Thermaltake PSU's

[Sith'ari]

Hello.
I want your opinion about the following psu's:
1)THERMALTAKE EVO-650MPCGEU EVOBLUE 2.0 SERIES 650W 80+ GOLD and
2)THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER GRAND 650W
I own both of them, one installed at my brother's pc, and the other on mine.
If you can, i would like to comment about their quality. What made me impression about these 2 psu's was that they have MTBF: >120.000 hours. Most of psu's have >100.000 hours.
Thank you.

 

[tordogs]

Not sure you'll get much love for Thermaltake PSU on this forum but I have been using the TPG 850W for a couple of years now. The TPG series got pretty good reviews from JonnyGuru and it also had a 7-year warranty if I remember correctly. Had very nice specs and all the connectors that I could possibly use. Have never had a whimper out of it since using it. Had always used Antec power supplies before so this was a first for me. Can't comment on your specific models but I think the specs/ratings were pretty much the same for all the TPG series. Hope I never have to find out the good or bad on Thermaltake warranty!

I was looking for long warranties on the parts when I put this system together so the TPG fit the bill nicely. Here is an article JonnyGuru did on the TPG 750.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=201

 

[Skripka]

Friends don't let friends buy Thermaltake PSUs. They're all at best mediocre.

 

[firas]

I used a Toughpower PSU for more than 4 years (with an E6850 and Q9550 builds) then sold it to a friend who's still using it.

before I sell it I used to get some PSU warning message (Asus Power Supply Surge Detected) in the Asus bios but everything including overclocking worked fine.

 

[ccityinstaller]

I used a Toughpower PSU for more than 4 years (with an E6850 and Q9550 builds) then sold it to a friend who's still using it.

before I sell it I used to get some PSU warning message (Asus Power Supply Surge Detected) in the Asus bios but everything including overclocking worked fine.

So you sold your friend a PSU which the MB was saying was having Power Surge Issues?

OP, I don't know about those specific models, but I had the first of the TT TP line, the 700W..That thing easily weighted over 2 times as much as any other PSU, and powered a heavily o/c'd Q6600, an AMD X1055T @ 4.3Ghz, and an Intel I7 Quad/HT @ 4.2Ghz before I gave it to a friend..I replaced it with a modular Corsair TX 750, which did not feel anywhere near as solid, and had more voltage ripple on the 12V line then the ~4-5 year old TT TP 700W did..

 

[Sith'ari]

Friends don't let friends buy Thermaltake PSUs. They're all at best mediocre.

That's a very general answer!
When i bought both of the psu's, i had made quite long research first.
Although i wasn't impressed with the stats from some of Thermaltake's cheap psu's, like the smart series or the litepower series for example, i was totally impressed about their expensive psu's series, like the Grand and Evo series.
-The 7-year warranty for the Grand psu's (5-year for Evo psu's), combined with MTBF> 120.000 hours, was something i've never seen on other psu's (*as i said at my 1st post, most of the psu's have MTBF>100.000).
-Also they can perform 24/7@ 50℃ (both Grand and Evo), while similar price-top quality psu's like Enermax's Triathlor perform 24/7@ 40℃
So, my conclusion was that Grand and Evo series must have excellent components inside, to provide such numbers.
My only question is that can these numbers be marketing trick and not true?

 

[Skripka]

That's a very general answer!
When i bought both of the psu's, i had made quite long research first.
Although i wasn't impressed with the stats from some of Thermaltake's cheap psu's, like the smart series or the litepower series for example, i was totally impressed about their expensive psu's series, like the Grand and Evo series.
-The 7-year warranty for the Grand psu's (5-year for Evo psu's), combined with MTBF> 120.000 hours, was something i've never seen on other psu's (*as i said at my 1st post, most of the psu's have MTBF>100.000).
-Also they can perform 24/7@ 50℃ (both Grand and Evo), while similar price-top quality psu's like Enermax's Triathlor perform 24/7@ 40℃
So, my conclusion was that Grand and Evo series must have excellent components inside, to provide such numbers.
My only question is that can these numbers be marketing trick and not true?

The length of warranty and how long they keep turning on tells you NOTHING about the real "performance" of a PSU. What it is all about is how bad the voltage regulation is, and if the PSU cannot deliver rated load. The there's nice features like efficiency and how quiet the unit is under load. Here's a shining example of Thermaltake's QC:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-RX-750-W-Power-Supply-Review/902/1

PSUs that don't even meet ATX specification for noise or ripple are something you won't noticeably detect in normal operation most of the time apart from system crashes/BSODs or perhaps hardware wearing out. And unless you know what to look for, you won't suspect the shitty PSU as the cause. Further so long as you don't strain POS PSUs like the linked ThermalTake one above close to rated output....you will avoid seeing them explode also, note the above PSU exploded at only 50-60% of rated output. Boom.

Most of the things people look at to buy PSUs are either irrelevant or lies. All the 80+ colors above Bronze are really worthless, and even then many manufacturers lie about their assembly-line units actually able to meet the rating.Things like number of rails are no reason to buy a PSU over another. Hell, people like ThermalTake sell PSUs that are "ATX" standard, that fail abysmally at even meeting the ATX spec for ripple/noise nevermind blow up at half load.

*Sidenote, I used a TT TR2 850W PSU for a few years because I bought it locally at WorstBuy when I was in hurry and didn't know any better.

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

That's a very general answer!

And incorrect. Like units from many other companies, they range from mediocre to fantastic.

 

[firas]

So you sold your friend a PSU which the MB was saying was having Power Surge

I gave him the whole pc for way less than its worth.

 

[Sith'ari]

The length of warranty and how long they keep turning on tells you NOTHING about the real "performance" of a PSU. What it is all about is how bad the voltage regulation is, and if the PSU cannot deliver rated load. The there's nice features like efficiency and how quiet the unit is under load.

Of course i looked features like psu's efficiency (*Both Grand and Evo have 80 plus gold).
http://www.thermaltake.com/psu-allseries.aspx
But most of the top quality psu's provide more or less, 80 plus gold/platinum efficiency.
What matters to me when i buy a psu, is less if it can provide 85% or 87% or 90% efficiency, and more i care about longevity and stability. What good is to buy a psu with 99% efficiency, if after 1 year of use starts to malfunction!!
That's why, as i said to my previous posts, i care a lot about stats like the MTBF>120.000 hours, wich combined with the 24/7@ 50℃ performance, is something that guarantees me longevity and stability.
Of course, all these matter if these stats are true and not marketing trick. That is something i can't be sure, that's why i created this thread after all, to get more opinions.

 

[Jorona]

Some of the Tough Power Grands are made by Sirtec/Sirfa and are generally mediocre to poor. You can get much better PSUs for the same money.

The remaining Grands and Evos are all made by CWT, which has a typically good track record. Not that you won't get a bum unit now and then.

Heres a review from Oklahoma Wolf over at JonnyGuru (and a couple posts above) on the TPG-1200. Passable, but truly mediocre.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story5&reid=243

Also, MTBF guarantees you nothing. It'll give you an idea of how long it SHOULD last, but don't ever bet on that being the case.

 

[Tup3x]

I bought TPG 750W because it had really nice discount (really nice price for Gold unit back then) and it was built by CWT. This particular unit got quite good reviews too.

These days I wouldn't buy TT again though. There are better alternatives.

 

[Sith'ari]

I bought TPG 750W because it had really nice discount (really nice price for Gold unit back then) and it was built by CWT. This particular unit got quite good reviews too.

These days I wouldn't buy TT again though. There are better alternatives.

I haven't seen any review yet about TT new EVO series or the even newer Toughpower DPS series (http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002107 ), so how can you say for sure that are better alternatives?
Even at the older Grand series, all the reviews i've seen so far, is for Grand 1200 watt on Hardocp.com, and the Grand 750 watt (and again Grand 1200 watt) at jonnyguru.com. The Grand series is 3 years old, and there is still NO review about the 650 and the 850 watt models!!!, so how can i have an objective opinion about TT's psu's ?

P.S : of course, i have to admitt that i was very dissapointed with the Grand 1200 review. A big misinformation from TT, to hide from consumers that some of the Grand psu's were being manufactured from different company (sifra)!!! Big foul from TT!!!

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

or the even newer Toughpower DPS series (http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002107 )

Give me about three weeks or so

 

[Tsumi]

The real question is, why by an unknown, unproven unit when you can buy a proven one for the same price or sometimes even cheaper?

 

[Dangman]

That's why, as i said to my previous posts, i care a lot about stats like the MTBF>120.000 hours, wich combined with the 24/7@ 50℃ performance, is something that guarantees me longevity and stability.
Of course, all these matter if these stats are true and not marketing trick. That is something i can't be sure, that's why i created this thread after all, to get more opinions.

Well now you should know that MTBF means nothing. It's basically marketing speak. You should also know that 80PLus certifications means virtually nothing as well:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/

So unfortunately, you're using two incorrect/poor criteria to choose a PSU. Actually three once you count the warranty: The computer hardware company Ultra use to offer lifetime warranties on some of their PSUs. However, those PSUs with the lifetime warranty were generally shit. Hell, just look at the Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 1200W: It had a 7 year warranty yet performed like shit under proper PSU testing. So long warranties don't mean that the PSU is that much better.

Then's there's Tsumi's point: Why buy a PSU of unknown quality where there are known quality PSUs that can be found in almost every price bracket between $40 and $300? That's of course assuming that you're using the right criteria in the first place.

Give me about three weeks or so

Niiiice

 

[Sith'ari]

Well now you should know that MTBF means nothing. It's basically marketing speak.

Then's there's Tsumi's point: Why buy a PSU of unknown quality where there are known quality PSUs that can be found in almost every price bracket between $40 and $300? That's of course assuming that you're using the right criteria in the first place.

-First of all, i couldn't ever imagine that the stats that psu companies provide may be false or inaccurate(* i thought that they pass quallity tests in order to use certifacates like 80 plus gold/platinum) . I was totally surprised, when -by pure luck-, happened to read Hardocp's review for TT Grand 1200watt. When i read that the Grand models are being manufactured from 2 different companies, while TT advertise all the Grand series with the same stats, that was when i understood that these stats may be just marketing tricks.
These thoughts made me to create this thread to get more opinions.
-As for Tsumi's question, "why to buy something of unknown quallity", first of all, in Greece where i live Thermaltake is a very well known company, and secondly, when i see stats better than other psu's such as the MTBF>120.000 and performance 24/7@ 50℃, when -as i said before- Enermax's Triathlor guarantees stabillity 24/7 untill only at 40℃, made to believe that this psu was of outstanding quallity!!
-Unfortunatelly now i see that all these could be false advertisement but i can't be sure because as i said there are very few reviews about new TT products (*except the Toughpower XT models)

 

[FrgMstr]

TT PSUs used to be the friggin bomb, but not any more.

 

[Tsumi]

Well, it's probably about time for you to start looking at other offerings available to you. The PSU is one of the most critical components of your computer, and you don't want to get one that will potentially blow it up.

 

[Warl0rd]

I have this one and I'm happy with it.

I guess they have good and bad power supplies, you have to do your research for specific models.

 

[Dangman]

-First of all, i couldn't ever imagine that the stats that psu companies provide may be false or inaccurate(* i thought that they pass quallity tests in order to use certifacates like 80 plus gold/platinum) . I was totally surprised, when -by pure luck-, happened to read Hardocp's review for TT Grand 1200watt. When i read that the Grand models are being manufactured from 2 different companies, while TT advertise all the Grand series with the same stats, that was when i understood that these stats may be just marketing tricks.

Dude, it's not a question of "may". Those stats ARE just marketing tricks. No point in relying on those marketing tricks unless you want to continue to be fooled into buying bad products.

-Unfortunatelly now i see that all these could be false advertisement but i can't be sure because as i said there are very few reviews about new TT products (*except the Toughpower XT models)

Then don't buy TT then until you're sure. Again, now that you've been informed that there is plenty of false advertising, no point in getting TT PSUs until you can find a proper PSU review of it.

 

[Sith'ari]

Dude, it's not a question of "may". Those stats ARE just marketing tricks. No point in relying on those marketing tricks unless you want to continue to be fooled into buying bad products.
........................................
Then don't buy TT then until you're sure. Again, now that you've been informed that there is plenty of false advertising, no point in getting TT PSUs until you can find a proper PSU review of it.

Well you are probably correct when we are talking specifically about Grand 1200watt but ....
1)...as for the model i personally own(*installed at my brother's pc), the Grand 650watt, you are incorrect according bit-tech.net's psu testings :
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2011/09/21/what-is-the-best-600w-psu/1 .
As you will see on the link, they have tested the 600-750 watt psu (*year 2011), and the TT's Grand 650watt was rated with the 3rd highest score, only behind from Antec and Corsair, while outperforming Enermax, Silverstone, Be Quiet etc.
2) Also i found a review about TT's EVO blue2 750watt (*installed on my pc as i said at my 1st post i have the 650watt model but the 750 is close enough to give me some info), and the ratings are also very high just like the Grand 650 watt. http://hardwareinsights.com/wp/thermaltake-evo-blue-2-0-750w-review/ .

 

[Tsumi]

Those reviews do not do hot box testing.

 

[Sith'ari]

Those reviews do not do hot box testing.

If i can't find a review about my PSUs here on Hardocp, then i must look elsewhere to get information.
I was very impressed about Hardocp's stress-test reviews (*that's why i signed up to the site), and i would like to see my PSUs being tested here, but unfortunately i don't see any reviews.

 

[Tsumi]

[H]OCP, JonnyGuru, and HardwareSecrets do hotbox testing. They are limited by time (they're human after all), so they can't always get around to every model out there. However, those three are the main sources I use.

 

[Dangman]

If i can't find a review about my PSUs here on Hardocp, then i must look elsewhere to get information.
I was very impressed about Hardocp's stress-test reviews (*that's why i signed up to the site), and i would like to see my PSUs being tested here, but unfortunately i don't see any reviews.

As Tsumi pointed out, those aren't proper PSU reviews. I know you're trying to justify your purchase but using effectively worthless reviews to do so doesn't help you. Here's a list of PSU review sites that you should be looking at:
http://www.overclock.net/t/738097/psu-review-database

While the actual PSU lists is outdated, the PSU review sites list is still up-to-date AFAIK.

 

[Sith'ari]

I bought TPG 750W because it had really nice discount (really nice price for Gold unit back then) and it was built by CWT. This particular unit got quite good reviews too.
These days I wouldn't buy TT again though. There are better alternatives.

"" I haven't seen any review yet about TT new EVO series or the even newer Toughpower DPS series ( http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00002107 ), so how can you say for sure that are better alternatives? ""

I think now i'm being justified about the answer i had given about few weeks ago.
If you see the review about the new TT Toughpower DPS you will understand that your comment was a little premature.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=362

 

[Dangman]

"" I haven't seen any review yet about TT new EVO series or the even newer Toughpower DPS series (http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/produc...?id=C_00002107 ), so how can you say for sure that are better alternatives? ""

I think now i'm being justified about the answer i had given about few weeks ago.
If you see the review about the new TT Toughpower DPS you will understand that your comment was a little premature.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=362

Definitely a solid PSU. But what exactly were you justified in doing? That you were justified in buying one unknown quality TT PSU and a known crappy TT PSU based on bad information?

 

[Sith'ari]

Definitely a solid PSU. But what exactly were you justified in doing? That you were justified in buying one unknown quality TT PSU and a known crappy TT PSU based on bad information?

I was justified that we must not make general judgements untill we see some reviews first.
The bad judgement on TT PSUs was only based on a specific review (the Grand 1200watt), while all the other expensive-top TT's models were lacking a review.
P.S : I'm not talking about less expensive models, i was never interested to deal with them, bacause my pc's safety is top priority for me so i never look the cheap PSUs.

 

[Tsumi]

The bad judgement on Thermaltake PSU's are from years of putting out subpar PSUs. The fact still remains is that you bought an expensive unknown PSU from a known bad brand without waiting for proper reviews, and that is a stupid move no matter how you want to slice it.

 

[Dangman]

I was justified that we must not make general judgements untill we see some reviews first.
The bad judgement on TT PSUs was only based on a specific review (the Grand 1200watt), while all the other expensive-top TT's models where lacking a review..

You are right that one should not make a general judgement against an entire PSU manufacturer's product lineup until we see reviews first. However, there are some PSU brands that are just guaranteed to be shitty. In the case of Thermaltake, their TPG PSU was pretty shitty. Unfortunately, while the majority of their Toughpower brand PSUs are good PSUs (in the sense that they won't harm your PC), they just tend to be extremely overpriced for the quality and performance you're getting compared to other PSUs from Corsair, Antec, or Seasonic.. Combined that with Thermaltakes' shitty lower-end PSUs which are practically sold everywhere a certain U.S retailer has a store, you can start to see why there's a certain lack of trust there. Or at least a dislike

Even though the DPS were shown to be good PSUs, as Tsumi said, you have still bought an unknown quality PSU (the Evo series) from a PSU company whose product line, as Oklahoma Wolf has said, "range from mediocre to fantastic."

P.S : I'm not talking about less expensive models, i was never interested to deal with them, bacause my pc's safety is top priority for me so i never look the cheap PSUs.

Yes you still bought two PSUs based on poor criteria and one that's known to be bad. So you really can't say your PC's safety is your top priority when your two purchases proves you wrong.

So what will you be doing with your TPG PSU now? You've just said "my pc's safety is top priority for me."

 

[Sith'ari]

The bad judgement on Thermaltake PSU's are from years of putting out subpar PSUs. The fact still remains is that you bought an expensive unknown PSU from a known bad brand without waiting for proper reviews, and that is a stupid move no matter how you want to slice it.

OK, if i remember correctly (*and i do remember correctly, just look the links i posted before if you forgot ), i posted test-reviews about both the PSUs i own. For both of them the comments were from very good to excellent!! If you don't bring me some other reviews to prove them wrong, then i will consider them as accurate reviews.
Maybe their reviews were not as thorough as Hardocp would have made, but that doesn't make them incorrect untill i see a review with a different opinion.
The fact that Grand 1200 from Sifra was a failure, doesn't automatically make my Grand 650 from CWT also a failure
P.S: You are of course both of you correct at the point that i bought them based only on TT's advertisement, but in the end i believe i was lucky enough that even based on false criteria, i still bought 2 good psu units.

 

[Tsumi]

OK, if i remember correctly (*and i do remember correctly, just look the links i posted before if you forgot ), i posted test-reviews about both the PSUs i own. For both of them the comments were from very good to excellent!! If you don't bring me some other reviews to prove them wrong, then i will consider them as accurate reviews.
Maybe their reviews were not as thorough as Hardocp would have made, but that doesn't make them incorrect untill i see a review with a different opinion.
The fact that Grand 1200 from Sifra was a failure, doesn't automatically make my Grand 650 from CWT also a failure
P.S: You are of course both of you correct at the point that i bought them based only on TT's advertisement, but in the end i believe i was lucky enough that even based on false criteria, i still bought 2 good psu units.

That is not the point. You keep sidestepping the point to justify yourself when you are still wrong no matter what.

An improper good review does not make a product good until it was proven bad by a proper bad review. This is not a case of innocent (good) until proven guilty (bad). Buying things is better done as guilty until proven innocent, so to speak.

 

[Skripka]

That is not the point. You keep sidestepping the point to justify yourself when you are still wrong no matter what.

An improper good review does not make a product good until it was proven bad by a proper bad review. This is not a case of innocent (good) until proven guilty (bad). Buying things is better done as guilty until proven innocent, so to speak.

Especially given that companies are willing to replace PSU internals with concrete blocks just to save some money.

 

[Sith'ari]

Even though the DPS were shown to be good PSUs, as Tsumi said, you have still bought an unknown quality PSU (the Evo series) from a PSU company whose product line, as Oklahoma Wolf has said, "range from mediocre to fantastic."
Yes you still bought two PSUs based on poor criteria and one that's known to be bad. So you really can't say your PC's safety is your top priority when your two purchases proves you wrong.
So what will you be doing with your TPG PSU now? You've just said "my pc's safety is top priority for me."

UPDATE: From the discussion on this thread and after a lot of thinking, I was convinced to switch my TPG-650 with the Seasonic Platinum 660 (SS-660XP). I was extremely happy that i bought what it is supposed to be "the top of the top" at PSUs area (*from what i have read on this forum), untill i saw the following comment at the thread with title: "Is an old HX620W up to Haswell?".
The comment was the following:

I have gone through so many power supplies over the years, one after another, quality units too. This HX series outlasted all the others, maybe because I didn't use it, but it's the only one left of the many I have gotten.

As a side note, most of the ones that failed were Seasonic. This one is supposedly made by Seasonic, but it's lasted.

Reading this, i don't feel so sure anymore for my PSU's change!! I hope that time proves me wrong!!

 

[TaintedSquirrel]

Seasonic is probably the single best PSU manufacturer right now, the 660XP2 being one of their top units. At $80, that's highway robbery.
If you were looking for something more reliable I don't know what you're expecting to find.

 

[Dangman]

UPDATE: From the discussion on this thread and after a lot of thinking, I was convinced to switch my TPG-650 with the Seasonic Platinum 660 (SS-660XP). I was extremely happy that i bought what it is supposed to be "the top of the top" at PSUs area (*from what i have read on this forum), untill i saw the following comment at the thread with title: "Is an old HX620W up to Haswell?".
The comment was the following:
Reading this, i don't feel so sure anymore for my PSU's change!! I hope that time proves me wrong!!

Yes the experience of one user (especially from the same user who asked "Is an old HX620W up to Haswell?") somehow trumps the experience and expertise of several other forum posters and experts.

 

[Sith'ari]

Yes the experience of one user (especially from the same user who asked "Is an old HX620W up to Haswell?") somehow trumps the experience and expertise of several other forum posters and experts.

And why exactly NOT to take his opinion under consideration?!!
Don't you think the feedback that comes from PC users is important? PC users test the hardware parts much more than an 8 hour "Torture Test". Hardocp's tests are very important for giving you a first indication, but in the real life the hardware is being tested over long term use.

 

[Dangman]

And why exactly NOT to take his opinion under consideration?!!
Don't you think the feedback that comes from PC users is important? PC users test the hardware parts much more than an 8 hour "Torture Test". Hardocp's tests are very important for giving you a first indication, but in the real life the hardware is being tested over long term use.

I do think feedback that comes from PC users are important. However, I take them with a grain of salt as not everyone who provides feedback knows what they're talking about. You can see examples of that here in this very thread and the numerous other threads the creator of that "Is an old HX620W up to Haswell. For all we know, he misdiagnosed the PSU deaths or who their manufacturers were.

Finally, there's also my own personal experience with Seasonic PSUs: In the decade I've been building computers, I've never had a Seasonic die on me.

 

[Sith'ari]

Finally, there's also my own personal experience with Seasonic PSUs: In the decade I've been building computers, I've never had a Seasonic die on me.

Glad to hear it!! I hope you are right!!
But i have to say that their manual is the worst manual i've ever seen!! Doesn't have any info about cable-connectivity, and i'm really comfused with the 24-pin that connects to motherboard. On the side that connects with the PSU, this cable has 2 sockets (*never seen that before!!), the first socket is a 10-pin, and the 2nd 18-pin (*i think). Which one must i connect with the PSU ? the 10-pin, the 18-pin, or both at the same time?
I have sent e-mail to Seasonic complaining about their manual!! Their internet site is even worst! I couldn't find a pdf manual to download