The WC Thread: You got questions, we got answers!

Fluoro said:
Morning lads.

Just wondering if there's any good guides to pumps about. I really don't know anything about what to look for, what sort of pressure I'd need or... anything else really. Thanks a lot.
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An MCP655 is pretty much the best pump available. It's more reliable (although slightly less powerful than the DDC+ with a modded top) and is capable of powering though even the most demanding setups (think, quad SLI and a dual CPU type dealie). It's got a built in rheostat to control the flowrate which also reduces noise.

DarkenReaper57 said:
Hello everyone,

I know this has been asked before, but I can't exactly find a concise answer. I am looking to purchase a new pump for quieter operation, but maintain or increase my level of performance.

I currently am using a 2nd-hand AquaXtreme 50Z. It has gotten more noisy in the past few months or so, possibly due to age. I run a 1/2" ID system with 7/16 ID tubing (yes, I know 3/8 has almost no penalty now, but I built this external enclosure long before Cathar ran the recent tests.

I'm looking at the following pumps: D5, DDC, DDC+. I also see the DDC2, but is that not the DDC+?

Which one is the quietest overall yet yielding at least on-par performance to my AquaXtreme 50Z? I'm looking at the D5 simply because it has 1/2 fittings and has a speed control, thus I can adjust the level of noise.
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Get a D5. At "2" it's totally silent... And I don't get any performance loss from going from "5" to "2" (that's right, not even a SINGLE degree).

The DDC+ with modded tops have a much higher failure rate.

jjolin said:
is a shroud worthless if im going to be pulling with 2 fans, with this rad on the bottom of my case?

http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=48
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Shrouds only increase performance by 1-5% anyways... Generally around 2-3%, so I'd say they're worthless really. About the difference of adding in your SB to a loop with a double radiator...
 
kaluminati said:
I'll get straight to the point:

I'm looking to try out a WC setup.

a) to keep the heat down on my CPU, chipset, and GPU (minus the GPU if it adds to much to the cost).

b) to keep the noise down.

c) increased cooling for LIGHT overclocking, nothing crazy.

d) Looks do not matter to me, especially since it will be in a p180 case.

In terms of cost.. I'm lookin to keep it under $200, under $150 if it's possible. And something thats a tad bit easy to assemble, for someone who hasn't done this before.

specs:
e6400 Core 2 Duo 2.13 ghz currently; plan to OC it back up to 3.2ghz where I had it before, completely stable.
Antec p180 (3 hds, 1 optical)
eVGA 8800GTS 640mb
2GB ram

Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated, especially since I don't want to go out and pick up a random kit that would cost more then the parts bought separately. I looked around a bit and it doesn't seem like there has been someone looking for the kind of setup I need. If it's dangerous or not possible to get a decent setup with my budget, just say so :)
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With that GTS in the loop you're looking at a bit more than 200$. A cpu only loop would be as follows... I recommend all DangerDen parts due to their cheaper nature, and great potential for cooling a dual core CPU (quad cores need a Dtek Fuzion waterblock...)

TDX and D5 pump combo ~130$
BIP320 (yes, a triple... Double would be fine if you forgoe the GPU) ~ 45$
Maze 4 for your specific board (there are a few different kinds for different boards) ~45$ (I'd just get a nice NB heatsink for around 20$ instead...)
10ft of Masterkleer tubing and 3x Yate Loon fans = ~15$

All prices are from dangerdenstore.com

If you want a GPU, make sure to add in a 100$ 8800GTS waterblock (get the EK one, as the DangerDen one is horrible) and grab that triple radiator.

Add in a radbox if you need to mount the radiator externally.
 
EverestX said:
I made a purchase from Performance-pc's and they have sent me, what I believe to be the wrong radiator. I ordered a Cooling Works 32t and I have received a Black Ice GTS360

The box the rad came in was a unlabeled cardboard box, so I really cant confirm one way or another other than by pic alone.

While I realize the radiator I have received is higher priced on their site, I am concerned about the performance on medium speed fans, I will be using some fans similar to Yates on a fan controller. Can anyone confirm a positive or negative performance difference.

I am trying to build a Quiet rig, and I believe the GTS has a much higher fin density and will run much louder.
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With a medium speed fan, the GTS will outperform the CW radiators by a fair margin (10-20%) but as soon as you drop below 7v on those fans, the CW radiator starts to surpass the GTS.
 
Hey, quick question... anybody know of any reviews for the Flow Performance CPU Block, even better if you use them yourself.

I would just get another Apogee GT but it's going in a tight space and this block is quite compact.
 
Practicality/Performance Question:
Is it feasable to have 1 loop with 2 rads and 2 pumps?
More specifically to try: (the flow order is probably screwy)
240mm rad > Apogee Drive pump/block > chipset blocks > another 120mm rad > another pump > 2 gpu blocks > Res > back to 240mm rad

Haven't tried H2O cooling before, but i'll probably start with the Swiftech compact 120 kit first. I just have doubts that the built in pump will handle a full watercooling setup. The 240mm rad i have in mind is the Black Ice Stealth 240. The dimensions are spec'd as a 25mm thick rad, so i'm thinking it won't be able to handle an OC'd quad core with chipset blocks and dual gpu setup. The 2nd rad, leftover from the kit should be able to handle the gpu's on its own. For the possible 2nd pump, i want something quiet. Pretty much i'm looking for cool temps to handle PHX heat while keeping noise down.

I'm getting a 2nd job to get a lift for my 4x4, so whats another month to buy my next pc? I might as well aim high. ETA for this rig is Jan/Feb 08.

btw: can't do 360mm rad for this setup.
 
Arcygenical said:
With that GTS in the loop you're looking at a bit more than 200$. A cpu only loop would be as follows... I recommend all DangerDen parts due to their cheaper nature, and great potential for cooling a dual core CPU (quad cores need a Dtek Fuzion waterblock...)

TDX and D5 pump combo ~130$
BIP320 (yes, a triple... Double would be fine if you forgoe the GPU) ~ 45$
Maze 4 for your specific board (there are a few different kinds for different boards) ~45$ (I'd just get a nice NB heatsink for around 20$ instead...)
10ft of Masterkleer tubing and 3x Yate Loon fans = ~15$

All prices are from dangerdenstore.com

If you want a GPU, make sure to add in a 100$ 8800GTS waterblock (get the EK one, as the DangerDen one is horrible) and grab that triple radiator.

Add in a radbox if you need to mount the radiator externally.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll try this setup out.
 
dj_taboo said:
Practicality/Performance Question:
Is it feasable to have 1 loop with 2 rads and 2 pumps?
More specifically to try: (the flow order is probably screwy)
240mm rad > Apogee Drive pump/block > chipset blocks > another 120mm rad > another pump > 2 gpu blocks > Res > back to 240mm rad

Haven't tried H2O cooling before, but i'll probably start with the Swiftech compact 120 kit first. I just have doubts that the built in pump will handle a full watercooling setup. The 240mm rad i have in mind is the Black Ice Stealth 240. The dimensions are spec'd as a 25mm thick rad, so i'm thinking it won't be able to handle an OC'd quad core with chipset blocks and dual gpu setup. The 2nd rad, leftover from the kit should be able to handle the gpu's on its own. For the possible 2nd pump, i want something quiet. Pretty much i'm looking for cool temps to handle PHX heat while keeping noise down.

I'm getting a 2nd job to get a lift for my 4x4, so whats another month to buy my next pc? I might as well aim high. ETA for this rig is Jan/Feb 08.

btw: can't do 360mm rad for this setup.
Click to expand...

Yes you can have one loop with two rads and two pumps. The 2nd pump is going to dump a extra heat into the loop however. It's minimal, but just keep that in mind. I would only use one pump unless I'm going for a double loop, but up to you.

If the Swiftech compact 120 comes with the 18w MCP355 then that pump will handle your entire loop. Perhaps not optimally, but should be fine. If it comes with the MCP350, I'd avoid it. In fact, if I were to buy a kit, I'd probably get the Swiftech H2O-220-Apex Ultra anyway, which comes with a decent double rad and the MCP655.

Go for the shortest, least restrictive loop instead of worrying about trival things like loop order, which doesn't matter much anyway.

For your planned upgrade, I'd prefer the the swiftech double rad (or even a GTX) over the 25mm stealth 240.

In fact, rather than start with the Swiftech compact then upgrade, perhaps it may be better to build what you want the first time. You'll probably end up saving money and saving time.
 
Hey guys,

I have begun reading through a few of the threads here in this page, but there are tons and not able to find my specific questions. I'm going to throw them out there, and as always I thank you in advance for your anticipated help!

My system is going to be a Q6600, not sure what video but probably an EVGA 8800 or something along the lines...

1) For cases, what cases do you guys usually recommend, that are cheap and yet have ample room to do water cooling? I am looking to house my entire setup within the case. I previously won a full danger den water cooling set, with a 5 1/4" bay reservoir, a 120mm radiator w/ fan, and a hydor pump. The radiator is probably going to be housed in the rear of the PC, so I'm hoping there will be room between the rear fan & the CPU block.

2) Which is better: Fill Port, or Reservoir? I was on Danger Den's website, I know they sell fill ports, and they also did an easy video based on how to set it up. However, my kit came with a Reservoir, and personally since I would like to add UV lights I think it would be great to show the bay off.

3) Are two radiators going to make a huge difference?
One of their setups, they showed how to install a secondary radiator near the top of the case, how to compensate for the CDRoms, and also how to drill w/ fan. Granted this is more of a pricy option, I'm not sure if I will be going for it unless it's absolutely necessary.

4) Should I purchase the GPU cooler?
I'm curious if i should go the whole way with this. I'm really interested in a quiet system, but I don't know if a VGA cooler is going to be necessary. What do you guys think?

5) What kind of water products will I need to get?
I'm interested in getting some kind of UV Die, but what kind of water do I use? I believe they included something called "Water Wetter" in the case, but not sure... what should I pick up, and how much dye to I use? I think I'm looking for UV blue dye... still not sure.

I think that's it for now! Since I've been speccing this new system, and getting back into wanting to use my water cooling, everything is beginning to seem easier now. My biggest problems (and causing me to be lazy) was wondering how I can mount everything, but in one day everything seems to have clicked with me.
 
Punkrulz said:
Hey guys,

I have begun reading through a few of the threads here in this page, but there are tons and not able to find my specific questions. I'm going to throw them out there, and as always I thank you in advance for your anticipated help!

My system is going to be a Q6600, not sure what video but probably an EVGA 8800 or something along the lines...

1) For cases, what cases do you guys usually recommend, that are cheap and yet have ample room to do water cooling? I am looking to house my entire setup within the case. I previously won a full danger den water cooling set, with a 5 1/4" bay reservoir, a 120mm radiator w/ fan, and a hydor pump. The radiator is probably going to be housed in the rear of the PC, so I'm hoping there will be room between the rear fan & the CPU block.

2) Which is better: Fill Port, or Reservoir? I was on Danger Den's website, I know they sell fill ports, and they also did an easy video based on how to set it up. However, my kit came with a Reservoir, and personally since I would like to add UV lights I think it would be great to show the bay off.

3) Are two radiators going to make a huge difference?
One of their setups, they showed how to install a secondary radiator near the top of the case, how to compensate for the CDRoms, and also how to drill w/ fan. Granted this is more of a pricy option, I'm not sure if I will be going for it unless it's absolutely necessary.

4) Should I purchase the GPU cooler?
I'm curious if i should go the whole way with this. I'm really interested in a quiet system, but I don't know if a VGA cooler is going to be necessary. What do you guys think?

5) What kind of water products will I need to get?
I'm interested in getting some kind of UV Die, but what kind of water do I use? I believe they included something called "Water Wetter" in the case, but not sure... what should I pick up, and how much dye to I use? I think I'm looking for UV blue dye... still not sure.

I think that's it for now! Since I've been speccing this new system, and getting back into wanting to use my water cooling, everything is beginning to seem easier now. My biggest problems (and causing me to be lazy) was wondering how I can mount everything, but in one day everything seems to have clicked with me.
Click to expand...

1. There's plenty of choices, and what's good for you depends on how much you're willing to mod. Lian Li V1000 and V2000 (there are tons of variants as well) are very popular, but most likely will require a little bit of modding. CM Stackers (again, several different versions, but they're all big) are excellent for water cooling, because you can fit most anything inside without worrying about having the room, and you can stick your radiator(s) up front quite easily.

Really, for water cooling, you want to look for large, roomy cases that have unobstructed 120mm fan mounts (for single 120mm radiators), or ideally, 2 120mm fan mounts in a row (great for installing a 2x120mm rad) or space to put a 2(or 3)x120mm rad (such as Stackers - most can fit a 2 or 3x120 rad up front, some have a bottom vent for a 2, even 3x120). Other nice things to have are holes for external radiator mounting - if you can't mount it internally, you can fashion something yourself, or use a Swiftech Radbox. Oh, 80mm fans aren't the devil either, you'll most likely be able to get by without them (a 120mm intake and 120mm exhaust for internal airflow is plenty for a water cooled system), or just undervolt them. 120mm fans are ideal, because you can usually use them to help mount a radiator or Radbox.

2. Both a reservoir and a T-line work just fine - their goal is too bleed the system, and with enough time and proper installation, both will get the job done. FillPorts can be used to provide an easier method to top off reservoirs, and can also act as caps and top off access for T-lines - the other most common method for bleeding loops. Assuming you want to use your bay reservoir, you don't need to use a FillPort at all - if you never want to have to take out your reservoir to top off your loop, then it can be of value to you.

If you're talking about reservoir vs. T-line with a FillPort, reservoirs bleed quicker and (depending on taste) can offer some cosmetic value, while T-lines are usually cheaper (FillPorts close the price gap though) and can be easier to fit in a case.

3. Adding a second radiator (assuming it's identical to the first) should cut your water to air delta temperature in half. Your final CPU temperatue (although this applies to every water cooled component) can (usually) be calculated by adding the temperature of the water to the ambient air near the radiator intake (water delta) plus the C/W of the waterblock times the heat load. Doubling the radiator dissipation means you (should) halve the water to air difference, say from a water temperature of 35*C to 30*C (an average loop might have an air to water delta of 10*C, and a radiator intake at 25*C). Adding more radiators makes more of a difference with higher heat loads, so you'll see a bigger difference by adding another radiator if you're cooling both your Q6600 and an 8800 rather than just the quad.

4. It all depends. I'm not very familiar with the noise level/performance of EVGA stock air, but sticking a water block on your 8800 will definitely lower your temps by at least 20*C. The bigger advantage to today's water cooling is the reduction in noise by cooling multiple components, eliminating a fan or at least swapping out some noisy GPU fan(s) for quieter 120mm fans on a radiator. You'd be looking at at least $70 for a GPU-only block and some ramsinks, or $100 for a good full cover 8800 block. The drawback of full cover blocks are (obviously) higher price, slightly reduced core cooling, and less resale/reuse value. That full cover block will most likely only ever work for that specific card, so keep that in mind.

I'd highly recommending either purchasing a 2x120mm radiator (MCR220 is a good choice) or at the very least another 120mm radiator (should be easy to mount internally) for your quad. If you're thinking of ever adding your GPU to your loop, go for an 2x120 and use both in your loop - or even go for a 3x120. 2-120mm radiators will be able to manage a Q6600 and an 8800, but you will see an improvement going for a total for 3 (or even 4, with the old 120mm as well) x 120mm total radiator size.

5. Standard water cooling fluid is distilled water ($1/gallon at a grocery store) and something to prevent algae growth. Water Wetter is a bit controversial, as some say it eats away at acrylic, while others say it works just fine preventing algae growth and corrosion (which you shouldn't have to worry about). As for UV blue dyes, there are plenty of different choices, just remember that you'll probably want some biocide (such as PT_Nuke).

Yes, it is a lot to go over, but once you get what you need, set aside a solid day or two, and you should be able to get up and running.
 
vict0r said:
when watercooling, do you use Artic Silver 5 paste??
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You can use it just like with air cooled heat sinks, which means that if you're messy applying it, there is a small chance to short something if you get it on exposed contacts, such as GPU components (depends on the card, but GPU cores often have a greater chance for electrical contact than CPUs).
 
I've got a question:
I am currently using a danger den water block the TDX, and it is fitted with 3/8 inch barbs, would it be possible to go to larger barbs say 1/2 inch without buying a new block or am I stuck with purchasing a block with 1/2 barbs on it already?
 
[H]arrod;1031621880 said:
I've got a question:
I am currently using a danger den water block the TDX, and it is fitted with 3/8 inch barbs, would it be possible to go to larger barbs say 1/2 inch without buying a new block or am I stuck with purchasing a block with 1/2 barbs on it already?
Click to expand...

You can probably just buy the 1/2" barbs from dangerdenstore.

I forget the threading on the TDX, but I believe all DD blocks use the same threads.
 
Question, as I'm looking to upgrade in the nearish future, and want to stay on water when I do.

I'm currently running an opty 165 @ 2.8ghz & a 7800GTX in my loop, on a TDX and Maze 4 respectively. I'm using a BIP240, D5 pump, and a DD dual 3.5" bay res. Now, if I upgrade to a 8800GT, and a C2Q6600, will I need to upgrade any of the cooling components? I can get new mounting hardware for both blocks, but I'm concerned about if it'll be enough cooling for moderate overclocking. If I need to upgrade, where would be the best point to do so? I'm thinking a fusion and a full cover block for the 8800GT, but I'm a little concerned about the rad.
 
Ok, I'm going to build a system in a year, totally high end, top line SLI and top extreme CPU. I thought I'd come here and learn a little before I get to the building but right now I'm more confused than I ever was before I came here.
Isn't there just "kits" that can go on say a high end system or one for a mid range, or do I have to sus it all out part by part. That really makes me want to just waste the money and have Alienware set it up for me. I've also always noticed that the GPU's have water blocks but don't see much of anything on the video ram cooling.
So tell me true, am I expecting life to be too easy when it comes to water cooling. I mean, I read a 1200 page book to learn how to build my own system, do I need to read another to learn water cooling?
 
Quick simple question:

I want to maybe include cooling SB & NB on my ABIT IP35 Pro mobo, and was taking a look at EK's blocks or chipset blocks in general @ Petra's.

I see that they are specific to each individual chipset/mobo maker sometimes, and is there really no chipset block for my P35 abit ip35 pro?
 
BriSleep said:
Ok, I'm going to build a system in a year, totally high end, top line SLI and top extreme CPU. I thought I'd come here and learn a little before I get to the building but right now I'm more confused than I ever was before I came here.
Isn't there just "kits" that can go on say a high end system or one for a mid range, or do I have to sus it all out part by part. That really makes me want to just waste the money and have Alienware set it up for me. I've also always noticed that the GPU's have water blocks but don't see much of anything on the video ram cooling.
So tell me true, am I expecting life to be too easy when it comes to water cooling. I mean, I read a 1200 page book to learn how to build my own system, do I need to read another to learn water cooling?
Click to expand...

You're not likely to find a kit that'll handle two high end GPUs in SLI and a quad core well (and probably north/southbridge as well -- if you're doing it, do it right). Buying part by part is much more likely to give you something you actually want to work with, anyway.

No you don't need a book. You don't need a 1200 page book to build a computer, either. Just read through here, check out reviews, be patient, and know what you're getting in to before you make purchases.
 
You guys think a PA120.3 can handle an overclocked Q6600(Q9450 in future) and an overclocked 8800GTX (9 series in future)?

I am thinking about doing a loop and can't decide between PA120.2 with the CPU only or a PA120. with the GPU and CPU.
 
Currently have an e6700, but will be looking to cool an OCed Q6600 at 3.3-3.5ish. Woud prefer a quieter setup VS higher overclock. I was wondering if a single Black Ice Extreme would cool this well coupled with a dtek fuzion? Ive read they require some powerful (louder?) fans, i would likely be using two scythe sflex in push/pull, at lower speed, that should suffice for decently quiet with enough airflow, no?

Was thinking something like 425ish x 8 on a P35 board, should i consider northbridge cooling as well? I would like to keep the rad a single 120, im not looking to hack up my case unless i absolutely have to.

Case is an Antec P182.
 
I am now looking to get a WC system but for my Q6600 only at this time. I need a quiet PC as I currently have 5 fans running.

I was looking at Swiftech's H20-120 but their test shows that under 27c ambient core speed at 3000mhz and vcore at 1.296, the temp would be around 60c.
I am currently using the Tuniq Tower & my temps are 36 to 43 (core 4 to core 1).

So, which compact WC setup would be best for this set up?
I doubt I plan on watercooling my 8800gt when I get one.
For now, I just want to quiet my machine & maybe lower the temps some more.
 
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