Jaguar Jim1
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2006
- Messages
- 224
And For Only $10,000 you can get their TRUE 120 Gold Edition, Even better Cooling and at only 865 per Pound, a real investment in your Future
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Thermalright Ultra Extreme Copper
- Thread starter FrgMstr
- Start date
And For Only $10,000 you can get their TRUE 120 Gold Edition, Even better Cooling and at only 865 per Pound, a real investment in your Future
Actually Silver is better than Gold so they'll never go with gold from a pure thermal viewpoint
Silver = 429 W/(m·K)
Copper 401 W/(m·K)
Gold 318 W/(m·K)
Aluminum 237 W/(m·K)
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
It will be interesting to find out if Air Cooling with Copper becomes worse than Gold after a year or 2 of corrosion though.
For electrical contacts, fresh copper is much better than anything (bar silver) but once corroded, it can actually block electrical contact completely!
This is why we now have gold plated contacts with not such a good connection but they do not corrode.
Without electric current flowing through a heatsink, copper corrosion shouldnt be as quick but it still definitely occurs and will have a detrimental effect.
How much though...
JediFonger
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Messages
- 2,777
i just installed the trueblack. i'm still happy with it, a few degrees diff in load isn't worth twice the cost per sink 
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Using that heatsink with the motherboard vertical is asking for trouble unless you can properly brace it so there is much less angular torque on the motherboard.
I would only use it with the motherboard flat and with a brace underneath to prevent the motherboard from bowing.
Silverstone make some awesome desktop cases
Servant of Shodan
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 1,777
Kyle, 4 pounds of delicious copper.... this is certainly Digg worthy. How about editing the last page with the little Digg button?
I've always wondered how copper coolers hold up over time.
The surface oxidises and loses its shine and undoubtedly loses some of its ability to transfer heat to the air.
I imagine the base remains pretty clean due to the thermal paste so no issues there.
Can a previously tested copper cooler be retested to see the sort of ballpark temp diffs we can expect after say 1, 2 or 3 years?
This would give us some idea of how good an investment the best cooler really is.
Cheers if you can
I still use an XP-90C which is about 4 years old now and is about to be on it's 4th socket change. I use it with 90mm Vantec Stealth Fan. It has oxidation where it has been handled (fingerprints) but nothing I would expect to hinder performance. I haven't seen any tarnishing in the radiator fins and it looks almost new. I suppose if I were concerned I could clean it.
Interesting point but as you say how do you measure or quantify the deterioration. I have to imagine its pretty minimal. I have a AXP which I have been running for 3+ years cooled under and all copper SLK-800. There has been very minimal degradation over a 3+ years period.
Cakemeister
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 99
I did a little back of the envelope calculation and the theoretical TRUE Silver would only add another pound or so to the weight. Materials cost would be pretty high, maybe $800 per unit.
Dunno if tarnishing would hamper the radiating of heat from the fins, but if stainless silver were used (alloy of silver with a little copper mixed in) maybe tarnishing would be diminished.
Dunno if tarnishing would hamper the radiating of heat from the fins, but if stainless silver were used (alloy of silver with a little copper mixed in) maybe tarnishing would be diminished.
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 55,634
I think we have been over the Cu tarnish issue before and I don't think it makes shit worth a difference IIRC.
It's actually a type T thermocouple. I can tell it's from Omega by the brown twist-tie
This stuff is actually quite affordable. If you want just bare TC wire, you can get like 300 feet for 30 bucks or so. I'd say the TC Kyle has with the plugs was probably around 50 bucks max.
Like another poster above mentioned, I also had an Amanda Titan and that huge thing had cables to mount to the case to help with weight, and it was about half as heavy as this thing
If I had a tower I would never mount this thing without cables to help take some of the load off. The vision of this 4 pound monstrosity falling onto the video card and proceeding to take out your entire system is not pretty, hence the warning from the manufacturer. I am surprised that they would go through all this trouble to make such a heavy and expensive cooler and NOT include some kind of cable system to mount to the case.
If I had a tower I would never mount this thing without cables to help take some of the load off. The vision of this 4 pound monstrosity falling onto the video card and proceeding to take out your entire system is not pretty, hence the warning from the manufacturer. I am surprised that they would go through all this trouble to make such a heavy and expensive cooler and NOT include some kind of cable system to mount to the case.
Servant of Shodan
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 1,777
There. I just Digg'ed it for you.
I need to get my Digg fix, dammit!
http://digg.com/hardware/Four_lbs_of_Cu_Thermalright_Ultra_Extreme_Copper_Cooler
I need to get my Digg fix, dammit!
http://digg.com/hardware/Four_lbs_of_Cu_Thermalright_Ultra_Extreme_Copper_Cooler
I've always wondered how copper coolers hold up over time.
The surface oxidises and loses its shine and undoubtedly loses some of its ability to transfer heat to the air.
I imagine the base remains pretty clean due to the thermal paste so no issues there.
Can a previously tested copper cooler be retested to see the sort of ballpark temp diffs we can expect after say 1, 2 or 3 years?
This would give us some idea of how good an investment the best cooler really is.
Cheers if you can
i've had an all-copper heatpipe cooler running on my Athlon XP system for somewhere around 4 years now, and it's not bad, just very slightly discolored....as long as you keep your grubby, greasy fingers off it, it should be fine
that statement doesn't make any sense, they make aluminum heatsinks all the time, which has less thermal conductivity than any of the other three.....from a purely thermal viewpoint, anyway (as in, price notwithstanding)
that statement doesn't make any sense, they make aluminum heatsinks all the time, which has less thermal conductivity than any of the other three.....from a purely thermal viewpoint, anyway (as in, price notwithstanding)
Aluminum is lighter and cheaper than all the listed elements, so it wins despite having lower thermal conductivity.
Silver is lighter, cheaper, and a better thermal option than gold, so the argument makes complete sense. However, gold would tarnish more slowly...
that statement doesn't make any sense, they make aluminum heatsinks all the time, which has less thermal conductivity than any of the other three.....from a purely thermal viewpoint, anyway (as in, price notwithstanding)
Aluminium is 1/2 the cost per weight and less than 1/3 the weight. (total cost around 1/7th of copper). It all comes down to price.
(And don't even ask about silver)
that statement doesn't make any sense, they make aluminum heatsinks all the time, which has less thermal conductivity than any of the other three.....from a purely thermal viewpoint, anyway (as in, price notwithstanding)
I know you were being funny but out of gold, silver and copper you pick gold last that was my point. They will never use silver and gold would be even after that
Living Weapon
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 448
Wow - nothing exceeds like excess
...in this case it exceeds by a degree or so, but to re-use the car analogy, a Ferrari may only barely out-perform a tricked out Subaru WRX STi, but you'll have to pay a lot for the performance, aesthetics, etc.
Far from trivializing the weight issue, I'd suggest in any orientation I'd want PEM studs or rivnuts in the MB tray at all 4 corners of this beast. That's how Shuttle supports their heat sinks, and that's how I mount my Xigmatek in my LAN rig.
When the heat pipes become saturated, which is a function of their internal surface area, the heat will flow through the walls of the pipes and then out the Cu fins - at that point, the Cu fins may work a bit better than aluminum fins. Keep in mind the original TRUE, like most heat sinks in this category, has Cu walled heat pipes that are plated over, but it would make an interesting test case
I think if you are looking for the best are cooler to stand atop a TEC, the optimal choice for the material to move heat from the hot side of the TEC to the fins would be solid Cu, rather than tubes filled with low pressure working fluid. I may be wrong, but intuitively I'm feeling that a solid heat conductor would work better than a pipe of mostly vacuum - though there is something to be said for circulating a working fluid, either in the whicking material inside a heat pipe, or actively in a water loop.
...in this case it exceeds by a degree or so, but to re-use the car analogy, a Ferrari may only barely out-perform a tricked out Subaru WRX STi, but you'll have to pay a lot for the performance, aesthetics, etc.
Far from trivializing the weight issue, I'd suggest in any orientation I'd want PEM studs or rivnuts in the MB tray at all 4 corners of this beast. That's how Shuttle supports their heat sinks, and that's how I mount my Xigmatek in my LAN rig.
When the heat pipes become saturated, which is a function of their internal surface area, the heat will flow through the walls of the pipes and then out the Cu fins - at that point, the Cu fins may work a bit better than aluminum fins. Keep in mind the original TRUE, like most heat sinks in this category, has Cu walled heat pipes that are plated over, but it would make an interesting test case
I think if you are looking for the best are cooler to stand atop a TEC, the optimal choice for the material to move heat from the hot side of the TEC to the fins would be solid Cu, rather than tubes filled with low pressure working fluid. I may be wrong, but intuitively I'm feeling that a solid heat conductor would work better than a pipe of mostly vacuum - though there is something to be said for circulating a working fluid, either in the whicking material inside a heat pipe, or actively in a water loop.
Wow - nothing exceeds like excess
...in this case it exceeds by a degree or so, but to re-use the car analogy, a Ferrari may only barely out-perform a tricked out Subaru WRX STi, but you'll have to pay a lot for the performance, aesthetics, etc.
Far from trivializing the weight issue, I'd suggest in any orientation I'd want PEM studs or rivnuts in the MB tray at all 4 corners of this beast. That's how Shuttle supports their heat sinks, and that's how I mount my Xigmatek in my LAN rig.
When the heat pipes become saturated, which is a function of their internal surface area, the heat will flow through the walls of the pipes and then out the Cu fins - at that point, the Cu fins may work a bit better than aluminum fins. Keep in mind the original TRUE, like most heat sinks in this category, has Cu walled heat pipes that are plated over, but it would make an interesting test case
I think if you are looking for the best are cooler to stand atop a TEC, the optimal choice for the material to move heat from the hot side of the TEC to the fins would be solid Cu, rather than tubes filled with low pressure working fluid. I may be wrong, but intuitively I'm feeling that a solid heat conductor would work better than a pipe of mostly vacuum - though there is something to be said for circulating a working fluid, either in the whicking material inside a heat pipe, or actively in a water loop.
Funny, I drive an STi, yet I bought the Cu TRUE. Sorry, just found that post hitting home, quite literally.
I own a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme that I paid $65 for. It's a great air cooler there's no question. However, this is a cash grab plain and simple.
I disagree and think Thermalright are resting on their laurels. To me this is exactly the same thing Nvidia did after the 8800GTX. Same design, a little change here, some marketing there, raise the price and there you have it.
Some will argue that it's solid copper so the price will naturally be higher. Last I remember at the highest point #1 copper was roughly 60-80 cents per pound and that's not counting the discount you'd get from buying it in bulk. So at most add on $5 over their other aluminum coolers. Thermalright have gone too far in my opinion especially considering the small difference in temperature the all copper construction makes. They released a special edition all black Ultra 120 that cost around the same if I remember correctly. I mean $125 for an air cooler? What are they thinking?
I disagree and think Thermalright are resting on their laurels. To me this is exactly the same thing Nvidia did after the 8800GTX. Same design, a little change here, some marketing there, raise the price and there you have it.
Some will argue that it's solid copper so the price will naturally be higher. Last I remember at the highest point #1 copper was roughly 60-80 cents per pound and that's not counting the discount you'd get from buying it in bulk. So at most add on $5 over their other aluminum coolers. Thermalright have gone too far in my opinion especially considering the small difference in temperature the all copper construction makes. They released a special edition all black Ultra 120 that cost around the same if I remember correctly. I mean $125 for an air cooler? What are they thinking?
Outamyhead
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2008
- Messages
- 4,263
Wasn't the statue of Liberty a mix of brass with copper, both of which are prone to oxidization?
And oxidization ain't gonna do squat, unless you plan on using the heatsink for the next.................20+ years to see the effects......and leaving it exposed to the elements?
Yeah nVidia did sit on their laurels, but when the 9800 failed to sell, they soon got off their arses and brought out something worth buying.
Would be interesting to find out in the next few months from who bought this.....wonderful work of art (nice to look at but god awful waste of money, without a fan as well), to see who's motherboard dies first?
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
Look back a few posts.
Kyle gave his findings in post #61 at the top of this page (or the last page if this doesnt make it onto the same page
)Looks like a lovely piece of kit. Im currently using a lapped TRUE black on my also lapped Q6600. Load temps of 55-55-49-49 @3.6ghz with 2x sharkoon silent eagle 2000 fans in push pull. If i could get the TRUE copper in the uk id certainly snap one up. Anything to drop my temps further Weight would be a big consideration but im sure i could fabricate a pair of brackets to hold it in place, Btw nice review kyle thanks for posting it.
Weight would be a big consideration but im sure i could fabricate a pair of brackets to hold it in place, Btw nice review kyle thanks for posting it.randomdean100
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
- Messages
- 731
Looks nice, doubt it outperforms the regular true by much if at all. Looks nice though, that's the selling point I guess.
I'll tell you what they're thinking. It's a limited run of 2000 stock. Those that want it, WILL buy it, no matter the price point. These WILL run out, and may even become a "collectors" item. It's not like they are mass producing these things like the other ULTRAs and expecting a huge demand.