The 285k is embarrassing

Nirad9er said:
It's crazy that such poor sales and Intel's fixes hardly doing anything that Intel has not lowered the price. If they lowered 285k pricing they could atleast move some units and learn from their mistake for next gen.
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Indeed. The Ultras aren't bad in an absolute sense, just that they failed expectations and are wildly overpriced. The 285K might make sense in quite a few situations at the right price, which would be maybe half what Intel are asking today.
 
Nirad9er said:
It's crazy that such poor sales and Intel's fixes hardly doing anything that Intel has not lowered the price. If they lowered 285k pricing they could atleast move some units and learn from their mistake for next gen.
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Intel is selling ARL just fine. In your closest office you can be sure new computers will use these processors. Laptops will use these processors.
And you can be sure what kind of performance does not matter in this case 😃
 
chameleoneel said:
I haven't checked every board. But, from what I have seen (as of the last couple days): the BIOS with the 0X114 microcode and ME version 19.0.0.1854V2.2, are either not available at all, or only in BETA release. (my board has a beta release since December 26th, and doesn't improve FF14 benchmark performance, at all. which is one of Arrowlake's worst cases.)

I don't expect magic. But, I do expect the final BIOS to have some improvement. Because the BETA BIOS was way ahead of the release schedule which Hallock talked about. What I mean is, I am sure there are changes which Intel is still working on with vendors, for the intended release.

Robert Hallock didn't say anything about an MEI driver being required, for the 0X114 microcode to be effective. And the MEI driver hasn't been updated since July. I think that maybe you are thinking about the ME version above. Which is part of the CPU's microcode or firmware. Not an OS driver.
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Yeah, I have been following a bit on the overclock.net thread about it, the bios is available for oc boards at least but the ME firmware driver wasn't out yet but I haven't checked it in a few days since I don't have one of them I've just seen them talk about it in passing.
 
XoR_ said:
Intel is selling ARL just fine. In your closest office you can be sure new computers will use these processors. Laptops will use these processors.
And you can be sure what kind of performance does not matter in this case 😃
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Yep. If you ignore the gaming results it did pretty well, especially in multithread. In multithread 285k beats a 14900k, trades blows with a 9950X, and you need a Ryzen 9 to keep up with a 265k outside of gaming. Also lots of single thread wins. Then laptop, especially non-gaming laptop, is a whole different world from gaming desktop and the improved power efficiency will be greatly appreciated. Of course there it'll really be replacing Meteor Lake, so the gain isn't as much as when compared to Raptor Lake. This forum often seems to have the gaming blinders on. The truth is that desktop in general is a distant 3rd to server and laptop, and high performance gaming is a niche within desktop. Intel's client CPU sales aren't doomed because they're slower than X3D. They're just doomed in the high end gaming market. Give Intel and AMD a choice between owning laptop or owning desktop, and either one of them would pick laptop.

CAD4466HK said:
Intel might of sorta of kinda just a little bit redeemed themselves, somewhat.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwQALgE54B4
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Lots of bad launches in general lately. Intel blew the Arrow Lake launch and was still out of stock on 285ks for months (how? I mean I'd understand if it was faster), AMD is straight up delaying RX 9000, X870/X870e was about the most "meh" chipset launch ever, looks like RTX 50 is going to be paper, Ryzen 9000 wasn't good, etc. Really the only good consumer product launches from Intel, AMD and NV were an Intel GPU and the AMD 9000X3D models.

I'll be happy enough with Arrow Lake if I can get it to match Intel's slide deck without having to put in hours of tuning. I do enough of that at work, got bored with it. Flip a few settings? Fine. Should be doable eventually. I'm not one of those reviewers that refuse to change any defaults other than turning XMP or EXPO on because that's what they think most people do. I am not most people, nor do I claim to be normal. Slightly slower than a 14900k is good enough for my 4k single player gaming. My "fast paced" games are first person single player RPGs. I didn't really buy Arrow Lake, I bought Z890 for the PCI-e lanes and Arrow Lake came along for the ride. It's the first desktop platform that didn't piss me off since M.2 NVME took over. Last time around I was deciding between X299 and ThreadRipper because all the desktop platforms were unacceptable. Ended up with X299 because it cost half as much as TR 3000. Both were more CPU than I needed and weren't far apart in gaming.
 
zandor said:
Yep. If you ignore the gaming results it did pretty well, especially in multithread. In multithread 285k beats a 14900k, trades blows with a 9950X, and you need a Ryzen 9 to keep up with a 265k outside of gaming. Also lots of single thread wins. Then laptop, especially non-gaming laptop, is a whole different world from gaming desktop and the improved power efficiency will be greatly appreciated. Of course there it'll really be replacing Meteor Lake, so the gain isn't as much as when compared to Raptor Lake. This forum often seems to have the gaming blinders on. The truth is that desktop in general is a distant 3rd to server and laptop, and high performance gaming is a niche within desktop. Intel's client CPU sales aren't doomed because they're slower than X3D. They're just doomed in the high end gaming market. Give Intel and AMD a choice between owning laptop or owning desktop, and either one of them would pick laptop.


Lots of bad launches in general lately. Intel blew the Arrow Lake launch and was still out of stock on 285ks for months (how? I mean I'd understand if it was faster), AMD is straight up delaying RX 9000, X870/X870e was about the most "meh" chipset launch ever, looks like RTX 50 is going to be paper, Ryzen 9000 wasn't good, etc. Really the only good consumer product launches from Intel, AMD and NV were an Intel GPU and the AMD 9000X3D models.

I'll be happy enough with Arrow Lake if I can get it to match Intel's slide deck without having to put in hours of tuning. I do enough of that at work, got bored with it. Flip a few settings? Fine. Should be doable eventually. I'm not one of those reviewers that refuse to change any defaults other than turning XMP or EXPO on because that's what they think most people do. I am not most people, nor do I claim to be normal. Slightly slower than a 14900k is good enough for my 4k single player gaming. My "fast paced" games are first person single player RPGs. I didn't really buy Arrow Lake, I bought Z890 for the PCI-e lanes and Arrow Lake came along for the ride. It's the first desktop platform that didn't piss me off since M.2 NVME took over. Last time around I was deciding between X299 and ThreadRipper because all the desktop platforms were unacceptable. Ended up with X299 because it cost half as much as TR 3000. Both were more CPU than I needed and weren't far apart in gaming.
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Zen 5 launch was weird/bad, as well. It was often a little slower than Zen 4. Especially in gaming.

AMD did the whole misdirection of oh that's strange that you (reviewers) didn't get the same numbers we did in our internal testing lab. And then there were a few different excuses as to why.

However, after some BIOS updates, chipset driver updates, Software updates (Photoshop), and a couple of Windows updates: Zen 5 at least isn't slower than Zen 4 anymore. And its usually at least slightly measurably better. And sometimes solidly better. But wow, what a way to finally get there. Oh yeah, and they also lowered the prices >_>
 
Finny76 said:
QUESTION:
So is the 285K good at ANYTHING?
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As far as I can tell, if you're not jerking off to 720p low settings techtuber gaming benchmarks it looks just like every other CPU out there. Couple % difference here and there at the normal 1440p/4k settings people buying $600 CPUs and $1000 GPUs will run.
 
Finny76 said:
QUESTION:
So is the 285K good at ANYTHING?
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Yes. Just not gaming. Arrow Lake is a laptop design, and the 285k is a desktop version of a laptop chip like just about everything Intel puts out for desktop these days. AMD bases their desktop chips on server parts. 1-2 CCDs same as they use in EPYC, plus an IO die that got recycled for Zen 5 -- it's the same as the Zen 4 IO die. At any rate, Arrow Lake usually has better single thread and multithread performance in productivity apps than Raptor Lake, and the 285k trades blows with the 9950X. No one makes desktop CPUs anymore. Sure they call it a desktop CPU, but it's a repurposed design that was meant for something else. Desktop is a distant 3rd to server and laptop, and high end gaming is a niche within desktop.

That said the best thing about Arrow Lake is the Z890 chipset IMHO. Better features and I/O than any other desktop chipset. Cheap boards give you 6 4x PCI-e devices and USB4/Thunderbolt 4 is built into the proc. Most lower end ATX sized boards have 4 M.2 and 2 4x PCI-e 4.0 slots, plus the 16x slot for the vid card -- and they don't share lanes.
 
Well I'm about to find out how good these are. I had $350 sitting in my paypal and I couldn't resist the Newegg bundle, 265K+Asus Z890-A Strix with a free 1TB Crucial P3 Plus and 3 free games for $511. Should be here on friday for me to test out.
 
LigTasm said:
Well I'm about to find out how good these are. I had $350 sitting in my paypal and I couldn't resist the Newegg bundle, 265K+Asus Z890-A Strix with a free 1TB Crucial P3 Plus and 3 free games for $511. Should be here on friday for me to test out.
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WOW... That is a GOOD DEAL!!

Link?
 
chameleoneel said:
Some of MSI's motherboards are coming with Like A Dragaon Pirate Yakuza In Hawaii

https://us.msi.com/Promotion/like-a-dragon-pirate-yakuza
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Ah, so Intel is doing their own promo, giving Star Wars: Outlaws with various motherboards. So if you get an MSI mobo, you'd get both the Intel promo and MSI's promo for Like a Dragon: Pirate Yakuza. Or if you buy Asus, you can get Monster Hunter: Wilds, from their own promo.

So currently, with a CPU and mobo purchase from Intel, you can get 4 games. AC: Shadows + Civ6 for CPU. And for the mobo its Intel's promo SW: Outlaws + whatever mobo brand promo game.
 
chameleoneel said:
Ah, so Intel is doing their own promo, giving Star Wars: Outlaws with various motherboards. So if you get an MSI mobo, you'd get both the Intel promo and MSI's promo for Like a Dragon: Pirate Yakuza. Or if you buy Asus, you can get Monster Hunter: Wilds, from their own promo.

So currently, with a CPU and mobo purchase from Intel, you can get 4 games. AC: Shadows + Civ6 for CPU. And for the mobo its Intel's promo SW: Outlaws + whatever mobo brand promo game.
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Any way to pass these on? I got Assassin Creed Shadows, Civ VII and Star Wars with mine and I don't want any of those games.
 
LigTasm said:
Any way to pass these on? I got Assassin Creed Shadows, Civ VII and Star Wars with mine and I don't want any of those games.
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usually these types of freebies give steam keys which you can just give to somebody
 
LigTasm said:
Any way to pass these on? I got Assassin Creed Shadows, Civ VII and Star Wars with mine and I don't want any of those games.
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For Intel promos, an account is made on intel's promo site. The code is entered, and then an .exe verifies valid hardware.

So, you can have people make an account, share the login details. You log in, enter the code, and verify with your hardware.

I've done it 4 times for other people.
 
chameleoneel said:
For Intel promos, an account is made on intel's promo site. The code is entered, and then an .exe verifies valid hardware.

So, you can have people make an account, share the login details. You log in, enter the code, and verify with your hardware.

I've done it 4 times for other people.
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Sweet, thanks.
 
Is there a video or benchmark chart showing the 285k vs 14900k in a bunch of games? I'm so curious how this latest update stacks up against last gen.
 
LigTasm said:
Uh, I just did it myself with their combo builder thing. You can see SSD and some games come with CPU: https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-ultra-7-265k-arrow-lake-lga-1851-processor/p/N82E16819118506

So I added that to my cart and went to the combo builder and picked a board I liked, and that also came with games. Could have been $100 cheaper but I wanted the white board. Seems like the Egg is trying to emulate Microcenter.
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I was monkeying with it the other day. For whatever reason, the combo builder only had Asus products. BUT, if you went to another vendor's motherboards and looked in the combo section below, you could find similar deals with other brands. I looked at that Z890-A/265K combo also, but ended up getting a 9600x, B850, 32GB RAM, 500GB NVMe combo for $375+ tax from NE. I was a little worried about their one and done socket rumors.
 
kirbyrj said:
I was monkeying with it the other day. For whatever reason, the combo builder only had Asus products. BUT, if you went to another vendor's motherboards and looked in the combo section below, you could find similar deals with other brands. I looked at that Z890-A/265K combo also, but ended up getting a 9600x, B850, 32GB RAM, 500GB NVMe combo for $375+ tax from NE. I was a little worried about their one and done socket rumors.
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Thats a good deal too! I don't worry about dead sockets because I'm a retard that buys whatever comes along. Longevity is the least of my concerns.
 
LigTasm said:
Thats a good deal too! I don't worry about dead sockets because I'm a retard that buys whatever comes along. Longevity is the least of my concerns.
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Realistically, I probably wouldn't have upgraded the Z890 combo, but I like the AM4/AM5 model because I end up handing down CPUs to others in my family when I upgrade.
 
What I find interesting is these benchmarks are total garbage because the memory latency are different and of course its going to reflect in frame rate.

a real benchmark would have the same memory latency and speed. These don't. What they don't tell you is DDR5-6000 CL30-38-38-96 is actually faster ram than DDR5-8200 CL40-52-52-131. Because the CAS is so high, it negates the extra 2000 mhz in frequency the ram has.

So far, I really haven't seen a real benchmark.
 
Not every task is latency sensitive. Clearly some are bandwidth sensitive which is where the higher frequency shines.

We saw this before when lower frequency and low cas ddr4 outperformed average ddr5 in certain situations.
 
kirbyrj said:
Not every task is latency sensitive. Clearly some are bandwidth sensitive which is where the higher frequency shines.

We saw this before when lower frequency and low cas ddr4 outperformed average ddr5 in certain situations.
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Since everyone is harping on frame rate, which is latency sensitive, it would make a difference.
 
LukeTbk said:
8200 CL40 has not more latency (9.75) then 6000 CL30 (10ns) too..
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Its one of these things about bench marking, If you not using the same hardware, how is it truly a real comparison?
Because I want to know how processor A works in comparison with processor B with the same hardware. That is a real benchmark.

So how does the 285K truly work when its ran with the same ram the AMD chip is running?
That is a real benchmark marketing people want to keep quiet with I guess.
 
cyberblogger said:
So how does the 285K truly work when its ran with the same ram the AMD chip is running?
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It depends what we mean by real, when talking buying a 285K level of chips for gaming people could be interested in some best performance versus best performance each cpu can reach, if the AMD chips peak at 6000 mhz RAN and Intel around 8000mhz that not an invalid comparison if it is clear to the consumer of the review what is going on.

A bit like a benchmark DLSS on vs FSR 4 benchmark on is maybe not a real apple to apple comp, that does not mean it is not a real benchmark and of no interest. Historically Intel CPU could reach higher memory bandwith as part of their "plus" (or minus when talking pricing...) removing it of the equation of forcing an AMD cpu to 8000mhz even if it lost performance vs running in 1:1 between 6000-6400mhz is not necessarily a better thing to do.

cyberblogger said:
Since everyone is harping on frame rate, which is latency sensitive, it would make a difference.
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But in that example latency is really close to each other, virtually the same.
 
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cyberblogger said:
Its one of these things about bench marking, If you not using the same hardware, how is it truly a real comparison?
Because I want to know how processor A works in comparison with processor B with the same hardware. That is a real benchmark.

So how does the 285K truly work when its ran with the same ram the AMD chip is running?
That is a real benchmark marketing people want to keep quiet with I guess.
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Gamer's Nexus Arrow Lake reviews use both DDR5 6000 and DDR5 8200, for the 285K.
For the 265k and 245k, they only used 6000.


There are now also some reviews out with Zen 5 and DDR5 8000.
 
The articles I've seen on "200S boost" claim it's a free performance boost for Arrow Lake owners, but the benches compare 220S with DDR5 8000 vs. stock with DDR5 6400. To know if it's really "free performance", it has to be tested with the same RAM. How much of the boost is strictly from the CPU, and how much is from faster RAM? Because if users who already have Arrow Lake have to buy new RAM to get the performance boost, then it's not "free".
 
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