The Witcher 3 Graphical Downgrade?

I guess this incident make the future of this generation of consoles quite apparent.

Apart from exclusives ALL multi-platform games will be gimped down to the lowest common denominator.

No need to debate any further. That is just the way it is. Who wants to KICKSTART DREAMCAST 2?!!?!?!
 
Hornet said:
If those are true, the reasons given were pure bullshit. How hard could it be to do stuff like increasing render distance on PC?

Sounds more like they are afraid of making the console version look like shit when compared to what it is truly capable of on PC.
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It wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of parity clause with Microsoft to publish on the XBONE, much like the indie parity clause that was relaxed to where multiplatform releases must have a unique feature in the Xbox version to set it apart from other platforms to be put on the store.
 
Armenius said:
It wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of parity clause with Microsoft to publish on the XBONE, much like the indie parity clause that was relaxed to where multiplatform releases must have a unique feature in the Xbox version to set it apart from other platforms to be put on the store.
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instead of parity why doesn't MS just have a 3 month exclusivity window??...I would be fine with that versus any downgrades in quality...that way everybody wins
 
polonyc2 said:
instead of parity why doesn't MS just have a 3 month exclusivity window??...I would be fine with that versus any downgrades in quality...that way everybody wins
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I think MS is pretty wary of people wanting to just ditch Xbox altogether and go straight to PC. As for exclusivity windows, probably the best real world example is Alan Wake, and that was more like 2 years, not 3 months.
 
tetris42 said:
I think MS is pretty wary of people wanting to just ditch Xbox altogether and go straight to PC. As for exclusivity windows, probably the best real world example is Alan Wake, and that was more like 2 years, not 3 months.
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even recent games like Evolve had 1 month Xbox exclusivity in regards to new maps etc...I didn't like it but I'm fine as long as it doesn't result in any performance or quality downgrades...MS really needs to rethink their strategy in regards to paying for parity...they should be paying for quality
 
Well I guess I'm glad I held back. Looks like I'm spending my money on a game that has been optimized for PC.

"Hello, Grand Theft Auto... It's been A LONG TIIIIIIIMMMEEE."

never_been_this_far1974hee_haw15_zpsxgx2nj3q.jpg
 
Realistically, the Witcher games have a legacy of being "enhanced" after initial release even if the previous games weren't platform dependent.

My prediction is Witcher 3: Enhanced Edition will release within 6 months of initial release.
 
Just going to wait this one out. They or mods will get it improved eventually. Fuck consoles and their dirty, couch living on mountain dew and processed foods boo boos. Pc H or go f yourself.
 
Glad I only paid $20. Might just wait until they release the enhanced edition and play it then. I really can't stand when they gimp PC games because of consoles. I became an exclusive pc gamer in 2012 to get away from stuff like gimped graphics, 30 fps limit, etc, so this is just a huge kick in the face everytime this happens
 
What a waste. It's too bad. Huge disappointment

At least the recent patch improved the framerates. Was getting distracting and weird stuttering right from the start of the game. I thought I was having too much fun playing other games to get into Witcher 3 right away; turns out this patch literally puts it in a whole new light
 
Same opinion here as some of the rest of you. After being console-gimped, not interested until the Enhanced Edition is out.
 
 
Blade-Runner said:
Like the Watch_Dawgs debacle, the Witcher 3's graphics wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal if CDProjekt hadn't repeatedly lied its arse off denying the downgrade all the way up to release....

http://www.pcgamer.com/cd-projekt-promises-no-visual-downgrade-for-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt/
http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/news/new-witcher-3-trailer-not-downgraded-just-badly-compressed,398592
http://www.twinfinite.net/2015/05/14/cd-projekt-red-dev-comments-on-the-witcher-3-downgrade-rumors/
http://wccftech.com/witcher-3-dev-talks-downgradeation-unfair-compare-trailers-gameplay-demos/
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Exactly. Do not brand yourself as the developer that builds for PC then ports to console, and then build a console game and port it to PC with mediocre enhancements. Do not use a high-quality PC engine for marketing, transfer to a new engine because it would be "too expensive" to port the first one to consoles, and then lie about doing it. When people catch you in your initial lie, do not lie more and attempt to censor/silence those calling you out on it.

If plans change and you switch primary platforms from PC to console, be honest that you are no longer a PC-first developer. Be honest that you "had to" switch engines so that console development would be less expensive. You're going to have the support of PC enthusiasts anymore, but at least you won't have the active opposition of a larger group of people you disrespected and offended by repeatedly lying to them and attempting to censor/silence them.
 
The Witcher series was never about graphics... TW1 came out around when the first Crysis was released and looked a generation behind.

TW2 looked pretty good but the graphics were nothing ground breaking.

Point is I never expected TW3 to look like it did in those trailers. I do not think the game would be much different if they only had targeted PC, as the budget wouldn't have allowed for it anyway.
 
x3sphere said:
The Witcher series was never about graphics... TW1 came out around when the first Crysis was released and looked a generation behind.

TW2 looked pretty good but the graphics were nothing ground breaking.

Point is I never expected TW3 to look like it did in those trailers. I do not think the game would be much different if they only had targeted PC, as the budget wouldn't have allowed for it anyway.
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Its not about the game looking one way or another, its about a choice of having it the way you want. The PC can have WAY better graphics than a console. So if a person with 3 Titans wants to max it out, he should be able to.
 
Hagrid said:
Its not about the game looking one way or another, its about a choice of having it the way you want. The PC can have WAY better graphics than a console. So if a person with 3 Titans wants to max it out, he should be able to.
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Have you seen the ini tweaks going around? It's possible within the engine to "max things out" arbitrarily. If they set the current ultra settings at medium and provided two further presets to appease the egos of PC gamers, then you'd have people complaining about the game being "poorly optimized" and what not. Meanwhile no one gives a damn about the character models, and facial animations - which are the best I've seen in a game so far where these aren't motion-captured and make some in which they were look like potato games in comparison. You can't win, you really can't win in this industry sometimes.
 
dmonkey said:
Have you seen the ini tweaks going around? It's possible within the engine to "max things out" arbitrarily. If they set the current ultra settings at medium and provided two further presets to appease the egos of PC gamers, then you'd have people complaining about the game being "poorly optimized" and what not. Meanwhile no one gives a damn about the character models, and facial animations - which are the best I've seen in a game so far where these aren't motion-captured and make some in which they were look like potato games in comparison. You can't win, you really can't win in this industry sometimes.
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Regardless of which way they choose to "lose" (if they supposedly cannot win according to you), how about just being honest about their decision?

Besides, I do not remember anyone complaining about The Witcher 2's supersampling that rendered the same scene four times over or something like that. Even if you had 5,000 to build the most powerful gaming machine possible at the time, nothing could run it at a reasonable frame rate on those settings. That's opposed to now, where four Titan Xs probably WOULD be able to run the TW3's original graphics/effects that they scrapped (and for the record I think Titans are a complete waste of money).

All of the reviews of TW2 still universally praised supersampling as looking "amazing," and universally agreed it was a an advanced next-generation feature (as in literally, it was beyond the technology of current generation hardware) that was there to push the game graphically to the max as it aged, not an option for anyone to even consider using at the time, regardless of their hardware.

But as has been said repeatedly, the level of graphical fidelity is not the point. The devs themselves have admitted that had they been willing (they claim they did not have the money...but give me a break...they released TW1/TW2/Witcher adventures, and are owned by GOG making money off of selling other games) to spend more money to build a PC version first and port to consoles like they used to champion themselves doing, they could have had a better overall PC version in terms of both graphics and other ways.

Instead, their excuse is it was "too expensive" to build the game for PC first and port it to console instead of the other way around. There have been more than one sign of "console port," one of the major ones being a limited use of VRAM at Ultra settings unless running at 4k.

No one cares about graphical fidelity as long as the gameplay is excellent. However, people care about a PC version that is at the very least adequately high quality as to be indistinguishable from a console port if they cannot simply build a PC version to port to consoles, and people care about honesty. Those two things were not present in the release of The Witcher 3.
 
GearChoices said:
Regardless of which way they choose to "lose" (if they supposedly cannot win according to you), how about just being honest about their decision?

Besides, I do not remember anyone complaining about The Witcher 2's supersampling that rendered the same scene four times over or something like that. Even if you had 5,000 to build the most powerful gaming machine possible at the time, nothing could run it at a reasonable frame rate on those settings. That's opposed to now, where four Titan Xs probably WOULD be able to run the TW3's original graphics/effects that they scrapped (and for the record I think Titans are a complete waste of money).

All of the reviews of TW2 still universally praised supersampling as looking "amazing," and universally agreed it was a an advanced next-generation feature (as in literally, it was beyond the technology of current generation hardware) that was there to push the game graphically to the max as it aged, not an option for anyone to even consider using at the time, regardless of their hardware.

But as has been said repeatedly, the level of graphical fidelity is not the point. The devs themselves have admitted that had they been willing (they claim they did not have the money...but give me a break...they released TW1/TW2/Witcher adventures, and are owned by GOG making money off of selling other games) to spend more money to build a PC version first and port to consoles like they used to champion themselves doing, they could have had a better overall PC version in terms of both graphics and other ways.

Instead, their excuse is it was "too expensive" to build the game for PC first and port it to console instead of the other way around. There have been more than one sign of "console port," one of the major ones being a limited use of VRAM at Ultra settings unless running at 4k.

No one cares about graphical fidelity as long as the gameplay is excellent. However, people care about a PC version that is at the very least adequately high quality as to be indistinguishable from a console port if they cannot simply build a PC version to port to consoles, and people care about honesty. Those two things were not present in the release of The Witcher 3.
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If anyone complained about Ubersampling they'd be out of their mind. If I recall correctly it wasn't enabled as a preset, but that may not be true. Either way it's irrelevant because you can always supersample in driver (and now with DSR/VSR) anyway, and it's not really a feature of the game in that sense.

The problem with being honest is that it doesn't pay. People say they just want honesty, but that's not how it is. For a game they already sunk who knows how much money in, it would be suicide (or at least a massive waste of the marketing expenditure that comprises half of the budgets for this kind of media, be it a movie, or a game) for them to downplay it right before release. Whatever happened, the game is great, and from the support they've continued for their games in the past, I can see it only getting better.

As an aside, from the article here: it seems they've always wanted to go to consoles anyway, and I wouldn't blame them. PC gamers are cheap bastards, and hard to please to boot: not your ideal customer. I don't know how the tale about CDPR being an angel of the PC masterrace got started, probably to do with their excellent post-release support on PC and some PR people doing their job a bit too well, but it seems like having too stellar a reputation backfires in giving everyone an overdose of expectation.
 
x3sphere said:
TW2 looked pretty good but the graphics were nothing ground breaking.
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TW2 was pretty much universally praised as being one of the best looking games available at the time.

GearChoices said:
Exactly. Do not brand yourself as the developer that builds for PC then ports to console, and then build a console game and port it to PC with mediocre enhancements. Do not use a high-quality PC engine for marketing, transfer to a new engine because it would be "too expensive" to port the first one to consoles, and then lie about doing it. When people catch you in your initial lie, do not lie more and attempt to censor/silence those calling you out on it.

If plans change and you switch primary platforms from PC to console, be honest that you are no longer a PC-first developer. Be honest that you "had to" switch engines so that console development would be less expensive. You're going to have the support of PC enthusiasts anymore, but at least you won't have the active opposition of a larger group of people you disrespected and offended by repeatedly lying to them and attempting to censor/silence them.
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My sentiment precisely, which is why I am astonished by all the apologists who claim we shouldn't care because the game is great. Yup, the game is great, so why did CDProjekt habitually lie about the issue and therefore treat its customers like simpering retards. Hint....its because they didn't want the pre-order money to stop rolling in that was entirely based on the perception that they are a trust worthy PC first developer. That sort of behavior would not be tolerated in any other service industry. The downgrade was obvious all the way back in October 2014 but they lied repeatedly in a way that makes you question whether the PR staff at CDProjekt have a shred of integrity left in them.

Here are a couple more lies for completeness:

http://www.gamepur.com/news/11352-w...-visual-cutbacks-ps4xbox-one-relative-pc.html

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...timizing-in-a-way-that-doesnt-affect-visuals/

dmonkey said:
The problem with being honest is that it doesn't pay. People say they just want honesty, but that's not how it is. For a game they already sunk who knows how much money in, it would be suicide (or at least a massive waste of the marketing expenditure that comprises half of the budgets for this kind of media, be it a movie, or a game) for them to downplay it right before release. Whatever happened, the game is great, and from the support they've continued for their games in the past, I can see it only getting better.
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Load of apologist hogwash, now people are ludicrously claiming that its okay to lie....BECAUSE! My mind is actually blown by the circular logic and cognitive dissonance displayed. CDProjekt just torpedoed its reputation and good will, do you think anyone is ever going to believe a pre-release trailer or claims by CDProjekt or pre-order on the basis of that information?! I sure as fuck won't, they were the exception to my no pre-order rule but now like every other publisher I will wait for forum and youtube reviews before committing a dime. I know I am not the only person who shares this mindset, so all that CDProjekt has achieved by this short sightedness is loss of credibility for all future marketing and less pre-order revenue on all future games.

dmonkey said:
but it seems like having too stellar a reputation backfires in giving everyone an overdose of expectation.
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Yeah, nothing to do with repeatedly lying to fuel expectations that would never be fulfilled. :rolleyes:
 
Blade-Runner said:
TW2 was pretty much universally praised as being one of the best looking games available at the time.



My sentiment precisely, which is why I am astonished by all the apologists who claim we shouldn't care because the game is great. Yup, the game is great, so why did CDProjekt habitually lie about the issue and therefore treat its customers like simpering retards. Hint....its because they didn't want the pre-order money to stop rolling in that was entirely based on the perception that they are a trust worthy PC first developer. That sort of behavior would not be tolerated in any other service industry. The downgrade was obvious all the way back in October 2014 but they lied repeatedly in a way that makes you question whether the PR staff at CDProjekt have a shred of integrity left in them.

Here are a couple more lies for completeness:

http://www.gamepur.com/news/11352-w...-visual-cutbacks-ps4xbox-one-relative-pc.html

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...timizing-in-a-way-that-doesnt-affect-visuals/



Load of apologist hogwash, now people are ludicrously claiming that its okay to lie....BECAUSE! My mind is actually blown by the circular logic and cognitive dissonance displayed. CDProjekt just torpedoed its reputation and good will, do you think anyone is ever going to believe a pre-release trailer or claims by CDProjekt or pre-order on the basis of that information?! I sure as fuck won't, they were the exception to my no pre-order rule but now like every other publisher I will wait for forum and youtube reviews before committing a dime. I know I am not the only person who shares this mindset, so all that CDProjekt has achieved by this short sightedness is loss of credibility for all future marketing and less pre-order revenue on all future games.



Yeah, nothing to do with repeatedly lying to fuel expectations that would never be fulfilled. :rolleyes:
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Yeah, I'm sure they'll miss your potential earnings, but that's not as good as cash, mate.
 
dmonkey said:
The problem with being honest is that it doesn't pay. People say they just want honesty, but that's not how it is. For a game they already sunk who knows how much money in, it would be suicide (or at least a massive waste of the marketing expenditure that comprises half of the budgets for this kind of media, be it a movie, or a game) for them to downplay it right before release. Whatever happened, the game is great, and from the support they've continued for their games in the past, I can see it only getting better.
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I think your reasoning is disingenuous. As someone stated earlier, if they had come out saying that the consoles were their lead platform, PC users would be disappointed, but that's 10x better than showing gameplay footage that's been custom-tailored to take advantage of PC hardware and looks great, then do a bait-and-switch at the last minute. Nobody like that, I don't see why this is a difficult concept to understand. Hell, there was even some uproar for an Xbox ad where they were showing the PC copy running at full speed at 1080, something the Xbox can't do. So in other words, both PC users AND console users dislike this practice.

As an aside, from the article here: it seems they've always wanted to go to consoles anyway, and I wouldn't blame them. PC gamers are cheap bastards, and hard to please to boot: not your ideal customer. I don't know how the tale about CDPR being an angel of the PC masterrace got started, probably to do with their excellent post-release support on PC and some PR people doing their job a bit too well, but it seems like having too stellar a reputation backfires in giving everyone an overdose of expectation.
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You're obfuscating things. Once again, you don't demo footage with spectacular graphics custom-tailored to the PC, lie publicly and say it will look this good, KEEP saying that then downgrade everything upon release. NOBODY likes this, not just PC users. PC gamers are just quicker to notice it.
 
Look, it was clearly in their self-interest to do what they did. Which is why they did it. On the other hand, it's not really in our self-interest for them to do so (this is speaking loosely, because failure for them to deliver on hypothetical promises does not actually hurt anybody unless you can make the case that they deprived you of the opportunity to obtain the same or better "goods" elsewhere), which is why we dislike it. Yeah, I get it people are angry. But to think that they would've done any different for the sake of goodwill rather than maximize their financial gain (or minimize their financial losses, you could say) in such a position is just plain naive. So there's really no use complaining or "being mad" at this point.

The whole lesson of the matter is to make sloppy and lackluster demos, and then no one will ever blame you for anything.
 
dmonkey said:
Look, it was clearly in their self-interest to do what they did. Which is why they did it. On the other hand, it's not really in our self-interest for them to do so (this is speaking loosely, because failure for them to deliver on hypothetical promises does not actually hurt anybody unless you can make the case that they deprived you of the opportunity to obtain the same or better "goods" elsewhere), which is why we dislike it.
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Well maybe this was a typo, but they're not failing to deliver on hypothetical promises, they failed to deliver on concrete promises. They actually did make the promises, repeatedly. As for "harm", I'm not sure they could do ANY harm, since it's just a game, not poisoned food, I don't really see how that enters into the conversationn.

But to think that they would've done any different for the sake of goodwill rather than maximize their financial gain (or minimize their financial losses, you could say) in such a position is just plain naive. So there's really no use complaining or "being mad" at this point.
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See this is the part I don't understand. You keep saying by making a grand trailer that they know they can't deliver on, then lying about it up until launch, that's in their self-interest. How, exactly? Are there statistics showing that there's an increase in sales (or better yet, FUTURE sales), if you repeatedly overpromise something because most gamers forget about it by the time it launches? See, I would think it would be in their self-interest to just showcase something they know they can deliver on. I'm confused by this argument saying that's against their self-interest.
 
dmonkey said:
Look, it was clearly in their self-interest to do what they did. Which is why they did it. On the other hand, it's not really in our self-interest for them to do so (this is speaking loosely, because failure for them to deliver on hypothetical promises does not actually hurt anybody unless you can make the case that they deprived you of the opportunity to obtain the same or better "goods" elsewhere), which is why we dislike it. Yeah, I get it people are angry. But to think that they would've done any different for the sake of goodwill rather than maximize their financial gain (or minimize their financial losses, you could say) in such a position is just plain naive. So there's really no use complaining or "being mad" at this point.

The whole lesson of the matter is to make sloppy and lackluster demos, and then no one will ever blame you for anything.
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The Internet Outrage Machine really just wanted the developer to get on cam and record a video having a tearful breakdown of the realization that the vertical slice shown at E3 fell apart when the game world scaled, and that concessions had to be made.

And had they done that, would IOM have been satisfied? Fuck no. They would have merely twisted it into another negative- "LOL okay so they just said the game is gunna suck LOL what a bunch of idiots, ngggggg" and the gaming sites would've been right there riding that negativity wave.

There would have been zero upside for CDPR to make any grand statements or announcements about changes being made during development. And the reddit kiddies wouldn't have cared anyway.
 
tetris42 said:
then lying about it up until launch, that's in their self-interest.
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How did they "lie up until launch" when the gaming sites have been featuring final gameplay graphics for months, the developer was sending early access copies far and wide, the developer has been on Twitch showing final gameplay video since weeks, and they let reviewers loose more than a week before launch?

You guys are really getting boring.
 
DPI said:
The Internet Outrage Machine really just wanted the developer to get on cam and record a video having a tearful breakdown of the realization that the vertical slice shown at E3 fell apart when the game world scaled, and that concessions had to be made.

And had they done that, would IOM have been satisfied? Fuck no. They would have merely twisted it into another negative- "LOL okay so they just said the game is gunna suck LOL what a bunch of idiots, ngggggg" and the gaming sites would've been right there riding that negativity wave.

There would have been zero upside for CDPR to make any grand statements or announcements about changes being made during development. And the reddit kiddies wouldn't have cared anyway.
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DPI said:
How did they "lie up until launch" when the gaming sites have been featuring final gameplay graphics for months, the developer was sending early access copies far and wide, the developer has been on Twitch showing final gameplay video since weeks, and they let reviewers loose more than a week before launch?

You guys are really getting boring.
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Exactly. They can't really "overpromise" because they can't know exactly what they can deliver ahead of time in the first place. And like you said, there have been preview videos showing exactly what we see today as far back as April (that I've seen, probably further) if you look at their Youtube channel. They really didn't lie about anything. That they didn't say outright "the game looks like crap, don't buy it" is because they're a company responsible to themselves and their product, not self-deprecating redditors looking for attention and sympathy by playing the pity card.
 
DPI said:
How did they "lie up until launch" when the gaming sites have been featuring final gameplay graphics for months, the developer was sending early access copies far and wide, the developer has been on Twitch showing final gameplay video since weeks, and they let reviewers loose more than a week before launch?

You guys are really getting boring.
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Exactly. They can't really "overpromise" because they can't know exactly what they can deliver ahead of time in the first place. And like you said, there have been preview videos showing exactly what we see today as far back as April (that I've seen, probably further) if you look at their Youtube channel. They really didn't lie about anything.
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You know, it's really easy to draw conclusions when you ignore key information. This has already been covered in this very thread. Here's a refresher:

"The final version of the game will look better than what can be seen in the latest screenshots – no matter the platform"
-CD Projekt, Winter, 2014

So that's lie #1, since that was demonstrably not true.

As for lie #2, it's denying there was any downgrade whatsoever until what, the past week? Check the rest of this thread for multiple quotes denying any downgrade, I know people have already posted.

That's two specific lies, please explain to me how promising something in concrete terms you don't deliver isn't a lie. Again, making this real simple, since apparently people keep missing it:

Lie 1: The game will look BETTER than anything shown in 2014 on every platform.
Lie 2: There was never a graphics downgrade.
 
tetris42 said:
Lie 1: The game will look BETTER than anything shown in 2014 on every platform.
Lie 2: There was never a graphics downgrade.
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Yeah, but, I mean who doesn't lie? Bill about BJs, Hillary to congress and videos, Brian Williams made up stories... we're numb man! ;)
 
tetris42 said:
You know, it's really easy to draw conclusions when you ignore key information. This has already been covered in this very thread. Here's a refresher:

"The final version of the game will look better than what can be seen in the latest screenshots – no matter the platform"
-CD Projekt, Winter, 2014

So that's lie #1, since that was demonstrably not true.

As for lie #2, it's denying there was any downgrade whatsoever until what, the past week? Check the rest of this thread for multiple quotes denying any downgrade, I know people have already posted.

That's two specific lies, please explain to me how promising something in concrete terms you don't deliver isn't a lie. Again, making this real simple, since apparently people keep missing it:

Lie 1: The game will look BETTER than anything shown in 2014 on every platform.
Lie 2: There was never a graphics downgrade.
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Yeah, OK, go sue them.
 
lets see what develops with future patches...the statements coming out of CDPR make it seem like they are going to add in ini tweaks and visual upgrade settings with upcoming patches...sounds like they are trying to give the PC community what they want but it'll take some time
 
Ducman69 said:
Yeah, but, I mean who doesn't lie? Bill about BJs, Hillary to congress and videos, Brian Williams made up stories... we're numb man! ;)
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Yeah, but there's a difference between being numb v. "they never lied!" like some people here seem to be spinning.
 
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