Tesla Troll and Short Doxed as Heavily Invested in Oil Industry

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    “Montana Skeptic,” a Seeking Alpha contributor who some consider to be one of Tesla’s biggest anonymous trolls and shorts, was recently doxed: his real identity is Lawrence Fossi, an investment manager who happens to be heavily invested in the oil industry. The critic has opted to stop writing about Tesla after CEO Elon Musk contacted his place of work and threatened to sue.

    Fossi has often pushed narratives about Tesla that have been proven to be completely wrong. For example, he predicted that Tesla would deliver fewer than 18,000 Model X’s in 2016. Not only was he wrong by about 40%, but he claimed that the limitation would be demand when it was in fact production, which was limited during the first half of the year.
     
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  2. toast0

    toast0 Gawd

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    To be fair, Musk has often pushed narratives about Tesla that have been wrong (production targets, dates in general), but we don't see people contacting his place of work and threatening to sue. :)
     
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  3. klingonscum

    klingonscum Limp Gawd

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only source for the information that "Tesla contacted this guy's place of work and threatened to sue"...is the troll himself, yes? We haven't gotten any independent third party corroboration that "Musk called this guy's boss up and threatened to sue"?

    Now, I could easily see Musk calling up and complaining to this guy's boss, it seems like the sort of thing ol' Elon would do, but let's just say that anything "Montana Skeptic" says at this point I wouldn't exactly take as gospel truth...
     
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  4. Gigantopithecus

    Gigantopithecus [H]ardOCP Case Reviewer

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  5. theplaidfad

    theplaidfad Lurker

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    I found Fossi on hardforum.

    Seriously though, why is everyone all over Elon in a bad way now? Super-rich genius who everyone keeps shitting on when he wants to do seemingly good things. Do you all want a super villain? Because this is how you get one.
     
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  6. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    one day elon will say fuck it, fuck them and build a base station on the moon with frickin lasers.

    yC2fHES.jpg
     
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  7. PaulP

    PaulP Gawd

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    They are either people that feel threatened by him, like Fossi, or they are jealous of him. Either way, it's not healthy.
     
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  8. Paladin21

    Paladin21 Gawd

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    So the real question is, did he do this as an investment strategy itself (ie, is he badmouthing Tesla to help his short positions pay off), or is he genuinely bullish on oil and says things about Tesla because he thinks the electric car market isn't a starter (and badmouths Tesla as an extension of his beliefs). One of these is a case with the SEC, the other is just someone who's Internet-famous (sortof) doing his thing. Maybe the courts will decide?
     
  9. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    He might promise that.
     
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  10. guitarslingerchris

    guitarslingerchris Failure is just success rounded down

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    This thread title gave me a seriously hard time trying to understand it.
     
  11. toast0

    toast0 Gawd

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    Lol. Elon gets a lot of hate for the same reason Jobs gets a lot of hate; they both attract a reality distortion field, and it's tiresome to deal with that. Elon also seems to have a hard time not saying dumb things on twitter and elsewhere. I wish Elon well in his endeavors, but if he'd stop telling us about how he's changing the world, and just focus on actually making some cars and rockets and underwater sub things and solar roofs and big ass tunnels, we might focus less on the upcoming cash crunch. :)
     
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  12. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    slowly but surely he is changing the world. people need to work with him not get in his way.
     
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  13. theplaidfad

    theplaidfad Lurker

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    I found Elon on hardforum :D
     
  14. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Twitter and other social media platforms have abetted the rise of frauds who spread lies. Kudo's to this piece of shit getting outed.
     
  15. Babbster

    Babbster [H]ard|Gawd

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    The intent seems pretty clear when the investor is hiding their identity while badmouthing threats to their investment portfolio. This guy should have the SEC up his ass with a microscope.
     
  16. Geni

    Geni n00b

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    I listened to an investment podcast the other day that actually interviewed 'Montana skeptic', he came across as enthusiastic for the electric car industry but was of the view that Tesla was just about out of time before the rest of the car industry muscled into the EV market, putting significant pressure on Tesla future growth and potential for profitability, which is what their crazy market valuation is based on. He even actively discouraged investors from shorting Tesla, and described his own position as 'tiny'.

    I have to say, as someone who would buy a model s at the drop of a hat of I had the money, I couldn't disagree with his points.
     
  17. Ritorix

    Ritorix [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is the same asshole that attacked a positive Tesla3 reviewer the other day to the point where the victim deleted his twitter account. Maybe that spurred some doxxing.
     
  18. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

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    The hell we don't. Tesla gets sued all the time from people who think everything Musk says is a promise instead of a best case scenario (even though he disclaims it at the time [except on Twitter]). I'm just gunna have to assume you were being sarcastic now, and if so, well played.
     
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  19. Prisoner849

    Prisoner849 Gawd

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    Or maintaining a healthy level of skepticism to keep everyone honest. Fanbois and haters are pretty much equal in this sense; both need moderation.
     
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  20. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    Give a lot of people close to 5 billion dollars and they can make a decent car company.
     
  21. theplaidfad

    theplaidfad Lurker

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    1. People aren't just given 5 billion dollars.
    2. I bet you that a lot more of those people that "were given 5 billion dollars" would blow it all on bullshit than not.
    3. Na bruh.
     
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  22. Krazy925

    Krazy925 2[H]4U

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    Looks like a pedo to me.

    Oh right that wasn’t projection /s
     
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  23. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think you understood my post. I'm not saying most people wouldn't screw it up... but a large percentage of the population could create quite a lot with 5 billion of free money.

    And he was given 5 billion.


    *5ish billion
     
  24. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    who gave him $5B?
     
  25. theplaidfad

    theplaidfad Lurker

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    Believe me when I tell you that I understood your post. Also believe me when I offer you my sincerest apology for not better helping you to understand my reply.
     
  26. Isn't this John Galt?
     
  27. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    maybe he'll be elons insperation
     
  28. mkrohn

    mkrohn 2[H]4U

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  29. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    US taxpayers
     
  30. CombatChrisNC

    CombatChrisNC [H]ard|Gawd

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    As far as I can tell, the DoE issued Tesla a ~$500 million (1/10th the claimed $5B) loan which was paid back with interest.
     
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  31. theplaidfad

    theplaidfad Lurker

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    Hey, you get out of here with those facts.
     
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  32. SPARTAN VI

    SPARTAN VI [H]ardness Supreme

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    Verge is referring to the roughly $4.9B in tax credits, rebates, loans, and grants from a variety of state and federal sources.

    Source is LA Times, so fist full of salt and all that.

    Not going to get dragged into this argument though. I don't agree with the idea that there's a "large" percentage of people who could have done the same. In this reality, Elon Musk did it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  33. macksomerville

    macksomerville [H]ard|Gawd

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    HMMM... I thought you were going to name some of the H-news writers as the real culprit. ;
     
  34. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    so he wasn't given $5B?
     
  35. SGTGimpy

    SGTGimpy Limp Gawd

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    You do realize tax incentives, exemptions, rebates and credits are not money or any type of loan right? It is just guaranteed tax breaks at the end of the year or for however long it is agreed upon. You are not given any kind of money in hand. This is not special to Tesla either. Every large corporation works out tax breaks where ever they are at. To Name one, NCR pick up their whole 4 city block campus from Dayton OH and moved to Atlanta, GA for tax incentives. So pointing out Telsa and saying they were given all this money is not fair or correct.

    Also you forgot to mention that Elon did dump a shit tons of his own money to keep SpaceX and Tesla afloat in 2008 and I believe if shit did work out as it did. That would have been bust for both companies as well as himself.
     
  36. SPARTAN VI

    SPARTAN VI [H]ardness Supreme

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    FFS, I was just posting what Verge was referring to since he didn't cite his source. Don't try to educate me in cash flows, treasury management, and finance.. I do it for a living. Argue with Verge, I even said in that same quote I don't agree with him.
     
  37. CombatChrisNC

    CombatChrisNC [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well I'LL say thank you for posting the numbers.
     
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  38. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Good, good riddance to "career liar" scum, no shock that he worked for an oil firm, but sad that so many suckers followed his advice so blindly, the blind leading the blind.

    They would often post lies and then circle promote/support each-other on such "findings" to create a false narrative, then attempt to sell to any gullible or opportunistic entity that would fall for it. Sounds familiar?

    They even drove a Pulitzer prize Wallstreet writer off Twitter with bullying for daring to post a positive review on the recent Model 3 at such a crucial time for shorts.

    That's just getting out of hand:
    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...r-dan-neil-to-deletion-of-his-twitter.123162/
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-review-wsj-dan-neil-twitter/
    dan-neil-wsj-m3p-1.jpg
    (More pages in the article prior to writer's closing of his account due to bullying, goes on for pages)

    And I'm not surprised the firm made the stock manipulating big wig cease such activities, as this could bring major legal liabilities (felony?) to the oil-invested firm in attempting, by extension, to manipulate stock for own corporate gain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  39. PaulP

    PaulP Gawd

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    I was simply answering the question of why so many people are hating on Elon, so your response makes no sense in that context; hate <> "healthy skepticism". The haters hate mainly for the reasons I stated.
     
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