Suggestions on backup power supply?

GiGaBiTe

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SO thats the only way to get it to shut itself down – using the serial port? What does the USB connection do then?
USB has the same functionality as DB-9 serial. You should be able to do the same over USB and have the computer automatically shut off. Both Windows and Linux can generally see UPSes when they're plugged in, sometimes you may need a driver from the manufacturer though.
 

Zepher

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SO thats the only way to get it to shut itself down – using the serial port? What does the USB connection do then?
You can use either of the ports. I use the USB on mine, I have it set to power down the machine after running on batteries for 5 minutes and then shuts down.
 

fatryan

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Thanks to you both. So do I need to change any Windows settings to get it to shut itself down? I downloaded HWMONITOR Pro last night, and it recognized the UPS. But I didn't go any further than that.
 

Zepher

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Thanks to you both. So do I need to change any Windows settings to get it to shut itself down? I downloaded HWMONITOR Pro last night, and it recognized the UPS. But I didn't go any further than that.
you need to install the APC Powerchute software as that is what monitors the UPS and controls the PC for shutdown.

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/PowerChute-Personal-Edition-v3-1/P-SFPCPE31

I was looking at the APC software and the one above doesn't list Smart-UPS, just the Back-UPS models.

This one is for the Smart-UPS but is only 32bit,
https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products//P-SFPCBE95
 

fatryan

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you need to install the APC Powerchute software as that is what monitors the UPS and controls the PC for shutdown.

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/PowerChute-Personal-Edition-v3-1/P-SFPCPE31

I was looking at the APC software and the one above doesn't list Smart-UPS, just the Back-UPS models.

This one is for the Smart-UPS but is only 32bit,
https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products//P-SFPCBE95
I did install that with the disc that came with the UPS. I don't really get it though. There's no application to execute? No settings to change? All it did was provide a HTML file that doesn't load in the browser. I see nothing else of use in the x86 program files.
 

fatryan

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I did install that with the disc that came with the UPS. I don't really get it though. There's no application to execute? No settings to change? All it did was provide a HTML file that doesn't load in the browser. I see nothing else of use in the x86 program files.
So I just uninstalled and re-installed – both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Neither detect my UPS. I don't know what to do.
 

Zepher

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So I just uninstalled and re-installed – both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Neither detect my UPS. I don't know what to do.
Not sure what to tell you, maybe contact APC and see what they recommend. I've always used the BackUPS series and not the Smart-UPS due to cost.
The BackUPS series uses the PowerChute Personal program, which is what I am using.
 

drutman

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The UPS has been a vital part of my system, down in Texas where I live I had been hit directly by three major hurricanes and never had a issue with brown outs or spikes. According to my neighbor who is the transmission manager for our utility company he tells me that the phase is the only thing they must provide(60Hz), voltages are not tightly regulated due to many conditions. APC units are good, you have to be prepared to replace the battery eventually in all units regardless of maker. Now for our server we use Eaton which is more rugged and expensive, designed for enterprise/industrial use.
 

fatryan

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Not sure what to tell you, maybe contact APC and see what they recommend. I've always used the BackUPS series and not the Smart-UPS due to cost.
The BackUPS series uses the PowerChute Personal program, which is what I am using.
Yeah. I mean, it came with the damn disc...you'd think it would work with this UPS. I'll try to make some sense of it.
 

OFaceSIG

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An easy way to keep things going during outage is ti have three things. A UPS that can carry your machine for a few minutes. A big AGM battery and a charger for it with a trickle mode. And an sine wave inverter that can carry the load. They came as low as 300w I've seen.

1) Keep your machine on the UPS. keep your battery on the charger that also has a trickle mode.
2) When the power goes out, take your battery off the charger, connect the inverter and turn it on.
3) Plug your UPS into the inverter. The much larger AGM battery will power your UPS through the sine wave inverter much longer then the smaller battery in the UPS.
4) When the power comes back on reverse the process, turn off the inverter, plug yoru UPS into the wall and reconnect your AGM battery to the charger.

Your machine won't turn off and will never be the wiser.
 

fatryan

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An easy way to keep things going during outage is ti have three things. A UPS that can carry your machine for a few minutes. A big AGM battery and a charger for it with a trickle mode. And an sine wave inverter that can carry the load. They came as low as 300w I've seen.

1) Keep your machine on the UPS. keep your battery on the charger that also has a trickle mode.
2) When the power goes out, take your battery off the charger, connect the inverter and turn it on.
3) Plug your UPS into the inverter. The much larger AGM battery will power your UPS through the sine wave inverter much longer then the smaller battery in the UPS.
4) When the power comes back on reverse the process, turn off the inverter, plug yoru UPS into the wall and reconnect your AGM battery to the charger.

Your machine won't turn off and will never be the wiser.
Seems like a lot of converting: AC (wall) > DC (battery) > AC (inverter) > DC (UPS battery) > AC (UPS sinewave)

Is this even really a very efficient or safe method? I already own a battery tender trickle charger, but I'd need to purchase a deep cycle battery and inverter... That's a lot of coin. At that rate, i might as well have just purchased a massive UPS that would serve the same purpose, no?
 

OFaceSIG

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Safe, perfectly. Efficient, not immensely. The difference is this will keep your computer running for a very long time without having something else like a generator. Any 12v battery charger with a trickle (or maintenance) mode can charge up your 12v AGM battery and keep it there indefinitely. The trickle mode uses very little power. I keep my generator starter battery and another 12v AGM on trickle chargers indefinitely. It actually extends their life. Lead acid batteries like to be charged.

A massive UPS will have a smaller battery, a lower quality inverter, for the same money, then you're likely to get if you buy these components separately. It will be less "hassle", that's the only real advantage.
 

fatryan

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Safe, perfectly. Efficient, not immensely. The difference is this will keep your computer running for a very long time without having something else like a generator. Any 12v battery charger with a trickle (or maintenance) mode can charge up your 12v AGM battery and keep it there indefinitely. The trickle mode uses very little power. I keep my generator starter battery and another 12v AGM on trickle chargers indefinitely. It actually extends their life. Lead acid batteries like to be charged.

A massive UPS will have a smaller battery, a lower quality inverter, for the same money, then you're likely to get if you buy these components separately. It will be less "hassle", that's the only real advantage.
Deep cycle batteries start at like $200, at least last time i bought a yellow top for car audio... Which was like 15 years ago. So maybe $300+ now. And a good power inverter worth a damn is going to run the same or more. I've got some experience with shitty power inverters. You can't find a reliable one under $100, and that's really low powered ones.

You don't think it's possible to take that ~$500 plus the $350 I just spent on an smc1500c and instead find a UPS capable of running for a couple hours? My 1500c is estimating I have an hour of use if I lose power. If that's say double the true number, I'm still left with 30min of time before it shuts off. $500 more thrown at a bigger UPS wouldn't buy me a couple additional hours?

This is all hypothetical at this point, as I'm not about to buy a whole new UPS. I'm also very unlikely to do any kind of deep cycle battery setup anytime soon, as that kind of money could be spent more wisely. It's not THAT critical that my surveillance system runs non-stop. We don't have a lot of power outages here, and any would-be burglar is too stupid to do something like cut the power. We just have pretty thieves, junkies, and occasional gang related crimes around me. They're all idiots who just kick doors in or put a gun in your face, no Hollywood style break-ins here ha ha
 

OFaceSIG

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fatryan

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You don't need an expensive battery. It won't be used that often. Most of the time it'll sit on the charger. You're over thinking this.

$100 for a huge AGM https://www.batteriesplus.com/produ...lF4zxeEIkNycNKNMR0XSVIfDM92uSx6BoCVk0QAvD_BwE

$120 for a 800w pure sine inverter https://www.amazon.com/800W-Power-Inverter-DC12V-AC110V/dp/B07FCXXCSV

random charger for $50 bucks

Less than $300 for something that can run your computer for awhile.
I suppose that depends on your definition of huge. Compared to your typical car battery, that's tiny. I was assuming we were talking about using a regular car battery or something. If that thing gets a couple days of run time, then maybe this is with looking at.

I'd be shocked if that inverter even turns on. Not a chance in hell I'd put that on anything that has the potential to explode and/or burn my house down. Even if that thing powers up, there's zero chance it does anywhere near rated power. The only Chinese electronics I purposely buy are surveillance equipment ha ha. A legit 800W inverter will be considerably bigger than that and likely use heat sinks instead of fans, because fans don't last.
 

OFaceSIG

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I suppose that depends on your definition of huge. Compared to your typical car battery, that's tiny. I was assuming we were talking about using a regular car battery or something. If that thing gets a couple days of run time, then maybe this is with looking at.

I'd be shocked if that inverter even turns on. Not a chance in hell I'd put that on anything that has the potential to explode and/or burn my house down. Even if that thing powers up, there's zero chance it does anywhere near rated power. The only Chinese electronics I purposely buy are surveillance equipment ha ha. A legit 800W inverter will be considerably bigger than that and likely use heat sinks instead of fans, because fans don't last.
Well considering I have mutliple 1500w UPSs from APC and they have only 2 7ah batteries in them for a total of 14ah. That battery is 75ah. It's no slouch.
 

fatryan

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Well considering I have mutliple 1500w UPSs from APC and they have only 2 7ah batteries in them for a total of 14ah. That battery is 75ah. It's no slouch.
Well I'll look into a reasonably priced inverter, but I honestly dont even have the room right now. Probably won't happen until I move.
 

OFaceSIG

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This was the video I was thinking about. I couldn't remember where I initially had seen anything like this and I found the video again.

 

fatryan

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This was the video I was thinking about. I couldn't remember where I initially had seen anything like this and I found the video again.

So i finally got around to watching that whole thing. The guy makes some interesting points. Though i still have an issue with his choice of inverter.

The specs on that thing say it has 6x40A internal fuses, meaning... At absolute best, in completely ideal conditions and improperly sized fuses, it can output at most about 2880W peak. At minimum input voltage that drops to 2400W peak. That doesn't account for efficiency, which is 90% on that inverter, or voltage drop across the wires which could be significant on longer runs. I don't know if he intentionally undersized the anl fuse to make it the weakest link, but he seriously undersized it if those specs are to be believed. Those inverters are also designed to split the output across all outlets, 3 in his case, so he's realistically probably getting 300WRMS per outlet at most (with a 240A anl fuse, not the 175A he chose). The inverter company does at least have an actual website you can visit, but I didn't see a legit data sheet on the inverter anywhere... Just a table in the user manual that looks like it was typed up in 10min in Word. Another thing about the inverter that's suspect is the wires it came with. Those are very undersized if it's truly pulling up to 240A at 12V. That's a fire waiting to happen.

And as for my situation vs. that guys, he says his mom's computer was drawing like 50W or something right? Mine will draw considerably more. I think PC part picker put me at like 300-400W if I remember correctly, and i don't remember if that included my 32" monitor. So I'd need one of there larger models, the 2000W cont. or maybe 3000W cont. That 1500W he's using is almost $200 on Amazon, so you can bet the others are a lot more.

If I were to do something like this, switching plugs during a power outage would be a big no-go for me. The intention of my setup is to run without the need for user input. It's not a work station I would be using regularly. So if i lost power, I may or may not be home. I may or may not even know i lost power. If the UPS cannot be safely permanently connected to the inverter, I don't see the point for my use.
 

OFaceSIG

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I get it. But I'm getting a small set up like this ready to run my fiber terminal during short power outages.

For extended outages I have a generator.
 

fatryan

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I get it. But I'm getting a small set up like this ready to run my fiber terminal during short power outages.

For extended outages I have a generator.
Perhaps when I got a bigger house and bigger paychecks, I could justify a setup like that. I just don't think it would work where I'm at now. Its already cramped. And that inverter is gonna get HOT!
 
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