The New EVE: Apocrypha

squishy said:
Ice is ice. There are different kinds, but the kind found in 0.0 is identical to the kind found in highsec.
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It is true that some of the hisec ice occurs in 0.0 as well.
However, 0.0 ice belts provide ice types which have a much higher yield than the ice in hisec. For example Krystallos can only be found in 0.0, Dark Glitter only occurs in a few lowsec systems and mostly in 0.0, and so on.
 
Thuleman said:
It is true that some of the hisec ice occurs in 0.0 as well.
However, 0.0 ice belts provide ice types which have a much higher yield than the ice in hisec. For example Krystallos can only be found in 0.0, Dark Glitter only occurs in a few lowsec systems and mostly in 0.0, and so on.
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ahhh yeah, you're right. Forgot about the different density roids/ice.

Since I don't ever mine I guess I shouldn't be answering mining questions :p
 
I'm around a month in-game and trying to plan the year out, any thoughts on this?

1) Train learning skills up to V (except the 2 CHA skills)
2) Train to fly HACs (Eagle)
3) Train to IV or V in Medium (Railgun|Blaster) Specialization (adds 8-10% damage)
4) Train to fit tech II

I'm not decided on blaster or railgun specialization. If most PvP is up close and personal, blasters are good (and hybrid blasters can hit hard outside of nos/neut/smartbomb range.)

That gets me to November and at that point I'll write off my implants and look for a good lowsec/0.0 gang to fly with. By that time I should have plenty of money to buy new ships.

After that, I dunno. Black ops, recon and EW sounds like fun. Flying a BS or larger, not so much.
 
Most people don't recommend your learning skills to 5 -- get them to 4, thats good enough :).
HACS are pretty cool. And training Cruiser 5 (PreReq) opens up a lot of cool stuff.
A lot of PVP, from what I've seen, can be up close, but Snipers are even more useful. Being able to shoot someone from 150km away is a nice thing ;).
Tech 2 is good stuff. Just some tech 2 stuff (large guns) have a LONG train time to them.

I have a recon ship, and its great.
 
1) Training the Rank 3 learning skills up to 5 will take many years to pay off (there's a guy who figured it out, and it was some insanely long time), so I wouldn't bother. I would however train all Rank 1 training skills to 5, including Empathy.

2) Eagle is, for the most part, pretty useless.

3) Gunnery skills are good, but training the specialization skills to 5 isn't worth it.

4) I would definitely suggest to get the "fitting skills" up to 5. Those include (imho):
- Electronics
- Engineering
- Energy Systems Operation
- Energy Management (4 may do at first)
- Shield Operation (or Repair Systems if you are an armor tanker)
- Hull Upgrades
- Mechanic

Not really "fitting" skills but imho necessary to take to 5 early on:
- Targeting
- Signature Analysis
- Navigation
- Warp Drive Operation

Black Ops is pretty skill intensive (BS hull, btw), and not used all that often in the field. For Recon (good choice) you will need Electronics Upgrades 5.

I would look into what T2 modules you will likely be using (other than weapons) and train the skills for those first. Generally T2 mods are less expensive than the best named T1, so you save ISK quickly by training for T2 mods (other than guns) early on.

If your focus will be PvP, then you should train Minmatar. For all the whining the Minnie pilots do on the forums, most sub-BS gangs are Minmatar heavy.
 
You're right about the x3 learning skills. Dropping them to IV instead of V cuts the training down to 9/27.

Generally T2 mods are less expensive than the best named T1
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That doesn't make sense to me but I'll take your word for it. :) Definitely good to know. The T2 fittings are pretty standard as long as I know what I'm going with beforehand (shield vs. armor), plus there's a decent amount of nonspecific training to do.

Minmatar was my first choice initially because of the versatility and emphasis on speed but I shied away after seeing the skill requirements. Shield tank here, armor tank there--it adds up. But now is the right time to choose because I have almost no race specific skills trained to any significant level (IV or V). Plus I have Gallente and Minmatar frigs trained to III which will save a few more hours should I choose differently.

That's my real choice, I guess: Caldari or Minnie or Gallente. Screw the slavers.

[edit] One piece of bad news is a -3.3 standing with Minmatar due to Amarr missioning. I'll have to figure out how to raise standings (I can train a lot of Social skills.)

I picked the Eagle since it can have some unusual loadouts. An Eagle with an 11k optimal might give a Deimos a bad day (unless it's stabilized). Sure, an Eagle is slower than a Deimos, does less DPS, tanks less and has no drone capability. ;) I'm definitely not married to it and while I like some of the other Caldari ships I'm really growing to appreciate the value and versatility of low slots.

So... I have ~20 days to decide while I finish up the rank 1 learning skills. Time to play around with EFT and EVEMon.

One other thing--I'm in a hisec mining/industrial corp. Is really worth anyone's time if I'm in it or not? I'm leaning towards staying because I like the people but I'm really useless at this point considering their focus.
 
The reason best named cost more is people can use them before they have skills fully trained up, and best named can't be manufactured so the supply is simply whether or not people get them from PVE and put them on the market. The t2 stuff however can be manufactured so the supply is good. And the eagle is a great ship, it just depends on how you use it as always. And I would recommend you not fly an eagle in PVP until you've flown and lost cruisers repeatedly. You need to get a feel for when to commit and when to run away. As Thuleman said you definintely want to get your core skills up, this is a case where the certificates actually can be handy. Another way to approach it is train frig V and then train for each of the t2 frigates. Those secondary skills they require also tend to many of the core skills, and it gets you into a bunch of new ships at the frigate level that are relatively cheap and fun to fly (interceptor/bomber/assfrig/cov ops/EAFs). Master the frig size then move up to the cruiser size t2 wise.
 
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Cool, that's clear on the T2 stuff.

The major lack in my planning is EW (and drones). My reasoning for going straight to HAC is the +3 implants I plugged in last night. Anything smaller than a cruiser (other than my Cormorant for salvaging) is going to get me in PvP and podded in a hurry.

Assault ships are a requirement for HAC so that's covered and I'll make a quick detour to Frig V + Interceptors III for speed, just in case I need to take any long trips. After I start flying HACs I'll round off the EW, drones and the rest of the small ships.

I'm not liking the looks of the Minmatar HACs, unfortunately. The Muninn has weird resists (decent shield resists but 3 mid slots.)

Time for a meeting, I'll have to check more later.

[edit] Oh yeah, and I need to build up an 8 rep somewhere so I can get a jump clone. I figure it'll come in handy someday and I might as well stay the course in Amarr.
 
Egg, learning to PVP in HACs is a mistake unless you have really deep pockets tbh. They're 100+ mil to T2 fit and have no insurance. Your best bet if you want to start in non frigates is to fly cruisers. Rupture, Thorax, Vexor, Moa, Maller are all a good place to start. I started in a Vexor and before I sold that char my final record was 73 kills and 12 deaths. Nothing special, but it was a good and cheap way to learn. Cruisers are obviously viable, just pick your targets wisely.

There's a free JC service, look on the forums. If you can't find it let me know and I'll find it for you.

Also, if you're fighting in low-sec, there's really no reason to ever get podded unless you lag out. When you're about to die start spamming the "warp to" button to some celestial object. As soon as you pop you'll warp.

In 0.0 where bubbles exist it's a different story.
 
Better yet, fly battlecruisers. They are equivalent to hacs minus the speed sig radius, as in they can tank as well and do as much damage generally. AND they are fully insurable and cost a ton less. Case in point, this guy flies a hurricane and almost nothing BUT a hurricane. And he solo eats hacs for breakfast lunch and dinner almost on a daily basis:

http://killboard.ds1corp.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39370&scl_id=9

They keep updating our killboard and moving the date up, so he has a ton of solo kills not shown from when he hung around empire more often baiting guys.
 
Marketing/Trading....

Ok....gave it a shot. Actually, gave it bout 2 weeks now. Ive read guide after guide on the subject. Im not understanding this one bit. Buy low, sell high. Thats understood. But I cant seem to "fill" any orders I see I can profit from. I see a buy order for 100,000 units of a product. I HAVE that product and alot of it. But when I try to sell it to the person who is buying it, im not seeing any options to do so.

Can someone please explain to me what it is im supposed to be doing with those buy orders you see at the bottom of the Market screen. How do I interact with those buyers? Im seeing nice profits that can be had everywhere I look, but all Im able to do is put items into the "sell" area. How do I sell MY product to THAT buyer on the bottom of the market screen?

Im confused.
 
How am I supposed to know that you can't insure a HAC? This is one of those points on the EVE learning curve where people start hanging themselves, isn't it? :p

Also, how can his killboard shows 20 losses to capsules?

They're 100+ mil to T2 fit
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I'm mixing posts here but where does the expense come in, and wouldn't that make a BC that much more expensive to fly? Is it the weps and ammo? (I guess I can check this out.) Because the difference between a Moa and Eagle (for example) is 1 med. slot, and the Eagle has a 15m2 larger signature (150 vs 135). BCs are nearly 300. The cost difference between cruiser/HAC is ~20M iirc, plus a one-time buy of $30M for some skillbooks I'm missing.

I think big issue I have is--what am I missing wrt PvP? I've been under the impression that DPS, tank and signature (+ everything related like tracking) are the most important thing to consider. But one of my corp mates took out 5 BS last night and I think he was soloing. Are people simply that bad or using poor fits?
 
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SAW said:
Marketing/Trading....

Ok....gave it a shot. Actually, gave it bout 2 weeks now. Ive read guide after guide on the subject. Im not understanding this one bit. Buy low, sell high. Thats understood. But I cant seem to "fill" any orders I see I can profit from. I see a buy order for 100,000 units of a product. I HAVE that product and alot of it. But when I try to sell it to the person who is buying it, im not seeing any options to do so.

Can someone please explain to me what it is im supposed to be doing with those buy orders you see at the bottom of the Market screen. How do I interact with those buyers? Im seeing nice profits that can be had everywhere I look, but all Im able to do is put items into the "sell" area. How do I sell MY product to THAT buyer on the bottom of the market screen?

Im confused.
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If I understand you, all I do is

1) Find a nearby base with decently high 'buy' amounts for whatever you want to sell - that's the bottom screen in the 'market details'. Ignore the 'sell' orders.
2) Go to that base (I think the item has to be at the base where the buy order is. There may be skills or contracts that change this.
3) Right-click the item and sell it.

Taxes are deducted but I get the value of the highest buy price at the station.

So if station 1 has a sell order for a widget @ 20k and station 2 has a buy order for 25k, go to station 1, buy up the widget, then go to station 2 and sell the widget for 5k profit (minus taxes) per widget.

What makes that potentially sexy is WH junctions that connect to other systems instead of WH space.
 
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^ Ninja edited that all to hell - it's 'buy' orders that you want to look at, not 'sell' orders.
 
eggrock said:
Also, how can his killboard shows 20 losses to capsules?

I'm mixing posts here but where does the expense come in, and wouldn't that make a BC that much more expensive to fly? Is it the weps and ammo? (I guess I can check this out.) Because the difference between a Moa and Eagle (for example) is 1 med. slot, and the Eagle has a 15m2 larger signature (150 vs 135). BCs are nearly 300. The cost difference between cruiser/HAC is ~20M iirc, plus a one-time buy of $30M for some skillbooks I'm missing.

I think big issue I have is--what am I missing wrt PvP? I've been under the impression that DPS, tank and signature (+ everything related like tracking) are the most important thing to consider. But one of my corp mates took out 5 BS last night and I think he was soloing. Are people simply that bad or using poor fits?
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Capsules show up on the KM when the pilot dies. So X, Y and Z are shooting B. Y dies while shooting B. Y will show up as a pod on the killmail.

Basically it's the last ship someone was in when that pilot died.

BC's are in the 30 mil range to buy and I forget what insurance pays back. But in a nutshell, an insured T2 fit BC will pay you back in full for the ship and small portion of the modules when it's lost. Basically you won't lose too much isk. When you start rigging them it becomes a different story. Don't rig your ships for now.

HACs on the other hand are pretty much a complete loss. So you're pretty much out 130-250 mil when you die. HACs are better in certain situations, but I fly BC's quite a bit as well. Heck my Caldari pilot has more kills in a Drake than anything else.

http://notr.darkfrontier.com/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=259&view=ships_weapons

When you're starting out though you're better off in cruisers or BC's. Wait until you get your experience and skills up (and wallet) before moving on to HACs.

Your buddy that killed 5 BS probably killed PVE fit mission runners, which doesn't really count as "soloing" since they can barely fight back. Not that it isn't fun though, I do it all the time :p
 
What is the counter measure for the Web Stasis thingy? Getting this placed on me doing some missions and I'd like to know what skill/item I need to counter it.
 
MetalX said:
What is the counter measure for the Web Stasis thingy? Getting this placed on me doing some missions and I'd like to know what skill/item I need to counter it.
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Kill the ship that has you webbed.
 
Oh I thought there was something I could equip that would assist. Sometimes I get webbed and the npcs fly too close for my 200mm turrets to hit and I'm just useless.
 
MetalX said:
What is the counter measure for the Web Stasis thingy? Getting this placed on me doing some missions and I'd like to know what skill/item I need to counter it.
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Something ive noticed about this game is that just about everything there is that you could use on someone else can also be countered. Web stasis included.

I know I have seen something out there but I do not recall what it was called. I do recall it saying something along the lines of....only works if the webifier being used is less powerfull than the counter you are using.

Sounds like this item should be able to be found in the Electronic Warfare (EW) section of the Market. Look there and see what you can find...
 
Low level missions sometimes have stasis towers that can web you from very long distances. If you see one in a mission kill it immediately or send the drones in.

I know I have seen something out there but I do not recall what it was called. I do recall it saying something along the lines of....only works if the webifier being used is less powerfull than the counter you are using.
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Are thinking of warp core stabilizers countering disruptors and scramblers?
 
eggrock said:
Low level missions sometimes have stasis towers that can web you from very long distances. If you see one in a mission kill it immediately or send the drones in.



Are thinking of warp core stabilizers countering disruptors and scramblers?
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ECM's and stuff along those lines is what appears I was thinking of...in short anyways.

Could any of these counter a webifier? http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:Electronic_Warfare

I didnt see anything that "specifically" said it nulls the effects of a Webifier, but at the very least, I would say some of these items in the link can/maybe prolong something or someone from getting a lock on ya, which in turn, could give you a few extra seconds to warp out of a possible bad situation.
 
ECM would be a counter since a target that cant lock also wont be able to web. However ECM don't work on mission rats. The only counter to webbing frigates in missions is to destroy the source.
 
There's nothing to specifically counter a webber, other than enough inertia to get out of web range.

You could jam them (ECM) but that's a counter to pretty much everything :)

And I'm really referring to PVP, in PVE your best bet is to kill the webbing frigates with drones.

edit: and.. beaten
 
Back to the Market question I had :)

Thanks for the help guys, but something still isnt clicking..I still do not quite understand these "Buy" orders.

I know the how to use the "Sell" area, If I want/need something for my ship, I just go in and grab what I need off the Sell orders. If I want to Sell something I have, I know to right click that item in my cargo hold or in items list.

What I do NOT understand though, are these Buy orders.

Ive read that the orders highlighted in green means that person will travel to pick up the items, so that much I know.

What I do not understand though is if I have the item and the quantity being ordered, how do I sell it to THAT person with THAT buy order?

Example:
I see a Buy Order. Player wants 150,000 units of "X" and is willing to pay 8.5 ISK per unit for a total of $1,275,000.

I have a blueprint for said item. I have all the required materials to make the item and quantity.

Item and quantity made.

I click on that persons Buy Order but have no options appear telling me to sell to THAT person.

Im at the station where the Buy Order was placed, but I still see no options for me to sell/fill that players order????? What am I doing wrong here? I have the Item. I have the exact quantity thats wanted. Wheres the "Sell to that dude right there" button?
 
You can't sell to a specific person. When you sell things it goes to whomever has the highest buy order for the area and quantity.

So when you sell your items it goes to the highest buy order in green at the bottom, as long as you have the minimum that person will buy. So if he has a minimum of 2 and you only have 1, it will go to the next highest buyer that has a minimum of 1.

If you're not into trading, buy orders are handy to save a little isk. If you know what you're going to need in the future, then place buy orders to pick them up a little cheaper. Bascially you'd become the buyer in the situation above. You'll have to be the highest in order to get the item.

Make sense?
 
You also pay the isk up front, so it takes it out of your wallet. Then if someone fills the order it just drops into your items.
 
My PC game of choice for the past 2 months.. I have two accounts now as well.. My main is working for caldari navy and training pvp skills, while my other character is training specifically in mining. My main is doing lvl 3 missions with battlecruisers, and I have battleships trained for when I decide to pick one of those up. My secondary character is just training skills atm. mining barge lvl 5 has a couple weeks left before its done, then I'll be two boxing both characters while I mission with the main and mine with the alt.

Im still getting my ass kicked in lvl 3 missions, but now that my drone skills are lvl 5 and Im starting to specialize and use tech 2 light medium drones, things are getting easier. I'm gallente working for Caldari cause my corp is building Caldari faction.. Dunno why since by the time Caldari faction is high enough to be useful, we could easily be moving out to low sec space.. Oh well, missioning and system scanning for sights is all I really enjoy doing atm... Mining just sucks with the small, medium mining barges.. by the time you have the skills for the largest mining barge, you are very close to using exhumers anyways... :confused:
 
What are your opinions on CCP's proposed agility changes?

The thread is interesting but I don't know enough to comment, except that I favor versatility, ship roles and some sort of balance between SP, smarts/experience and ship traits and loadouts.
 
Just to save people time, most of that thread (up to page 11, possibly longer) is arguing about some cloak+MWD+warp trick that allows people to fly lowsec without much fear of getting scrammed.
 
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eggrock said:
Just to save people time, most of that thread (up to page 11, possibly longer) is arguing about some cloak+MWD+warp trick that allows people to fly lowsec without much fear of getting scrammed.
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Just based on your comment here...I "think" I can assume safely what those arguments were about without having read thru it...perhaps Im wrong :p:p

Anyways....Something I have always liked about this game is its very diverse compliment of ship fittings. IMO, I believe that if someone figured out a way to travel thru low sec without much fear of getting ganked, then kudos to that person. They used their brain and used modules that the game offers, fit it to their ship and stealthily warps thru low sec. Thats what this game is all about. It has the power and structure within it, that, using your noodle can and IS beneficial. Just slapping some mods onto a ship wont always be the best thing to do.

The problem here is, THAT person made the mistake and let someone else know about it, which in turn, leaks out onto forums. Next thing ya know, everyone is fitting the same thing. Now, all of a sudden......"Its unbalanced....whine whine cry cry".

The way I see it is........Lets say I take my Cruiser and fit it with some mods which allow it to literally do circles around some other guys Battleship or some other larger ship. I have it modded up to the neck with all kinds of stuff. Rigs, implants etc etc. The other guy cant so much as put a scratch on me cause by the time his shot gets to where I "was", Im not there anymore. In the end, my cheapo Cruiser takes him out and he is left to pod home.

Does this mean the game is unbalanced or needs some sort of tweaking because, I, a lowbie newb just took out a guy who has been playing for a year? Or did I win the fight because I was smart enough to pre-think what might win me the battle and fit the ship accordingly?

IMO, this game was designed for "thinkers" and the ones who dont like that are the ones who should go back to games where they hold your hand.

But, like I said.....I could be wayyy off in what I just said depending on what is said in that link.....which at this time, I have no time to read.....
 
Server goes down for the update right when I get my Drake..... Oh yea, BEST GAME EVER!!
 
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