The Official Guild Wars 2 thread

[Blkout]

Anybody else find the "Downed state" thing annoying? If I rally, I come back with so little health that one hit from a mob will either down me again or just kill me. Usually I haven't even finished the standing up animation before I'm back down again. Seems like it's quicker to just die, release and run back to the fight.

God yes, they really need to drop the "downed state". Its simply stupid, feels like a cheap add-on and doesn't really fit into the game at all to me. When it happens, I would rather just die and spawn again.

 

[EPOQ]

I can kinda see how that might look like botting. That engineer tactic is what botters have been doing. I think you'll be fine if you're actually playing the game while you're playing the game. Why are you popping turrets down and then AFKing? If you don't like playing the game then what do you care if you get banned or not?

I dont even see why it's that big of a deal anyway. Mob exp is so low who cares if you AFK some turrets. You always run the risk of dying either way. I only consider it botting if you are using an application that has your character running around LOOTING all of the mobs your turrents are killing. The coinage/item drop is the exploit. Killing mobs for a miniscule amount of exp while doing something else in the background is definitely not a big deal.

 

[Daggah]

Hey, I have other things to do. I just thought I could use the bathroom or check on some websites while sitting afk in game doing nothing. It is not the same as bots that continually attack stuff while afk. I plant down turrets all the time, forget I have them attacking somewhere, then get random event xp because they attacked something. If I go AFK in the process, it is a perma ban. That is not fair no matter which way you look at it.

If you have other things to do then go do them. Why are you suprised about being handed a suspension for botting when your character was using the exact same tactics botters use and you're leveling up/killing stuff without actually doing anything yourself. What do you think that's going to look like to other players who stumble across you in-game, hmm? Here's a guy that doesn't move, doesn't respond to any kind of in-game chats or messages, and only periodically drops a turret down to attack stuff. If you saw that kind of behavior in-game from another player, what would you surmise was going on? What would you describe it in a report to ArenaNet?

 

[Blkout]

Because an ally can res you during downed state much faster than when you're fully dead.

Also, it's very useful for fights that are on the borderline... you get a mob down to 10% hp but get downed. You can now easily hop right back up. I've also defeated large groups of mobs with repeated downed state res's. After you hop back up, don't just stand there, dodge away, evade, and heal.

Its still uneccesary and feel cheap. It feels like it belongs in a much less polished lower budget game.

 

[Daggah]

I dont even see why it's that big of a deal anyway. Mob exp is so low who cares if you AFK some turrets. You always run the risk of dying either way. I only consider it botting if you are using an application that has your character running around LOOTING all of the mobs your turrents are killing. The coinage/item drop is the exploit. Killing mobs for a miniscule amount of exp while doing something else in the background is definitely not a big deal.

It's not the fact that he's breaking the game. He's not. It's about the fact that the way he's playing looks EXACTLY like a bot to other players, and other players probably reported him as such.

 

[Daggah]

In Dungeon Defenders my nephew plays a Summoner. He sets his turrets and then reads Facebook or changes to a new song. Every so many minutes he tabs back in to the game to see if a turret went down and repairs it. That's why he plays a Summoner; so he doesn't have to babysit his character.

I don't see what my nephew does in Dungeon Defenders as being any different from what he is doing with his Engineer. And my nephew sure as hell isn't hacking the game.

...and welcome to the ignore list.

 

[Nocens]

I understand why I got reported by players. What I don't understand is why Anet couldn't use some common sense and see that I was not actually spamming attack keys repeatedly. I mean my god, what happens if people do this next week? You will get perma banned for it. There is no 72 hour ban for first offense of botting after this week. They announced it officially. I honestly do not think I can play an Engineer anymore without risk of being falsely perma banned.

 

[cageymaru]

It's not the fact that he's breaking the game. He's not. It's about the fact that the way he's playing looks EXACTLY like a bot to other players, and other players probably reported him as such.

But shouldn't Arenanet investigate the allegations like Blizzard and other companies do instead of just blanket banning people? Not trying to be sensationalist; just thinking outside the box.

 

[Daggah]

If you play the game normally, I don't see the problem. You yourself said there's no real reward for setting turrets down and AFKing.

 

[cageymaru]

...and welcome to the ignore list.

Ok. Cool! I made an ignore list for stating the obvious that flew over your head like a gush of wind.

 

[zoobaby]

So engineer class is fun. Just don't farm events with it. I just got banned for "using a third-party program". I was leveling up in one spot all day just planting turrets down every 20 minutes or so and doing no other actions. I was doing that while working from my computer at home.

Not sure how they came up with "third-party program" out of that. There were definitely a lot of afk macroers in that spot though. Constantly attacking that requires hitting a key over and over for hours. Still, I shouldn't have been grouped with them.

It is not so much of a problem now as they announced they are doing 72 hour bans for this week. The concern though, is that in the future, they will be doing perma bans on the first offense. Just don't plan on ever playing an engineer as it may get your perma banned with no recourse.

I always use engineer this way. To do a stupid kill quest I pop up turrets and do other stuff like browse forums or whatever. I'm not sure what to do now except maybe quit that class because I am afraid of getting perma banned for no reason at all.

I am pretty sure I know where you are talking about. On Sunday there tons of people, mostly engineers sitting in front of one cave mouth farming an event that spawned every 2 minutes. People were leveling from the mid 20's to 40's in hours. It's not intended game play, it's an exploit.

You got caught being AFK when they stepped in finally, by missing their tell, they probably believed you to be a botter. By your own admission, you were essentially exploiting a poor game mechanic.

Glad they stepped in and took actions against those botting and so swiftly. Too many game companies let that go. Sucks if you truly were not botting, but what you described, I could see a GM labeling you as such.

My previous post about Anet being ridiculous (and now idiotic) stands. Being afraid to play the game because you may get banned shouldn't be part of the overall experience.

Yeah they are being heavy handed right now. But they are setting expectations of what they will and will not allow 6 months from now when the release chaos has died down. I'd have rather this expectation known now and not have it change to the stricter enforcement later.

 

[zoobaby]

But shouldn't Arenanet investigate the allegations like Blizzard and other companies do instead of just blanket banning people? Not trying to be sensationalist; just thinking outside the box.

They probably sent a tell or two, got no response since someone was working like they were supposed to be doing (not playing a game while "working from home") and then the GM thought they were a bot. Seems pretty probable to me.

 

[cageymaru]

I understand why I got reported by players. What I don't understand is why Anet couldn't use some common sense and see that I was not actually spamming attack keys repeatedly. I mean my god, what happens if people do this next week? You will get perma banned for it. There is no 72 hour ban for first offense of botting after this week. They announced it officially. I honestly do not think I can play an Engineer anymore without risk of being falsely perma banned.

Seems like Arenanet needs to stop being cheap and write their own version of Warden like WoW has. I know the economy is bad and they already got your $60, $80, or $150 bucks, but at least they could hire someone to investigate you to see if you're playing the game or botting.

I guess they consider leaving turrets down to be an exploit just like vendoring food for gold is an exploit.

 

[zoobaby]

I was leveling up in one spot all day just planting turrets down every 20 minutes or so and doing no other actions.

I understand why I got reported by players. What I don't understand is why Anet couldn't use some common sense and see that I was not actually spamming attack keys repeatedly.

Looks like botting to me...With an engineer no need to spam attack keys, the turrets do all the work...

 

[cageymaru]

They probably sent a tell or two, got no response since someone was working like they were supposed to be doing (not playing a game while "working from home") and then the GM thought they were a bot. Seems pretty probable to me.

I hope so. But the way they are handling these bans seems to be like they don't really have a concept of how their game works or what a bot does. If it were my company I'd err on the side of the player rather than just taking someone's word for it. Worst case scenario I'd flag the account and log the person out of the game. When they log back in I'd tell them what they are doing looks like botting and is subject to a 72 hour ban. Then if they went back to doing the same thing without responding to me then banhammer.

I don't know if that is too much work for the GM's. But taking away a person's account for leaving turrets that auto attack in an area seems a bit extreme.

 

[Blkout]

So engineer class is fun. Just don't farm events with it. I just got banned for "using a third-party program". I was leveling up in one spot all day just planting turrets down every 20 minutes or so and doing no other actions. I was doing that while working from my computer at home.

Not sure how they came up with "third-party program" out of that. There were definitely a lot of afk macroers in that spot though. Constantly attacking that requires hitting a key over and over for hours. Still, I shouldn't have been grouped with them.

It is not so much of a problem now as they announced they are doing 72 hour bans for this week. The concern though, is that in the future, they will be doing perma bans on the first offense. Just don't plan on ever playing an engineer as it may get your perma banned with no recourse.

I always use engineer this way. To do a stupid kill quest I pop up turrets and do other stuff like browse forums or whatever. I'm not sure what to do now except maybe quit that class because I am afraid of getting perma banned for no reason at all.

I'm sorry but I just can't side with your argument. If you or anyone else was simply planting turrets to take advantage of a broken game mechanic only for the purpose of power leveling, its not the way the game was intended to be played and is exploiting the game for your own benefit. I don't understand why anyone "plays" a game like with this mentality. You aren't playing at all, why even bother with the game and move on to something else that you actually enjoy interacting with?

If you feel that's all that the Engineer class offers, scrap it and move on to a class you actually enjoy playing and one you don't have to alt tab out and surf web forums.

 

[Climber]

Wow, you.guys got seriously trolled by cagey. Been a while since someone.trolled that hard.

 

[BiH115]

Wow, you.guys got seriously trolled by cagey. Been a while since someone.trolled that hard.

Lmao. I wonder if Cagey knows he's doing it, if it's intentional, or not.

I trolled pretty hard about 2 weeks back, and I didn't even know I was doing it. Or did I?

 

[Blkout]

But taking away a person's account for leaving turrets that auto attack in an area seems a bit extreme.

That's an exploit though, it would be different if the turrets were used in PvP to guard an area or a flag. This was simply someone trying to power level up unfairly. They weren't actally playing the game and that's not what the turrets were designed for. Anet, nor myself doesn't people that try to play the game with this mentality. There's plenty of legitimate players that want to play the game correctly and not exploit or cheat their way through it.

 

[Blkout]

Wow, you.guys got seriously trolled by cagey. Been a while since someone.trolled that hard.

What?

 

[Daggah]

Looks like botting to me...With an engineer no need to spam attack keys, the turrets do all the work...

Exactly. It may not actually BE botting, but to a random passerby, that's what it's going to look like. If I saw someone behaving that way, and not answering in-game messages (which he wouldn't have done seeing as how, by his own admission, he was alt-tabbed browsing forums and stuff) then I most likely would have reported him. Perception being reality and all that jazz.

 

[Nocens]

There is no right or wrong way of playing a game. As long long as no rules are being broken, then there shouldn't be a problem. I spent most of my time actually questing and doing POIs. I am not hurting anyone by trying to get a couple levels easily so I can do the next zone. As long as I am not using a "third-party program", then I should be able to do it all I want.

For those curious.

 

[Daggah]

There is no right or wrong way of playing a game. As long long as no rules are being broken, then there shouldn't be a problem. I spent most of my time actually questing, and doing POIs. I am not hurting anyone by trying to get a couple levels easily so I can do the next zone.

You can proclaim your innocence all you like, but I'm fairly sure ArenaNet has made their stance on the matter perfectly clear. You can either continue playing the same way that got you a 3 day suspension and get perma-banned, or you can play the game like everyone else and you'll be fine. Your choice.

 

[cageymaru]

I'm sorry but I just can't side with your argument. If you or anyone else was simply planting turrets to take advantage of a broken game mechanic only for the purpose of power leveling, its not the way the game was intended to be played and is exploiting the game for your own benefit. I don't understand why anyone "plays" a game like with this mentality. You aren't playing at all, why even bother with the game and move on to something else that you actually enjoy interacting with?

If you feel that's all that the Engineer class offers, scrap it and move on to a class you actually enjoy playing and one you don't have to alt tab out and surf web forums.

Ever thought that he might just be working from home and might enjoy viewing the fights around him? Drop a few turrets and he's healing others and dpsing. That's contributing to the group dynamic.

Not everyone has the mindset that they have to kill, kill, kill every mob or "Hey let me drop this turret and powerlevel my toon!" All the GM had to do was log him out and whisper him to see if he was botting when he logged back in.

That's my viewpoint of the situation. I can't fathom how many timesin a MMO I've sent my pet into a fight and suddenly got a phone call or had to go check on my mother who is sick or simply go to the bathroom. I don't logout because real life happened. And I never got banned for it either.

Arenanet needs to learn to distinguish between what is a bot and what isn't is all I'm saying.

 

[Blkout]

There is no right or wrong way of playing a game. As long long as no rules are being broken, then there shouldn't be a problem. I spent most of my time actually questing and doing POIs. I am not hurting anyone by trying to get a couple levels easily so I can do the next zone. As long as I am not using a "third-party program", then I should be able to do it all I want.

You're not playing though, you're allowing the game AI to do the work for you. That's a bit different.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

Seems like Arenanet needs to stop being cheap and write their own version of Warden like WoW has. I know the economy is bad and they already got your $60, $80, or $150 bucks, but at least they could hire someone to investigate you to see if you're playing the game or botting.

I guess they consider leaving turrets down to be an exploit just like vendoring food for gold is an exploit.

Anet has already publicly stated they are going to start banning "casual" bots. If I went afk on a hill and had a drinking bird (reference to Homer Simpson's nuclear meltdown!) that tapped my turret key every now and then, this would obviously never be caught by Warden.

 

[zoobaby]

I hope so. But the way they are handling these bans seems to be like they don't really have a concept of how their game works or what a bot does. If it were my company I'd err on the side of the player rather than just taking someone's word for it. Worst case scenario I'd flag the account and log the person out of the game. When they log back in I'd tell them what they are doing looks like botting and is subject to a 72 hour ban. Then if they went back to doing the same thing without responding to me then banhammer.

I don't know if that is too much work for the GM's. But taking away a person's account for leaving turrets that auto attack in an area seems a bit extreme.

I've had GMs in WoW contact me when grinding the same mobs for hours on end to see if I am botting or not.

 

[cageymaru]

Wow, you.guys got seriously trolled by cagey. Been a while since someone.trolled that hard.

Ha ha I'm not trolling them Climber. That's honestly my opinion. I do like to express it as long as I don't repress the opinion of others. I love hearing what the other person has to say also.

To have an opinion and not at least try to comprehend the other person's opinion regardless of whether or not you agree with them is a sign of stupidity.

And I'm not calling you stupid.

 

[Blkout]

Ever thought that he might just be working from home and might enjoy viewing the fights around him? Drop a few turrets and he's healing others and dpsing. That's contributing to the group dynamic.

Not everyone has the mindset that they have to kill, kill, kill every mob or "Hey let me drop this turret and powerlevel my toon!" All the GM had to do was log him out and whisper him to see if he was botting when he logged back in.

That's my viewpoint of the situation. I can't fathom how many timesin a MMO I've sent my pet into a fight and suddenly got a phone call or had to go check on my mother who is sick or simply go to the bathroom. I don't logout because real life happened. And I never got banned for it either.

Arenanet needs to learn to distinguish between what is a bot and what isn't is all I'm saying.

Everyone claims to be the innocent victim when likely 9 out of 10 times its not that way at all. Cheaters and exploiters are never going to tell you the truth, and Anet knows it. Its quite simple really, play the game the way its intended, you'll be just fine. Real life happens to me all the time, I've had to exit the game completely in the middle of an instance or an event because real life called. It happens, I don't cheat and I come back to the game later when I have time. I'm fine with it.

 

[Plague_Injected]

Do these skills not have timers and cooldowns?

 

[Nocens]

The real problem, that a few of you are ignoring, is that I was banned specifically for "using a third-party program". This is absolutely false. I mean sure, I won't go afk anymore while using turrets unless I destroy them first. It was the fact that I was banned for something I didn't even do that irritates the hell out of me.

 

[cageymaru]

I've had GMs in WoW contact me when grinding the same mobs for hours on end to see if I am botting or not.

Yep! And I even had one log me out a couple times and whisper me when I logged back in to see if I was still there. I remember one vividly because my father had Alzheimer's and I was grinding cloth in Felwood.

I went to go check on him and left the demon with the axe attacking things as I was geared out the wazoo and he wasn't going to die. I came back 5 mins later and I was logged out. When I logged back in a GM whispered me and I explained what was happening. They basically told me that someone had reported me for botting as I was killing all the mobs in the area before they could attack.

He asked if I didn't mind letting the other guy kill a few mobs. I laughed and said sure! Good times back then.

 

[Blkout]

The real problem, that a few of you are ignoring, is that I was banned specifically for "using a third-party program". This is absolutely false. I mean sure, I won't go afk anymore while using turrets unless I destroy them first. It was the fact that I was banned for something I didn't even do that irritates the hell out of me.

Well, that's for you to prove to Anet and I wish you luck, but I still don't condone your behavior though and I have no problem Anet getting rid of people that play with that behavior either, so I guess they should have simply stated you were banned for exploiting.

 

[zoobaby]

Yep! And I even had one log me out a couple times and whisper me when I logged back in to see if I was still there. I remember one vividly because my father had Alzheimer's and I was grinding cloth in Felwood.

I went to go check on him and left the demon with the axe attacking things as I was geared out the wazoo and he wasn't going to die. I came back 5 mins later and I was logged out. When I logged back in a GM whispered me and I explained what was happening. They basically told me that someone had reported me for botting as I was killing all the mobs in the area before they could attack.

He asked if I didn't mind letting the other guy kill a few mobs. I laughed and said sure! Good times back then.

Sorry to hear about your father, that can be rough. Dealt with Alzheimer's with my grandmother.

Your story is similar to mine. Though I was at my keyboard the entire time. The GM actually pointed me to a better farming area that fewer people went to at the time. Then he/she followed up to see if my drops were better.

 

[cageymaru]

Everyone claims to be the innocent victim when likely 9 out of 10 times its not that way at all. Cheaters and exploiters are never going to tell you the truth, and Anet knows it. Its quite simple really, play the game the way its intended, you'll be just fine. Real life happens to me all the time, I've had to exit the game completely in the middle of an instance or an event because real life called. It happens, I don't cheat and I come back to the game later when I have time. I'm fine with it.

When I'm grinding mobs with a strong pet such as my Warlock in WoW I have a tendency to let them do most of the work and go make a sandwich real fast. Engineer turrets are their versions of pets. All the GM had to do was log the guy out and ask him when he logged back in if he was really playing. Even if he was botting and lied, at least give your customer the benefit of the doubt. Now if it happens a second time banhammer as you're warned him.

3 day bans send a strong message to those that are cheating, but infuriate the ones that aren't cheating. What I suggested wouldn't cost Arenanet a dime and would generate good will instead of negative headlines.

 

[cageymaru]

Sorry to hear about your father, that can be rough. Dealt with Alzheimer's with my grandmother.

Your story is similar to mine. Though I was at my keyboard the entire time. The GM actually pointed me to a better farming area that fewer people went to at the time. Then he/she followed up to see if my drops were better.

I think if Arenanet gave the benefit of the doubt first and logged them out and questioned them when they came back online then it wouldn't be as vile as banning a guy without at least trying to get his side of the story. Especially if you're banning him for leaving an object in an area.

 

[Daggah]

The real problem, that a few of you are ignoring, is that I was banned specifically for "using a third-party program". This is absolutely false. I mean sure, I won't go afk anymore while using turrets unless I destroy them first. It was the fact that I was banned for something I didn't even do that irritates the hell out of me.

Do you still not see how your behavior looked like a botter's behavior?

 

[cageymaru]

Well, that's for you to prove to Anet and I wish you luck, but I still don't condone your behavior though and I have no problem Anet getting rid of people that play with that behavior either, so I guess they should have simply stated you were banned for exploiting.

I would guess that they are banning guys thinking they are programming their keyboards to play for them. I believe they said that they are encountering crude bots and banning them for 72 hours on Reddit. They really need a software solution to detect hacks instead of this system. Just my opinion.

 

[cageymaru]

Don't ban me from [H] while I'm afk cooking mom lunch. She's 75 and demanded food an hour ago. Little old ladies that can make me feel like a kid > than debating the merits of these early game bans.

 

[Bankie]

Well, that's for you to prove to Anet and I wish you luck, but I still don't condone your behavior though and I have no problem Anet getting rid of people that play with that behavior either, so I guess they should have simply stated you were banned for exploiting.

Does this behavior really affect you or others? I don't see what the problem is unless the person is wiping the entire mob population out so that other users can't do their thing. Reporting people for botting in this game is akin to running to tell the kindergarten teacher that Tommy was chewing with his mouth open. Pointless tattle tailing.

I agree with Cagey on the ban issues.