repair technicians because their help desk technicians are skilled enough to encompass these roles when the need arises.

 

[Sway]

Yeah, yesterday I was looking into what CSU's had an IT/Systems BS and there are surprisingly a lot which makes state college to be a real contender now for me. Now, since my grades weren't the best, nor is my cumulative gpa, can I go to community college like OCC and then after 2 years there doing my GenEd transfer to college like CSU Chico, etc.? Oh, and can I take my SAT in community college? Is it guaranteed I will be accepted to a CSU from transfering from a community college?

The only things that are seriously keeping me back from fully committing to stage college are: 1. Can I get into a CSU either by being accepted straight up or transfering in from CC 2. Will I get much hands on learning and field experience, or will it all just be theory and lectures? 3. Will we learn modern networking concepts, techniques, protocols, hard/software, etc. and most recently 4. Why are the Information Systems degrees from most CSU's classified under Business and Business Management? Does that mean I will get a business degree or that we will focus on business? Because I don't want Tor learn about business and management lol.

It is possible to get accepted into a CSU straight up, However from what you have said your gpa is fairly low, also it is fairly late in the year to go applying. If you go the CC route, you would likely need to finish 60 transferable units before you can go to the 4 year college of your choice. This is a good way to take all the networking classes and anything else you like, as well as required general education classes. I would highly suggest you look at all of the CSU schools as there is a large disparity on the programs that they offer. As far as community colleges, if you do an associates degree at a CC, you are automatically accepted at the local CSU serving your area and most likely the rest of them except majorly impacted majors.

What you will learn at the CC will probably be more along the lines of what you are wanting to learn, however I have found with going to the 4 year route that the opportunities that have been afforded me through internships have taught me more than I ever could hope to learn from self study. I would stay away from for profit schools, the placement rate for jobs that you actually want to have is not as high as I would like to see.

Many Information systems degrees lie within the business colleges in university systems and then there are the CS and CIS programs. CIS is somewhat CS-lite, but much more technical than MIS or BIS which are both business degrees. I know that the CIS program @ Chico is a CS-lite program which also offers a minor in business which can be helpful in any job market. There are core classes that everyone has to take for business as well as computer science and then there are electives that will help you shape your degree to your focus. Please, make sure you talk to your parents and your counselor about what you expect to get from school and also contact the schools in question. If you would like to talk to me out of forum about my experience or get referals to the programs up here in northern california please send me a pm. I would be glad to help where I can.

This post has a ton of typo's, typed on my phone and I can be arsed to fix them lol.

 

[DarkDubzs]

It is possible to get accepted into a CSU straight up, However from what you have said your gpa is fairly low, also it is fairly late in the year to go applying. If you go the CC route, you would likely need to finish 60 transferable units before you can go to the 4 year college of your choice.

Would 60 credits be just 2 years worth?

This is a good way to take all the networking classes and anything else you like, as well as required general education classes.

Wouldnt i take the networking classes at the CSU?

As far as community colleges, if you do an associates degree at a CC, you are automatically accepted at the local CSU serving your area and most likely the rest of them except majorly impacted majors.

If i get an Associates degree at community college, do i need to go to a CSU for 4 years to get my IS bachelors? Or do the credits from the associates degree count towards a bachelors, so then i would only need to go to a CSU for 2 years to get my BS of IS?

What you will learn at the CC will probably be more along the lines of what you are wanting to learn, however I have found with going to the 4 year route that the opportunities that have been afforded me through internships have taught me more than I ever could hope to learn from self study.

What do you mean by the 4 year route? Can you clarify a bit on exactly what the "route" would be like for the 4 year route?




Many Information systems degrees lie within the business colleges in university systems and then there are the CS and CIS programs. CIS is somewhat CS-lite, but much more technical than MIS or BIS which are both business degrees. I know that the CIS program @ Chico is a CS-lite program which also offers a minor in business which can be helpful in any job market. There are core classes that everyone has to take for business as well as computer science and then there are electives that will help you shape your degree to your focus. Please, make sure you talk to your parents and your counselor about what you expect to get from school and also contact the schools in question. If you would like to talk to me out of forum about my experience or get referals to the programs up here in northern california please send me a pm. I would be glad to help where I can.

This post has a ton of typo's, typed on my phone and I can be arsed to fix them lol.[/QUOTE]

 

[Sway]

Would 60 credits be just 2 years worth?

Community colleges tend to teach more trade skills and prepare you for the job market. Also they serve to help prepare underprepared students for 4 year school's such as I believe yourself. Anyone can attend at community college, you do not even need to take your sat's or even have a high school diploma to attend one. If you suceed at a community college and complete 60 units you can transfer without taking the SAT's to many csu or uc schools depending on your gpa. There are transfer agreements called the TAG (transfer agreement guarantee) for the UC system and CSU's like upper division students. Make sure that you you satisfy the GOLDEN 4 which your community college should be happy to explain, it contains some basic math, english and logic as well as a science requirement. This usually takes approx 2 years though some take longer.

Wouldnt i take the networking classes at the CSU?

You can take networking both at the CSU and at the community college if they offer it, I know that mine did. In fact I liked the stuff for networking at the community college over the CSU.

If i get an Associates degree at community college, do i need to go to a CSU for 4 years to get my IS bachelors? Or do the credits from the associates degree count towards a bachelors, so then i would only need to go to a CSU for 2 years to get my BS of IS?

If you were to obtain your associates at a community college, you could very well be done with your Bachelors in 2 to 3 years depending on how many units you take a semester.
The credits that you apply towards an associates degree definitely do count, as what is required to fufill an associates works toward a bachelors degree.

What do you mean by the 4 year route? Can you clarify a bit on exactly what the "route" would be like for the 4 year route?

The 4 year route I spoke of is more going to a traditional bachelor's degree granting institution. My path was a bit longer. I spent 3 years at a community college. I took lots of math courses while I was there, I took all the prerequisite classes for computer science while I was there and I took everything they had in the business and accounting department that sounded interesting. On top of this I took nearly all of my general education requirements. I have since transfered to Csu Chico and I am nearly finished with a double major in Computer Science and Math. While I took more than 4 years to complete I am ok with that. Sometimes life steps in the way .

Many Information systems degrees lie within the business colleges in university systems and then there are the CS and CIS programs. CIS is somewhat CS-lite, but much more technical than MIS or BIS which are both business degrees. I know that the CIS program @ Chico is a CS-lite program which also offers a minor in business which can be helpful in any job market. There are core classes that everyone has to take for business as well as computer science and then there are electives that will help you shape your degree to your focus. Please, make sure you talk to your parents and your counselor about what you expect to get from school and also contact the schools in question. If you would like to talk to me out of forum about my experience or get referals to the programs up here in northern california please send me a pm. I would be glad to help where I can.

This post has a ton of typo's, typed on my phone and I can be arsed to fix them lol.

 

[Dogs]

Would 60 credits be just 2 years worth?

60 credits is 60 credits. If you want to be done in 2 years, that's 15 credits per semester, which isn't uncommon for people to manage. If you take classes over the summer between years, it'll take even fewer credits per semester to finish in 2 years.

If you're motivated, you can certainly do a 60 credits in 2 years.

Wouldnt i take the networking classes at the CSU?

Yes and no. Your CSU degree will probably have at least a couple classes on networks, and these will be classes on network design. This will be real, accredited classes that will count towards your CIS degree. If I were you, I would take the classes offered at the CSU and avoid getting caught up in the ones offered at the community college.

The community college will probably offer some 'network technician' type classes. These will be network configuration classes....how to work with managed switches and so forth. The important thing to remember here, though, is that these aren't going to be real, academic classes, so they're not going to transfer to your 4 year degree. If you take these classes, it will take you longer to get your CIS degree because you will be devoting some of your time to classes that don't transfer.

If i get an Associates degree at community college, do i need to go to a CSU for 4 years to get my IS bachelors? Or do the credits from the associates degree count towards a bachelors, so then i would only need to go to a CSU for 2 years to get my BS of IS?

If you get an associates degree in an academic field (rather than a vocational one), most of your credits should transfer, and your Bachelor's degree should take around 2 years to complete...this is especially true if the school has some sort of matriculation agreement with the university you plan to attend.

Like I was saying before, 'vocational' training isn't academic, so accredited 4-year schools can't accept those credits. If you go to community college and get your associates in business or computer science (Something that's an AS or an AA, not an AAS), most of those credits will transfer and they'll be classes you would have had to take at the 4-year university anyways...but they'll be at community college prices. If you get an AAS like 'Computer Network Technology' or something along those lines, it's less likely that your credits will transfer.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Major Update_(for those following and lurking)

Well today i got to talk to my counselor and told her whats going on. Basically she said that i need to do my fafsa with the most recent tax info (2012 b/c parents havent done 2013 taxes yet, said i can update the info later). And that its too late for me to be able to go to a 4 year, even if i was able to, i cant because the application deadline is past, so i mentioned that if i could still go to Community college (which i would rather go to anyways because its cheaper, gives me time in case i switch majors for some reason, i dont need to take the SAT, i can be accepted to any csu or uc as long as i meet the requirements, and i get a clean slate to the colleges because they will only look at my transcripts from CC, which i will make sure will be much better than my HS transcript). So she said absolutely i can still go to CC. After a lot of questions, basically, all i need to do is talk with the CC counselor(s) around the time when im ready to go and they will make sure i get all my credits and take care of all i need to meet my goals, etc. So then i asked about what would happen if i take a year off after HS and she said it was a bad idea because the % of people who go back to school is very low and... i dont remember, but it was clear it was not a good idea to her. I mentioned i would take the year off to work and stuff and she said i could easily work(or intern, as is much discussed in this thread) while i go to CC and get all my credits.

So i guess ill be going to CC this fall, right after i graduate HS and work or intern while i go to school. Then after i get all the credits or classes i need in CC, ill transfer to a CSU, or UC, not sure yet, but thats just one reason why im going to CC i guess, and im not graduating till June so that gives me time. I narrowed it down to CSU Fullerton (home school), Long Beach (need like a 3.8 gpa so idk about LB), Dominguez Hills, Pomona, Los Angeles, and San Bernardino; because those are the closest ones and i want to just stay home. If anything, UC Riverside may be the only UC im interested in right now, but i haven't really looked into UC's yet.

So things are looking good now and i feel like i finally have this under control and finally feel right about all this. This isnt necessarily the end of this thread... just an update?

Like always, feedback and comments are welcome.

P.S. She also said to make sure the classes i take in CC say they are UC and CSU transferable so that i can transfer to either a CSU or UC.

 

[Dangman]

UCs are a bit more expensive so I would stick with a CSU if you're limited in cash. As for which CSU, apply to all of the ones you listed when the time comes. There's no guarantee that you'll get into the one you want. I've seen people get denied for CSULA but get accepted for CSU Fullterton and CSU Long Beach.

 

[DarkDubzs]

UCs are a bit more expensive so I would stick with a CSU if you're limited in cash. As for which CSU, apply to all of the ones you listed when the time comes. There's no guarantee that you'll get into the one you want. I've seen people get denied for CSULA but get accepted for CSU Fullterton and CSU Long Beach.

Ill probably end up doing that, applying to all of them, but im just looking at which one or two of those i would set my sights on getting into. But honestly, if i keep my gpa up high and i make sure i meet all the credit requirements and others, i should be able to get into any, unless theyre full or something.

 

[Dangman]

Ill probably end up doing that, applying to all of them, but im just looking at which one or two of those i would set my sights on getting into. But honestly, if i keep my gpa up high and i make sure i meet all the credit requirements and others, i should be able to get into any, unless theyre full or something.

Yeah, this is Southern California we're talking about here. Yes they will be near full or more than likely over capacity. Just like the job market, it's also a bit competitive for spots in college.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Aw man, this would have been awesome :/
http://jobs-boeing.com/huntington-b...637-information-technology-summer-intern-jobs

 

[DarkDubzs]

Yeah, this is Southern California we're talking about here. Yes they will be near full or more than likely over capacity. Just like the job market, it's also a bit competitive for spots in college.

Yeah, at least its not as bad as a couple years ago, i remember i would always hear on the news stuff about college cost being like way too high or something bad about California colleges, unless its the same and back then is when it all began to get bad?

 

[Dangman]

No, it's still all bad.

 

[DarkDubzs]

No, it's still all bad.

Atleast i was half right, lol.

its the same and back then is when it all began to get bad?

Hopefully it all just works out for me, nothing i can really do except keep my grades as high as possible and hope they take me in...

just remembered i also have to try and get scholarships and other financial aid in just a few months

 

[DarkDubzs]

Hey guys, if I get a CIS degree, I can also work in Network Security, right? I assume i would be because its networking, but just want to make sure. I would love to work in network security, its just something that truly interests and fascinates me, but like most networking and advanced computer stuff, I have no idea what any of it means, like protocols and... idk, UDP's (if that even exists ), and etc., and in sure it would require more programming than building networks, but hey, ill learn it somehow, and that's all why I'm going to college!

 

[AMD_RULES]

Hey guys, if I get a CIS degree, I can also work in Network Security, right? I assume i would be because its networking, but just want to make sure. I would love to work in network security, its just something that truly interests and fascinates me, but like most networking and advanced computer stuff, I have no idea what any of it means, like protocols and... idk, UDP's (if that even exists ), and etc., and in sure it would require more programming than building networks, but hey, ill learn it somehow, and that's all why I'm going to college!

UDP exists... lol

Network Security / Cyber Security tend to be more CS related, as they involve programming.

 

[DarkDubzs]

So im looking at CSUDH and i see they have an Information Systems concentration and an Information Systems Security concentration. I linked the Upper-Division Transfer catalogs, not the full freshman catalogs, because im gonna be transferring to a 4 year from a community college.

Which would be better to go for, if i decided to go to CSUDH? I assume it would be better to go after the ISS degree since it also covers Security along with IS, and also because i would like to work in Network security, so the ISS degree would obviously cover stuff in the security side.
I see neither of them have certain classes like Java programming that ive seen elsewhere, but i guess that will just be covered in community college, i mean, they cant just leave it out if youre instead going to community college first?

 

[Sway]

You will most likely be required to take some sort of basic programming classes, I would expect c++ or java or both. It is nice to have that skillset. It teaches you problem solving and you never know when you might need to throw together a program for something automated

 

[DarkDubzs]

You will most likely be required to take some sort of basic programming classes, I would expect c++ or java or both. It is nice to have that skillset. It teaches you problem solving and you never know when you might need to throw together a program for something automated

Yeah exactly, i want to learn Java and C languages at least. If anything, like if we dont learn it in school or i dont learn enough, i can just try my best to self learn.

Also, i know there are many C languages like C+ C++ C#, etc. Are they basically the same? Differences? Which would be the best for me to know and learn?

 

[Dogs]

I'll try to answer your question about programming languages in as informal and as non-technical of a way as possible. Feel free to ask for any clarifications if something I say confuses you.

Also, i know there are many C languages like C+ C++ C#, etc. Are they basically the same? Differences? Which would be the best for me to know and learn?

C is the language from which all of the other 'C' languages are derived. It's low level and procedural, and requires you to be adept at managing resources. To use it properly, you must have at least a decent understanding of how computers actually work.

A famous example of C is the idiom for copying a string:

while (*s++ = *t++);

If you don't know how computers store and address data, you wouldn't have an easy time figuring out why that copies a string.

If you've ever looked at C code, you'll probably see a lot of pointers and a lot of data structures. If you want to store something in memory, you have to allocate the right number of bytes. If you don't clean that memory when you're done with it, you'll have memory leaks.

C is fairly commonly used in embedded systems, such as the computer you might find in your car. Most operating systems are also written in C. It's also fairly common in high performance applications, where you're trying to do things as quickly as possible and running in parallel on clusters of hardware, especially in scientific computing.

C+ isn't a thing. Certainly there could be some esoteric thing named C+ that I've never heard of, but if something called C+ does exist, it's not something you would ever need to worry about.

C++ is an object-oriented language built on top of C, though in modern use C and C++ aren't that similar. The most notable difference is that C++ supports 'classes', which are data structures which can contain their own functions which act on them. In C, you would write a data structure that merely contains data, and then write functions to act on them. In C++, you would write a class, where the functions that act on the data structure are part of the structure itself. This is done in an attempt to make the chunks of data you're working with more readily model real life in a reusable way.

C++ is in some sense higher level than C. You don't (necessarily) have to worry about how many bytes you need to allocate in order to store your class on the heap, but you do still need to worry about deleting the things you've created when you're done with them. C++ also contains a lot more comprehensive of a standard library than C.

C++ can be used for just about anything, and is for this reason usually a good language to learn if you're only going to learn a few. It also provides a good balance of requiring you to learn how the machine works while still allowing you to be productive and not worry how some of the things are being done under the hood. If you have a container full of data, the STL provides an algorithm that will allow you to do something on that data without (necessarily) caring about how it's done. If I have a vector full of integers, and I want to sort it from smallest to largest, I'd rather let the STL's developers figure out the best way to grab every element and sort it...I just want it sorted quickly without having to worry about any of that so I can move on. In C, I'd probably have to do the actual sorting myself, but in C++ I can do this:

std::sort(begin(myVectorOfInts),end(MyVectorOfInts));

...and it will magically be sorted for me. I don't have to worry about doing bubble sort or merge sort or quick sort or heap sort...I just say sort, and as long as I have reasonable expectations for performance, it will be sorted without me having to worry. This is one of the reasons you might consider C++ to be higher-level than C.

C# is a language written by Microsoft to compete with Java. It's even higher-level than C++, and it has some very different aspects about it. For starters, it's garbage collected. This means that I don't have to worry about deleting any of the stuff I make. The computer will look at the memory, and if it sees something I'm obviously not going to use again, it deletes it for me. I don't have to remember that I created something so that I can delete it when I'm done with it. Another major difference is how C# is compiled. With C and C++, the compiler takes your code and translate it into a set of step by step instructions your physical computer can understand. In C#, the compiler takes the code and translates it into step by step instructions a 'virtual computer' can understand. The 'virtual computer' is software running on your 'physical' computer, and when it receives the instructions, it will convert them into instructions your physical computer will understand as they're needed. This makes it easier to make the code work on a lot of different kinds of computers. You only need to write the code to work on the 'virtual computer', and the software running on the 'physical computer' will handle making it work on the real computer in front of you.

C# also offers a larger library than C++ does. In C#, there are built-in libraries that allow you to do things like read an XML file or connect to a database. In C++, there aren't built-in library functions for these, so you have to either write them yourself or find a 3rd party library that offers these.

C# is very commonly used in the enterprise and to write desktop applications. This is because programs can usually be written faster in higher level languages like C# than they can in C++. But this is at the cost of control. Because a lot of things, like cleaning up memory, are done for you in C#, you don't have control over how they're done. Maybe in C# they're done one way, but for the specific task you're doing there is a faster way of doing it. In C or C++, you have the ability to do it yourself, so you have the ability to do it any way you like. In C#, you have much less power to do this. This means selecting a language involves tradeoffs. Sometimes you'd rather be able to write code quickly and you don't really need the extra control, so you'll select C#. Sometimes, how quickly the program runs is far more important than how quickly you need to write it, so you'll pick C or C++.

C#, like Java, can be used to write a lot of things in a relatively short amount of time and there's a huge market for it. It's often used to write web services and web APIs (how programs talk to each other over the network), as well as to write applications which get things done in the business...Let's say for example, a program which gathers data from your phone systems, rearranges it and puts it into a database. This call data is important for the business guys...they use it to decide how well the employees answering the phones are doing, etc. It's something that takes less time to write in C# than it would in C++, and it's a program that's not going to take very long to run or be difficult to write in either case....so that makes it cheaper to use C# for something like this.


In terms of which language to learn, though, I've always found C++ to be a pretty reliable choice. You don't need to be concerned which what you're going to be using the language for when you're learning it...the most important thing is what the language will teach you. C++ will teach you a lot about how the computer works underneath, and will teach you to think about problems in an object-oriented way, so it teaches you a very well-rounded skillset. If you need to use something else like C# or Java, it wouldn't be very difficult to learn those after you've already learned C++. It's a bit like learning to ride a tricycle after you've already learned to ride a bike.

 

[schizrade]

Well good luck OP. I work as a Sys Admin/Network Engineer in Downtown LA. Get that education, and work, work, work. Work your ever loving ass to the bone and then work some more. Took me 10 years to get to this point and it is finally kicking off for me, but the work is just starting. Now people look to me for everything. I laugh at people that get into IT and burn out after a few years, which is most of them, cause "it is too stressful". It is NOT for just anybody. If you are the kind that stresses out all the time and gets hung up on everything, you will burn out quick. If you are low energy, you will not make it. If you are lazy, you will get passed up. If you stop studying, you will get passed up. This is not the field for people looking to make an easy career change or a fat paycheck with a few classes, which seems to be the prevailing attitude with people looking to get in. I have seen more than my fair share of overly credentialed people chewed up and spit out in less than 6 months time. I got passed up 2 years ago for a job at Hyundai for a candidate that was apparently flush with letters after his name. Well they called me 3 months later asking me if I wanted the job cause the other guy, "Just didn't work out so well."

Again, good luck and work harder than you ever have before.

 

[DarkDubzs]

Well good luck OP. I work as a Sys Admin/Network Engineer in Downtown LA. Get that education, and work, work, work. Work your ever loving ass to the bone and then work some more. Took me 10 years to get to this point and it is finally kicking off for me, but the work is just starting. Now people look to me for everything. I laugh at people that get into IT and burn out after a few years, which is most of them, cause "it is too stressful". It is NOT for just anybody. If you are the kind that stresses out all the time and gets hung up on everything, you will burn out quick. If you are low energy, you will not make it. If you are lazy, you will get passed up. If you stop studying, you will get passed up. This is not the field for people looking to make an easy career change or a fat paycheck with a few classes, which seems to be the prevailing attitude with people looking to get in. I have seen more than my fair share of overly credentialed people chewed up and spit out in less than 6 months time. I got passed up 2 years ago for a job at Hyundai for a candidate that was apparently flush with letters after his name. Well they called me 3 months later asking me if I wanted the job cause the other guy, "Just didn't work out so well."

Again, good luck and work harder than you ever have before.

Thanks. Right now, i dont really care anymore, ill admit im lazy, but once my actual life and source of money gets involved, im sure ill pick up a lot, i already am starting to. I probably dont care right now because i just got home from school, im hungry, tired, etc. I know its pointless to plan out life too much, i could make myself believe i will get a great networking job in 5 years and ill be making $100,000 salary, and a big mansion and a Mercedes benz, but life just kicks you in the balls sometimes- its gonna hurt a lot at first, then get worse, itll get better, then fade away, youll be over it and the pain is then gone, then maybe things get better, the same, or worse. Bottom line is, you make plans and life laughs in your face, so ill just make my plans right now be go to college, get a BS in IS or ISS, learn whatever i can in and out of school, try the best i can wherever i can, and hope for the best and work anything out.
Im still trying to iron out the rest of the smaller problems like money, where, when, etc.

 

[DarkDubzs]

I'll try to answer your question about programming languages in as informal and as non-technical of a way as possible. Feel free to ask for any clarifications if something I say confuses you.



C is the language from which all of the other 'C' languages are derived. It's low level and procedural, and requires you to be adept at managing resources. To use it properly, you must have at least a decent understanding of how computers actually work.

A famous example of C is the idiom for copying a string:

while (*s++ = *t++);

If you don't know how computers store and address data, you wouldn't have an easy time figuring out why that copies a string.

If you've ever looked at C code, you'll probably see a lot of pointers and a lot of data structures. If you want to store something in memory, you have to allocate the right number of bytes. If you don't clean that memory when you're done with it, you'll have memory leaks.

C is fairly commonly used in embedded systems, such as the computer you might find in your car. Most operating systems are also written in C. It's also fairly common in high performance applications, where you're trying to do things as quickly as possible and running in parallel on clusters of hardware, especially in scientific computing.

C+ isn't a thing. Certainly there could be some esoteric thing named C+ that I've never heard of, but if something called C+ does exist, it's not something you would ever need to worry about.

C++ is an object-oriented language built on top of C, though in modern use C and C++ aren't that similar. The most notable difference is that C++ supports 'classes', which are data structures which can contain their own functions which act on them. In C, you would write a data structure that merely contains data, and then write functions to act on them. In C++, you would write a class, where the functions that act on the data structure are part of the structure itself. This is done in an attempt to make the chunks of data you're working with more readily model real life in a reusable way.

C++ is in some sense higher level than C. You don't (necessarily) have to worry about how many bytes you need to allocate in order to store your class on the heap, but you do still need to worry about deleting the things you've created when you're done with them. C++ also contains a lot more comprehensive of a standard library than C.

C++ can be used for just about anything, and is for this reason usually a good language to learn if you're only going to learn a few. It also provides a good balance of requiring you to learn how the machine works while still allowing you to be productive and not worry how some of the things are being done under the hood. If you have a container full of data, the STL provides an algorithm that will allow you to do something on that data without (necessarily) caring about how it's done. If I have a vector full of integers, and I want to sort it from smallest to largest, I'd rather let the STL's developers figure out the best way to grab every element and sort it...I just want it sorted quickly without having to worry about any of that so I can move on. In C, I'd probably have to do the actual sorting myself, but in C++ I can do this:

std::sort(begin(myVectorOfInts),end(MyVectorOfInts));

...and it will magically be sorted for me. I don't have to worry about doing bubble sort or merge sort or quick sort or heap sort...I just say sort, and as long as I have reasonable expectations for performance, it will be sorted without me having to worry. This is one of the reasons you might consider C++ to be higher-level than C.

C# is a language written by Microsoft to compete with Java. It's even higher-level than C++, and it has some very different aspects about it. For starters, it's garbage collected. This means that I don't have to worry about deleting any of the stuff I make. The computer will look at the memory, and if it sees something I'm obviously not going to use again, it deletes it for me. I don't have to remember that I created something so that I can delete it when I'm done with it. Another major difference is how C# is compiled. With C and C++, the compiler takes your code and translate it into a set of step by step instructions your physical computer can understand. In C#, the compiler takes the code and translates it into step by step instructions a 'virtual computer' can understand. The 'virtual computer' is software running on your 'physical' computer, and when it receives the instructions, it will convert them into instructions your physical computer will understand as they're needed. This makes it easier to make the code work on a lot of different kinds of computers. You only need to write the code to work on the 'virtual computer', and the software running on the 'physical computer' will handle making it work on the real computer in front of you.

C# also offers a larger library than C++ does. In C#, there are built-in libraries that allow you to do things like read an XML file or connect to a database. In C++, there aren't built-in library functions for these, so you have to either write them yourself or find a 3rd party library that offers these.

C# is very commonly used in the enterprise and to write desktop applications. This is because programs can usually be written faster in higher level languages like C# than they can in C++. But this is at the cost of control. Because a lot of things, like cleaning up memory, are done for you in C#, you don't have control over how they're done. Maybe in C# they're done one way, but for the specific task you're doing there is a faster way of doing it. In C or C++, you have the ability to do it yourself, so you have the ability to do it any way you like. In C#, you have much less power to do this. This means selecting a language involves tradeoffs. Sometimes you'd rather be able to write code quickly and you don't really need the extra control, so you'll select C#. Sometimes, how quickly the program runs is far more important than how quickly you need to write it, so you'll pick C or C++.

C#, like Java, can be used to write a lot of things in a relatively short amount of time and there's a huge market for it. It's often used to write web services and web APIs (how programs talk to each other over the network), as well as to write applications which get things done in the business...Let's say for example, a program which gathers data from your phone systems, rearranges it and puts it into a database. This call data is important for the business guys...they use it to decide how well the employees answering the phones are doing, etc. It's something that takes less time to write in C# than it would in C++, and it's a program that's not going to take very long to run or be difficult to write in either case....so that makes it cheaper to use C# for something like this.


In terms of which language to learn, though, I've always found C++ to be a pretty reliable choice. You don't need to be concerned which what you're going to be using the language for when you're learning it...the most important thing is what the language will teach you. C++ will teach you a lot about how the computer works underneath, and will teach you to think about problems in an object-oriented way, so it teaches you a very well-rounded skillset. If you need to use something else like C# or Java, it wouldn't be very difficult to learn those after you've already learned C++. It's a bit like learning to ride a tricycle after you've already learned to ride a bike.

Wow i didnt know what 50% of what you said means, or i just dont remember lol. Especially those code strings you gave me examples of, no idea whatsoever. But then again, i have no experience with coding or programming or anything like that, or computer science stuff, advanced computing, so what can be expected? Hopefully i can learn that stuff in college in IS or i will be lucky enough to be able to learn in an internship or job... scary

 

[David-Duc]

Bookmarked, awesome thread. Really appreciated for sharing your experience here.

 

[DarkDubzs]

I know this is a dead thread and all, but I decided to check it out again. Pretty cool to see where I was a while ago to now. If anyone cares for it, I can do a quick update as of where I am now. Maybe this can become a place for people to discuss education and future endeavors? That would be cool, but probably wont happen.

Basically, its halfway through the first semester, so I am almost 1/4 done with community. Dont have a job yet since I wanted to dedicate my first semester to school and see what I can handle. Got one CIS class this semester and all we are doing is learning Excel and taking quizzes on easy computer stuff.
Thats the jist of it, to be short.

If anyone would care for an update post, just reply or something.