Tesla Troll and Short Doxed as Heavily Invested in Oil Industry

Megalith

Megalith

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“Montana Skeptic,” a Seeking Alpha contributor who some consider to be one of Tesla’s biggest anonymous trolls and shorts, was recently doxed: his real identity is Lawrence Fossi, an investment manager who happens to be heavily invested in the oil industry. The critic has opted to stop writing about Tesla after CEO Elon Musk contacted his place of work and threatened to sue.

Fossi has often pushed narratives about Tesla that have been proven to be completely wrong. For example, he predicted that Tesla would deliver fewer than 18,000 Model X’s in 2016. Not only was he wrong by about 40%, but he claimed that the limitation would be demand when it was in fact production, which was limited during the first half of the year.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only source for the information that "Tesla contacted this guy's place of work and threatened to sue"...is the troll himself, yes? We haven't gotten any independent third party corroboration that "Musk called this guy's boss up and threatened to sue"?

Now, I could easily see Musk calling up and complaining to this guy's boss, it seems like the sort of thing ol' Elon would do, but let's just say that anything "Montana Skeptic" says at this point I wouldn't exactly take as gospel truth...
 
toast0 said:
To be fair, Musk has often pushed narratives about Tesla that have been wrong (production targets, dates in general), but we don't see people contacting his place of work and threatening to sue. :)
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I found Fossi on hardforum.

Seriously though, why is everyone all over Elon in a bad way now? Super-rich genius who everyone keeps shitting on when he wants to do seemingly good things. Do you all want a super villain? Because this is how you get one.
 
one day elon will say fuck it, fuck them and build a base station on the moon with frickin lasers.

yC2fHES.jpg
 
theplaidfad said:
I found Fossi on hardforum.

Seriously though, why is everyone all over Elon in a bad way now? Super-rich genius who everyone keeps shitting on when he wants to do seemingly good things. Do you all want a super villain? Because this is how you get one.
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They are either people that feel threatened by him, like Fossi, or they are jealous of him. Either way, it's not healthy.
 
So the real question is, did he do this as an investment strategy itself (ie, is he badmouthing Tesla to help his short positions pay off), or is he genuinely bullish on oil and says things about Tesla because he thinks the electric car market isn't a starter (and badmouths Tesla as an extension of his beliefs). One of these is a case with the SEC, the other is just someone who's Internet-famous (sortof) doing his thing. Maybe the courts will decide?
 
theplaidfad said:
I found Fossi on hardforum.

Seriously though, why is everyone all over Elon in a bad way now? Super-rich genius who everyone keeps shitting on when he wants to do seemingly good things. Do you all want a super villain? Because this is how you get one.
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Lol. Elon gets a lot of hate for the same reason Jobs gets a lot of hate; they both attract a reality distortion field, and it's tiresome to deal with that. Elon also seems to have a hard time not saying dumb things on twitter and elsewhere. I wish Elon well in his endeavors, but if he'd stop telling us about how he's changing the world, and just focus on actually making some cars and rockets and underwater sub things and solar roofs and big ass tunnels, we might focus less on the upcoming cash crunch. :)
 
Twitter and other social media platforms have abetted the rise of frauds who spread lies. Kudo's to this piece of shit getting outed.
 
Paladin21 said:
So the real question is, did he do this as an investment strategy itself (ie, is he badmouthing Tesla to help his short positions pay off), or is he genuinely bullish on oil and says things about Tesla because he thinks the electric car market isn't a starter (and badmouths Tesla as an extension of his beliefs). One of these is a case with the SEC, the other is just someone who's Internet-famous (sortof) doing his thing. Maybe the courts will decide?
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The intent seems pretty clear when the investor is hiding their identity while badmouthing threats to their investment portfolio. This guy should have the SEC up his ass with a microscope.
 
Paladin21 said:
So the real question is, did he do this as an investment strategy itself (ie, is he badmouthing Tesla to help his short positions pay off), or is he genuinely bullish on oil and says things about Tesla because he thinks the electric car market isn't a starter (and badmouths Tesla as an extension of his beliefs). One of these is a case with the SEC, the other is just someone who's Internet-famous (sortof) doing his thing. Maybe the courts will decide?
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I listened to an investment podcast the other day that actually interviewed 'Montana skeptic', he came across as enthusiastic for the electric car industry but was of the view that Tesla was just about out of time before the rest of the car industry muscled into the EV market, putting significant pressure on Tesla future growth and potential for profitability, which is what their crazy market valuation is based on. He even actively discouraged investors from shorting Tesla, and described his own position as 'tiny'.

I have to say, as someone who would buy a model s at the drop of a hat of I had the money, I couldn't disagree with his points.
 
This is the same asshole that attacked a positive Tesla3 reviewer the other day to the point where the victim deleted his twitter account. Maybe that spurred some doxxing.
 
toast0 said:
To be fair, Musk has often pushed narratives about Tesla that have been wrong (production targets, dates in general), but we don't see people contacting his place of work and threatening to sue. :)
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The hell we don't. Tesla gets sued all the time from people who think everything Musk says is a promise instead of a best case scenario (even though he disclaims it at the time [except on Twitter]). I'm just gunna have to assume you were being sarcastic now, and if so, well played.
 
PaulP said:
They are either people that feel threatened by him, like Fossi, or they are jealous of him. Either way, it's not healthy.
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Or maintaining a healthy level of skepticism to keep everyone honest. Fanbois and haters are pretty much equal in this sense; both need moderation.
 
theplaidfad said:
I found Fossi on hardforum.

Seriously though, why is everyone all over Elon in a bad way now? Super-rich genius who everyone keeps shitting on when he wants to do seemingly good things. Do you all want a super villain? Because this is how you get one.
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Give a lot of people close to 5 billion dollars and they can make a decent car company.
 
theplaidfad said:
1. People aren't just given 5 billion dollars.
2. I bet you that a lot more of those people that "were given 5 billion dollars" would blow it all on bullshit than not.
3. Na bruh.
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I don't think you understood my post. I'm not saying most people wouldn't screw it up... but a large percentage of the population could create quite a lot with 5 billion of free money.

And he was given 5 billion.


*5ish billion
 
Verge said:
I don't think you understood my post. I'm not saying most people wouldn't screw it up... but a large percentage of the population could create quite a lot with 5 billion of free money.

And he was given 5 billion.


*5ish billion
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who gave him $5B?
 
Verge said:
I don't think you understood my post. I'm not saying most people wouldn't screw it up... but a large percentage of the population could create quite a lot with 5 billion of free money.

And he was given 5 billion.


*5ish billion
Click to expand...

Believe me when I tell you that I understood your post. Also believe me when I offer you my sincerest apology for not better helping you to understand my reply.
 
Verge is referring to the roughly $4.9B in tax credits, rebates, loans, and grants from a variety of state and federal sources.

Source is LA Times, so fist full of salt and all that.

TESLA MOTORS: $2.391 billion total
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$1.29 billion — Nevada tax incentives for Gigafactory

$45 million — Value of discounted Department of Energy loan

$90 million — California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority

$517.2 million — Sale of California and other regulatory credits

$284 million — Estimated value of federal income tax credits for eligible U.S. buyers of Model S sedans

$38 million — Value of California rebate for California buyers of Model S sedans

$126 million — California Self-Generation Incentive Program

$647,626 — California job training reimbursement

SOLARCITY: $2.516 billion total

$750 million — New York State cost to build solar panel factory

$1.5 billion — Estimated value of 30% subsidy for solar installation since 2006, including at least $497 million in Treasury grants

$5.6 million — Oregon tax credits and rebates

$260 million — New York local property tax exemptions

SPACE EXPLORATION TECHNOLOGIES: $20 million total

$20 million — Texas state and local incentives and rebates for space launch facility near Brownsville
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Not going to get dragged into this argument though. I don't agree with the idea that there's a "large" percentage of people who could have done the same. In this reality, Elon Musk did it.
 
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SPARTAN VI said:
Verge is referring to the roughly $4.9B in tax credits, rebates, loans, and grants from a variety of state and federal sources.

Source is LA Times, so fist full of salt and all that.



Not going to get dragged into this argument though. I don't agree with the idea that there's a "large" percentage of people who could have done the same. In this reality, Elon Musk did it.
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You do realize tax incentives, exemptions, rebates and credits are not money or any type of loan right? It is just guaranteed tax breaks at the end of the year or for however long it is agreed upon. You are not given any kind of money in hand. This is not special to Tesla either. Every large corporation works out tax breaks where ever they are at. To Name one, NCR pick up their whole 4 city block campus from Dayton OH and moved to Atlanta, GA for tax incentives. So pointing out Telsa and saying they were given all this money is not fair or correct.

Also you forgot to mention that Elon did dump a shit tons of his own money to keep SpaceX and Tesla afloat in 2008 and I believe if shit did work out as it did. That would have been bust for both companies as well as himself.
 
SGTGimpy said:
You do realize tax incentives, exemptions, rebates and credits are not money or any type of loan right? It is just guaranteed tax breaks at the end of the year or for however long it is agreed upon. You are not given any kind of money in hand. This is not special to Tesla either. Every large corporation works out tax breaks where ever they are at. To Name one, NCR pick up their whole 4 city block campus from Dayton OH and moved to Atlanta, GA for tax incentives. So pointing out Telsa and saying they were given all this money is not fair or correct.

Also you forgot to mention that Elon did dump a shit tons of his own money to keep SpaceX and Tesla afloat in 2008 and I believe if shit did work out as it did. That would have been bust for both companies as well as himself.
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FFS, I was just posting what Verge was referring to since he didn't cite his source. Don't try to educate me in cash flows, treasury management, and finance.. I do it for a living. Argue with Verge, I even said in that same quote I don't agree with him.
 
SPARTAN VI said:
FFS, I was just posting what Verge was referring to since he didn't cite his source. Don't try to educate me in cash flows, treasury management, and finance.. I do it for a living. Argue with Verge, I even said in that same quote I don't agree with him.
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Well I'LL say thank you for posting the numbers.
 
Good, good riddance to "career liar" scum, no shock that he worked for an oil firm, but sad that so many suckers followed his advice so blindly, the blind leading the blind.

They would often post lies and then circle promote/support each-other on such "findings" to create a false narrative, then attempt to sell to any gullible or opportunistic entity that would fall for it. Sounds familiar?

They even drove a Pulitzer prize Wallstreet writer off Twitter with bullying for daring to post a positive review on the recent Model 3 at such a crucial time for shorts.

That's just getting out of hand:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...r-dan-neil-to-deletion-of-his-twitter.123162/
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-performance-review-wsj-dan-neil-twitter/
dan-neil-wsj-m3p-1.jpg

(More pages in the article prior to writer's closing of his account due to bullying, goes on for pages)

And I'm not surprised the firm made the stock manipulating big wig cease such activities, as this could bring major legal liabilities (felony?) to the oil-invested firm in attempting, by extension, to manipulate stock for own corporate gain.
 
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Prisoner849 said:
Or maintaining a healthy level of skepticism to keep everyone honest. Fanbois and haters are pretty much equal in this sense; both need moderation.
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I was simply answering the question of why so many people are hating on Elon, so your response makes no sense in that context; hate <> "healthy skepticism". The haters hate mainly for the reasons I stated.
 
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