The best gaming mouse EVER is back

Commander Shepard

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Ahh... was hoping to see a return of the original Razer Diamondback, not that disappointing version that was released a couple years ago. My Blue Plasma D'back is still going strong. Best mouse ever, IMO.
 

Boulder

n00b
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What made it so special? Genuinely curious, I only got into PC gaming a few years ago.
 

PeaKr

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What made it so special? Genuinely curious, I only got into PC gaming a few years ago.
I'd have to say its the combination of weight, size, DPI level and solid construction. I've had mice that went up to 3000 dpi, way to jittery for me. I have an original MX518 but my favorite is my MX500, there is a difference in how they move on the screen, I've tested this many times. Both are still rockin after 15+ years. You really have to use it for awhile to understand. I used to play online FPS games a lot. I've tried many different mice over the years, none compared. At one point a new MX500 was going for 300$ after they quit making them. Hopefully the new ones are as good.
 

RPGWiZaRD

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What made it so special? Genuinely curious, I only got into PC gaming a few years ago.
For me it is purely the shape. For me it's perfection, I've tried many popular mice, Zowie EC-1A and EC-2A is perhaps closest competitor I've found that also is a bit of a favorite among CS pros but it wasn't as good as MX518 either, mostly it doesn't have nearly as good grip due the carvings on the MX518, it's literally the most easy mouse to lift due the carvings on both left and right side, with very minimal effort it can be lifted. I can literally use this mouse for the whole day without feeling like I've used my hand at all. Other mice it hasn't been the case so far and I've tried many of the popular ones from Zowie, Steelseries, Logitech, Roccat, Razer, Mionix, Corsair etc. I always went back to the MX due the shape as everything else I found always something which felt off in comparison.
 

SvenBent

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What made it so special? Genuinely curious, I only got into PC gaming a few years ago.
at is time it was the absolut best mouse around the block.
it has an unbeatable linary accelerations curve

However this is not an "real" mx518. This is a new mouse made to look like it and then branded as one. but the guts are still different afaik
 

Boulder

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At one point a new MX500 was going for 300$ after they quit making them
That seems ridiculous, but then again I've never used one.

For me it is purely the shape. For me it's perfection, I've tried many popular mice, Zowie EC-1A and EC-2A is perhaps closest competitor I've found that also is a bit of a favorite among CS pros but it wasn't as good as MX518 either, mostly it doesn't have nearly as good grip due the carvings on the MX518, it's literally the most easy mouse to lift due the carvings on both left and right side, with very minimal effort it can be lifted. I can literally use this mouse for the whole day without feeling like I've used my hand at all.
I have noticed my hand feeling sore a lot more recently with my current mouse. I need to find one that fits my hand better
 

Spartacus09

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at is time it was the absolut best mouse around the block.
it has an unbeatable linary accelerations curve

However this is not an "real" mx518. This is a new mouse made to look like it and then branded as one. but the guts are still different afaik
Got any info on this? or just a 'feeling'?
 

cyclone3d

[H]F Junkie
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The new mouse has the newest, best sensor available.

The old one had the best sensor at the time. And it was at a point where a lot of new mice were coming out with higher dpi sensors, but most of them had acceleration (which is bad).
I guess a lot of people find it too difficult to turn off mouse acceleration in the Windows Control Panel?
 

Dan_D

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I have owned just about every MX5xx series mode ever made. I liked them allot at the time. Eventually, they hurt my hands / wrist. The G602 has been my favorite mouse from Logitech. That said, I like the shape of the MX1000 the best. Unfortunately, the mouse itself was junk.
 

haste.

[H]ard|Gawd
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What made it so special? Genuinely curious, I only got into PC gaming a few years ago.
Remember that mouse preference often depends on your grip. There's nothing truly special about this mouse, it was just well made, with good specs, at a fair price. MX5xx is probably best for people that prefer a claw grip instead of resting their palm that some of the more current designs have accommodated. You can do any grip with any mouse, but finding one that suits your style will help if you are playing multiplayer fps.
 

Boulder

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Remember that mouse preference often depends on your grip. There's nothing truly special about this mouse, it was just well made, with good specs, at a fair price. MX5xx is probably best for people that prefer a claw grip instead of resting their palm that some of the more current designs have accommodated. You can do any grip with any mouse, but finding one that suits your style will help if you are playing multiplayer fps.
Right, I'm not going to run out and buy it just because random people on the internet say its the best. I'm looking for a new mouse and was curious why this one was so good.
 

Dan_D

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Right, I'm not going to run out and buy it just because random people on the internet say its the best. I'm looking for a new mouse and was curious why this one was so good.
At the time it came out, the thing was somewhat revolutionary. No mouse had that kind of shape or a sensor that good. Logitech was also ahead of other companies on its software. MS has it built into the OS, but it didn't offer the same level of control. Ergonomically, I much preferred the MX5xx series to anything else that was out at the time. Today, I think there are better designs ergonomically speaking. So I have no interest in revisiting mice I stopped using years ago for various reasons.
 

PeaKr

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I miss the old Fry's electronics, they used to have a whole row dedicated to mice and keyboards you could put your hands on, even the high end stuff. Now the store looks like its been ransacked by looters.
 

sharknice

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I guess a lot of people find it too difficult to turn off mouse acceleration in the Windows Control Panel?
No, it's not the same, it's a flaw in the sensor. When you move faster it doesn't track as well causing an acceleration effect similar to what that setting does. But you can't turn it off because it's caused by the sensor being inaccurate. And they can't really adjust for it because it can vary based on the surface and DPI.
 

DoubleTap

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I guess a lot of people find it too difficult to turn off mouse acceleration in the Windows Control Panel?
No, it's not the same, it's a flaw in the sensor. When you move faster it doesn't track as well causing an acceleration effect similar to what that setting does. But you can't turn it off because it's caused by the sensor being inaccurate. And they can't really adjust for it because it can vary based on the surface and DPI.
I didn't realize that some sensors - and pretty much all laser sensors - have acceleration essentially built in to the sensor (intentional or not, it's not something you can't turn off)

My 17yr old CS/Overwatch player is an expert on all things mice and I figured that since I had a quality mouse that I liked (Roccat Tyon), I was good.

But, I've been unhappy with my accuracy the last few years and just chalked it up to getting older.

Nope, it's stealthy mouse acceleration that I didn't know I had going on,

Now I'm dismayed to find that just about all the mice with "perfect" sensors have only 2 side buttons and the mice with all the cool extra buttons have crappy sensors.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills for not realizing this...
 

sharknice

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I didn't realize that some sensors - and pretty much all laser sensors - have acceleration essentially built in to the sensor (intentional or not, it's not something you can't turn off)

My 17yr old CS/Overwatch player is an expert on all things mice and I figured that since I had a quality mouse that I liked (Roccat Tyon), I was good.

But, I've been unhappy with my accuracy the last few years and just chalked it up to getting older.

Nope, it's stealthy mouse acceleration that I didn't know I had going on,

Now I'm dismayed to find that just about all the mice with "perfect" sensors have only 2 side buttons and the mice with all the cool extra buttons have crappy sensors.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills for not realizing this...
It's not surprising. Most people don't know much about the hardware and a lot of false information gets spread around.
Zowie and other brands couldn't do 1000hz without inaccuracies but a lot of people recommended them. Then a lot of people were spreading that no mice could do 1000hz without problems which was 100% wrong.
A lot of people still think all wireless mice have lag because they used some cheap wireless mouse that had lag. Logitech even attached a fake wire to a wireless mouse and had professional gamers test them side by side and they said the one without the fake wire had more lag.
 

Commander Shepard

Supreme [H]ardness
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I agree. Glad to see other who realize this. Do you know were I could get the original blue version from?
I got really lucky with my find of a new Blue Plasma D'back. It was on a shelf at an outlet store a few years ago. Still sealed in its unopened box. I couldn't believe it and bought it as soon as I saw it. Paid $75. Only other place I've seen original D'backs is eBay, every once in a while.

IMG_1409.JPG
 

maro

Gawd
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Aug 27, 2006
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556
What made it so special?...
There are already some good answers to this but no one has provided a context.

Rewind back to the mid/late 90's, when the mouse had a ball and 2 rollers on 2 axis inside. These worked well enough but the mechanical rollers would frequently get dirty and cause the pointer to move erratically, usually when trying to avoid a facefull of flak cannon in Unreal Tournament or Quake 2 - you had to clean them all the time.

Along came optical sensors which eliminated that problem and they worked well enough - except for gaming because many of those early sensors would geek out while trying to snap headshot or other fast twitchy moves, causing the pointer to move erratically - I think by now it's happening in UT04, CSS or something.

Here's where the the MX510 comes in, and saved us all from dirty mouseballs and lost and confused sensors by providing us finally with a responsive and accurate tracking sensor under non-office-use conditions (twitchy FPS games!!). Later came the MX518 which many consider the perfected version with a better sensor. Personally I recall preferring the 510 sensor over the 518, but I couldn't tell you why...
As well as the excellent sensor, the 510 and 518 had that awesome shape that was perfect for medium/large hands, and 'palm grip' style players... Oh - and extra buttons that other mice normally weren't providing at that time (clickable mousewheel, 2 thumb buttons!!).

So this is how it was in the mid 2000's. Nowadays it is pretty standard to have tons of buttons and superfast accurate sensors with minimal smoothing or assistance or acceleration. There are many more styles and options to suit anyone's taste and a handful of very good sensors on the market that are lightyears ahead of that old MX510.

But the love still exists... and that is why people will tell you the MX510/518 were the best because at a time when mice had balls, they were.
Hope this helps answer your question.
 

RPGWiZaRD

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My 0.20 cents about acceleration, yes MX518 is known to have some degree of acceleration which obviously the new sensor doesn't have. But acceleration isn't to blame for poor aiming skills, it's about muscle memory, you can become used to it. There is even quite a few Quake pros who uses acceleration and trust me those players have godlike aim, just watch Rocket Jump Ninja's reviews on YouTube for a good example :)

I belong to those who still uses acceleration as a former UT player so I can do both slow and very quick movements (+ it's more convenient to use while in Windows to get larger mouse movement with less hand movement needed as I prefer a bit lower sens but dislike large arm movements again and want to move mostly the wrist). IMO it's just about what you've gotten used to. If I turn it off my aim will be off and would take a while to adjust.
 
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Dodge245

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Oct 8, 2018
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A lot of people still think all wireless mice have lag because they used some cheap wireless mouse that had lag. Logitech even attached a fake wire to a wireless mouse and had professional gamers test them side by side and they said the one without the fake wire had more lag.
They had lag, I had the best Logitech Wireless mouse and the moment I switched back to wired, I can tell you the wireless was laggy. (MX1000)

Anyway, on topic, the best mouse I have ever used is the original G9 Laser Logitech mouse, Still with me to this day (its a lot dustier in the photo, than in person...) :

IMG_20190225_084717.jpg

EDIT, I bought this brand new in 2007.
 

sharknice

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They had lag, I had the best Logitech Wireless mouse and the moment I switched back to wired, I can tell you the wireless was laggy. (MX1000)

Anyway, on topic, the best mouse I have ever used is the original G9 Laser Logitech mouse, Still with me to this day (its a lot dustier in the photo, than in person...) :

View attachment 144162

EDIT, I bought this brand new in 2007.
This is exactly what I'm saying. The mx series isn't even for gaming.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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I had a couple of these back in the day. Meh. Been using a FinalMouse for a while, really love it.
 

TechLarry

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30,288
What made it so special? Genuinely curious, I only got into PC gaming a few years ago.
It....Just....Works!

It's comfy, simple, awesome.

Best GD mouse ever made.

If it could have one thing, I'd love to see Logitech's Auto-Fast Scroll from the MX Master 2S incorporated. I'd pay them $100 for it all day long if they did that.

Logitech's Auto Fast Scroll is one of those things you never knew you needed until you try it.

Several of Logitech's mice have the free-wheeling fast scroll these days, but ONLY the MX Master 2S has the AUTO Fast Scroll.
 

TechLarry

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The new mouse has the newest, best sensor available.

The old one had the best sensor at the time. And it was at a point where a lot of new mice were coming out with higher dpi sensors, but most of them had acceleration (which is bad).
To be honest, I hope that doesn't ruin it. I'd rather they left it alone.
 

maro

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The mx series isn't even for gaming.
Back in 2002 or so the MX series was their top of the line series, before they started calling all 'gamer' stuff the G series. Later they MX remained top of the line with pricey and sometimes excessive features, while the G series became Logitech's gamer offering (think of MX of this era as the fat heavy luxury sedan vs the sports car G series).

Nvidia and AMD are not the only ones who change their marketing nomenclature every few years.
 
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sharknice

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Back in 2002 or so the MX series was their top of the line series, before they started calling all 'gamer' stuff the G series. Later they MX remained top of the line with pricey and sometimes excessive features, while the G series became Logitech's gamer offering (think of MX of this era as the fat heavy luxury sedan vs the sports car G series).

Nvidia and AMD are not the only ones who change their marketing nomenclature every few years.
I used the MX1000 because they gave it to me as a replacement for one of their discontinued wireless gaming mice. I don't remember the model number, but it didn't lag like MX1000 they gave me.

And I used it at LANs and people couldn't understand how I was destroying them so hard in instagib with a wireless mouse. They actually thought I was hacking until I let them try it. "It's so smooth. Wow there isn't lag."

Edit: MX700 was the wireless I had before, which was essentially a wireless MX500.
 
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chockomonkey

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My 0.20 cents about acceleration, yes MX518 is known to have some degree of acceleration which obviously the new sensor doesn't have. But acceleration isn't to blame for poor aiming skills, it's about muscle memory, you can become used to it. There is even quite a few Quake pros who uses acceleration and trust me those players have godlike aim, just watch Rocket Jump Ninja's reviews on YouTube for a good example :)

I belong to those who still uses acceleration as a former UT player so I can do both slow and very quick movements (+ it's more convenient to use while in Windows to get larger mouse movement with less hand movement needed as I prefer a bit lower sens but dislike large arm movements again and want to move mostly the wrist). IMO it's just about what you've gotten used to. If I turn it off my aim will be off and would take a while to adjust.
I always figured some people could get used to playing fps with acceleration, but I never wanted to invest the extra time. I want the aim to move exactly the same regardless of how fast I move the mouse. To this day I still go into my mouse settings and disable acceleration before playing an fps.

On-topic, I'm sad that I just bought one of Logitechs new gaming mice, the g502. Ugly AF but works. Damnit! Should waited another month.
 

Draax

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6F83F10C-1D2F-48DC-8F1A-0B5F5F466062.jpeg

It finally arrived. I have never had a “gaming” mouse before. Can’t wait to put the kids to bed to try it out.
 

maro

Gawd
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g502 might be more butt-ugly but the shell is similar in size and shape. If it's uncomfortable for you the 518 might be as well. Sometimes it is not a smaller mouse or diff shape that fixes this, but just raising or lowering your chair at desk. Otherwise maybe a smaller mouse like the G Pro would be more comfortable.

I would like to point out the g502 (if not the Hero version) will have the pwm3366 - tried and true and arguably the best optical sensor ever made. So if you're happy with it I'd say you have no need to get the mx518 other than aesthetics.
This 518 has the hero sensor which is relatively new and detailed info will become more available over time as people pick it apart and study it. I daresay at 2100 DPI or lower the Hero will perform just as well as the best of them.
IMO you'd have to play twitchy FPS at a very high level (and at sensitivity settings much higher than most competitive players use) before you'd notice any problem with most of today's modern high performance optical sensors.

I'll be waiting for it to go on sale in the $30-$40 range before I grab one to play with.. but I will definately be getting one of these!
 
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