The Official Guild Wars 2 thread

timtheenchantor said:
He had inside information on this exploit from another friend of his. This friend of his seems to be very "trusted" to provide Kripp the edge he needs to make money (real money from advertising) and garner tons of followers by doing these acts. However, ArenaNet values the economy and an exploit of this magnitude is very threatening. They suspended - not banned - Kripparian for advertising the exploit to his followers. He'll be able to get back in game when the suspension is up. Doesn't seem like a real huge issue here. It's fairly cut and dry.
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All I gotta say, is that I wish I got to use the "exploit". ;)
 
timtheenchantor said:
He had inside information on this exploit from another friend of his. This friend of his seems to be very "trusted" to provide Kripp the edge he needs to make money (real money from advertising) and garner tons of followers by doing these acts. However, ArenaNet values the economy and an exploit of this magnitude is very threatening. They suspended - not banned - Kripparian for advertising the exploit to his followers. He'll be able to get back in game when the suspension is up. Doesn't seem like a real huge issue here. It's fairly cut and dry.
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I sold items to the vendor before I knew it was an exploit. I thought it was part of the game. He was doing the same and his buddy told him, "Hey make this instead as they vendor for more." So the only difference between me and him is that his buddy on the stream told him to make something better to be sold.

Everyone that ever sold a product made from Karma items needs to be banned otherwise it's unfair.
 
cageymaru said:
I sold items to the vendor before I knew it was an exploit. I thought it was part of the game. He was doing the same and his buddy told him, "Hey make this instead as they vendor for more." So the only difference between me and him is that his buddy on the stream told him to make something better to be sold.

Everyone that ever sold a product made from Karma items needs to be banned otherwise it's unfair.
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You can sell things that were bought from the karma vendor. The exception is the one item had a mistakenly high "sell-to" vendor price on it.

Item A costs 20 karma. After buying it, you find it sells to vendor at 1gold.
Item B costs 20 karma. After buying it, you find it sells to vendor at 1 copper.

This is only apparent when you buy the item and sell it, because the game UI does not provide you with the "Sell-to-Vendor" price before purchasing it from the karma vendor. He also would not of known this if his friend didn't already make tons of gold from the mistaken value anyway - thus giving Kripp the information he needed to then "advertise" this previously unknown issue. Instead of going to ArenaNet and just saying, "Hey this could really screw up the economy. It should be fixed before more people know," he intentionally went on stream and gave all those people the means to exploit. Which means if you weren't following Kripp's stream, you would not have an advantage like they do. That would be what is unfair about this.

If you bought items from the karma vendor and didn't make 5-8 gold in 20 minutes, there's nothing to worry about because you didn't use the get rich scheme.

So how is this at all, the same thing as buying a weapon or armor piece and selling it to the vendor? It isn't.
 
timtheenchantor said:
You can sell things that were bought from the karma vendor. The exception is the one item had a mistakenly high "sell-to" vendor price on it.

Item A costs 20 karma. Sells to vendor at 1gold.
Item B costs 20 karma. Sells to vendor at 1 copper.

This is only apparent when you buy the item and sell it, because the game UI does not provide you with the "Sell-to-Vendor" price before purchasing it from the karma vendor. He also would not of known this if his friend didn't already make tons of gold from the mistaken value anyway - thus giving Kripp the information he needed to then "advertise" this previously unknown issue. Instead of going to ArenaNet and just saying, "Hey this could really screw up the economy. It should be fixed before more people know," he intentionally went on stream and gave all those people the means to exploit. Which means if you weren't following Kripp's stream, you would not have an advantage like they do.

So how is this at all, the same thing as buying a weapon or armor piece and selling it to the vendor?
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They went back and blocked all selling of created products from Karma items as they say it was an exploit. So buying a weapon with Karma and selling it to a vendor is considered an exploit and subject to at least a 72 hour ban. Did you think it was an exploit to sell the 1 copper items to the vendor? It was an exploit still as they didn't intend it to happen. If you sold one then you should have read the developer's minds and knew it was an exploit.
 
Would you quit with the lies? Buying something with karma and selling it to a vendor is not subject to a 72 hour ban. :rolleyes:
 
cageymaru said:
They went back and blocked all selling of created products from Karma items as they say it was an exploit. So buying a weapon with Karma and selling it to a vendor is considered an exploit and subject to at least a 72 hour ban. Did you think it was an exploit to sell the 1 copper items to the vendor? It was an exploit still as they didn't intend it to happen. If you sold one then you should have read the developer's minds and knew it was an exploit.
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Where did you get the information that they blocked the selling of created products from karma items? How would they do that? By the way, I need specifics because your conjecture is invalidating your opinion to me.

Your logic doesn't make sense. Your statements are exaggerated, and making up something that never happened. The guy exploited ONE item. That item made him a ton of money in a short time frame. Buying karma flour and making cookies, is not going to get people banned.
 
Let's simplify this to the core, base facts so that we can move on from this pathetic discussion.

* MMO developers have long considered taking advantage of bugs and unintended game mechanics to gain extreme advantage to be "exploiting."
* MMO developers have long resorted to bans and account suspensions as response actions to exploits.
* Buying items for karma and then using them to create chili poppers gave way more money than any other karma-gold conversion. I.e., it's much more lucrative than anything else, and was not intended to be so.
* This guy streaming the exploit did so to several thousand viewers. He did not just take advantage of it himself, he advertised the exploit to many people. He didn't report it to ArenaNet either.
* He received a temporary 3 day suspension.
* Viewers that then used the exploit themselves did not get banned.

Them's the facts, so let's move on.

Edit:

M7vP4.png
 
timtheenchantor said:
Where did you get the information that they blocked the selling of created products from karma items? How would they do that? By the way, I need specifics because your conjecture is invalidating your opinion to me.

Your logic doesn't make sense. Your statements are exaggerated, and making up something that never happened. The guy exploited ONE item. That item made him a ton of money in a short time frame. Buying karma flour and making cookies, is not going to get people banned.
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He was making items like everyone else and selling them to the vendor as he didn't need hundreds of item X. He was quite content cooking and selling the junk he didn't need as was I and every other soul playing the game. Every cooking item sold for different prices to the vendor before anyone knew it was an exploit.

One of his buddies suggested that he make 'Discovery" foods recipes and vendor those. So he switched to making "Discovery" foods and vendoring them. He made a total of 8 gold from the regular stuff and the "Discovery" foods and got banned.

Arenanet went back last night and made the level one items you buy from Karma 63,000 points to purchase to stop the exploit in addition to setting the vendor price of the foods to 0 because vendoring those type items is considered an exploit.

So yes, buying materials and making cookies won't get you banned. Selling those cookies to a vendor before the patch would have.
 
Daggah said:
Let's simplify this to the core, base facts so that we can move on from this pathetic discussion.

* MMO developers have long considered taking advantage of bugs and unintended game mechanics to gain extreme advantage to be "exploiting."
* MMO developers have long resorted to bans and account suspensions as response actions to exploits.
* Buying items for karma and then using them to create chili poppers gave way more money than any other karma-gold conversion. I.e., it's much more lucrative than anything else, and was not intended to be so.
* This guy streaming the exploit did so to several thousand viewers. He did not just take advantage of it himself, he advertised the exploit to many people. He didn't report it to ArenaNet either.
* He received a temporary 3 day suspension.
* Viewers that then used the exploit themselves did not get banned.

Them's the facts, so let's move on.

Edit:

M7vP4.png
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Ahh so what you're saying is that it's ok to ban a guy for playing the game and doing the same thing everyone else was doing if he is streaming the game. But as long as nobody else gets banned it's ok to toss that guy under the proverbial bus.

Got ya! ;)
 
cageymaru said:
Ahh so what you're saying is that it's ok to ban a guy for playing the game and doing the same thing everyone else was doing if he is streaming the game. But as long as nobody else gets banned it's ok to toss that guy under the proverbial bus.

Got ya! ;)
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No, I'm saying that streaming an exploit to thousands of people with the intention to advertise said exploit is, in ANet's opinion, suspension worthy. And hence, the person who did it, was suspended.

I don't watch the guy and I haven't seen the video, but all reports I've heard about this guy is that he even called it an exploit himself in his live stream.
 
cageymaru said:
Ahh so what you're saying is that it's ok to ban a guy for playing the game and doing the same thing everyone else was doing if he is streaming the game. But as long as nobody else gets banned it's ok to toss that guy under the proverbial bus.

Got ya! ;)
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I really didn't get that at all from his post, that it's ok for him to get banned but not others. I don't think I'm reading the same thing.
 
cageymaru, you're trying to blow something out of proportion and wildly extrapolate based on one incident where someone was rightfully suspended.

Obviously not everyone who sold Karma items was suspended. End of story, stop being overly sensational.
 
Daggah said:
No, I'm saying that streaming an exploit to thousands of people with the intention to advertise said exploit is, in ANet's opinion, suspension worthy. And hence, the person who did it, was suspended.

I don't watch the guy and I haven't seen the video, but all reports I've heard about this guy is that he even called it an exploit himself in his live stream.
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Have you made a product in the game from materials you purchased from Karma points? Then sold said product to the vendor? If so you're subject to a ban as it is an exploit in the developer's eyes. Cut and dry. To the point.

I don't see how making stuff in a game and selling it to a vendor is an exploit. Personally I would have thought that selling a Discovery item to a vendor should sell for more as it's random luck to learn the recipe. That's my logic.

I have a question for you then. Did you think it was an exploit when you sold junk you didn't need to a vendor in WoW or any other MMO? What about crafted items that you sold to a vendor? I for one never thought it was wrong to do so and if I had discovered the recipe I would have vendored it too and wouldn't have been acting malicious. Would have just been playing the game as normal then BOOM! Banhammer.

I call BS on this exploit.
 
I will no longer continue to discuss this with you. You've been proven wrong. Get over it.
 
You're trying to act like Kripp was just walking along his merry way and sold something innocently then got suspended.

He knowingly exploited this for an inordinate amount of gold very quickly and then got suspended because he broadcasted this to thousands of people.

Completely different things, and stop acting ignorant about the distinction. It's making you look very foolish.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
cageymaru, you're trying to blow something out of proportion and wildly extrapolate based on one incident where someone was rightfully suspended.

Obviously not everyone who sold Karma items was suspended. End of story, stop being overly sensational.
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I'm not being sensational. I'm thinking about the future of this game. If say I'm making tusk stew and vendor it because I need to raise my cooking from 200 to 300 and get banned I want to know in advance that it's wrong. Because in every other MMO I've played selling junk I made to a vendor was a player's choice. Here it seems I run the risk of losing my account.

Arenanet is the one being sensationalist with this ban. Not me.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
You're trying to act like Kripp was just walking along his merry way and sold something innocently then got suspended.

He knowingly exploited this for an inordinate amount of gold very quickly and then got suspended because he broadcasted this to thousands of people.

Completely different things, and stop acting ignorant about the distinction. It's making you look very foolish.
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Yes, initially he was just making stuff and vendoring it for gold like I and many others have done in other MMO's. For example in WoW I'd buy silk off the AH and make silk shirts. Then either sell the silk shirts for a profit or vendor them for a profit. Just so happened in this case he was streaming it.
 
cageymaru said:
I'm not being sensational. I'm thinking about the future of this game. If say I'm making tusk stew and vendor it because I need to raise my cooking from 200 to 300 and get banned I want to know in advance that it's wrong. Because in every other MMO I've played selling junk I made to a vendor was a player's choice. Here it seems I run the risk of losing my account.

Arenanet is the one being sensationalist with this ban. Not me.
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You're just being unreasonable now. Clearly, you can extrapolate any "exploit" that's within "game mechanics" to some unfounded logic where innocent people are affected.

Obviously what Kripp did to any reasonable observer is considered an exploit and abuse. End of story. Stop pretending he NPC'd a random item and got suspended without the intention of gaming the system for a lot of gold very quickly.
 
BiH115 said:
I really didn't get that at all from his post, that it's ok for him to get banned but not others. I don't think I'm reading the same thing.
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When Daggah said something like:

"Viewers that then used the exploit themselves did not get banned."

That gave me the impression that he didn't mind throwing this guy under a bus as long as everyone else who was already making the same items since Beta weren't banned. If he didn't mean to infer this I apologize to him. :)
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
You're just being unreasonable now. Clearly, you can extrapolate any "exploit" that's within "game mechanics" to some unfounded logic where innocent people are affected.

Obviously what Kripp did to any reasonable observer is considered an exploit and abuse. End of story. Stop pretending he NPC'd a random item and got suspended without the intention of gaming the system for a lot of gold very quickly.
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He made 8 gold. Not 80 gold. Not 800 gold. Not 8 million gold.

8 measly gold. :) Do you have 8 gold in the game saved up? If so do you feel "rich" beyond your wildest dreams?
 
We should probably stop talking about useless shit and just continue talking about the game itself, and not how idiots who exploit systems did or didn't get what was coming to them. This'll drag into next tuesday if it keeps on at this pace.
 
Three day suspension then back to normal. It's not like he had access to half his gaming library removed forever because he said "e-peen" on the forum to one of those games.
 
The exploit itself was capable of making over 100 gold very quickly (others did so). He got suspended for telegraphing this exploit to thousands of people. This is seriously like a political debate. Picking things that suit your own personal agenda without reflection of the overall facts as well as twisting the facts and extrapolating to extremes. This is also why I hate politics.

Obviously this is a useless debate and no one's going change your mind about Kripp's suspension.

Bottom line is, if you feel this was so unnecessary that you now cannot level up your cooking without fear of getting banned, then by all means let this affect your experience in game or even quit the game because of it. The rest of the us really don't see it as an issue and will continue playing the game the way we were: not broadcasting obvious exploits in a stream with thousands of viewers. I think we're pretty safe.
 
BiH115 said:
We should probably stop talking about useless shit and just continue talking about the game itself, and not how idiots who exploit systems did or didn't get what was coming to them. This'll drag into next tuesday if it keeps on at this pace.
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Ha ha I agree. The game was quite entertaining until I found out I might be getting the banhammer in the future while playing the game as intended. Doesn't matter I suppose if I were banned in the future unintentionally as I own lots of MMO's. Just thought Arenanet was being too extreme in their punishment for the "wrong" that was committed.

That's all I'm going to say about the subject for now. Well until the next guy gets banned for killing wolves too fast or getting too many chests from an event. :)
 
cageymaru said:
Ha ha I agree. The game was quite entertaining until I found out I might be getting the banhammer in the future while playing the game as intended. Doesn't matter I suppose if I were banned in the future unintentionally as I own lots of MMO's. Just thought Arenanet was being too extreme in their punishment for the "wrong" that was committed.

That's all I'm going to say about the subject for now. Well until the next guy gets banned for killing wolves too fast or getting too many chests from an event. :)
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:p , Hah.

cageymaru said:
LOL very true! Nice EA reference! LOL!
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Wait, what's this all about now?
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
It's not meant to make you come back and beat a fight that you never could overcome in the first place.
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That's why I don't really get the point of it. If the fight is going to kill me, fine, just do it and get it over with. The way it is now, it feels like the game is just rubbing my face in it.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
The exploit itself was capable of making over 100 gold very quickly (others did so). He got suspended for telegraphing this exploit to thousands of people. This is seriously like a political debate. Picking things that suit your own personal agenda without reflection of the overall facts as well as twisting the facts and extrapolating to extremes. This is also why I hate politics.

Obviously this is a useless debate and no one's going change your mind about Kripp's suspension.

Bottom line is, if you feel this was so unnecessary that you now cannot level up your cooking without fear of getting banned, then by all means let this affect your experience in game or even quit the game because of it. The rest of the us really don't see it as an issue and will continue playing the game the way we were: not broadcasting obvious exploits in a stream with thousands of viewers. I think we're pretty safe.
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Well for me this is like an Ostrich sticking their head in the sand and hoping they don't get eaten. But to each his own. :) That's why everyone has a choice in this world.

I'm through with the subject though as I just see it differently from many of you. I only see Black and White; no rose covered shades here.
 
Koolthulu said:
That's why I don't really get the point of it. If the fight is going to kill me, fine, just do it and get it over with. The way it is now, it feels like the game is just rubbing my face in it.
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Does dying multiple times using the rez system give you multiple repair bills? I'm still low level and not poor so dying multiple times is just a reason to break out FRAPS and have a good laugh. I wonder how it would affect my pocket later on at level 80 if you were to get multiple death penalties.
 
So engineer class is fun. Just don't farm events with it. I just got banned for "using a third-party program". I was leveling up in one spot all day just planting turrets down every 20 minutes or so and doing no other actions. I was doing that while working from my computer at home.

Not sure how they came up with "third-party program" out of that. There were definitely a lot of afk macroers in that spot though. Constantly attacking that requires hitting a key over and over for hours. Still, I shouldn't have been grouped with them.

It is not so much of a problem now as they announced they are doing 72 hour bans for this week. The concern though, is that in the future, they will be doing perma bans on the first offense. Just don't plan on ever playing an engineer as it may get your perma banned with no recourse.

I always use engineer this way. To do a stupid kill quest I pop up turrets and do other stuff like browse forums or whatever. I'm not sure what to do now except maybe quit that class because I am afraid of getting perma banned for no reason at all.
 
Koolthulu said:
That's why I don't really get the point of it. If the fight is going to kill me, fine, just do it and get it over with. The way it is now, it feels like the game is just rubbing my face in it.
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Because an ally can res you during downed state much faster than when you're fully dead.

Also, it's very useful for fights that are on the borderline... you get a mob down to 10% hp but get downed. You can now easily hop right back up. I've also defeated large groups of mobs with repeated downed state res's. After you hop back up, don't just stand there, dodge away, evade, and heal.
 
Nocens said:
So engineer class is fun. Just don't farm events with it. I just got banned for "using a third-party program". I was leveling up in one spot all day just planting turrets down every 20 minutes or so and doing no other actions. I was doing that while working from my computer at home.

Not sure how they came up with "third-party program" out of that. There were definitely a lot of afk macroers in that spot though. Constantly attacking that requires hitting a key over and over for hours. Still, I shouldn't have been grouped with them.

It is not so much of a problem now as they announced they are doing 72 hour bans for this week. The concern though, is that in the future, they will be doing perma bans on the first offense. Just don't plan on ever playing an engineer as it may get your perma banned with no recourse.

I always use engineer this way. To do a stupid kill quest I pop up turrets and do other stuff like browse forums or whatever. I'm not sure what to do now except maybe quit that class because I am afraid of getting perma banned for no reason at all.
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My previous post about Anet being ridiculous (and now idiotic) stands. Being afraid to play the game because you may get banned shouldn't be part of the overall experience.
 
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I can kinda see how that might look like botting. That engineer tactic is what botters have been doing. I think you'll be fine if you're actually playing the game while you're playing the game. Why are you popping turrets down and then AFKing? If you don't like playing the game then what do you care if you get banned or not?
 
Nocens said:
So engineer class is fun. Just don't farm events with it. I just got banned for "using a third-party program". I was leveling up in one spot all day just planting turrets down every 20 minutes or so and doing no other actions. I was doing that while working from my computer at home.

Not sure how they came up with "third-party program" out of that. There were definitely a lot of afk macroers in that spot though. Constantly attacking that requires hitting a key over and over for hours. Still, I shouldn't have been grouped with them.

It is not so much of a problem now as they announced they are doing 72 hour bans for this week. The concern though, is that in the future, they will be doing perma bans on the first offense. Just don't plan on ever playing an engineer as it may get your perma banned with no recourse.

I always use engineer this way. To do a stupid kill quest I pop up turrets and do other stuff like browse forums or whatever. I'm not sure what to do now except maybe quit that class because I am afraid of getting perma banned for no reason at all.
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Well damn man. WTF! Guys do this all the time and I love them dropping turrets beside me while I fight things. I considered it common courtesy and not an exploit. Guess I'll have to tell the Engineers I know not to drop those from now on if they are going to be searching Pandora for a new track while doing group PVE.
 
Hey, I have other things to do. I just thought I could use the bathroom or check on some websites while sitting afk in game doing nothing. It is not the same as bots that continually attack stuff while afk. I plant down turrets all the time, forget I have them attacking somewhere, then get random event xp because they attacked something. If I go AFK in the process, it is a perma ban. That is not fair no matter which way you look at it. They shouldn't have made Engineers so easy to farm one spot.
 
Daggah said:
I can kinda see how that might look like botting. That engineer tactic is what botters have been doing. I think you'll be fine if you're actually playing the game while you're playing the game. Why are you popping turrets down and then AFKing? If you don't like playing the game then what do you care if you get banned or not?
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In Dungeon Defenders my nephew plays a Summoner. He sets his turrets and then reads Facebook or changes to a new song. Every so many minutes he tabs back in to the game to see if a turret went down and repairs it. That's why he plays a Summoner; so he doesn't have to babysit his character.

I don't see what my nephew does in Dungeon Defenders as being any different from what he is doing with his Engineer. And my nephew sure as hell isn't hacking the game.
 
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