The death of the Arena Shooter.

htpc_user said:
I would prefer a multiplayer game to be "slow". It should be more methodical than just running around. I haven't found the perfect online multiplayer yet. This may sound stupid, but killing someone should be as much about luck as it is skill. I've shot a paintball gun before and have fairly accurate aim. But I'm not a professional player. However if you put me in a building with a professional player starting off on different floors, I should have just as good a chance of shooting him as he has of shooting me assuming I'm not running through the halls like some butt-monkey. There should be a little bit of randomness to it.

Me and 5 of my friends played Deathmatch on SWAT 3 one time. It was great. We were inside a hospital. It was funny when you came around a corner and saw one of the others trying to sneak down the hallway all careful only to get popped in the back by me. Everything online wants to go at 100mph.

I will forgive Team Fortress 2 though (greatest game ever).
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UT and Quake were methodical and you had to think fast, but you also had to do this while moving fast. Twitch style games like that aren't for everyone. It takes a different type of skill than playing in semi-tactical style shooters such as Call of Duty or Battlefield.
 
when i want serious twitch gameplay, i fire up CoD 4 and play Killhouse FFA

pretty fun
 
Fail said:
when i want serious twitch gameplay, i fire up CoD 4 and play Killhouse FFA

pretty fun
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True. At least the game does offer a couple of maps that allow for twitch style gameplay. Most notably, the Shipment and Killhouse levels in FFA mode.
 
Ahh I used to love UT2K4, all I played was Onslaught and had great fun, big maps loaded with people made it tons of fun, and who can forget the Leviathan. I doubt I'd see a game like that come back, I tried to get into UT3 but it just didn't cut it out for me.
 
I guess another game that's kind of twitch and I kinda enjoy is Gungame on Source / 1.6 ... it's not quite the same but it's faster paced than normal Cstrike.
 
Maybe it has to do with graphics upgrades, they are able to make things look more "realistic" so they can stray from the rockets and alien guns that make odd noises and pretty colors?

I have no idea really. I was never a huge fan of arena shooters, too chaotic. I prefer a little more tactically oriented games. Not saying that all games out there nowadays are all taht tactical, but more so than "team rockets deathmatch"
 
TheCowOfNow said:
Maybe it has to do with graphics upgrades, they are able to make things look more "realistic" so they can stray from the rockets and alien guns that make odd noises and pretty colors?

I have no idea really. I was never a huge fan of arena shooters, too chaotic. I prefer a little more tactically oriented games. Not saying that all games out there nowadays are all taht tactical, but more so than "team rockets deathmatch"
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I flourish in chaotic games. I'm OK at tactical shooters, but I'm MUCH better at twitch games.
 
I never got into arena games. Maybe coz I'm too lazy to put in the time required to become good at them. I like the COD4 style where a little bit of intelligence can win out over a freakish ability to aim and fire really well. Games like that do require skill, they require the ability to read to the flow of a battle to be in the right place at the right time, opposed to the hard earned run-jump-shoot skill aquired from 1000+ hours of gaming.

But yeah, I never liked arena games, just could never get into them. Would just get bored after a few hours.
 
the death of arena shooters began with Counterstrike's popularity and was official when UT3 fell flat on its face

the popularity of consoles has also contributed to the decline.

the newer generation of gamers are much more accustomed to playing tactical shooter FPSes. the closest thing to an arena shooter they might have played is the Halo series or TF2, but they are slow as molasses compared to the speed of UT/Quake.
 
You guys just need to watch some arena match videos. For me, HLDM was the most ridiculous arena game, but you hardly ever saw the really good people in pubs. Watching a good match was awesome, the people were hardly ever on the ground.
 
I remember playing HLDM at work on our lan, after hours. That was insane, I never played it regularly outside of work and it showed when we played. Always been a quake addict personally. Damn I miss those days..lol.

UT3 wasn't that bad, but it wasn't the same. Maybe my expectations were tipped from unreal 2004 being such an awesome all around game, that any successor was bound to fail?
 
Dan_D said:
I flourish in chaotic games. I'm OK at tactical shooters, but I'm MUCH better at twitch games.
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I have to agree with this.. I tried BF2 and more and it just never did it for me... I dunno, I seemed to die a lot and just get kind of frustrated... nothing like the days of quake2 dm and ctf where you're flying down hallways like you're on roller blades with a shotgun trying to pull of kills with a flick shot. damn that was fun. I was hoping some l4d2 mods would come out with ctf or dm mode where you can play humans or zombies.. maybe even some arena goodness..
 
revenant said:
I have to agree with this.. I tried BF2 and more and it just never did it for me... I dunno, I seemed to die a lot and just get kind of frustrated... nothing like the days of quake2 dm and ctf where you're flying down hallways like you're on roller blades with a shotgun trying to pull of kills with a flick shot. damn that was fun. I was hoping some l4d2 mods would come out with ctf or dm mode where you can play humans or zombies.. maybe even some arena goodness..
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I think there are two kinds of multiplayer FPS players. You've got the twitch players and the tactical shooter players. I am not the latter despite my affinity for firearms. :confused: Still given the lack of new twitch shooters I've had to get much better at the tactical shooters. Still nothing beats being able to load up my favorite twitch style shooters and going to town every now and again.

The tactical shooters can be fun too, you just have to "unlearn what you have learned."
 
i've actually had quite the opposite experience...

the guys that have been the best at twitch, skill base shooters such as UT, Q3, RA3, etc, have usually been some of the most dominant guys in CS, Halo, COD, etc...

the skill based games seem to better prepare the players, so even though the skill bar is much, much lower in the tactical games, the seasoned FPS vets usually still have a good enough advantage to be the best in the server
 
Dan_D said:
I think there are two kinds of multiplayer FPS players. You've got the twitch players and the tactical shooter players. I am not the latter despite my affinity for firearms. :confused: Still given the lack of new twitch shooters I've had to get much better at the tactical shooters. Still nothing beats being able to load up my favorite twitch style shooters and going to town every now and again.

The tactical shooters can be fun too, you just have to "unlearn what you have learned."
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i couldn't have said it better

that's exactly my problem

i play CS source a lot though, i used to play TF2 which isn't really twitch based

CoD 4 is very twitch based in certain maps, though

i wish i'd get some Quake goodness going again
 
Fail said:
i couldn't have said it better

that's exactly my problem

i play CS source a lot though, i used to play TF2 which isn't really twitch based
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TF2 can be kind of twitch as scout. Nothing's more fun than running circles around a heavy while blasting him with your shotgun; it also has some good arena maps (the orange series comes to mind).

A lot of hardcore players play CS and CS:S like a twitch game with their 1000+ hours of awp practice.

My favorite tactical shooter from back in the day was Delta Fore 2. It was the only game I knew of in the early 2000's that had bullets subjected to wind and gravity. It made good sniping very hard and rewarding at the same time.

One thing seems constant in FPS games I've played. There are almost always way too many people sniping and half of them suck at it.
 
DryFire said:
One thing seems constant in FPS games I've played. There are almost always way too many people sniping and half of them suck at it.
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Yeah it sucks for "true in game snipers" who can fulfill the role properly.
 
I can't stand snipers in games, but especially in CS:S. One sniper is more than fine, but usually there's 2-3 in standard sized maps and they just keep me cornered from afar, and if I even step one foot in their view I'm dead. And if I try to sneak up and focus on one I usually get nailed by someone else in the process. So irritating!
 
Dan_D said:
I think there are two kinds of multiplayer FPS players. You've got the twitch players and the tactical shooter players. I am not the latter despite my affinity for firearms. :confused: Still given the lack of new twitch shooters I've had to get much better at the tactical shooters. Still nothing beats being able to load up my favorite twitch style shooters and going to town every now and again.

The tactical shooters can be fun too, you just have to "unlearn what you have learned."
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I was a Quake 1, UT99, UT2k4 and Quake 3 Arena whore for a long time, some of my favorite games ever. I played UT99 and Q1 competetively, made some decent money from it. Even so, I can jump right into Bad Company 2 or CS without any trouble.

I would kill for a new UT that improved on what UT2k4 did so well.
 
htpc_user said:
I would prefer a multiplayer game to be "slow". It should be more methodical than just running around.
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Not to sound rude, but TDM in UT2k4 is probably the most challenging gametype around. Maybe in pubs it's nothing but running around, but at the competitive level there really is nothing like it. Making sure your teammates have the weapons they need, knowing the timing on shields and weapons, keeping track of where your enemies are, running the right path through map, etc. So many factors to consider, yet most people just see "running around and shooting."

aKrippler said:
All jokes aside you guys dont consider Halo an arena shooter?
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Haha, no. Halo is nothing more than Counter Strike in the future with a sword.
 
Ultimately it all comes down to laziness of developers anymore. Due to their greed for the all mighty fake dollar they keep on shoveling out rehashed shit, only each time they're more degraded and yet people still pay more for less. Add in multiplatform release and they double their profits while releasing the exact same shitty game on each platform, and ultimately every game suffers in doing so. There's no more passion left in the industry, it seems just money to be made.

UT2004 was my multiplayer game of choice for a couple years steadily. I hardly even play multiplater games anymore because I can't seem to find anything that will bring back that exhilarating feeling I used to get when I played.

UT3 was an absolute slap in the face to PC UT players. So many things about it just made you say WTF!, and anyone could see it for what it was; a very hastily done PS3 game effortlessly ported over to PC. I played a couple matches when the demo came out and that was the extent of it. I lost all hope in it and never so much as thought about playing it again. Not even this titan pack patch I've heard about re-sparked any interest; to little, to late, don't care.

It seems Epic is to busy with their new moneymaker franchise Gears of Shit, to be bothered with producing a quality pc arena shooter that is a worthy successor to UT99/04.
 
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Try playing CoD 4 with the Overkill perk and have a sniper rifle as one gun and the mp5 as your other

it's VERY fun on the right maps.

FFA of course.

I like Overgrown but i'm not good on that map, it's pretty hard to find people on the map unless they are up and running around like morons, but it really is heartbeat inducing.

Creek is a much better map too.

I don't know why I'm rambling on about CoD 4, sorry guys.

But honestly, I'd love another Quake like multiplayer that is FFA only and only FFA

Team based gameplay has it's place, but it feels very old, FFA encourages you to get good or you'll just get owned all day long, cause you can't ride someone else's coattails to victory.
 
darksonic said:
Haha, no. Halo is nothing more than Counter Strike in the future with a sword.
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Halo is like counter strike? I understand that some people like CS type games and some people like arena type games...does nobody want to claim halo? As a person who enjoys CS type games, I always thought of halo as an arena type game.

Anyways, I've never liked arena type games. I don't even like deathmatch in CS:S which is, to some extent, the arena version of CS:S. I don't even know if I can explain why. The only thing that I can think of is that constant action actually luls me into a state of mindlessness. Even if it requires awareness, my senses just kinda take over at some point, and I end up getting a headache. The break in the action in CS style games kinda highlights the action for me. There's alot more to it, but that's the best I can do.

I hope you guys do get something new though, since there's an obvious void in the genre atm, and I know you guys love it.

And as for snipers in CS, all i can say is it gets better when you get better, even if the level of awpers (snipers) are also getting better. When I haven't played CS:S in awhile and I go back to it, awpers piss me off. When your skill starts going up with the ak/m4, and you learn how to move in a way that makes their shot alot harder to hit, its not so bad.
 
One of the nice things about arena shooters is that there's none of this ranking BS...you start off with the same weapons everyone else has.
 
Daggah said:
One of the nice things about arena shooters is that there's none of this ranking BS...you start off with the same weapons everyone else has.
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That's true. I do like that about the UT and Quake games. The ranking in FPS games is turning into the grind fest of an MMO. :mad:
 
That was one of the reasons to keep playing CoD 4 though

it had challenges and made it FUN, at least untill you Prestiged for the 10th time on consoles
 
on another note:

i miss tribes. i miss fps games that were just fucking crazy. no realism, strange physics, pure fun.
 
Fail said:
That was one of the reasons to keep playing CoD 4 though

it had challenges and made it FUN, at least untill you Prestiged for the 10th time on consoles
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But at the same time, COD4 actually gave you halfway decent weapons to start out with.
 
That's true, the starting weapons were also usually the best ones to have, the only reason to use the others were to complete the challenges for faster leveling AND, they honestly made you a better player by teaching you how to use inferior weapons and make up for that with skill.
 
I dislike Quake, etc because of the instant-kills basically. I've never liked rockets in any game I have played (I guess except TF2... <3 TF2). Same with all the new Modern Warfare type games, I hate super accurate machine guns that can snipe from across the map.

/me misses MOHAA and CoD1 :(
 
Rofl-Mic-Lofl said:
I hate super accurate machine guns that can snipe from across the map.
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Umm, some of their real life counterparts are indeed quite accurate. Given the size of the maps the distance you can hit people with say an M4 carbine are reasonable. The maps are really too small for scoped weapons to be necessary.
 
Dan_D said:
Umm, some of their real life counterparts are indeed quite accurate. Given the size of the maps the distance you can hit people with say an M4 carbine are reasonable. The maps are really too small for scoped weapons to be necessary.
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LOL, when I have to do M-16 qualification, the best I personally can hope for is pointing the weapon in the general direction of the target and hope that enough bullets hit for me to pass. Fortunately, the USAF's standards aren't particularly high.
 
So arena shooters are majority twitch based while "modern" shooters are more tactical? And besides UT and Quake, there's no other examples of that "genre"?

You sure you just don't want another Quake and Unreal? Because I don't remember a genre only containing two games...

COD is pretty twitch based, why is that not on the list? Hal can be in small maps with rockets or no shields, why is that not on the list? I just don't understand OPs qualifications. Nostalgia flying high in here, I think.
 
Dreaz said:
So arena shooters are majority twitch based while "modern" shooters are more tactical? And besides UT and Quake, there's no other examples of that "genre"?

You sure you just don't want another Quake and Unreal? Because I don't remember a genre only containing two games...

COD is pretty twitch based, why is that not on the list? Hal can be in small maps with rockets or no shields, why is that not on the list? I just don't understand OPs qualifications. Nostalgia flying high in here, I think.
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Technically the "tactical" modern combat/WWII series only consists of BF, and the COD franchises now as MOH isn't particularly lively. There was Tribes which was rather arena-ish also.

COD doesn't count because look, you spawn with all your weapons, you regen your health, theres no powerups, you have to reload, you can only hold 1 primary and 1 secondary, etc etc etc.

But sure, I would love to see another Quake or UT that doesn't lick my balls, mostly.
 
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