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System Shock 3

T

TheCommander

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
2,999
How about System Shock 3? Im just wondering why they are making a sequel to Bioshock when they could create a sequel to System Shock 2, the greatest first person shooter of all time. The ending of System Shock 2 did leave it open for one.
 
Eidos Montreal is currently working on Deus Ex 3, haven't heard anything about SS3..
 
A straight up sequel to SS2 would more than likely fail.

Think of Doom 3.
 
I don't think Doom 3 failed in the eyes of true fans of Doom, did it? The classic monster closet gameplay style was great, though the enemy count was a little low. The expansion pack captured the arcade feel pretty well.

Most of the complaints were from general fans of the genre that cynically rolled their eyes and some of the stupidness, from what I remember.

A straight up sequel to SS2 would work because it is more of a niche series. Though it depends on how they hype it and design it. If you let the general public in, like Fallout 3 or Bioshock, you are opening yourself up to failure. If you tune the hype toward the diehards, you'll do fine.
 
michealo said:
Doom 3 on the PC sold 3.5 million copies. hardly a "failure".
Click to expand...

Yep, it's just that everybody that didn't like the game came here and bitched while all of us that thought it was true to the original and a good game were busy playing it.


I would love to play a System Shock 3. SS2 kicked ass.
 
Oh I thoroughly enjoyed Doom 3. It did exactly what I expected to. I also know the sales figures supported it. However when you ask people about it, the general concensus was it failed because it was too overhyped/didn't produce what people did expect of it.

My guess with how good SS2 was and what people would be expecting of SS3, it would have the same final result Doom 3 did in the eye of the consumers.

Just like how people read the reviews of Bioshock and watched the tech demo's and immedeately set expectations that it would be the SS3...but their perceptions didn't live up to what they saw and it's genearlly regarded as a normal FPS with an interesting skin/atmosphere even though the sales figures say it was a great game.
 
I think games like Deus Ex/System Shock will just slowly get dumbed down so that the console crowd can embrace them. I'm not a pc fanboy, I have a 360, ps3 and Wii on the other side of the room, but if you look at invisible war and bioshock, you can see what I mean. I loved bioshock to bits, and I LIKED invisible war, but you could see how they were simplified, and it was the added complexity of those shooters that drew me to them in the first place.
 
Brad Gamma said:
I think games like Deus Ex/System Shock will just slowly get dumbed down so that the console crowd can embrace them. I'm not a pc fanboy, I have a 360, ps3 and Wii on the other side of the room, but if you look at invisible war and bioshock, you can see what I mean. I loved bioshock to bits, and I LIKED invisible war, but you could see how they were simplified, and it was the added complexity of those shooters that drew me to them in the first place.
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Sadly, yes. Deus Ex 2: Invisible War itself was evidence of the console transition and hopefully is not indicative of how 3 will turn out. I've read a few interviews with 3's devs, saying that the design team is going to try and stay true to the elements that made the original so great. They're designing for a super critical crowd, though; we DX fans have great expectations ...
 
Xrave said:
Oh I thoroughly enjoyed Doom 3. It did exactly what I expected to. I also know the sales figures supported it. However when you ask people about it, the general concensus was it failed because it was too overhyped/didn't produce what people did expect of it.

My guess with how good SS2 was and what people would be expecting of SS3, it would have the same final result Doom 3 did in the eye of the consumers.

Just like how people read the reviews of Bioshock and watched the tech demo's and immedeately set expectations that it would be the SS3...but their perceptions didn't live up to what they saw and it's genearlly regarded as a normal FPS with an interesting skin/atmosphere even though the sales figures say it was a great game.
Click to expand...
Hence my vague comments on tuning your hype to the audience. I didn't follow Bioshock that much, but I think they let slip the idea that it was going to have great FPS-RPG style play like SS2 and didn't shut that down quickly enough when the game went in another direction for whatever reason.

In a similar way, if they actually made a hardcore FPS-RPG and did not hype it to the "dumb" crowd (using this stereotype only for discussion purposes) then you wouldn't have as many general interest types complaining about how they hated the game. Maybe they'd have fewer sales because they wouldn't capture/sucker that "dumb" crowd, but there you go.

The other interesting thing here is that the SS2 fanbase is moderate enough that they there aren't any extreme restrictions from the fanbase like what is happening with Fallout. The SS3 developers, as long as they keep to the serious FPS RPG mechanic, aren't going to fail "from the fanbase."

A straight-up sequel to System Shock 1 and 2 would do just fine, if they handle it right. The passionate fans are moderate enough that they won't reject a close but modernized sequel, provided they don't get led down the wrong path and get a game like Bioshock.
 
As soon as you name a game System Shock 3, the expectations are unreachable. Release a game called SS3 and people will be disappointed. Release that same game under a different name, and you'll get much better reviews.
 
Jynio said:
As soon as you name a game System Shock 3, the expectations are unreachable. Release a game called SS3 and people will be disappointed. Release that same game under a different name, and you'll get much better reviews.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
Fallout 3. Should call it something else and less would complain.
 
TheCommander said:
How about System Shock 3? Im just wondering why they are making a sequel to Bioshock when they could create a sequel to System Shock 2, the greatest first person shooter of all time. The ending of System Shock 2 did leave it open for one.
Click to expand...

The reason they can't make a sequel to System Shock 2 is because they don't have the rights to make one.

Irrational (Now 2k Boston), makers of Bioshock and SS2 don't own the rights to System Shock anymore, it's EA's franchise now.EA renewed their license on the name in 2006.You'll have to wait on Bioshock 2 which has been announced already. Or enjoy a horrendous game from EA crapping on System Shock's good name. This isn't unheard of. Oni, developed by Bungie West stuck with the publisher, Take Two, when Bungie West was bought by MS.
 
kelbear said:
The reason they can't make a sequel to System Shock 2 is because they don't have the rights to make one.

Irrational (Now 2k Boston), makers of Bioshock and SS2 don't own the rights to System Shock anymore, it's EA's franchise now.EA renewed their license on the name in 2006.You'll have to wait on Bioshock 2 which has been announced already. Or enjoy a horrendous game from EA crapping on System Shock's good name. This isn't unheard of. Oni, developed by Bungie West stuck with the publisher, Take Two, when Bungie West was bought by MS.
Click to expand...

So it has been 2 years and still nothing from EA about a SS3.
 
There's no way EA is going to license the System Shock name back to Irrational Games. EA lives and breathes for running good titles into the mud.
 
Xrave said:
A straight up sequel to SS2 would more than likely fail.

Think of Doom 3.
Click to expand...

At least SS2 was a brilliant theme. If they can recreate the mood, atmosphere, quality of sounds and gameplay, basically a revamp of SS2 in a new adventure, it would be perfect. Think Diablo. The original Diablo was good, while DiabloII was even better. They already have the blueprint, they just have to build it larger, with better ingredients.

Also Doom3 mainly 'failed' because everybody had gone bored of simple corridor shooters like doom. People discovered games that are more fun, you cant really blame the devs for that, the idea got outdated.
 
Would someone care to elaborate why SS/SS2 and DX were so good? I understand it seems to be some kind of FPS/RPG hybrid, but I would like to have more testimonials from players if possible.
Also, I don't know how old those games are but:
Should I try to play them now or are they just too old / outdated?
Do I HAVE to play SS before SS2 or can I jump to SS2 right away.
Thank you for your opinions.
 
i never played ss1, i jumped right into ss2 and it was sweet. You can get a bunch of mods for ss2 to improve the gfx a bit.

I've been meaning to try them but I have a feeling that i still wont be able to get over how dated the gfx are, but on the other hand its one of the best games i've ever played.
 
^ Good Question. I wasn't old enough at the time of SS2. I am going to either download it, or look for a copy on eBay. I have played through Bioshock.
 
I haven't played any of the System Shock series but they looked quite impressive and I might be interested in looking at SS3, assuming it ever comes out.

Deus Ex on the other hand was one of my favorite games. I tried the demo for the sequel but it just didn't do it for me like the original. The thing that made Deus Ex was the ability to completely outfit and train your character however you saw fit and use any number of game play styles. It also gave you the ability to make many choices in game that would affect the ending. I think there were 3 or 4? different endings to the original game. If they make a Deus Ex 3 and they keep it more in line with the original game, I will surely buy it.
 
I still play them both regularly. The main cool thing about them is the atmosphere. These games are among the few that can really pull you in, and even with their dated visuals, suspend disbelief. There are just some incredibly creepy moments too like hearing the last minute of someone's life via recorded logs. It's not scary in a cheap-horror sort of way either. It disturbs you with things like a hybrid attacking you, and apologizing for doing so as it smacks you with a wrench. Little touches like researching objects that can help you, etc. etc. They have plenty of replay value too.
 
For all the talk of Bioshock not being a formal sequel to SS2, the gameplay was absolutely identical, from the audio diaries to the combination locks, to the vending machines, "hacking", running around with next-to-no ammo, security cameras, security stations, the ghostly visions, gun turrets, even the plasmids and the "power to the people" machines. I loved SS2 as much as anyone (except when it moved onto the alien bit) but if Bioshock is considered even a minor let-down as spiritual successor or whatever, I can only imagine a genuine sequel would too unless they changed up the formula, and then people would just complain it wasn't the same.
 
The longer they wait to make SS3 (and its been sometime now) the less likely it will do good. Why? Because newer gamers wont know what SS1/2 were like to bother with SS3 and the ones that have played SS1/2 will either be to busy with their lives or will be disappointed with the game. Now with that said, make a SS3 game and release it as Bioshock 2 (or 3 or whatever) or call it something entirely different like Best Game in The Universe: AI's Revenge (leave a little something for us [H]ardcore fans :) ) and it will likely become an instant AAA title worthy of a few sequels.
 
Agreeing with DangerousMan, one title that comes to mind for me is Daikatana if any of you remember that game. It was in production for a very long time and when it finally came out, it was outdated by about 2-3 years and the game ended up being fairly horrible. If the game had come out a couple of years earlier, the major problems might have been forgiven as it did have some interesting elements added to it. There are some things that can be forgiven, but taking a long time to release a game that turns out to be much of the same never helps your position.
 
Gigantism said:
Would someone care to elaborate why SS/SS2 and DX were so good?
Click to expand...
System Shock 2 was just a well-polished engrossing experience. At the time, it was pretty much obsolete graphically, but the sound design and other aspects of production were absolutely top notch. The RPG elements were pretty hefty, and combat was overall pretty solid.

I think the allure of SS2 is that it felt as if it had been untouched by corporate hands. It didn't have imprints of an overseeing corporation making gameplay sacrifices to enhance marketability or make the game more attractive to a wide audience. Either you liked what it offered you or you didn't, and there weren't any consolations to those who weren't interested in a complex FPS/RPG. Today, games like that are a rarity.

Deus Ex was a bit more of the same, though a bit watered down. The level of freedom was pretty impressive though, both with respect to the number of ways a situation can be approached (feasibly, not just on paper as with other games) and the way the story forks in different directions based on your actions. Deus Ex probably came closer to making every action have some consequence than any other shooter to date.
 
The problem with Deus Ex Invisible War as I understand it was from an interview I heard from the devs. From what I remember it was a cross console release, and as a result they found themselves with limited hardware. The original Deus Ex had a lot of open environments with all sorts of options. Since they were limited by the console hardware they were forced to make a much more closed off game, which in essence very much different from the original.
 
That would make sense and it also enters into some of the other threads in these forums of how games made exclusively for the PC tend to work out much better than games that are created with multiple platforms in mind. A game made for multiple platforms has to work on all platforms, which tends to limit the options in terms of gameplay and environment.
 
Gigantism said:
Would someone care to elaborate why SS/SS2 and DX were so good? I understand it seems to be some kind of FPS/RPG hybrid, but I would like to have more testimonials from players if possible.
Also, I don't know how old those games are but:
Should I try to play them now or are they just too old / outdated?
Do I HAVE to play SS before SS2 or can I jump to SS2 right away.
Thank you for your opinions.
Click to expand...


SS2 was and still is the greatest PC game of all time.... this game literally scared the shit out of u... it created such a mood and theme ...that no game has touched it in that area ..and the varied game play..and all the different things u could do... i cant say enuff about it

SS2 is what a great game was meant 2 be.... 100% rating

Deus Ex was a great game too.... it was very similiar to SS2 but without the fear factor

i hope if there is a SS3 it doesnt ruin its great name like that pile of shit SOF3 did to the great Soldier of Fortune line
 
Xrave said:
A straight up sequel to SS2 would more than likely fail.

Think of Doom 3.
Click to expand...

Uh.. doom 3 was one of the best single player first person shooters I have ever played. In fact, it was the only game I played through twice in the past 3 years, and I've played most of the good FPS since 2004.

I have not played system shock before, however, but hearing how good ss2 was, I would consider playing a part 3 if it was released. I would also love to see ultima underworld 3.
 
Gabriel said:
Uh.. doom 3 was one of the best single player first person shooters I have ever played. In fact, it was the only game I played through twice in the past 3 years, and I've played most of the good FPS since 2004.
Click to expand...
Please read my second post.
 
I don't understand why people are so unwilling to go back and try graphically dated games they missed out on. Gameplay > Graphics any day for me, while it doesn't mean I'll go and be playing Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, or Wasteland anytime soon, SS2's graphics are not so bad that they are unbearable and they have texture packs and other mods that have enhanced them. Given a choice, I'd play SS2 again over Bioshock any day of the week. Hell, I spent hours trying to figure out how to get it to run on XP machines (affinity needs to be set to only one CPU) and if it weren't for network desyncs, we'd still be playing network coop at LAN parties to this day.

If they attempted to develop a SS3 title for the console as well as the PC it will likely suffer from the same issues that Bioshock has suffered from and it won't be the same. Doubly so since EA has the current rights to it. No one can imagine how badly mangled the final product will be if its being sent through one of EAs butchering shops. I can't see how a publisher like them can just keep plugging along and being blissfully ignorant about the steaming piles of putrid feces ridden with chunks of formerly good games which are then shrink wrapped and distributed to customers without a second thought. Every time I see a game on the shelf in a box with an EA logo on it, I can smell the shit inside and almost see it seeping through the thin cardboard. Why else do you think they switched to plastic?

I am afraid that the potential future for the SS series died with TTLG. At least I can still play the original.
 
Gigantism said:
Would someone care to elaborate why SS/SS2 and DX were so good? I understand it seems to be some kind of FPS/RPG hybrid, but I would like to have more testimonials from players if possible.
Also, I don't know how old those games are but:
Should I try to play them now or are they just too old / outdated?
Do I HAVE to play SS before SS2 or can I jump to SS2 right away.
Thank you for your opinions.
Click to expand...

I played SS2 around 2004 or 2005 for the first time. I had a blast.

Graphics suck when you look at a screenshot. But play the game, walk through the environment, hear the sound, immerse yourself in the story and eventually you forget that you're looking at graphics.

That's all graphics are really there for. They depict surroundings in the game, they just represent your bearings of the situation, then gameplay takes over and that's what makes the game memorable. Sometimes when you look back to remember these games, the graphics improve significantly because your brain and imagination fill in the gaps that the pixelated screens did not. That's when you know the game really pulled you in.

I never played SS1.

One of the more important features of SS2 was that the story was important to the FPS. This is not common, even today. There is a backstory with specific characters to keep track of. These characters were given details and following these characters became a major driving force in why you wanted to keep pushing forward. They were done with logs, primarily text, but as always, strong writing can add immense depth to a story. Characters had personalities, even throwaway characters that only occupy your time for 5 minutes of your total playtime were written believably.

Deus Ex followed suit but with less emphasis on logs, the major similarity was a combination of fps and rpg which provided advancement incentives to the gameplay. Instead of staying at a static ability level, you would want to see what new and cool things you'd be capable of later.

Doom3 copied the logbooks of SS2.

Bioshock carried on the logbook tradition, but seriously cramped down on decision-making in level progression. This was seen as an attempt to appeal to console gamers or casual gamers.

Either way, the combination of FPS/RPG was striking and the emphasis on immersion struck a chord with gamers of the time(and with me). Old games are not necessarily better than new ones, they have their problems just like the new ones, but we remember the parts that the old ones got right (and it's why new games strive to incorporate these good ideas).

""Look at you, hacker. A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?""
-----------------
"They've killed my men and now they've killed me. I'm holding my guts inside me with both hands; I'm almost done. Resist. This is bigger than my little life, the lives of my men, and the lives of the people I was forced to kill. Resist. Humanity demands it. Resist."
-----------------
"What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to the mind? Our unity is full of wonder which your tiny individualism cannot even conceive. "

-------------------
 
SS2 is incredible.
What makes it even better is the strong community that florished from the onset of this game and is still around today.

2 Mods were created that update the graphics quite a bit. The game looks excellent when using both in conjunction.

The first one is the SHTUP, Texture updates and other things.
SHTUP is a mod for System Shock 2 which aims to increase the resolution of all the common (and quite a few of the not-so-common) object textures. A secondary objective of the mod is to correct all other graphical glitches, such as typos, continuity errors, texture alignment errors, and so on. All of this is to be done while sticking as closely as possible to the original art style. Simply put, our goal is to make SS2 look like a higher-res version of itself.
Click to expand...
You can download it here, http://shtup.home.att.net

And the 2nd enhancement is called REBIRTH.
from the page:
Rebirth is an enemy model and skins update and therefor fully compatible with SHTUP, the object texture update.
Click to expand...

Rebirth is available here, http://www.strangebedfellows.de/index.php/topic,8.0.html

BTW, the Rumblers are so much more intimadating now..... Still freaks me out, backpedaling with no ammo! :eek:
 
Gigantism said:
Would someone care to elaborate why SS/SS2 and DX were so good? I understand it seems to be some kind of FPS/RPG hybrid, but I would like to have more testimonials from players if possible.
Also, I don't know how old those games are but:
Should I try to play them now or are they just too old / outdated?
Do I HAVE to play SS before SS2 or can I jump to SS2 right away.
Thank you for your opinions.
Click to expand...

You don't have to play SS1 to get into SS2 although the stories are somewhat connected. As for SS2, what makes it great is the atmosphere as well as some RPG like features in it. You can beat the game in a few different ways- straight up run and gun, using melee weapons, as a psi-ops, mix of things, etc... The game is spooky too with cyborgs, organic creatures, half-robot / half-human creatures running around. The story is also excellent and has lots of background info.
 
LeviathanZERO said:
SS2 is incredible.
What makes it even better is the strong community that florished from the onset of this game and is still around today.

2 Mods were created that update the graphics quite a bit. The game looks excellent when using both in conjunction.

The first one is the SHTUP, Texture updates and other things.

You can download it here, http://shtup.home.att.net

And the 2nd enhancement is called REBIRTH.
from the page:


Rebirth is available here, http://www.strangebedfellows.de/index.php/topic,8.0.html

BTW, the Rumblers are so much more intimadating now..... Still freaks me out, backpedaling with no ammo! :eek:
Click to expand...

What freaked me out the first time was when out of nowhere I was getting damaged and saw it was actually a monkey attacking me.
 
System Shock2, you don't need to play the first one to appreciate SS2

People just love that game, like total fanboy for that game as mentioned above there have been textures lovingly created you can download to make the game look better (more modern) In fact you got guys doing a Source retexturizing of Half life, I'd rather someone do a Source version of SS2.
but it's not the look of the game that matters as much as the atmosphere, and the control you have building your character and tinkering with your weapons. For me the game is intense. It's the scariest game I've played. Probably scarier then any horror movie I've seen. The sound design is perfect and super creepy, the plot compelling, and you have barely enough resources. Plus the damn guns keep breaking, but that just adds to the suspense.

I'd be interested in someone explaining why Bioshock isn't as good, I haven't played that yet, it has the same concept, and if anything the setting is ingenious, certainly the graphics a far superior. All I know is SS2 scared the crap out of me . I played the demo for Bioshock and will buy it soon. Is it just that Bioshock isn't as scary? I'd like to know because I keep seeing people here saying Bioshock is good, but doesn't hold a candle to SS2. (something like that.)
 
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