System shuts down suddenly while gaming - board issue?

Phaethar

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Hey all,

Having a very frustrating PC issue lately. It has suddenly started shutting down suddenly while gaming. It will run all day just fine, but if I'm playing something that's putting load on the system, it's like someone pulls the plug. No crash, no blue screen, etc. Screen goes black, case lights all shut off, it's completely down and dark. After 5 or so seconds, it powers back on and boots up normally.

My first thought was power supply. It was under warranty still, so I contacted Corsair about it and they replaced it. Seemed good for a while, but while playing tonight it's shut down 3-4 times over a couple hours.

Relevant system specs:
Intel i9-10900K CPU
Asus Maximus XII Hero
32GB G-Skill Memory
Asus 2080Ti Strix
Corsair HX1000i PS (brand new)
Sound Blaster AE-5 Plus
Corsair H115i Platinum AIO
Win10 Pro

Most of the parts in it are less than a year old, and the PS is barely a week old after being replaced. No help unfortunately.

I did have the CPU OC'd to 5.1 GHz, but I've set it back to stock to see if it helped. Again, no luck. I updated the BIOS on the mainboard over the weekend while I was setting the CPU speed back down, just in case it was related to that. But again, this combo had been running totally solid for around 8 months prior to this, and running at stock speeds also did not help anything.

I'm honestly at a bit of a loss as to what to try next. It's just going down so quick and suddenly, there are no logs or anything to check. Windows just complains that the previous shutdown was unexpected, which makes sense. The system is connected to an APC UPS. Nothing is actually losing power (monitors are still on, modem stays on, etc) so I don't think it's the UPS or related to input power at all. No overload alarms from the UPS or anything either.

I'm thinking it's likely related to the motherboard, but I don't have any way of testing that other than replacing it. I may try and see if Asus will do an advance RMA for it once their chat is available tomorrow.

Any other thoughts on what else could be going on?
 

Phaethar

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DVOM on one of the molex connectors make sure 12V, rail isn't sagging below 11.85.
No meter unfortunately. I could maybe see the original PS having an issue, as it was over 6 years old. But after replacing it with a brand new one, I'd be pretty surprised if that had the same issue, especially with a pretty high end unit like this.
 

learners permit

Limp Gawd
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Download this and run it on maximum at least it'll isolate the failing subsystem for you unless it's a power issue. HW info is quite accurate for monitoring PSU rail voltages btw.
 

Nasgul

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vegeta535

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Sounds like a PSU issue. It might not be handling power spikes and tripping built in protections prematurely. The recall is for the 1200w units but I would check out a different PSU if you can to confirm it is the psu.
 

Phaethar

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It does sound like a PSU issue for sure, which is why I replaced that first. Could the 10900K and 2080ti all of a sudden be drawing too much peak power for the HX1000i to handle? Chasing down a higher end PSU than this appears to be tough right now. All the high end models are pretty sold out.

I did try and reproduce the shut down issue outside of World of Warcraft, which is the only place I see this happen.I ran through tons of stress test and 3dmark loops last night, all rock solid. Even WoW can be fine for extended periods, but trying to raid last night triggered at least 4 shutdowns.

Also still unsure if something else isn't going on besides power. I've been trying to get a full memtest loop to finish, but it just won't. I'll start it up, and within about 15 seconds Windows becomes unresponsive. Doesn't shut down, and I'll still have a cursor, but that's about it. Everything else disappears off the screen and I have to do a hard reboot.

Tried the WIndows memory diagnostic again last night too. Set it to run before heading to bed, and came down this morning to find out that it had locked up there too. No errors detected, just locked up. Tried turning down memory speeds from the XMP profile to just DDR4-2133, but still no luck.

So now I have an issue where playing 1 game causes my PC to shut down, but I can't reproduce outside of that. Memory tests fail to run, but don't actually find any errors with the memory. It's clearly having an issue somewhere. So do I try and chase down a PSU? Do I have bad memory? A bad memory controller? All of these issues appear to be snowballing all of a sudden.
 

Kardonxt

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Try creating bootable memtest86 media and running that instead of anything windows based. If you still have lockups then try 1 stick at a time.

Make sure to keep an eye on your temps \ actual clock speeds. I assume you are but haven't seen it mentioned. Although I believe overheating would have indicated a thermal shutdown event in device manager.

You may also want to try plugging directly into the outlet or a standard power strip. I have seen UPSs cause similar issues in the past.
 

DejaWiz

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Start testing with only 1 DIMM installed at a time, set to default settings for the RAM specific settings in your UEFI/BIOS.
If the test fails on each and every DIMM, then it's either all bad DIMMs (rare, but not unheard of) or on to the next component to identify another possible culprit.

Try the Intel PDT, if you haven't already:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005567/processors.html

Take the advice about the PSU recall and reach out to Corsair to see if your serial number is affected.

Reseat everything - MoBo power connectors, Sound Blaster, GPU and GPU power connectors, SATA cables, NVMe drive(s), etc.
 

Phaethar

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Memory tests all pass when running memtest86 from a bootable drive. Ran each DIMM through their own tests, and then put them both back in at the same time with XMP enabled and ran through a few passes and everything comes back clean.

I'm trying to find a way to reproduce the error in a way that doesn't involve requiring 20+ people in a WoW raid. So far, I've been unable to get it to happen outside of those circumstances though. Stress tests, benchmarks, other games, etc. All run without issue. I did also run the Intel PDT, which also passed all tests.

Regarding temps, yes, I have been watching them. If I stress test the CPU it will hit 70C, but that's with all cores at 100%. Normal gaming and usage puts it in the 40s and 50s. Especially WoW, since it's primarily single threaded still, it's running 1 CPU at 100% while most of the rest aren't doing much.

GPU temps also will get to around 70C during benchmarks or stressful games, but generally run in the 50s and 60s.

At this point, my best guesses for the cause are:
- PSU. Was just replaced last week, but having the same issue across 2 PSUs makes me less likely to think this is the issue.
- Motherboard. Still wondering if there is a possible issue with the board and power delivery that's coming up under certain circumstances.

I'm not sure what else. It's definitely a power issue, but the system isn't losing power. The BIOS is set to stay powered off in the event of power loss, so the fact that it's coming back up tells me that something weird with power delivery is going on. Whether it's from the PSU (both of them I've tried), or the mainboard, I'm not sure.

I can try taking everything apart and putting it back together, but honestly at that point I'm tempted to also try replacing the motherboard too.
 

Azrak

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When you swapped in the new PSU, did you use the same cables? Try using the new PSU's cables instead of the originals. Also make sure you are using 2 PCIe power cables to the GPU.
Try removing the sound card temporarily to see if the shutdowns still occur.
Finally, and as a last resort, try another PSU brand/model. It could be that this particular PSU model line is sensitive to the load spikes your setup is demanding.
 

pendragon1

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try a different psu brand, not corsair, silverstone or something else. there are a handfuls of threads around here where their psu protection is tripping.
 

Phaethar

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When you swapped in the new PSU, did you use the same cables? Try using the new PSU's cables instead of the originals. Also make sure you are using 2 PCIe power cables to the GPU.
Try removing the sound card temporarily to see if the shutdowns still occur.
Finally, and as a last resort, try another PSU brand/model. It could be that this particular PSU model line is sensitive to the load spikes your setup is demanding.
I did replace all of the cables running to the mainboard and GPU. I didn't replace the SATA power cables though, they would have been a huge pain to re-run.
I wasn't using 2 PCIE power cables before, but I did just install the second one now and run it. I'd heard it wasn't necessary to do separate cables any longer now that modern power supplies use a single 12V rail instead of multiple, but no big deal to run another one. Yay for modular cables!

And yeah, I've been looking for a different PSU brand/model to try. It's tough finding something comparable for a reasonable price. I'd like to stick with a good brand, but finding a 1000W modular platinum model for under $500 right now seems to be really difficult. Any suggestions? (I know it doesn't need all of those, but I'd prefer and not downgrade if possible)
 
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Azrak

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I did replace all of the cables running to the mainboard and GPU. I didn't replace the SATA power cables though, they would have been a huge pain to re-run.
I wasn't using 2 PCIE power cables before, but I did just install the second one now and run it.

And yeah, I've been looking for a different PSU brand/model to try. It's tough finding something comparable for a reasonable price. I'd like to stick with a good brand, but finding a 1000W modular platinum model for under $500 right now seems to be really difficult. Any suggestions? (I know it doesn't need all of those, but I'd prefer and not downgrade if possible)
Yeah, I hear you.
There is this Super Flower 1000W Platinum model: https://www.newegg.com/super-flower-leadex-platinum-se-sf-1000f14mp-v2-1000w/p/1HU-024C-00020
I'm a Seasonic guy myself, but with no other choice I wouldn't be opposed to getting a Super Flower like that one. They've been around for ages and are generally considered decent quality.
 

pendragon1

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I'd like to stick with a good brand, but finding a 1000W modular platinum model for under $500 right now seems to be really difficult.
amazon has several good brands with those requirements for under $300. evga, antec, silverstone, be quiet.
 

Azrak

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Also, are you using both CPU power connectors at the top of the motherboard? There is the 8pin+4pin. Try plugging both in if you aren't already.
 

Phaethar

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Interesting, I've never really heard of Super Flower until very recently, I'll take a look.

Veering way into PSU discussion now, but I've always considered Antec, Silverstone, etc to be B tier quality, behind the Seasonic, Corsair, and EVGA brands. Maybe I need to read up on some of their more recent stuff though.

Also, looks like Newegg has some of the higher end EVGA units in stock for around $300. Man, I used to buy from there all the time, but haven't really looked there much the last couple years. May have to give that a shot...

Yup, using both 8 and 4 pin CPU connectors on the motherboard.
 
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Starfalcon

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Super Flower was the OEM for a lot of the high end EVGA PSUs, plus you can buy PSUs under their name now also.
 

GotNoRice

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I'm trying to find a way to reproduce the error in a way that doesn't involve requiring 20+ people in a WoW raid. So far, I've been unable to get it to happen outside of those circumstances though. Stress tests, benchmarks, other games, etc. All run without issue. I did also run the Intel PDT, which also passed all tests.

Regarding temps, yes, I have been watching them. If I stress test the CPU it will hit 70C, but that's with all cores at 100%. Normal gaming and usage puts it in the 40s and 50s. Especially WoW, since it's primarily single threaded still, it's running 1 CPU at 100% while most of the rest aren't doing much.

It would be easy enough to queue for an LFR raid just to test it. But yeah, WoW is not a game that is going to stress your PSU. For the longest time WoW used about 1-1.5 cores, now with the DX12 improvements, it's more like 1-3 cores. CPU usage is so low on a multi-core CPU that I was still able to play WoW on my 5820k using my H100i GTX AIO even after most of the coolant dried up. Any type of CPU stress test would cause a BSOD due to temps but I could still play WoW using basically nothing but the waterblock as cooling. That obviously means the CPU wasn't using much power either.

WoW does use plenty of GPU power though, especially at a high resolution using max settings. One thing you might try is capping your max FPS, which can be done in the advanced video settings. Start with FPS capped at like 30fps, which will obviously greatly reduce your GPU load. If you get no shutdown, gradually raise the FPS cap. Also, are you monitoring your GPU temps?
 

Phaethar

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It would be easy enough to queue for an LFR raid just to test it. But yeah, WoW is not a game that is going to stress your PSU. For the longest time WoW used about 1-1.5 cores, now with the DX12 improvements, it's more like 1-3 cores. CPU usage is so low on a multi-core CPU that I was still able to play WoW on my 5820k using my H100i GTX AIO even after most of the coolant dried up. Any type of CPU stress test would cause a BSOD due to temps but I could still play WoW using basically nothing but the waterblock as cooling. That obviously means the CPU wasn't using much power either.

WoW does use plenty of GPU power though, especially at a high resolution using max settings. One thing you might try is capping your max FPS, which can be done in the advanced video settings. Start with FPS capped at like 30fps, which will obviously greatly reduce your GPU load. If you get no shutdown, gradually raise the FPS cap. Also, are you monitoring your GPU temps?

Yeah, I actually did just that last night. Did the fight that really seems to trigger it on LFR yesterday and of course, no issues. Regular guild raid night again tonight, so we'll see what happens there. Agreed on CPU usage though. I think 1 core runs at 100% while playing, and 1 or 2 others may do something, but not much. That's what makes this so frustrating though. Why does WoW of all things trigger it? I can run stress tests for hours just fine. 3dmark ray tracing benchmarks? Loop it for a while, no issue. Cinebench and other CPU stress tests that push all 10C/20T to 100%? No problem. But a WoW raid? That's somehow too much.

I do have everything cranked up graphically, including shadows and ray tracing. I am kinda wondering if there is something about the fights that have been triggering the shut downs, and if it's causing some kind of huge power draw spike from the GPU or something. I did run a second PCIE power cord from the PSU to the GPU last night as I was only using 1 before. Shouldn't make a difference, but maybe it will end up helping? Did some reading last night and came across this article about using 1 or 2 PCIE power cables, and 1 thing stood out:

It can also be the case that even if your computer works normally, it suddenly turns off when you demand a lot of it graphically, that is, when the GPU is set to 100%. Sometimes this happens because the cable is overloaded, and as with the Coil Whine it is solved by simply connecting each PCIe connector on the graphics card with a PCIe cable from the source individually.

Also, I am watching temps, but wasn't logging them to a file the other night. I am now, so if I get the shut downs again tonight I will hopefully have some logs to see if anything stands out. Generally, GPU temps are in the 50s and 60s while gaming, with some pushing to about 70C. Nothing too crazy for a 2080Ti. I do have a custom fan curve on it that will crank up the fan speed as the temp rises, and that has the fans going pretty fast by the time it hits 70C.

I do also have the power limit on the GPU cranked up to the max (and have had it like that for almost 2 years now too). If it shuts down again tonight, I may lower that too. If it still shuts down after that, it may be time to get a bit more drastic.
 

Phaethar

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I managed to get an order in for an EVGA SuperNOVA P2 1000W PSU at Newegg. Won't be here until next week, but hoping that addresses the issue. Wish I could have gotten the 1200W, even though 1000W should be more than enough, just to give myself a bit more headroom.

I'll probably turn the power limit down on my GPU too for now, just in case. Hopefully that will get me through the next week or so without any shutdowns until the new PSU is here.
 

criccio

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Sheesh, I was worried about my 3090/5800x system with my little SF750 but so far so good after a few weeks. Not really overclocking anything outside of PBO doing it's thing though.
 

pendragon1

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I managed to get an order in for an EVGA SuperNOVA P2 1000W PSU at Newegg. Won't be here until next week, but hoping that addresses the issue. Wish I could have gotten the 1200W, even though 1000W should be more than enough, just to give myself a bit more headroom.

I'll probably turn the power limit down on my GPU too for now, just in case. Hopefully that will get me through the next week or so without any shutdowns until the new PSU is here.
you wont ever need a 1200w unless you have multiple gpus for rendering. mpgu is dead and nothing is going to suck that much juice anymore. i would, until the new unit arrives.
 

Phaethar

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you wont ever need a 1200w unless you have multiple gpus for rendering. mpgu is dead and nothing is going to suck that much juice anymore. i would, until the new unit arrives.
Oh yeah, I know. There’s just a part of me that says “Well, if I’m somehow hitting a limit on my current 1000W PSU, then throw more power at it”. Most calculators put me at about 650W max draw, so 1000W should be more than enough.

I disabled ray tracing in WoW and set my GPU back to stock. Fingers crossed for a stable night tonight!
 

pendragon1

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Oh yeah, I know. There’s just a part of me that says “Well, if I’m somehow hitting a limit on my current 1000W PSU, then throw more power at it”. Most calculators put me at about 650W max draw, so 1000W should be more than enough.

I disabled ray tracing in WoW and set my GPU back to stock. Fingers crossed for a stable night tonight!
its not hitting the limit. the OCP it tripping when it shouldnt(third or fourth time ive said it). your system only needs a 850w.
 

Nasgul

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At this point, my best guesses for the cause are:
- PSU. Was just replaced last week, but having the same issue across 2 PSUs makes me less likely to think this is the issue.
- Motherboard. Still wondering if there is a possible issue with the board and power delivery that's coming up under certain circumstances.

Hey, let me ask you this, did you plug the two 8-pin power connector for the CPU on the motherboard (or just one)?
 

Priller

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It does sound like a PSU problem but the fact you're already on the 2nd PSU, changed cables, updated bios, removed CPU OC, etc and still having the same issue is strange.

Other then taking it off the UPS and RMAing the motherboard. Nothing is a dead give away to the cause other then what seems like an UCP/OCP trip.
 

chithanh

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If you suspect that it is the PSU, rather than removing overclocks try disabling low power states of your CPU. When PSUs go bad, it is often the worsening transient response to load changes which trips the system.

It could also be the electric wiring in your home which is lacking, or you have neighbors who create electrical noise. Maybe try plugging the computer in another room that is closer to the main circuit breaker? Or you can go over to a nearby friend's/family member's house and try to reproduce the problem there.
 

sabrewolf732

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Being that it's a new PSU I doubt it's psu, sounds like something is drawing way too much current/spiking. I would also say to disable the turbo or whatever it's called for intel and see if it fixes the issue. I'd also use both CPU aux power cables and see if that fixes it as well.
 

Nasgul

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Maybe one of the memory modules is going bad? The more I keep reading what can possibly cause a computer crash, the more it seems like you should buy a 2nd system as well and troubleshoot one piece of hardware at a time. Just read about some guy having issues with his system and it turned out to be the RAM and it only crashes while playing games.
.
Personally, I don't like G.Skill RAM anymore, ever since when I set the XMP to 3,000MHz the system wouldn't boot unless I set it manually to 2,933MHz, go figure. Brand new kit too, but that annoyed me in the beginning, I forgot I don't care anymore.
 

COTA

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I had the same issue, with a core i7 4770 a gigabyte board (can't remember the model right now), a 600w corsair PSU and a GTX 1070Ti.

At first it only randomly shutdown or restarted with Warzone, so I thought it was a game or driver issue, a few days later, more games like fortnite, Crash bandicoot and SC2. Eventually almost every game had a shutdown.

I switched to a different mobo, but same results. Tried a different PSU (600w Seasonic), same results. Undervolting the video card helped a little but not entirely.
So I ended using one psu for the mobo and the other for the videocard. Voila, problem solved. It was clear both PSUs were faulty. So I got a new 700w corsair and it works great. Should be plenty once I get a RTX 3070.
 
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This problem is easy to diagnose.

In your BIOS, put a 100W PL limit on your CPU. With Afterburner or precision, put a 80% power limit on your GPU. Now you've completely capped power output. Try gaming again, if it no longer reboots, then it was OPP protection being tripped on your PSU.

Newer PSUs have higher OPP protection than in the past, because recent GPUs like Vega 64, 2080 Ti, 3080/3090 are known to have very large power spikes that can trip a PSU if their OPP limit is low. Rated wattage of the PSU is not important here, but the actual OPP limit specified by the manufacture. For example Silverstone PSUs are 1.5x the rated wattage, Seasonic are 1.33x the rated wattage, and newer Corsair PSUs are 1.24x the rated wattage.

So if you want a high OPP limit, Silverstone PSUs have a lot of leeway. So much so I was getting away with gaming on a 3090 on a 450W PSU for a short amount of time while I was waiting for a new PSU, lmao.
 
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Phaethar

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Answering a few of the questions here.

Hey, let me ask you this, did you plug the two 8-pin power connector for the CPU on the motherboard (or just one)?
Being that it's a new PSU I doubt it's psu, sounds like something is drawing way too much current/spiking. I would also say to disable the turbo or whatever it's called for intel and see if it fixes the issue. I'd also use both CPU aux power cables and see if that fixes it as well.

Yes, using both the 8-pin and 4-pin CPU power connectors.

It does sound like a PSU problem but the fact you're already on the 2nd PSU, changed cables, updated bios, removed CPU OC, etc and still having the same issue is strange.

Other then taking it off the UPS and RMAing the motherboard. Nothing is a dead give away to the cause other then what seems like an UCP/OCP trip.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. But the symptoms fit for triggering OCP, so I'm hoping the issue is that' I'm hitting Corsair's limit and a different brand PSU addresses it. That said, when this first started happening, I did reach out about an RMA for the motherboard, which is also in progress. So I will end up replacing the motherboard sometime next week as well. It is weird that this setup has been running fine since last spring and just recently starting having problems.

This problem is easy to diagnose.

In your BIOS, put a 100W PL limit on your CPU. With Afterburner or precision, put a 80% power limit on your GPU. Now you've completely capped power output. Try gaming again, if it no longer reboots, then it was OPP protection being tripped on your PSU.

Newer PSUs have higher OPP protection than in the past, because recent GPUs like Vega 64, 2080 Ti, 3080/3090 are known to have very large power spikes that can trip a PSU if their OPP limit is low. Rated wattage of the PSU is not important here, but the actual OPP limit specified by the manufacture. For example Silverstone PSUs are 1.5x the rated wattage, Seasonic are 1.33x the rated wattage, and newer Corsair PSUs are 1.24x the rated wattage.

So if you want a high OPP limit, Silverstone PSUs have a lot of leeway. So much so I was getting away with gaming on a 3090 on a 450W PSU for a short amount of time while I was waiting for a new PSU, lmao.
I did some of this yesterday. Didn't put the limit on the CPU, but I did lower the limit on the GPU. Between that lower GPU power limit, dual PCIE power cables to the GPU instead of 1, and lowering some graphics settings, I was able to get through the night last night without any shutdowns. That would seem to back up the PSU OCP thinking.

Also, good to know about the different manufacturer's OCP protection settings. Do you happen to know what EVGA is? I'm not seeing it on a quick search, but I'll keep looking.

Maybe one of the memory modules is going bad? The more I keep reading what can possibly cause a computer crash, the more it seems like you should buy a 2nd system as well and troubleshoot one piece of hardware at a time. Just read about some guy having issues with his system and it turned out to be the RAM and it only crashes while playing games.
.
Personally, I don't like G.Skill RAM anymore, ever since when I set the XMP to 3,000MHz the system wouldn't boot unless I set it manually to 2,933MHz, go figure. Brand new kit too, but that annoyed me in the beginning, I forgot I don't care anymore.
I tested each of the DIMMs by itself with multiple passes in memtest86, and then again with both installed together. All tests finished without errors.

And keep in mind, it's not really crashing here. No BSOD, CTD, or reboot. The system just completely and abruptly powers off. Full dark, everything off.


Thanks for all the feedback on this, I really appreciate it! I've been doing this for a long time, and I've never really come across something like this.
 

Zepher

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I had the same issue and swapping the PSU fixed it. I had thought my GPU was flaking out till I noticed this message on one of the restarts.

IMG_3212.JPG
 

Azrak

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For example Silverstone PSUs are 1.5x the rated wattage, Seasonic are 1.33x the rated wattage, and newer Corsair PSUs are 1.24x the rated wattage.
This the first time I've ever seen such specific metrics for OCP tripping points. Where did you get this information?
 
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This the first time I've ever seen such specific metrics for OCP tripping points. Where did you get this information?

THG, I'm guessing these are specs they get from the manufacturer, or it's something that came about from Cybernetics testing.
 
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