SW:TOR Looking to Get More Than 1M Long-Term Subscriber

All that money for a WoW clone in space with an on-rails space combat system (Why no X-Wing vs Tie Fighter). I mean, really ... where the heck did all the money go? The voice acting isn't any more then I have seen in other modern games and they claim to have spent nearly half their budget on it?!?

DAoC: RvR Fronteirs and a single Battleground per tier of leveling.
WAR: 4 Battlegrounds and some RvR Frontiers
WoW: 3 (originally) Battlegrounds
RIFT: 3 Battlegrounds
SWTOR: 3 Battlegrounds and a now pointless PvP zone.

SO SICK OF BATTLEGROUNDS ... ESPECIALLY THE SAME FEW OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
 
Swtor is just boring real fast at endgame, there is no challenge at all even on nightmare mode. I mean the only difference between normal, hard and nightmare is hp and bossdmg with maybe a few exceptions.

Read about Rift that it was months before certain content was cleared which sounds interesting also comments about enough stuff to do and free transfers, think i'll give that one a try.
 
Lakku said:
I guess I didn't play Rift long enough, or find people to do endgame with. A lot of people in general chat were always complaining about the end game and by the time I had reached 50 just didn't want to play anymore. Outside of the Rifts themselves, the ever changing phases, and multiple specs, just felt the game wasn't much fun. And, a lot of what you mention, as in server mergers etc., was done in the months after release, as the game is about a year old now. So, it too didn't have all the things people hate TOR for at launch either. I do agree with the eventual offering of free xfers though, good idea, and agree the Hero engine doesn't seem like the ideal choice. With that much money could have just made their own engine, which from the sounds of it, they are having to do with all the changes they are having to make.
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Rift fixed itself up quickly, and was in good shape at launch. By this long post launch, unlike tor, they had added lots of content, and already had ui customization, functional everything, etc. They also had way more stuff at launch, and non ancient graphics. Addons came quickly, too.

Swtor remains broken and crappy on all fronts, two months after launch, with hardly anything fixed and Ilum gutted further.
 
Space_Ranger said:
Their #'s in the US and Europe are dying out though. Their hope is the Asian release.
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yeah not really. fud. I did cancel my subscription, but everything i have seen is that its still holding its own quite well.
 
I also got in on the hype. I'm just glad I bought the standard edition. The game felt so boring to me. I tried to like it, but I always rerolled at nar shaddaa, it just got too boring at that place.
Next thing on my list is GW2, hopefully there will be tons of players there to make that WvWvW happen.
 
Aluisious said:
They should have made a better game. If I want to play a fantasy MMO I'll play WOW, instead of an incomplete copy of it in a different setting.
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as a starwars fan i am really excited for SWTOR but WOW is still the best MMORPG out there. hands down.
 
Hmm, never thought of going back to Rift again. I played it for a few months, but it was just sort of dead. May have to try it out again. The 8th through the 14th of March? Have to reinstall it again and give it a try. Poor TOR, had such great hopes. I still wonder how much of the problems Bioware is having, are actually coming from EA.
 
This is probably the best version of whats wrong with SWTOR

Here is the reasons that me and a lot of my guildmates thought which I posted somewhere else:



Take it from someone who played SWTOR for 3 months: there is no long term appeal. My whole guild un-subbed from the game, I am talking about 50+ people. And these are hard core star wars fans. The problems with the game are the same as most of us predicted: its playing it too safe. After you finish the storylines of whatever class you want to play, there is nothing to do. Once you reach 50, all it does is turn into another boring gear grindfest. Thats it. The "endgame" content is worthless. Once you get to the last planet Ilum, you finish the few missions you do, then the only thing left to do is PVP, which is broken and another gear grind and do dailies which is the same thing over and over again. The flashpoints are decent, some are fun but they get old very fast. But once you go through them enough times, you want to just go take nap. There is nothing ground breaking or fun about the game except the aforementioned storylines and the voice acting of the game. Other than that, its just WoW with a Star Wars theme, and that's putting it nicely.

Here is a list of the other things that make SWTOR boring and irrelevant with no reason to keep subbed:

1. Crafting. It's a waste of time. Once you reach 50, the best gear is had through the PVP grind fest. No one buys armor from crafters once they reach 50. The only viable crafting that everyone does in the end is biochem, which is heals/buffs consumables.

2. Space combat. It's nothing more than a rail shooter. For those that don't know what it is: you go along a predetermined path and just shoot stuff as you go. That makes the game feel like a console game from the 80's. When Star Wars Galaxies did it 8 years ago, you expect a game made in 2011 to have something as good or better.

3. Game engine. The game engine is based on the Hero engine. And not even the modern Hero engine. That means everything is bland and monotonous. Same crappy cutscene animations that you have seen in other games based off the engine. It ruins immersion. Not to mention runs like crap and low FPS on all kinds of systems, from mid end to high end systems. Read their forums to see what I mean. And don't get me started on the Clone Wars-esque theme/colors/artwork.

4. GUI. Holy console crapola. The GUI is horrid. You can't move windows around except the chat window. AND you can only have two windows open, which makes crafting a PAIN in the butt. The color scheme/window frames feel like something made in 2004. Only 2 hotbars in the center.....seriously? There are just too many problems to list about the GUI. And don't get me started on the chat system thats so antiquated it's not even funny. Try to manage 5 people "whispering" you. The best chat system in any game is EVE Online, everyone should have that.

5. PVP. The last planet is supposed to be the big battleground for PVPers. But it's boring. It's buggy. Its irrelevant. 16 players in Warzones is hardware intensive when it shouldn't be. If EVE Online can have 1200 ships shooting each other in one area, why can't SWTOR have 16 players shooting each other without FPS issues. So many games that revolve around PVP with HUGE amounts of players without FPS issues that I could list. And the only reason, besides RP, to PVP is to just get more gear. That's it. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Who cares.

Those are just the main problems. I don't CARE that it's just come out. I don't CARE that it's Bioware's first MMO. They started out in the development process supposedly learning from other MMO's mistakes. I don't see that. They spent $200 million on this game, took 5 years or so to make, and all we get is a voice acted WoW-clone with a Star Wars theme that is 10% as fun as WoW? Truly sad.

With the amount of more interesting games coming down the pipe in the next few months, that means there will be even more people leaving. Guild Wars 2, Planetside 2, The Secret World, etc. There is a lot of competition coming their way, and it looks like they have far more staying power just from the leaked footage than TOR has by a long shot. At the moment the only reason people will even resub to SWTOR is just for whatever new big content that they release, like extra storylines etc, but once people finish those, they unsub and go somewhere else.
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If your happy with the game, good for you, I am not trying to make people quit. I am only stating what me and a bunch of people I know think and feel and what we decided. But some who still play might agree with me but play the game in denial, or they are patient and hope it gets better. More power to them. But I am not wasting $15 a month in the hopes that they do something. I will resub when they do some drastic changes to the game, because as it stands now, I don't see any reason to keep playing the game. I already have chat rooms to talk to people in, don't need to spend $15 a month to sit in Fleet waiting on a LFG and chat with people.
 
Played. Tried a bunch of characters. Got one (Sith Sorceror) to lvl 50. Haven't played since.
 
I don't see an easy way to fix SWTOR, but I think they'll make their money back. I'm looking forward to:
Diablo 3 (isn't everyone?)
GW2 - GW1 was very fun, but ran out of content quickly. Hopefully GW2 is bigger
Tera - Beautiful game (if you like korean/japan-styled characters), with an interesting combat system. Has already been out in Korea for a year, so they've had time to fix it. Hopefully the end-game is good.
 
City of Heroes had a bunch of people hop the bus to A Galaxy Far Far Away.

Most of them wound up RUNNING back to CoH, tossing their lightly used lightsabers over their shoulders. They hadn't realized how spoiled they were by CoH's interface, early travel power selection,l decent chat setup (not the greatest, but not bad), an invention/gear system that's COMPLETELY decoupled from the costume system., etc etc.

Well, that and the fact that the game now has 8 years of content built up. That's going to get more problematic as time goes buy. Sure, new games will have beautiful interfaces/graphics, but users are expecting more and more that there will be lots of content available on release (or shortly thereafter). Expecting people to repeat endless hunts or "street sweep" simply to make ends meet "leveling-wise" simply drives them away from the game.
 
SWTOR will be fine once they put in a proper groupfinder.

The main issue is Bioware originally listened to the sandbox advocates who thought a groupfinder would ruin socialization (which was idiotic). All this did is make people realize they don't want to stand around the fleet space station spamming LFG, and so most PvP.

There is an endgame, but finding a group is next to impossible because of what I said before.

Fortunately Bioware realized this quick and is putting in an LFG finder in the next major update - 1.2 I believe.

Once people have this, its going to make things a lot better. And when the Guild stuff comes in, whenever that does, it will improve even more.

The game won't fail - but it is typical of the MMO crowd to whine and complain, and then complain further with each new update, only to end up liking it by the next update so they can complain about the new update.

If MMOs success were based on how much people whine, then DDO would have been dead 50 times over since going F2P. Every new update brings a new batch of doom-sayers. Yet its healthy now and alive and kicking.

SWTOR will have some growing pains, but my god, if SWG can survive for 8 years with barely anything interesting other than some nifty systems, SWTOR is going to be just fine for quite a damn long time.
 
Nothing in this thread seems to address any of the main issues with SWTOR other than the basic performance issues the game has.

Here is my take on it:

Worlds feel empty: This issue consists of 2 main components:
1. Companion material collecting should be REMOVED or reduced greatly/limited to only 1 item used in a 2 item build. Getting people to go out in the world to get materials, whether it's farming or not is part of an MMO. A constant time-delayed income of materials may sound great on paper, but in effect it rendered the world useless.
2. Flashpoints don't actually exist anywhere in the world. You just take a mystical shuttle that goes somewhere far far far away, oh but it's right over there. Flashpoint entry should be removed from the SpacePort and put out in the world. Make poeple have to find the shuttle pad in a cave to get there, or take a rakata portal in. There are many options, but just get it out into the world and implement player summoning.

In summary, the world feels empty because everything is handed to you from lvl 10.

Travelling is HEAVY: Going from one planet to another takes no less than 8 mouse clicks and 3 load screens, not to mention at least 2 minutes of running just to get to the perceptible entrance of the desired planet. This should be MAJORLY streamlined. First off, remove the elevator button interface ENTIRELY. This is the single worst designed component of the game. Make it into a floor activated button that whenever you step into an elevator you port instantly, and make each elevator only go to one place. (i.e. 1 goes up, 1 goes down, so there is never more than 2.)

Remember the idea to remove the FP portals from the Stations? Replace each FP entrance with a direct planet shuttle! This will give nearly instance access to any planet, and will improve the 'feeling' of all of the star ports and the stations by making them terminals with many exit points, just like an airport. Worries over the resulting diminished use of personal starships are moot, because honestly you shouldn't be able to go into your own 'world' so often in an MMO in the first place. Players need to be seen and heard to create the atmosphere, not sheltered.

Aside from the performance issues, I think these 2 things alone would be enough to spark some life back in.

Complaints on the interface may be valid but aren't critical. The interface functions, and that is all it really has to do. There are issues here, but none of them would stop someone from playing an otherwise good game. And introducing add-ins would put either a massive strain on the development team to make sure it was hack proof, or it would introduce a high magnitude of 'hack' add ins that would make much of the game trivial. Undertaking such a task as maintaining add-ins is something the development team shouldn't be focusing on right now.

Complaints on space combat are equally moot. It is what it is. The game isn't a space shooter, it's a ground based MMO with a mini game. If you don't like the mini game there is no reason you would ever have to play it. Players that complain heavily about space are probably the same players that begged Bioware to release the game 'NOW, no matter how many bugs!" Because they just wanted to play and need instant gratification.

Crafting will soon become mandatory (at least until you get a full suit of orange with augment slots) for all end game gearing. While this creates new issues and complaints, it solves the concern over crafting being useless at end game.

In the end, players are more entitled now. They want the game how they think it should be and not how it would best be as a game for everyone. And for the most part, I don't think that players really know what is best for an MMO. Because typically it's the same features that piss you off and challenge you that keep you playing and make you determined.
 
If SWTOR implements a group finder, it needs to 1: be limited to your own server, and 2: not instantly port you to the instance.

Requiring 1 or 2 players to have to hoof it out to the physical location of the flashpoint is essential in my opinion.
 
How on earth is everyone getting bored so fast with tor? Given there are 8 separate story lines to play, that should be good for a few months of gaming, not to mention the sub classes (which I'll likely run through just to see how some of the alternate conversation choices work). Granted, I don't game anywhere near as much as i used to, but by the time I'm leveling all of my imperial and republic characters to 50, it will probably be sometime in July / September, at which time there should be plenty of additional content available...
 
Endgame said:
How on earth is everyone getting bored so fast with tor? Given there are 8 separate story lines to play, that should be good for a few months of gaming, not to mention the sub classes (which I'll likely run through just to see how some of the alternate conversation choices work). Granted, I don't game anywhere near as much as i used to, but by the time I'm leveling all of my imperial and republic characters to 50, it will probably be sometime in July / September, at which time there should be plenty of additional content available...
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Well even if you play the other classes, you'll still be going through the same side quests, FP, and heroics. My only recommendation is to switch factions if someone rolls an alternate.
 
SPARTAN VI said:
Well even if you play the other classes, you'll still be going through the same side quests, FP, and heroics. My only recommendation is to switch factions if someone rolls an alternate.
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Playing the same side quests 4 to 8 times is way better than grinding the same endgame content thousands of times. I had enough of that 2 months after WoW released, or going back even further with diablo 2, joining baal-995.. and having started at baal-1.

If you want a MMO with excellent PVP and no tedious endgame, go play Eve online. The problem there is the complete lack of story and early content, which Tor has in spades.
 
picked up ToR at the behest of the gf's brother. I was actually pretty shocked by how unpolished it is. It feels a lot like Kotor3 with WoW as a thin overlay.

Now that said, i have a few more months with it. I am having a great time with the storylines. That said though, once i get through a few class storylines I will probably burn out, go back to EQ2 and when i feel like continuing, resub, finish the other stories, then unsub again. I don't care for pvp in MMOs so that isn't really an option for me, and I will certainly raid, but only on my "main" character (her bro brought us in because we were pretty hardcore in WoW and their guild needs help).

I know this sounds shocking to some, but I play games for their story, including mmo's. Once Wrath closed in WoW i didn't feel like their was really a story left to tell and once we finished cata we quit (both due to the huge steamer the devs took on the game as well as it simply not offering anything compelling anymore). Rift had the same problem for me... the premise felt like they were forcing conflict of the two sides and making them both sound unlikable...therefore it didn't suck me in despite the the actual game systems being pretty cool. I dig EQ2 because while not linear, it sort of goes for the Tolkien thing of laying out a rich world and you can sort of interject yourself wherever you wish.

Anyway, I think if ToR wants to keep players it needs to figure out a better compromise than where it is at, allow full respecs of the classes, better quality of life components, and more interesting things to do at the end...and my biggest complaint... figure out level progression in an MMO, they don't understand this and it shows. I am bored with planets and even if my class quest is over they keep throwing quests at me, with the expectation that i'm going to turn stuff down... just don't include them at all then and don't add stuff that makes me feel forced to be somewhere.
 
I'm sure I'm coming back to this way too late.

Overall, I've enjoyed the game greatly, but I also have different expectations. I've played WoW since the start and did several years of 'hardcore' raiding on endgame. I don't want that anymore. I've even gone through a year of PVP, but don't really care for that anymore. I like a casual gaming MMO experience where I don't feel like my life is a slave to the game. So I've mostly enjoyed what SWTOR brings to the table. In short, it's great for that.

Most of the things people have complained about are pretty valid, though some don't apply to me.

LIKES:
- I actually care about my damn character's...character! My other MMO toons have no personalized backstory, forward story, or motivations. They're just tools with pretty gear and unique playstyles. I am shocked at how much I really love being able to tailor my toon and know that I *won't* get everything at the end (advanced class choice, light or dark, crew affection, etc). Going from WoW to Skyrim to SWTOR has been an excellent bit of therapy for caring for my toons again, like classic RPGs.

- Companion gathering! I love this, because it gives me something to do. If you really want to make money in an MMO, you don't spend hours gathering materials; this time-bounds you. You work whatever auction house system there is. You can't scale your hours spent gathering, but you can always scale your income via buying/selling things at auction. So giving me a chance to gather a few things I need without the time outlay of running out to get it is nice.

- Tons of classes/playstyles. At first you hear: 8 classes. Ok, whatever, not much. But then you start thinking about the Advanced Class choice and the talent trees, and really there are more than 16 "classes" in this game. I'm looking forward to the long haul (and hopefully added planets and content so I don't level them all up on the same planets with the same quests) in trying out many of these toons.

- I can level as a healer! And do just fine. In fact, as a Smuggler healer as my main, I can heal, indefinitely, many world elites and champions, and solo heroic2s and many heroic4s (though sometimes I have to wait to overlevel it a bit).

- Space combat. Yeah, I'll say it, I enjoy the space combat for what it is: a neat little side game that is essentially an arcade game. I'm showing my age here, but it *almost* reminds me of that old vector-graphic Star Wars sit-down arcade game from the 80s. It's no Tie Fighter or Wing Commander (please, someone needs to make more of those!), but then again, I wasn't expecting such in my MMo either. The only downside is the reuse of routes and missions; it does admittedly get stale quickly. But what is there, is really fun.

DISLIKES:
- Crafting blows, but mostly because the GUI blows. It definitely needs a few rounds of tweaks to flesh things out, and they need to come from player suggestions who have done crafting in other games. I have found a decent living making vanity items, i.e. modifiable pieces that people can buy and upgrade yet retain their own desired look.

- Level designers made huge planets and worlds, and some of it feels relatively empty and way too big. You first get this sense in Coruscant on the Republic side, especially the Senate building. It's great and large and pretty and awesome, until you have to run through it to make sure you didn't miss a quest-giver in the corner.

- No LFG system. Granted, WoW only 'recently' put in their own system, and let me tell you, it was the single best addition to WoW since BC hit, hands-down. It lets casual players like myself join in, queue up for some fun, and drop out back to real life when needed. This system single-handed kept me in WoW. SWTOR badly, badly, badly needs it.

- GUI. I've done the hardcore endgame content, where you pretty much need to replace your default UI with 15 different addons, which make major patch days a mad scramble. I don't miss that, and I like that we're all forced to the given UI. I just wish there was more to it. Like seeing Focus targets, Target Targets. I play a healer and tank roles, and I badly miss some of my UI tools like that. Also, see crafting complaints and chat complaints.


I don't get how people complain about the aged engine or all the fetch and kill-x questing. Isn't that part of the point of any RPG for near 30 years? I don't know what magical mechanics would make me happy to do and still level a toon up. Set pieces like CoD? No thanks. So, I understand the individual points about the dated engine, but I just don't know what people have in mind when they complain about the same old questing...it's never going to be different, imo.
 
Back to playing Rift. Too bad the population is low, especially for large scale world PvP that I missed during release.

But with a new instance comming in the next patch, that gives me time to get a bunch of tards organized to take down all the current raid content. If only they released the game with half of the features they have now, I would have never gotten bored so fast.
 
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