The 2015 Sony TV Thread

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hannibl

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I came across this RTINGS link in the 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 HDMI 2.0 TV Database thread.

Best TVs For PC Monitors
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-usage/pc-monitor/best

I believe that these TVs were largely overshadowed by the Samsungs, but apparently as of September 15th, they got a firmware upgrade that allows them to display 1080p @ 120Hz. The Samsungs were tempting, but it was hard for me to justify paying that much to replace my Seiki 39, when I find 4k30Hz to be fine for work and 1080p120Hz to be exceptional for gaming. I also assume I'm not sensitive to PWM, but the Sony TV's also appear to be PWM free, with models available in both IPS and VA panels.

I'll check them out in person this weekend, but I wanted to open discussion and ask if anyone has any experience or opinion on them.
 
The only one below 50" is X830C which is IPS panel while Samsung has tons of 40/48" models.
 
Is Sony putting any more TVs out this year or is this it for them? As someone who typically favors Sony TVs... I just feel like they got lost in the lurch somewhere.
 
IIRC in 2015 the TV branch has become a subsidiary and is no longer part of the 'core' businesses of the group.
The switch to Android was part of this, as a cost-saving measure.

2015 is not a great Sony year, except maybe if you look at their flagship 4K models.
If they do a comeback with better mid-range sets (RIP 2013~2014 W series) we won't know until Q1 2016.
 
I have a Sony (2nd top of the range) and the CMS is rubbish, no 10 point white balance or proper RGB controls etc. Not acceptable on a high end TV, Also they use AUoptronics now instead of sony/samsung VA panels.
 
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I jumped ship from 65JS8500 to a 65x930c. So far so good. AUO's VA panels are better than Samsung's, and the reviews show it via measurements.
 
Is it possible to activate 4:2:2 for lower input lag x830c model? I know that Sony with game mode its still 4:4:4, but Samsung use 4:2:2 with game mode and because that input lag is much lower.
 
is this confirmed? do we have the holy grail of 4k?

- 40" or smaller
-true 4k@60Hz in sRGB or 4:4:4:
-true 1080p@120hz
- a gaming mode with less than 2 frames of total lag?
-PWM free
 
geok1ng said:
is this confirmed? do we have the holy grail of 4k?

- 40" or smaller
-true 4k@60Hz in sRGB or 4:4:4:
-true 1080p@120hz
- a gaming mode with less than 2 frames of total lag?
-PWM free
Click to expand...

That sounds like a wet dream! The main reason I'm still on 1080p/144hz is because I need the high refresh rate for multiplayer fps and don't want to deal with swapping monitors on my cramped desk that can only accommodate a single screen at a time.
 
Pleased to see my JU7500 rated so highly (tied for #2). It's been a great monitor for my computer. I have the 40". Too bad the JS9000 doesn't come in a 40". I hope we see some 4K OLED models in the 40" - 44" range, but I'm not counting on it.
 
Only an idiot would rate the Samsung's with their PWM Blur+Flicker/2005 motion quality and non-change-able wide gamut PC mode colours (applies to the 8500 & 9000 series) on par with the Sony's.
 
NCX said:
Only an idiot would rate the Samsung's with their PWM Blur+Flicker/2005 motion quality and non-change-able wide gamut PC mode colours (applies to the 8500 & 9000 series) on par with the Sony's.
Click to expand...

So even cheap low end Sony x830c is better for gaming and pc use than high end js9000 samsung?
 
aadik said:
So even cheap low end Sony x830c is better for gaming that high end js9000 samsung?
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Yes unless one has no standards and confuses over-saturated and inaccurate wide gamut colours for "quality" as well as has no appreciation for the time and effort people put into making consumer media look the way it does.
 
NCX said:
Only an idiot would rate the Samsung's with their PWM Blur+Flicker/2005 motion quality and non-change-able wide gamut PC mode colours (applies to the 8500 & 9000 series) on par with the Sony's.
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It must be so frustratingly unpleasant for you to live in a world in which everyone doesn't agree with everything you claim. :rolleyes: :p
 
rtrings says that x830c have 741:1 contrast is it worse than regular IPS pc monitors? Seems like many IPS monitors have 1000:1 factory specs but in reality they have similar contrast if calibrated?
 
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Tyler-Durden said:
It must be so frustratingly unpleasant for you to live in a world in which everyone doesn't agree with everything you claim. :rolleyes: :p
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It must be so frustratingly unpleasant to not understand the issues outlined by NCX. Seriously, if you don't understand that consumer media is sRGB/REC.709 (not wide-gamut; DCI-P3/REC.2020), and that PWM is bad, then I suggest educating yourself.

aadik said:
rtrings says that x830c have 741:1 contrast is it worse than regular IPS pc monitors? Seems like many IPS monitors have 1000:1 factory specs but in reality they have similar contrast if calibrated?
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Most IPS monitors range from 700-1000, but the Sony's panel could potentially glow less than normal (like the Crossover's panel), giving it superior black depth.
 
Nikyo said:
It must be so frustratingly unpleasant to not understand the issues outlined by NCX. Seriously, if you don't understand that consumer media is sRGB/REC.709 (not wide-gamut; DCI-P3/REC.2020), and that PWM is bad, then I suggest educating yourself.
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I'm enjoying the working and gaming experience too much on my terribly inferior Samsung to worry about these technicalities that seem so important to you and NCX. I suggest the two of you form a little friends group here on [H] where you can dazzle each other with your knowledge of these oh so important details.
 
Tyler-Durden said:
I'm enjoying the working and gaming experience too much on my terribly inferior Samsung to worry about these technicalities that seem so important to you and NCX. I suggest the two of you form a little friends group here on [H] where you can dazzle each other with your knowledge of these oh so important details.
Click to expand...

So, you've come to the thread to post ignorant comments, then get defensive of your purchase when called out (for some reason?) Cute. It's quite simple: There is no reason to purchase the Samsung over the Sony because the former has detriments that the latter does not. No one could possibly care about your Samsung; it is inferior, and there are superior options.

It's actually pretty hilarious that people need to rationalize their purchase by entering a thread and "putting it on par" with another, clearly superior product. Let's be objective: The Sony is far and away the better product, and the Samsung was an incredibly mediocre product, with no unique features, promoted by people that can't do so much as interpret the information out of a display review, nor understand PWM, or gamut differences.
 
I have some more questions about X830C model. Does this unit have PC mode and game mode like Samsung TV UHD or just one mode and thats 36ms 4:4:4/60hz? Or is 36ms game mode and PC mode have more input lag?
 
Tyler-Durden said:
I'm enjoying the working and gaming experience too much on my terribly inferior Samsung to worry about these technicalities that seem so important to you and NCX. I suggest the two of you form a little friends group here on [H] where you can dazzle each other with your knowledge of these oh so important details.
Click to expand...

If you want to be an advocate for ignorance and lower standards then you should start your own forum ([R]etard Forum is a suitable name for a forum founded on the above ideas) or just stick to the 4k Samsung thread where your kind of thinking is celebrated.

aadik said:
I have some more questions about X830C model. Does this unit have PC mode and game mode like Samsung TV UHD or just one mode and thats 36ms 4:4:4/60hz? Or is 36ms game mode and PC mode have more input lag?
Click to expand...

Read the Rtings review and check the AVS forums for this information...

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-brand/sony/x830c
 
rtrings only say about game mode and nothing about pc mode. But Samsung TV reviews they say both pc and game mode input lag.
Edit: nevermind, this TV have terrible glare problems so Im not interested in this TV anymore.
 
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aadik said:
Edit: nevermind, this TV have terrible glare problems so Im not interested in this TV anymore.
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It is an IPS panel after all. at 43" i would say that the amount of glare and backlight bleed is very small compared to the 34" IPS. Since it cost the same of the 40" Philips, it is a matter of usage scenario: the Sony better for gaming, the Philips better for working and watching videos. As expected in all VA vs IPS scenarios
 
geok1ng said:
It is an IPS panel after all. at 43" i would say that the amount of glare and backlight bleed is very small compared to the 34" IPS. Since it cost the same of the 40" Philips, it is a matter of usage scenario: the Sony better for gaming, the Philips better for working and watching videos. As expected in all VA vs IPS scenarios
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Backlight bleed no problem for me, but I think I cant live with so glossy screen that everytime I use it bright room I see myself on that screen. Seems like big problem because rtrings talk about that problem and many Amazon reviewers too.
Edit: In here Sony costs 930€ and Phillips 637€
 
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geok1ng said:
The Philips better for working and watching videos. As expected in all VA vs IPS scenarios
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How can a VA panel with lots of gamma shift which is known to suffer from obvious colour saturation loss and PWM be better for work? This is a rhetorical question. The VA panel used by in the 4K 40" monitors also has a small colour space on par with budget 1080p IPS/PLS but smaller than most budget VA monitors and the large 4K AHVA/IPS/PLS.

aadik said:
Backlight bleed no problem for me, but I think I cant live with so glossy screen that everytime I use it bright room I see myself on that screen.
Click to expand...

The 40" 4k monitors along with most of the large (43" and up) 4k AH-IPS panels use the same semi-glossy coating. Coating comparisons.
 
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NCX do you like 434k? So I understand that Sony 43'' x830c and 434k use same LG panel? And that means they all use same coating? So I can watch 434k gameplay videos and excatly same picture quality have x830c too? And can you say why x830c can make 120hz@1080p and 434k not if they have same panel?
 
aadik said:
NCX do you like 434k?
Click to expand...

Read the review I linked you to.

aadik said:
So I understand that Sony 43'' x830c and 434k use same LG panel? And that means they all use same coating?
Click to expand...

Yes x2.

aadik said:
So I can watch 434k gameplay videos and excatly same picture quality have x830c too?
Click to expand...

No, they have different colour presets (the Sony is better) and 'gameplay' videos are subject to the quality of the camera used to record them, software used to edit and compress the video and Youtube compression.

aadik said:
And can you say why x830c can make 120hz@1080p and 434k not if they have same panel?
Click to expand...

Because they use different PCB's and logic boards with different inputs which are customized by the manufacturer.
 
Big thanks for you NCX you have been so helpful for me :). I was VA fanboy but now with your help I think I am IPS fanboy and maybe OLED too in future if they are more cheaper.
Edit: But its still hard to find input lag with pc mode or is game mode and pc mode same on Sony TV?
 
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I read your 434k review and im little bit confused you said that screen isn't good use for dark rooms but I like play games at night in dark room so that means x830c/434k isn't for me and still I must find VA panel for that?
 
@aadik I'm getting the 43x830c delivered tomorrow so I'll let you know what I think once it's all set up. I'm coming from a 24" IPS so I think I'm used to the lower contrast and black levels of these panels.

My main TV is an LG IPS as well never had any issues with the blacks on either to be honest.
 
I use 7-8 year old TN monitor with 700:1 contrast 19'' 1280x1024 so maybe contrast isnt problem for me too then?
 
I looked up the contrast for my current monitor and it's ranging from 700:1 to 800:1 depending on brightness setting so sounds very similar to yours. I never found it to be an issue even in dark games like amnesia.
 
aadik said:
I read your 434k review and im little bit confused you said that screen isn't good use for dark rooms but I like play games at night in dark room so that means x830c/434k isn't for me and still I must find VA panel for that?
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Pitch black rooms is where VA contrast really shines, but you'll still run into massive amounts of gamma shift, especially on a larger panel like this. Glow is more apparent on IPS panels in a dark room, as is black depth differences (contrast,) which will have the IPS blacks looking gray. However, it stands to reason that if you're not bothered by your TN panels poor contrast and color accuracy, then an IPS panel will likely not bother you at all. There are ways to remedy this issue, too. Particularly if you're willing to apply some form of bias lighting behind your monitor to help improve the black depth in a darker room. I'd recommend doing this for the sheer fact that it helps ward off eye strain, while improving other things.

Anyone that's serious about LCD image quality will likely be using some form of bias lighting anyway.
 
Cant use bias lighting because I use screen in middle of room and not near to wall. But i think im happy with IPS contrast if its same like my TN. This forum black backround is very black and im happy with that if thats 700:1
 
Nikyo said:
Anyone that's serious about LCD image quality will likely be using some form of bias lighting anyway.
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I do. But with IPS there's still not much we can do to improve the poor blacks perception no matter how hard we try.
My already 'old' 1080p W6 (2013) might have less-natural-than-IPS colors, but it's still MUCH more enjoyable to watch movies on it than on any IPS I've used before.

Regarding the 'debate', it's obvious that the Sony's are the superior displays, Sony almost always produce competent displays anyway (still lacking 10-point white balance settings though), those Samsungs in comparison are very expensive for such a clumsy design.
But I bet people will still choose the Samsungs for the lower lag, which I have to admit is a major point in their favor.

Whatever people, go see an OLED in an appropriate showroom if there's one in your area, and you'll feel any LCD is too expensive. :p
 
NCX said:
How can a VA panel with lots of gamma shift which is known to suffer from obvious colour saturation loss and PWM be better for work? This is a rhetorical question. The VA panel used by in the 4K 40" monitors also has a small colour space on par with budget 1080p IPS/PLS but smaller than most budget VA monitors and the large 4K AHVA/IPS/PLS. .
Click to expand...

explaim to us, like we are 5 years old, how can panels with the very same W-LED backlight have significantly different color spaces?
AFAIK, all these sub $1000 4k panels use W-LED and are restricted to 99% sRGB coverage.
I am not aware, that the Philips panel has "lots of gamma shift", since i was led to believe by TFTcentral that this dispaly actually has the smallest gamma shift among all modern VA panels. the very same TFTcentral review led me to believe that this display does not have a smaller color space than competing W-LEd solutions. Did TFTcentral lied? ( retorical question).

It is better for work (coding, typing, reading) because:
- it is not 43" in size
-does not suffer from BLB nor IPS glow
-has much higher contrast
-has displayport, which is easier to connect to laptops than HDMI 2.0 solutions like the Sony.

neither display is adequate for real color critical work, like printing stuff IRL, and for web content production, if anyone has an advantage, itis the Philips, without BLB or IPs glow.
 
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