Considering it comes with their semi autonomous driving.. Man i doubt they would cut the ac out of the base model.
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Tesla Unveils $35,000-Model 3 With 215 Mile Range
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Southern, SCE
However, none of their plans would save me money.
1. Install a separate meter for charging the car. It would take way too many years of savings to pay for installing a 2nd meter.
2. Time of use plan. Cheaper at night, but they jack up the price during the day. Since I have a wife & kid at home, it would actually cost me more, especially during the summer when they run the Air.
D
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Probably going to run $50k in Canada. AWD version would likely be closer to $70k. Still not affordable for most people up here
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Zarathustra[H]
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If it's anything like the Model S, medium level basics are included at the base price, so power windows, mirrors and seats, rain sensing wipers, an OK stereo, etc.
But if it's anything like the Model S, it will also have plenty of optional extras (fancier wheels, LED lighting, road tracking headlights, panoramic sunroof, larger batteries, better stereo, premium interior materials, enough to drive the price up to double the base price or more.
And they also sell more accessories than you can shake a stick at, some of them pretty expensive.
One thing that irks me a little bit is that official Tesla adapters (to allow you to charge from a variety of different types of plugs) can be pricy extras. IMHO, plugs for all common outlet types should be included with an electric car, but that's just me.
Then theres the cost of adding a 240V high amperage circuit to your house in order to charge the thing (unless you already have an unused electric dryer plug). you won't want to charge your electric car over a 120V 15A plug. You'll get ~6 miles worth of charge per hour spent charging. So, in budgeting for one of these, factor in electrician costs.
Beaflag VonRathburg
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That makes a good bit of sense. I know this isn't 1990, but there's still varying ideas of what, "Basic included features" are.
Honestly, the price of adding the necessitated wiring upgrade would depend house to house. I dropped four 240v 30amp breakers into my garage at my last house for cost. My breaker panel was directly above my garage and I just ran the wiring right through the ceiling. Now, if you have something more complicated (like I do now) I could see the cost adding up. Probably the best option for most would just be adapting a plug for your dryer outlet.
Well solar isn't that bad, if you own the house and sell it, the solar adds to the value of the house so you don't actually have to wait for the break even point to come out ahead. Also very surprised you would need a 15 year break even at $.28 cents, net metering plans count against your most expensive usage first, not the lowest. However, if you happen to live near a supercharger station, you can get a free charge by dropping by once a week.
Yeah I think VW put the final nail in the coffin of diesel in the US except for heavy duty trucks.
My gas powered car has the same range as the Tesla 3. I don't see it as a problem.
So when you've driven 215 miles in your gas powered car, how long does it take to fill up?
Now how long does it take for a "fill up" on an electric car?
That would be why it's a problem for some people. Instead of simply stopping for gas, you tack on the charge time even at a supercharge station, to the time spent traveling. For people using it to get groceries, or even commuting to work it may not be an issue(even with distance you may be able to charge the thing while you're working), but if you need to go on extended trips(and driving 100 miles(and of course back again isn't ridiculous for people to do regularly for a number of reasons), it's useless.
As you said, there are some people this won't work for, some people need a pickup truck, minivan and others need range, they can look elsewhere. This is clearly for commuters and stay at home parents, with superchargers helping with the occasional long distance trip or family relocation so you don't need to have your car flatbedded when you move, or get you a bit farther over a weekend.
Most people would be OK with just topping up every night on their mains and not thinking about range except on weekends where you'll need an extra 30 minutes here and there to charge and have a snack with free electricity that subsidizes your latte. Shouldn't everyone take a break after driving 200 miles?
Retronym
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Does this one have the insane acceleration?
215 miles is about 2 weeks, and refilling it only takes a few minutes. I can probably spend the 5 minutes it takes to plug in at home when I need to charge it every 2 weeks, I hope.
In an emergency there's a Tesla Supercharger station 2 blocks away from home.I think that people consider very narrow cases where an electric car might be a hassle, and ignore the vast majority of vehicle owners where it's nowhere near a problem.
They're trending towards 200k preorders for this thing. Their entire plant output last year was 50k. Granted, they do have a massive facility that is mainly unused, but I think a lot of these preorders won't be seen until 2018.
Good thing is that Musk learned a lot on the Model X and they aren't doing anything that's done just to be different. That's why the X got delayed so many times.
Good thing is that Musk learned a lot on the Model X and they aren't doing anything that's done just to be different. That's why the X got delayed so many times.
At that price, I have to agree that this might not make sense. I think I pay 6 cents/kwh, so it'd make sense for me. I'll also add that 200 miles is not highway speeds. If you look at the roadster, which has a 400 mile range, it's at something like 55 MPH, and the speed limit on road trips is typically 75, which means I can really drive 84.
westrock2000
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Volkswagen didn't give diesel a bad name, the US and EU governments did for making it seem like you could get something for nothing. They put all their eggs in one basket, so called "carbon emissions", while completely ignoring NOx. Which is fine, but people told them several years ago that NOx would be an issue.
Volkswagen played the game the governments wanted, they just played it better then expected.
NickJames
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Looks like shit.
The really serious limiting factor for the Model 3 is the production at the gigafactory plant. As long as batteries are expensive, they can only ship the configurations where the margin from the upgraded cosmetics and luxury items can offset the higher battery prices, and the prices won't go down at the gigafactory until there's volume so they'll risk losing money if they try to build too quickly and end up buying cells off the market when their own factory can't keep up. So if the batteries aren't coming fast enough, the whole assembly line slows down to compensate. When the batteries ramp up, they'll have to ramp up hiring and training to match etc. Lots of potential blockers from the battery side since it's the once thing they can't really partner/subcontract around. Luckily this car isn't doing anything too crazy, they said that the Model S and Model X were both designed around Musk's needs in a car (big family, wealthy), so lots of the features were definitely niche, and it was a shame they were the cause of the production slowdown.
Committing fraud is not playing the game. Every other company making diesel cars wondered how they were doing it. Now we know. They weren't.
I don't think that was the case, Volkswagen's cars greatly exceeded the EU specifications for Diesel cars, in fact they set those Nox emmission guidelines based on multi-year reduction plans to ease manufacturers into the targets gradually and expected manufacturers to stick to them. Now, they're talking about revising the Nox guidelines to accelerate the reduction since they're basically years or decades behind environmental target as a result. We can blame the governments for not catching the problem or permitting self-regulation, but I don't think anybody expected the largest car company in the world to take such a big risk. It's like finding out that the Citibank has been running a Bernie Madoff scheme for 10 years and needs a trillion dollars of new deposits today to pay this month's round, or McDonalds adding opium into their french fries to get people addicted.
Twisted Kidney
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The range is serviceable for most, but then I live in the sweet, serene middle of nowhere. Even gas jobs with too short a range are a problem.
A food truck where you can cook your meals on the road, then turn the drippings into biodiesel? Where's Mr. Fusion now that we really need it?
It's very true that 215 miles is great for some people. However, I'm not the one who was questioning why someone else commented that the range wasn't acceptable for them. It seems that some folks(not you, the guy that prompted my response in the first place) can't think outside of their own personal little bubble.
Yeah, everyone has different needs, i just hope people don't shoot down the concept or create too much FUD just because it is not the 100% solution, we need these types of concepts to survive in the market so we can find better options rather than sticking to dinojuice because it's the cheapest/most flexible solution today. I'm pretty psyched to see if fuel cells are the solution for longer ranges since electric tech and fuel cell / hybrid tech are really hand in hand. This is going to be a 30 year problem/solution.
I agree. The US really needs to get away from internal combustion vehicles over the next few decades. Hyundai has a hydrogen fuel cell car for lease in California with fueling at 10 public hydrogen fuel stations included in the price. Fuel cells are a greener solution than full electric vehicles because most power plants still use coal.
2016's Top Ten Tech Cars: Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell - IEEE Spectrum
If India's populace ever gets as many cars per person as we have in the US then the world carbon output would run away quickly.
Skripka
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It should be noted that in most places the gas/diesel taxes have been so inadequate to pay for the local road wear/tear usage, for so long, that property taxes are the predominant way to fund road construction and repair. And ofc that isn't adequate either.
arthur_tuxedo
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Well said. Every new technology or idea gets treated this way. Criticized for every minor way in which it falls short of the established idea with no consideration for every aspect in which it is superior. It's been years since the last time I drove more than 200 miles in one trip, and even longer since I drove farther than 400. If a Model 3 were my only car, I would have had to rent a gas car to drive up the coast just once in the past decade, which would have been cheaper than driving my own gas car anyway due to the wear and tear. Meanwhile, most people spend an extra 15 mins each week driving to the gas station, filling up, and driving back even if they try to do it while running other errands. That's 13 wasted hours per year that you would get back by owning an EV. They are also much more pleasant to drive because they deliver a lot more torque at low speeds, have a low center of gravity due to the battery under the floor, and are much quieter. EV's are not for everyone, of course, and won't compete on an even playing field for another ~10 years, but that's no reason to listen to the FUD that keeps getting repeated even though it's been conclusively debunked since 2011 when people started buying EVs en masse.215 miles is about 2 weeks, and refilling it only takes a few minutes. I can probably spend the 5 minutes it takes to plug in at home when I need to charge it every 2 weeks, I hope.
I think that people consider very narrow cases where an electric car might be a hassle, and ignore the vast majority of vehicle owners where it's nowhere near a problem.
False. States where most EVs are sold have most of their power grid on natural gas, but even if the grid is 100% coal it wouldn't make hydrogen FCVs greener since you put more carbon in the air generating and transporting the hydrogen fuel than if you had just charged a battery.* Hydrogen vehicles combine the disadvantages of EVs and gas cars, as they have less range and power than a gas car and need a whole new refueling infrastructure, they're just as expensive as EVs but you can't charge them at home so you still have to fill up regularly. As electric turbochargers, better hybrid tech, and other methods push MPG of gas hybrids above 60 MPG, hydrogen FCVs will be a fully redundant technology.
*The related claim that EVs are no more efficient or environmentally friendly than gas cars because of coal power is also false, mostly because states that buy lots of EVs mainly use natural gas power but also because even a 100% coal grid is still cleaner than thousands of tailpipes and EVs mostly charge at night when the power would have otherwise been wasted.
Yeah, I thought about that as well. To put it in perspective, if they were to double output to 100k cars a year, that's 278cars per day. That's a lot of lithium cells.
I'm not so sure about that, all you need for a hydrogen filling station is a water supply, and solar electrolysis, you could provide both electrical charging and hydrogen filling at the same station. Any power not charging the storage cells or fed into the grid can convert to hydrogen. Since most cars (not racing or specialty applications) use very little power in steady state, the battery can provide enough for acceleration and spirited driving while the fuel cell is sized to maintain speed and top off the battery, while the space freed up is used for hydrogen storage (not liquid, but chemically bonded solids). You can simply increase the size of the tank for longer distance vehicles so it makes a lot of sense for large trucks, with only a minimal increase in price since the battery size doesn't grow as quickly. You can still charge them at home for commuting purposes as it still has a battery (but with a shorter all-electric range, the sportier it is the larger it gets) and you can convert natural gas to hydrogen in your home if that's the option that is most convenient. Natural gas fuel cells also exist, though they need research/cash infusions to be as practical as hydrogen, though in a way we really want to stick with fully recyclable fuels rather than dino-fart unless they can make flex-fuel cells. Hydrogen based fuel cell technology also becomes a potential method to store power generated from solar during the day by stockpiling hydrogen, so it's a virtuous cycle of technology. But only if we give them a chance when they're still sketchy tech.
Yep, rumors say they're switching to a different battery tech, which makes sense. The current cars use 18650s which are pretty small but off the shelf and common. So you end up soldering thousands of them together, that's a lot of wasted space and points of failure. Gigafactory will probably make much physically larger cells so they can use hundreds instead of thousands, i'm sure that will greatly speeds up assembly and testing. But nobody knows how well that factory buildout has been going and they probably won't be able to fall back on 18650s if they fall behind since you wont' be able to reach the same battery density in a smaller car.
ShepsCrook
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I like most of the car's design, but that front without a grill looks weird. That's been my gripe with the Model S. It's front black plastic looks odd. Don't get me wrong, the Model S and the rest of it's looks outweigh the faux grill thing, but with the Model III, it's got nothing but smooth bumper which looks.... weird.
I'd want to see at least a fake grill on it or something.
I'd want to see at least a fake grill on it or something.
Someone photoshopped in what it would look like with a vinyl sticker on the front. I expect this will be "a thing" people do when they get theirs. It would look decent with a long european style license plate though.
ShepsCrook
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This is what I was even thinking of. I photoshopped the grill from a Ford Fusion.
vs:
vs:
Krenum
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I suppose electric cars are the future but lets all keep in mind where that electricity that powers them comes from.
Most people I know bought solar first, then went electric. Those panels still pollute less (in manufacturing) than fuel powered sources for the power generated. Pollution from manufacturing is better than a normal car, if you balance the difference between air pollution vs manufacturing polution, and is only getting cleaner as we get higher power density with battery design improvements. Any power they pump into the grid from solar during the day encourages power companies to size for evening consumption levels rather than daytime as they did in the past, while we wait for a viable power storage system. Some people live near hydroelectric or wind and are therefore greener. The important thing is Electric cars are progressively cleaner as our power sources improve. Considering so many cars are on the road over 10-15 years (at least in the US and 3rd world where we exempt old cars from pollution laws), this makes a difference.
This is what I was even thinking of. I photoshopped the grill from a Ford Fusion.
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It's funny how they all look like Aston Martins. The spirit of Henrik Fisker strikes again!
westrock2000
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Even if you assume it comes from a coal burning plant, the proponents of electric vehicles will tell you that it is easier to scrub the emissions of one power plant then it is 100,000 individual tail pipes. And I think that is a fair statement.