siliconnerd
[H]ard|Gawd
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The PSU Label Debate
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Solidstate89
Gawd
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Dayum son. Silverstone just owned Coolermaster. Hard.
Interesting to note that Silverstone was founded by ex-Coolermaster employees. Perhaps a little payback?
Interesting to note that Silverstone was founded by ex-Coolermaster employees. Perhaps a little payback?
I really don't understand why CoolerMaster would f^(% up this bad. Most of their products are very good. I know that their PSU line has needed an upgrade, but why blatantly lie about it. This just make them look untrustworthy and makes me want to stay away from ALL their products , not just their PSUs.
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The realist will tell you that all* brands lie (it's called marketing spin), its just a matter of about what and when they get caught. In this case, CoolerMaster apparently did a very poor job with their marketing spin and got caught quickly.
Ashbringer
Supreme [H]ardness
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Anyone got a working link to that video?
Freezebyte
2[H]4U
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Don't think i'll be purchasing anything Coolermaster anytime soon. Good work CM....
Judd Sandage
Limp Gawd
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- Jun 6, 2004
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really CM? just... no, I was going to buy the HAF X, now its the Tt level 10 GT.
Level 10GT FTW
CM FTL
Kudos to Silverstone.
I consider myself pretty literate when it comes to tech, but I the things I don't fully understand (such as power supplies) I rely on third party reviews to guide my decision.
For instance, almost bought a CM GX650. Pulled out my phone and did a quick search. The GX was put back on the shelf almost immediately.
I consider myself pretty literate when it comes to tech, but I the things I don't fully understand (such as power supplies) I rely on third party reviews to guide my decision.
For instance, almost bought a CM GX650. Pulled out my phone and did a quick search. The GX was put back on the shelf almost immediately.
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Oh come on, people would not want to buy their products over this, gimme a break. Its the fail of a few individual(s?), what the heck does that have to do with CM in general? I can hear the cries already, "but what about the misdirection on something like a 500W implication on said PS?! Please, if you dont know that everyone is fudging the numbers a little bit, you are surely just a moron and havent done your research. Since the beginning of PS time, they have overrated their products.
It wasnt until there was a higher end enthusiast section did they start "underrating" their products to allow for wiggle room at the high end. Was this likely done to be "HONEST", I highly suspect not. This was done because at the high end, a user WILL very likely use that much power and I doubt they want a lot of people pushing their products to an area where they will in fact fail, and yet be within their claimed ratings.
The truth, just about every company out there is doing just enough to make the product perform as needed and not a damn bit more. They are in fact a business and I dont blame them. Much less CM.
Personally I have found their products fine, I read the ratings, I read reviews, and make the best decision I can. Unfortunately not everyone does... To each their own.
It wasnt until there was a higher end enthusiast section did they start "underrating" their products to allow for wiggle room at the high end. Was this likely done to be "HONEST", I highly suspect not. This was done because at the high end, a user WILL very likely use that much power and I doubt they want a lot of people pushing their products to an area where they will in fact fail, and yet be within their claimed ratings.
The truth, just about every company out there is doing just enough to make the product perform as needed and not a damn bit more. They are in fact a business and I dont blame them. Much less CM.
Personally I have found their products fine, I read the ratings, I read reviews, and make the best decision I can. Unfortunately not everyone does... To each their own.
ramrod126
Weaksauce
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I love my HAF-X.
Them lying like every other company will not make me love it any less. That being said i only use Corsair power supplies so this really doesn't affect me directly anyway.
Them lying like every other company will not make me love it any less. That being said i only use Corsair power supplies so this really doesn't affect me directly anyway.
+1 for Corsair
I posted too!! lol
corsair or pcp&c. Havn't bought anything else for years.
I can say that I am not really surprised by the mess up by Coolermaster’s PR people. I am pleased that Silverstone caught them and called them on it. I guess pulling the video is a good way to try to make the issue go away. It will only be a matter of time before some numb-skull tries to make a few bucks with a class action law suit, who knows it might actually work.
I advise my friends to look at the labels, record the numbers and double check them to make sure they are actually correct or within reason (+/-10%). Ignore model numbers as they are usually not related to reality any more than Harry Potter is. Trust a company to deliver exactly what is on the spec sheet, nothing more or less. If it delivers less, complain until it is resolved or sue their pants off if they will not resolve it.
On a side note: I gave up on CoolerMaster a few years ago when I could not keep a CPU cool with thier product. Returned the product to a local retailer got a different cooler and put five bucks in my pocket. The different cooler worked a lot better.
I advise my friends to look at the labels, record the numbers and double check them to make sure they are actually correct or within reason (+/-10%). Ignore model numbers as they are usually not related to reality any more than Harry Potter is. Trust a company to deliver exactly what is on the spec sheet, nothing more or less. If it delivers less, complain until it is resolved or sue their pants off if they will not resolve it.
On a side note: I gave up on CoolerMaster a few years ago when I could not keep a CPU cool with thier product. Returned the product to a local retailer got a different cooler and put five bucks in my pocket. The different cooler worked a lot better.
rat
Supreme [H]ardness
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If it doesn't have the 80 Plus logo on it, it's not 80+... Which is more than half the shelf in any given computer supply store.
While caveat emptor is always a good rule of thumb...apathy is even worse IMO.
"Please, if you dont know that everyone is fudging the numbers a little bit..." Ahh my bad. As long as it's ok to intentionally mislead your customers since they know that you're full of shit to start with!! *whew! Close call there!*
Good thing we don't need to even *try* and keep companies/govt's/whatever in check (honest).
Yes, it was in fact. Just like consumers had to keep 3dfx, nvidia, ati, amd, intel, ok ...damn near any major corporate entity in check. If you DONT call them on it, they'll continue to do what they're doing.
It's a nasty ongoing volley that must continue to be lobbed, because even as sick of it as we ALL are...if you don't do it, you *will lose* in the end. Hate the players and the game. Love those that at least TRY to keep it honest.
PS: If everyone felt like you, you wouldn't have any reviews to read. As we'd all just be swallowing whatever was put in front of us (whether we objected or not) since there wouldn't be enough strength/unity left to object WITH to matter to the producer of said product(s).
Sad day though for CM as a company. As they have had some decent products in the past. But even the "mighty" slip and fall. Like life, it's all about how you recover.
This type of story keeps the major players in the industry honest (or at least more than they might have been without stories like these) -if not at least for a brief period til the bad PR blows over. [Foregoing the no-name players, as they'll always bottom feed and rename/reform as necessary anyways.]
I truly feel your frustration...but we cannot afford to give up!!!! It's the only hope we have of keeping an honest playing field (if not at least an informed one).
What's depressing isn't even the terrible marketing people who came up with this. It's the fact they still sell really crappy psus. There's a difference between a budget psu like Earthwatts/CX and just crap. If coolermaster really wanted to be serious about the psu market, they'd EOL all the actual crap. Then make some real quality budget psus instead. This is what we get from Antec and Corsair, which is why I can generally trust cheap people looking at those brands for psus.
You do realize that Antec had a huge number of low end power supplies fail a few years ago. They were caught using cheap components and it cost them. Well they dont actually make power supplies but they used cheap manufacturers (CMC i think?)
Phoenix333
2[H]4U
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Here's a novel concept. Make a good product, and tell the truth, and you don't have to worry about how to spin it. The product will sell itself. For example, I have a Coolermaster HAF-932. It is an excellent case and I feel it is worth every penny I paid for it. It does exactly what I need it to do and does it well. I never once saw an advertisement for it, nobody "explained" it to me, I just looked over the features and saw that it fit my needs.
Coolermaster, please take the opportunity to learn from this. You cannot fudge numbers and fool the tech savvy so don't even try. Just improve your power supplies, let the [H] torture test them, and if they come out with an Enthusiast Award you'll make some serious money. It's really not any harder than that, and it sure beats damage control.
Coolermaster, please take the opportunity to learn from this. You cannot fudge numbers and fool the tech savvy so don't even try. Just improve your power supplies, let the [H] torture test them, and if they come out with an Enthusiast Award you'll make some serious money. It's really not any harder than that, and it sure beats damage control.
Really old news. I thought we were long past this. Let's get to existing psus that are [H]ard instead.
Not taking CM's side, but do you recall a certain processor company *cough AMD cough* labeling their processors with numbers that weren't their actual speed? It's just marketing 101 and it always will be. These companies feel they can't make the all mighty dollar with an honest product.
Silent Knight
[H]ard|Gawd
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That explains why Silverstone mentioned the "Company C" in their AP fan advertisement lol.
Well,imo CM should stick with making computer cases and cooling system instead of teaching customers about PSU.They COOLER Master,not PSU Master after all.
The problem is the vast majority of the masses don't care.
They vote with there wallet on which product is best to them, and unfortunately price is winner. Out of the power supplies we sell, it breaks down to
80% - are cheap made in china no name 500W that probably couldn't push 200W if there life depended on it ... all because they cost $25.
18% - are cheap coolermaster or OCZ 600W that retail for $50, little better in quality, but not much
2% - are real power supplies that I would actually trust in a system.
They vote with there wallet on which product is best to them, and unfortunately price is winner. Out of the power supplies we sell, it breaks down to
80% - are cheap made in china no name 500W that probably couldn't push 200W if there life depended on it ... all because they cost $25.
18% - are cheap coolermaster or OCZ 600W that retail for $50, little better in quality, but not much
2% - are real power supplies that I would actually trust in a system.
eh that was not the same Intel drilled in to every one then that clock speed was king
AMD had just as good a CPU that ran at slower clock speeds they had to do some thing to make the spec sheets look good to joe sixpack
Are you sure you want to take that route? Cause if memory serves AMD started with the AthlonXP performance branding when their processors with lower clock-speed ripped the Pentium 4's of the time to shreds.
I also seem to recall AMD pushing for a Universal Processor Rating so that consumers could accurately compare processors.
I also recall AMD's competitor(s) at the time declining to invest in a Universal Performance Rating. I also recall those competitor(s) moving to their own performance based brandings in short order when (their) flagship product hit a heat / speed ratio, and the competitor(s) had to fall back to a rework of an older architecture in order to regain competitive performance.
Here's a hint Eko. Don't try to rewrite the history of AMD v. Intel to support stunts like the one pulled by Coolermaster here.
AMD's rebranding efforts were not intentionally done to mislead consumers into buying sub-par products, although one could make the case that some individual releases (Xp 3200+) were not really as performance competitive as the branding might indicate.
Now, if you want to focus on another major tech player that used a rebranding to sell off a clearly inferior product, or to just get units moving that weren't selling... try looking here: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88&pgno=5
Ummm.. AMD NEVER claimed their processors to run at the Mhz that the model number was.
Except for those PSUs with fake 80Plus badges.
It wasn't just their low end, but even their (at the time) highest end TruePower and early TruePower 2 PSUs that were also affected. Oh yeah, almost all motherboard manufacturers were affected too, so it isn't as if Antec intentionally did this. Well, they probably intentionally tried to use less costly parts, but I'm sure as a company that stands behind their products with good warranty service, they very likely NEVER intentionally made their units to not meet spec.
This is the unfortunate truth. Of course enthusiasts in forums swing 180º, with otherwise decent PSUs being called "crap" just because the latest/greatest does 0.005% less ripple.
I swear... tech forums seem to attract the obsessive types.
As opposed to another certain processor company *cough Intel cough* that sold several boat loads of super duper high gigahurtz "P4 class Celeron" processors to unsuspecting consumers who thought they were getting a nice, fast system.
been using corsair at home, for family, for builds i do for people and in the office I support, ive have a couple go bad but its expected, the difference is the support you get when that happens which ive been happy with
but the over rating of power supplies needs to stop its been years ongoing with the magic numbers some companies put out... i dont know how these cheap chinese OEM PSU's back in the p3 p4 era got away with it but systems that needed 300w psus would blow up the "450" w ones all the time
but the over rating of power supplies needs to stop its been years ongoing with the magic numbers some companies put out... i dont know how these cheap chinese OEM PSU's back in the p3 p4 era got away with it but systems that needed 300w psus would blow up the "450" w ones all the time
defaultluser
[H]F Junkie
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This is true. The SmartPower 2.0 series contained capacitors that tended to die shortly after the warranty end. But Antec responded to this screw-up by ditching the SmartPower name and platform entirely. The Earthwatts platform was a strong indicator to the community that Antec was willing to fix their mistakes.
I gave them a second chance with my Earthwatts 500w purchase, and it has yet to die on me (3 years now).
Oklahoma Wolf
PSU Warranty Voider
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CWT. Corsair's using them now. They learned from their bad capacitor mistakes and moved on.
rat
Supreme [H]ardness
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Not even remotely the same situation.
Running at PSU at its "rated" wattage in this case would result in severe inefficiency AND the risk of blowing it because it was beyond capacity.
Far cry from labelling a CPU with a product code (and not hiding its raw clock like *cough* Intel *cough* does) that actually very accurately marked what the CPU performed closest to.
Take a Thunderbird Slot 1 CPU and run it at the exact same clock as a AMD64 CPU. The AMD64 CPU will kick the Thunderbird's ass. Having improvements in performance per clock was a hard thing to get across when everyone still thought clock speed was king.
Would running any of these CPUs at full clock cause them to burn out like the PSUs would? No. Your comparison is invalid.
I wanted to comment on this because most people do not understand power supply specs.
Take a look at the 12V rail spec for example. No, it is NOT rated for 432 combined. I know how you got that, but it is wrong. If you add the 12V1 and 12V2, then multiply by 12 to get the total wattage, you get 432W. (18+18) x 12 = 432. Most people would look at the sticker and say that this power supply can provide 36A on the 12V rail.
The problem is that this is not valid and should not be done. The sticker says the total wattage on the 12V rail is 360. 360 / 12 = 30. 30A is the max on the 12V rail. Period.
Of that 30 amps, it can be split in varying amounts. It does not have to be a 50/50 split between the 12V1 and 12V2. If the first rail has a high load, the output on the second rail will be reduced. The opposite can be true if the second rail has more of the load than the first rail.
The max on either rail may be 18A, but the power supply cannot do 18A on each 12V rail at the same time. The max overall is still 30A combined on the 12V rail.
If you look at any power supply from any brand that splits the 12V rail you see this so called discrepancy. It's not a lie or misleading. People just don't understand what is on the sticker.
edit: Cooler Master example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Image...0-PCAR-A3-US 500W ATX12V v2.3 Power Supply
Earthwatts example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Image...PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
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