Tesla Unveils $35,000-Model 3 With 215 Mile Range

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Kueller

    Kueller [H]ardness Supreme

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    When is [H] going to get around to OC'ing a Tesla?
     
  2. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    When they find the right pins to jump to increase the FSB.
     
  3. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I've driven from Louisiana to AZ, and you could not do it in a Tesla. In fact, you can't get from Dallas to El Paso. To get to New Orleans, you'd have to go through Houston and it'd take you several hours out of your way. The point isn't just going to Coast to Coast, it's that the network of super chargers is virtually useless outside of the East and west coast and a few highways going towards Chicago. I55 goes from New Orleans to Chicago, but you probably couldn't get to St. Louis, even though Memphis is roughly 200 miles in between Jackson (has a super charger) and St. Louis. Want to go from Jackson to Atlanta? You can't.

    In my life, I've done far more driving East/West in my life than North South. If you live on the East or West coast, then yeah, that makes sense, but 10 and 20 are the main highways in the south. Sure you may head up 55, 49, 45 or 35 for a bit, but normally you're going at least as much on an east/west highway...and again, Tesla is full of fail in the south and a lot of the mid west too.
     
  4. SuperSubZero

    SuperSubZero 2[H]4U

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    Teslas are, and always have been, cars for commuting and local driving. Nobody who buys one should realistically think they will drive cross country (or cross many states) with one. That said, just because the infrastructure for a few hundred mile drive doesn't exist where you are, doesn't mean it doesn't exist anywhere or won't exist in the future.

    Right now, a Tesla is (a) a primary car for a mid-mileage commuter who doesn't travel long distances by car regularly, and (b) a second car for a family that already has a gas car to handle long trips. I'm actually right in the (a) section. I live near work (which has free charging stations) and I rarely drive more than a couple hundred miles a *week*. Point: My 2005 car has less than 80K on it.

    I just have an irrational disdain of touch screens in cars, so I am not seriously looking at the 3 or any other Tesla. I'm more interested in what cars exist soon after it does.
     
  5. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Really, that isn't a Tesla problem, it's likely based on being lower traveled routes with lots of nothing around.

    Here is a map for every kind of alternative fuel available (Electricity,CNG, Biodiesel, Ethanol).
    Alternative Fuels Data Center: Alternative Fueling Station Locator

    Western interior regions are sparsely served for everything. It's a natural product of lower population density and lower traveled routes.

    You are simply going to be last to get everything. Not just superchargers.
     
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  6. Revdarian

    Revdarian 2[H]4U

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    It is nice to see that the electric cars are getting to the sweet spot in mileage, it is still not enough for me and others but for a good percentage of the population they are really good enough, and in the end, that is awesome in it's own way.
     
  7. Sufu

    Sufu [H]ard|Gawd

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  8. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Would be good general car for most people, ignoring the price mind you, as most people won't get close to 215 miles, and for those of you that say "well I regularly drive...." guess what you are not in the group of "most people".

    That said, that 215 miles is really an ideal case, flat roads, lower than highway speeds, no wind. I would love one of these as Lake Tahoe and Yosemite are each within that 215 mile range (two places I do go to on a yearly basis as a vacation), but there's no way it would make it there (ignoring how I would charge once I get there). That said, it would be a good everyday car, but I already have one, granted the car is 10 years old, but the ol' Prius keeps going, we are a 1 car family, so one of these wouldn't be in my future even if I had to replace my Prius.
     
  9. tybert7

    tybert7 2[H]4U

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    I'd be surprised if there was not an upgraded battery variant of the model 3 that could get close to or break 300 miles of range. The 215 mile range is the minimum target of the car in late 2017, they left it a bit more open likely due to the uncertainty of incremental improvements in battery cell energy density, but with luck, the base range might increase to 230-250+ miles of range and further extending out the upgraded range.

    The model 3 is around 20 % smaller and lighter than the model s, ergo the same energy capacity moves you farther in the 3 since the baseline weight needed to move is less by default.


    I fully expect the model 3 to become the baseline car even for the well to do that have model S cars. It's not as large and the S, and that mkes it easier to maneuver into tighter spaces and park in the city. As a Side note, I actually think the model 3 looks better than the S too.


    And I wonder what sorts of fancy things they could do with that glass ceiling. I read a comment wondering aloud if a future announcement would be that the glass ceiling could be upgraded to some sort of electrochemical glass that could turn opaque on command if you wanted to block out sunlight. It would be just another example of super futuristic looking tech in the car.

     
  10. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    276k orders now. Or roughly $276mil in deposits.

    If every car is $35,000 and all preorders are fulfilled that is $9.66bil.

    For context:

    Ford Mustang 2015 (CalYear): 96,225
    Chevy Camaro 2015 (CalYear): 61,544
    BMW 3-Series 2015 (CalYear): 112,808

    To fulfill the 276k preorders in two years time, the factory would need to work 24/7 and produce 378 cars PER day for 365 days of the year. That's if they only produced this one car and roughly 1 car every 4 minutes.

    I think those who weren't early on the preorder train are going to be in for quite a long wait.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
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  11. SLee

    SLee Gawd

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    MB already has that with their Magic Sky Control sunroofs in certain models.
     
  12. arthur_tuxedo

    arthur_tuxedo Gawd

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    EVs have been around since the 1800s, but it wasn't until recently that powerful batteries could be produced cheaply enough. No amount of development could have yielded a practical EV in the days of lead-acid batteries
     
  13. Skripka

    Skripka [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I was thinking more of the first fuel cell prototypes made by Chrysler in the 50s-60s that went nowhere for the next 50 years....much to Chrysler and GM's detriment.

    Practical battery tech is rather recent....OTOH it wasn't until smartphones came along that anyone cared about rechargables other than lead-acid much.

    Makes me very skeptical of who is ordering these. Almost wondering if businesses or car rental or taxi places are wanting to snatch them up.
     
  14. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I wonder if at some point they are going to shut down the reservation list, or start a waiting list for reservations, that you can only get if someone drops out.

    This is definitely one for the automotive history books. I expect every other car company will be talking up their EV work in a big way now.

    One more thing. Tesla doesn't even advertise.
     
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  15. Skripka

    Skripka [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Considering that the "reservation" is for a car not even going to be on public roads for 12-18 months...a "reservation" is pretty much the definition of being on a "waiting list"....except a waiting list gives you some firm clue as to when you might get your item.
     
  16. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    People feel comfortable doing the $1000 reserve because there is no commitment. It's just a placeholder that can be withdrawn at any moment with no risk. Tesla shouldn't want to shut down the reservation list because this is basically an interest free loan for them.

    If there was a commitment to buying, and part of the reserve was nonrefundable, I guarantee you there would be a lot less reservations.
     
  17. lee0539

    lee0539 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yea i think people are forgetting that this doesn't mean they are going to sell 250K+ cars for sure. A lot of people are reserving the spot early on so that in the event that they do want to buy the car they can do so without waiting additional 1-3 years for production to catch up to the queue. Think about all the people who probably don't have the funds to buy a tesla but just want one so they reserve one since $1000 is much easier to swallow than 35,000+ dollars. They think 2-3 years from now they will have the money to buy one but how many people are good about saving up money? Something like a car is usually bought when it is needed (ie old car breaks down or no longer worth fixing or child is going off to college, wife is pregnant and now need family car, etc). It isn't usually something people can plan out 2-3 years in advance unless it just happens to fall around that time. Very few people can afford a "weekend or extra" car and they will end up not purchasing because of many factors like tax, insurance, charging stations, much wanted options, etc that will push the price up above 40k. But I personally am planning to purchase the car so far from what I have seen and will probably be in the market for a car in 2-3 years for sure. Also there are a lot of people who reserved 2 cars but will most likely only buy one. At some point Tesla will start taking orders with non refundable deposits and that is when you will most likely see a huge drop in the number of people who actually will purchase the car. I do hope before we have to put in such a deposit, we will be able to test drive the car and get a firm understanding of pricing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
  18. Delemon

    Delemon Limp Gawd

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    Had my reservation in before noon on Thursday. I commute 120 miles/day round trip and have 8 superchargers in my home town. I'll get into town, plug in, take my evening run, and be charged by the time I'm done. I'd guesstimate that at least 95% of my driving will fit in that 215 mile base range (though I will go for an extended pack if possible), and have an ICE car for anything super long distance. I can hardly wait!!
     
  19. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Sure, not all of those 250K reservations will buy cars.

    But that is also something like 2 or 3 days worth of reservations. Reservations aren't going to just stop dead there and bleed down. New reservations are going to keep coming at a slower rate. Who knows how high the number will go before the departures start exceeding new reservations, and the number starts declining.

    I think this is pretty good sign they have a real winner on their hands.
     
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  20. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    We could solve alot of that air conditioning problem by building subterranean or burmed structures. Having a foot or two of earth cover a building would prevent much heat from getting in to the living space.

    There is also another trick where you draw in fresh air to a subterranean structure with a pipe that snakes in the ground. This takes the outside air and equalizes the temperature to that of the ground. So in the summer it would cool the outside air and in the winter heat up the air. So you get fresh air that is a comfortable temperature.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  21. Xrave

    Xrave [H]ardness Supreme

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    When I placed my preorder it said that they will contact later with the detailed options on your car purchase: color, options, etc. At that point the $1k becomes non-refundable.

    However at that point if the local Tesla dealership doesn't have a model 3 to test drive, then I will definitely cancel it. There's no way I'd drop $1k before even trying the vehicle.
     
  22. lee0539

    lee0539 [H]ard|Gawd

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    From what I understand the first people who were able to get their hands on the Tesla S and even X never test drove the car before. Correct me if I'm wrong. So most likely if you want it very early on you probably do have to buy it blindly and just trust elon based on the tesla S and X. I'm sure eventually you will be able to test drive the car before you buy but that will delay your delivery date so you won't have the car until production catches up to the people who bought it blindly.
     
  23. total0wnage

    total0wnage [H]Lite

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    price is good, range sucks though. atleast theres more and more telsa charging stations being put up
     
  24. Xrave

    Xrave [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm not actually sure, but I personally can't bring myself to buying a car before actually trying said car...even if I have to give up my place in queue.
     
  25. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    At the time of their release the S and the X were the only ones of their kind. By the time the 3 comes out, several other competitors will already be on the market.

    Additionally, Elon Musk's buyback guarantee played a huge part in people's decision making I'm sure.
     
  26. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Public displays of your Green Piety, and until now, wealth.
     
  27. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    absolutely agree...
     
  28. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If you mean the III, that's fine. If you mean the S, I'm sorry, but it's a luxury car, and if I get one, the place I'd most like to take it is on the road, not to the grocery store and work. The S is competing with Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus, not a Nissan Leaf.
     
  29. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ... and sour grapes from some who don't own it.
     
  30. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    'Teslas are about status over substance' confirmed.

    But anyway, you entirely missed my zing. And I didn't think it was that subtle. Just about anyone can own one now. The only exclusion is the level of fanboy-ism in which you got yourself on the wait list. And in all honesty from what the magzines say there will be at least two models of cars that are this car's competitors (same price, same range, maybe even a little better on one or the other) on the road for 1 or 2 years before this. This will be a Johnny come lately when it does come out, that's what being on the wait list will get you.

    But about the price point. Do you really think the fact Lincolns come form the same company that Fiestas come from doesn't hurt the perception of Lincolns? Same for Cadillac and Cruzes? Well now Tesla has it's Cruze. And all those Model S's just got a little less special.
     
  31. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The only thing confirmed is your sour grapes.

    The Model S was Motor Trends car of the year, no big deal, but it was also the only unanimous vote they ever had in the history of the Award.

    Consumer Reports gave the Model S the highest score they ever gave any car, in the history of the magazine.

    That isn't status, it's a damn great car. It isn't just great for an EV, it's great for any car.
     
  32. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    The free Media buzz for giving that car the awards had nothing to do with it? The Socio-Political climate that rewards such cooing over Tesla or an all electric had nothing to do with it? Or members with rose colored glasses had nothing to do with it. All with no cost to their credibility because there is no electric car in that price range to compete and make comparisons.

    They are now making a car that is actually something to compare against.

    All $100,000+ vehicles are nice for one reason or another. Or should I say Tesla S's really start at $150,000. They get $7,500 which everyone knows about. EV's also get 5 fuel economy credits they can sell to other automakers which are priced at rough $5,000 give or take. And Telsa and the State of CA perpetrated a fraud concerning the battery fast change which gives them another 4 credits. So you really need to compare them against other cars starting at $150,000.

    It has nice 0-60 acceleration, but that's a one-trick pony associated with a different technology. Did they ever fix the squeak in the glass roof that develops if you push the car regularly?

    Its true I have some heartburn over Tesla's false hype. But that's it. I have no sour grapes over not having one. IF you offered me one, like any $100,000+ car I would take it long enough to sell it. I am inherently cheap, and I would have to make millions to pay for a car just for status, especially status built on uneducated Buzz.

    But go ahead keep implying you think I feel left out of money or access and keep proving the motivation behind wanting one.
     
  33. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think your angry rants continue to prove you have a textbook case of sour grapes.
     
  34. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    k. sure. whatever. Enjoy your Tesla Cruze.
     
  35. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So no mercedes, because they make Smart cars. No Lexus, because Toyota. Audi? That's a Volkswagen. Infinity? Nissan. Acura? Honda. Ferrari? Chrysler. I could go on, but using your logic, you've pretty much eliminated every luxury car out there...I guess maybe you can still buy a Mclaren (but maybe some big company owns them too).
     
  36. lee0539

    lee0539 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Tesla is elon musk's vision to remove our dependence on oil and to decrease world's pollution. It was never about making cars of higher status than other luxury cars. The reason they are expensive is that you are basically buying prototypes and funding the development of the model 3. Everyone knew model 3 was coming out in the future before even the model X was out. The plan was to make an affordable EV car that could work for most people and break the myth of EV cars being ugly, small, slow, unsafe, impractical, etc. Even if Tesla isn't the right car for you, competition is a good thing for the auto industry. Considering how fast technology has developed, automobiles have always been many years behind in keeping up because they had no incentive. These 14 giant corporations dominate the global auto industry leading to an oligopoly driving up prices and increased margin. The model 3 doesn't affect the price of the model S anyway. The model S is much larger, faster, has all the tech stuff that model 3 probably won't have unless they allow for a lot of options on the model 3 bringing the price up to 60k+ dollars. Also the more teslas that are sold the more supercharging stations will be developed. Who even knows if model 3 owners will have to pay for supercharging while model S owners won't. Or model S owners getting first dibs on charging spots.
     
  37. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Model S owners do pay for supercharging. It's part of the price. I'd be shocked if the 3 doesn't have that too.
     
  38. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The upfront payment doesn't go into some kind of Supercharger fund to pay for future charging though. It is really new cars paying for old customer to keep charging their cars for free, forever.

    That really isn't going to be sustainable if Tesla really starts pumping out hundreds of thousands of cars/year, or when growth levels off.

    So I have my doubts that Supercharging will be the same for the Model 3 as it is for the the Model S. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of usage charge, or usage restriction on Model 3.
     
  39. Sufu

    Sufu [H]ard|Gawd

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    Elon Musk already confirmed on Twitter that the Model 3 includes Supercharging. I don't see the Model 3 gaining fast traction without it IMO.

    There might be restrictions, but I have doubts on that. Seen no evidence to back up that theory.
     
  40. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Tesla has changed the wording around supercharging 3 times since the reveal. Tesla was contacted and the official spokesperson response was: "All Model 3 will have the capability for Supercharging. We haven't specified (and aren't right now) whether supercharging will be free."

    So who knows exactly what they are planning.