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The END for AGP?

S

solideliquid

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
449
Hello all!

I am going to build a new computer (since I am giving this one to a family member) and I would like your advice.

I want to put an AMD 4000+ inside but the only way I can do that is if I use an AGP-based mobo (dont ask, strange circumstance).
The other option is a P4 3.6 2MBcache (660) on a PCI-E based mobo. I am going to get the same video card whichever system i build (X850XT PE).

So here is the question: In two years from now are ATi and Nvidia still going to make their top video cards in both AGP and PCI-E format or is this pretty much the end for AGP and if I want to upgrade my card in a year or so I should get a PCI-E mobo so I won't get stuck with an AGP based system?

THANKS in advance.

-solid
 
If you think you'll upgrade just the video card in the next year, then agp would work imo. For 2 years? Doubtful.

Then again, if you're spending that much on a video card now, wouldn't you have enough money to do a total revamp in a year, and then worry about pci-e?
 
um... there are boards that have PCIe for AMD... plenty of them...

what is this "strange circumstance"

most likely, in 2 years, AGP will be gone... i suspect in a year itll still be around, but in 2... i dunno, i dont think so...
 
A year from now, I would guess that all of the top of the line cards will be PCI-Express only. AGP will only get the low and mid cards.

If you're buying both a Motherboard and Video card right now, there is no reason to not go PCI-Express. Obviously if you already have an AGP motherboard, it's probably more cost effective to stick with AGP a bit longer, as performance differences today are nill.
 
ATI Has said that they have no plans for an AGP R520.

Are you sure you can ONLY get an AMD 64 AGP Mobo? Couldnt you get a socket 939 CPU with an AGP Mobo, get a cheaper AGP Card, then get a good PCI-E card later?

IMO AGP Will be phazed out. If you are building a New system, PCI-E is the onyl way to go


If you are going to be gaming alot, then AMD is a smarter choice.

Also, If you are going to be building in thenear future. would suggest something like an X800XL or 6600GT for now, then get an R520 when they come out.
 
solideliquid said:
So here is the question: In two years from now are ATi and Nvidia still going to make their top video cards in both AGP and PCI-E format or is this pretty much the end for AGP and if I want to upgrade my card in a year or so I should get a PCI-E mobo so I won't get stuck with an AGP based system?
Click to expand...
Nobody here can dictate what ATI and Nvidia has in the future for their product. AGP is still the majority for many PCs around the world. Amazingly PCI videocards are still selling to this day so the market is there, but nobody knows when PCI-E X16 is going to be fully utilized. We are not even fully utilizing AGP 8X at the moment.
 
Mr Mean said:
Nobody here can dictate what ATI and Nvidia has in the future for their product. AGP is still the majority for many PCs around the world. Amazingly PCI videocards are still selling to this day so the market is there, but nobody knows when PCI-E X16 is going to be fully utilized. We are not even fully utilizing AGP 8X at the moment.
Click to expand...
the "pci is still around, so AGP will be too!" argument is absolutly worthless

first off, PCI is a unversal bus, it supports more than just graphics cards, AGP is NOT gonna be around as long as PCI has, there just wont be any demand for it... PCIe is the next gen universal bus, and believe it or not, it does more than just run graphics cards. this is why its gonna get such a quick inception by the PC market, things like HDTV encoders/decoders need the bandwidth of PCIe, and since its just a PITA to put AGP and PCIe on teh same board(and AGP isnt needed anymore like it was in teh PCI days), AGP is gonna go away much, much faster than PCI did, in fact, i dotn think PCI is gonna go away anytime soon even, as there is still demand for it... just like there is still (a small) demand for ISA from users who need to use legacy cards.
 
This makes no sense - AMD means you have to get an AGP card but you can go PCIe if you go Intel but you're still getting the same video card either way?

I think, before there can be any rational discussion about what you should do, this 'strange circumstance' needs more light shed on it.
---

My personal opinion is that there's going to be a supply of AGP cards as long as there's a demand and market for them. nVidia's designed their bridge chip already - as long as it remains profitable to produce them, you'll probably see cards with them being put on. I don't think you'll have a problem getting a new graphics card in 2yr - you might be able to get the top-of-the-line card by then but by then, the rest of the system will be far enough behind the curve that doing so would be silly.
 
Okay, but that does not mean that the R520 will be available in AGP at all. And, to follow rumors, it won't be available what-so-ever as an AGP card. Besides, at this point in the with PCIe on the uprise, what is the point of AGP? It may cost less for the system, card, but it's no where near future proof at this point.
 
grrrrrr how gay!! I am still pissed about them inventing pci-express heheheh.....I just switched my 6800ultra to agp 4x to get rid of artifacts and benched at 4x and my 3dmark05 went up 50 points lmao......

anyways...I would recommend getting the athlon 4000+ in agp form because...

there is no performance gain in pci express......an athlon 3200+ would spank an intel pentium 4 extreme edition...dont even mention the 4000+ lmao!!! and agp will be awhile before anything happens to it so don't worry...you can upgrade to pci express in a year or so...then send me ur old system..hehe j/k :)
 
If you are upgrading. get a socket 939 CPU with an AGP mobo, but, if there is a way to get a PCI-E mobo, there is absolutely no reason not to go PCI-e (unless you already have an AGP Card you dont want to get rid of) but if you are upgrading everything, PCI-E is the way to go.

Like I said, ATI Announced the R520 wont be available in AGP form, I have a crazy theory that this is because they have finally utilized PCI-E to a slight extent, and an AGP version of the card wont be able to handle it (since PCI-E has twice the speed capabilities of AGP 8x)
 
Hate_Bot said:
If you are upgrading. get a socket 939 CPU with an AGP mobo, but, if there is a way to get a PCI-E mobo, there is absolutely no reason not to go PCI-e (unless you already have an AGP Card you dont want to get rid of) but if you are upgrading everything, PCI-E is the way to go.

Like I said, ATI Announced the R520 wont be available in AGP form, I have a crazy theory that this is because they have finally utilized PCI-E to a slight extent, and an AGP version of the card wont be able to handle it (since PCI-E has twice the speed capabilities of AGP 8x)
Click to expand...

I really think ATI is (at least in the short term) going to regret that decision. I have nothing against PCI-e, but you should never eliminate part of a market-- especially when NV could swoop in and have THEIR top end cards AGP and PCI using their bridge chip.

For example... I am sure that the X700 is an excellent card, but I bought the 6600gt because I have an AGP mainboard, and that was the only reasonable choice in my price range.

I agree it won't matter in a few years... hell, even 18 mos from now... AGP will go the way of PCI (non-e) video cards.

Anyways... just my 2c

-Skystalker
 
Hate_Bot said:
Like I said, ATI Announced the R520 wont be available in AGP form, I have a crazy theory that this is because they have finally utilized PCI-E to a slight extent, and an AGP version of the card wont be able to handle it (since PCI-E has twice the speed capabilities of AGP 8x)
Click to expand...
not even close. we arent even using AGP 4x bandwidth yet.

the move to PCIe is not for graphics cards, even tho nvidia and ATI are hyping it that way. PCIe is to get rid of the ancient PCI bus.
 
lithium726 said:
not even close. we arent even using AGP 4x bandwidth yet.

the move to PCIe is not for graphics cards, even tho nvidia and ATI are hyping it that way. PCIe is to get rid of the ancient PCI bus.
Click to expand...

You could be slightly off-base. I've heard a rumor that (assuming the next-gen card is called this) an X900XL will be trice as fast as a current X850XT PE. The next cards (are rumored to) have 32 pipelines and 12 Vertex shaders. This would tax the bandwidth a lot and could possibly over-saturate it.
 
Project_2501 said:
You could be slightly off-base. I've heard a rumor that (assuming the next-gen card is called this) an X900XL will be trice as fast as a current X850XT PE. The next cards (are rumored to) have 32 pipelines and 12 Vertex shaders. This would tax the bandwidth a lot and could possibly over-saturate it.
Click to expand...
correction, trice as fast as the origional R300 cards ie, the 9700 Pro.

we arent saturating the 4x bus with todays games and cards, there is no way in hell we are gonna saturate teh 8x with tomarrows.

they are not rumored to have 32 pipines. they are rumored to have 24, with approx. 1.5x the efficiency of the R420's current pipines, giving performance of 32 pipes.

i also heard something about 16 vertex shaders, but that mightve been G70...
 
You know what, this is all speculation, and "almost" is only good with horse-shoes and hand grenades, so I'm not too worried about it right now, other than I'm going to get one.

Oh, and I used to have a 9700 Pro, before I got my 6800.
 
I hope to get as many years out of a X800XL AIW (1.6ns memory) as my 9700 Pro AIW gave me. I can't justify buying a motherboard AND cpu AND new videocard at the moment. I think this is a problem with a lot of people though. This is the only reason I am sticking with AGP.
 
We aren't even fully utilizing AGP 8x yet....PCI-E is a marketing scam at the moment.
 
MrFace said:
We aren't even fully utilizing AGP 8x yet....PCI-E is a marketing scam at the moment.
Click to expand...
god damnit, how many times do i have to say this in the SAME THREAD?


pci-e is NOT JUST FOR GRAPHICS CARDS!
 
The argument that PCI is still around therefore AGP whill be around is valid wether or not PCI is a universal bus. No company can expect the customer to have a complete system overhaul in just one product cycle. The performance of AGP and PCI-E is almost exactly the same and we've yet to saturate the 8X AGP spec. nVidia and ATI are not going to completely drop a inerface because everyone jumped on the "Omg 16x is bigger than 8x" bandwagon. And yes I understand PCI-E is not just for video cards but good luck fitting anything else into an AGP slot ;)
 
lithium726 said:
god damnit, how many times do i have to say this in the SAME THREAD? pci-e is NOT JUST FOR GRAPHICS CARDS!
Click to expand...


Hehe, don't worry about it. We understand. It's just not meant for everyone (knowledge).
 
DarthWombaT said:
The argument that PCI is still around therefore AGP whill be around is valid wether or not PCI is a universal bus. No company can expect the customer to have a complete system overhaul in just one product cycle. The performance of AGP and PCI-E is almost exactly the same and we've yet to saturate the 8X AGP spec. nVidia and ATI are not going to completely drop a inerface because everyone jumped on the "Omg 16x is bigger than 8x" bandwagon. And yes I understand PCI-E is not just for video cards but good luck fitting anything else into an AGP slot ;)
Click to expand...
i do understand that AGP will be around for a year, and possibly two, but will not last nearly as long as PCI has. in two years, i expect AGP will be pretty much out of the picture.

and thats exactly what im sayin, nothing else will fit in there so there is no reason to keep it around like we have with PCI, we got sound cards, raid cards, and all this other stuff that goes in PCI, but nothing for AGP, which is why i think comparing it to PCI is just silly.
 
2 years is cutting it short. If PCI-E actually offered an advantage over AGP I would agree with you, but at the current moment there is none. There might be no new AGP motherboards but to stop making video cards for them would be giving free business to whoever does.
 
but PCI-E does have an advantage over AGP, you see

its cheaper to produce. it takes less traces on the motherboard to support PCIe than it does AGP and PCI, which turns into lower cost to mobo manufactures which turns into lower prices for consumers. i know PCIe boards are rather expensive right now, but its just the cost of owning brand new tech, in teh end, pci express will save us all money.
 
The newest parts always carry a high tag, it's because of consumer demand. Imagine if NO ONE wanted an X850XT PT (they'd also all be insane, hehe) the prices would be much, much lower, and the desired card would skyrocket.
 
lithium726 said:
but PCI-E does have an advantage over AGP, you see

its cheaper to produce. it takes less traces on the motherboard to support PCIe than it does AGP and PCI, which turns into lower cost to mobo manufactures which turns into lower prices for consumers. i know PCIe boards are rather expensive right now, but its just the cost of owning brand new tech, in teh end, pci express will save us all money.
Click to expand...

Bingo!! We have a winner. This is the reason why PCI-E is being pushed so hard over AGP. Not performance or bandwidth.
 
Also consider that PCIe video cards only hold roughly 15% of the graphics card market right now. With numbers like that, any company interested in making money would continue to sell new tech in AGP.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22073

But then again, companies do force upgrades all the time. Think about CPU manufacturers and socket types.
 
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