Subwoofer diameter

[Rossi~]

I've been into Hi-Fi for a while and music production hardware and I've always been under the assumption that the larger diameter subs generally go deeper than those smaller diameter and in a lot of cases the smaller diameter subs are easier to drive and are "quicker" as such.
Is this now a misconception? The reason i'm asking is that i'm about to pull the trigger on a good deal with a Wharfedale MS65+ sub -- http://www.avbristol.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=415

Brochure: http://electomania.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/brochure-moviestar.pdf

Diameter: 150mm
Power: 100W
Line Input Sensitivity: 250mv for 75W
Average o/p@ 1M: 105dB
Boundary Position: 28-150Hz
Crossover Range: 90-150
Dimensions (HxWxD) mm: 290 x 288 x 330

Looking at feedback on AV forums and the sub is apparently bloody good, especially for the price and is now kinda hard to get hold of. It's 100w and can get down to 28Hz but it's a 6" which is the smallest i've come across really so i'm on the fence to how it will perform.

Can somebody who knows their hi-fi/subs give me their opinion on this please

Cheers.

 

[DeathPrincess]

Generally the size of a speaker will affect the frequencies it is able to produce. The lower the frequency means that you have to push more air to make the sound audiable (which is why dual subwoofers are able to produce lower notes). A smaller cone = less deep fequencies = easier to push. For comparision a 12" sub will generallly be able to reach 30h/z easily and usually down to 20h/z, the 5h/z sub was 60". Thought this isn't a set in place rule, some good quality subs can go below their size, and i've worked with 18" subs that struggled at 30...

Most music, during the mixing/mastering has the sub 30h/z frequencies removed as "it makes the mix less muddy, and most speakers/headphones wont be able to produce these sounds". So at 28h/z it will still be able to produce the full range of the vast majority of music thats been professionally mastered. Note that the lowest point of human hearing is around 20h/z but with some people its higher than this, sub bass is generally felt more than heard however.

The best advice, as with any audio purchase, whatever it is, is to go and have a listen with some material that you are familiar with. Even if the store thats selling it doesn't have it, look around for somehwere that does with a showroom. One thing may sound great to 100 other people, but may sound like crap to you. Only your opionion really matters!

 

[Rossi~]

The best advice, as with any audio purchase, whatever it is, is to go and have a listen with some material that you are familiar with. Even if the store thats selling it doesn't have it, look around for somehwere that does with a showroom. One thing may sound great to 100 other people, but may sound like crap to you. Only your opionion really matters!

Unfortunately the only place that sells it is a few hundred miles away, so no can do . But i have sent a couple of PM's to people who have them for their opinion. So that, your opinions along with mine are all i can go on really.

Another bit of info that may help with the answer, this sub will only be dealing with below around 60hz as It'll be only helping out a set of Cerwin Vega! VE-8f's

 

[DeathPrincess]

I was going to say that the smaller size would probably mean that the top frequency reproduction would be higher!

The lowest cutoff for this sub is 90h/z, the general rule is to put the cutoff at to slightly above the point where the speakers cross -3dB on a frequency response graph (which I couldn't find for those speakers!) but the room they're in will effect this, so either make one of your own room (if possible), or just do it by experimentation and what sounds best (infact do that anyway!). Some amps provide cutoffs that only send certain frequencies to the individual channels which would help find the point. The Vegas, being more "full range" speakers cover most of the frequencies. Note that while they may reach down to 60h/z, they may not do it with the same power as they reach higher freqeuncies, so the subs cutoff may need to be set higher!

 

[dandragonrage]

Okay. Let's get one thing straight. There is NO SUCH THING as "fast bass" or "slow bass." There are only varying amounts of distortion. Yes, larger speakers can be tougher to keep the distortion down with, but there are lots of capable engineers out there that will give you the best of both worlds.

The subwoofer I use in my living room is an Acoustic Elegance AV15x, which is obviously 15". I would put its sound quality against ANY 8"-10" subwoofer. But let's see how those tiny subwoofers strain and distory when trying to play 20Hz, which my 15" can easily do.

There are lots of low quality 15"s, 18"s, 21"s out there that will sound like garbage, but... there are also lots of 12"s, 10"s, 8"s, 6"s, and every other size that sound like crap as well. Research is the name of the game. Research and buy the right product for your needs.

 

[Rossi~]

There are lots of low quality 15"s, 18"s, 21"s out there that will sound like garbage, but... there are also lots of 12"s, 10"s, 8"s, 6"s, and every other size that sound like crap as well. Research is the name of the game. Research and buy the right product for your needs.

Indeed, research is the key here. I've been searching about the place for more information on the sub and any other smaller subs also, I'll come to a conclusion soon i'm sure and based on peoples surprise at the quality a frequency response of it I think i'll probably end up going for it, if i do i'll try and remember to leave some feedback here for others.

As for the crossover, I'll be using this with my receiver which will handle that, will set to 60Hz think based on my experience with VE-8s that can rumble down into the 30s even but you can hear that they're not all that strong down there.

 

[Rossi~]

Managed to get the Wharfedale MS68 Sub! It's 10" downfiring cousin. There were only 2 left a the place i was going to the MS65 from, they'd just posted them on eBay the other day and within an hour i found them and got one, i'm so glad. Will be testing tonight, will have a big grin on my face i'm sure! (The GF won't though as it will annoy her and the lack of attention on Valentines day.. whoops!

 

[Rossi~]

Turns out it's the (now rare) Powercube 10+. My lord it's lovely!
No more "boomy" bass, it sounds so precise and clear! Love it, very powerful though, spent a quite a while getting it right for my small room. Loving the fact that playing with Ableton, which is what i use to set up my speakers usually, i can really feel the sub down to 30Hz, past there it's not so strong. I was expecting it to start to fade at around 40-35Hz so that's a nice surprise, the manual says 28Hz boundary, which is pretty much it, probably a lot different in a bigger room.
I set the crossover on the receiver to 60Hz as the VE-8's can take it find down there (and some!) and it sounds and feels the right place for it to in all honesty.

Hazzar!
Sorry neighbours

Next purchase will be the Xonar Essence One, most probably not much of an improvement over the STX but i can switch between my HD595's and HD25-1 II's easily. Not interested in it's 32bit up-scaling crap but i always wished they'd release an external STX.

 

[PCMusicGuy]

Congrats on the sub. You did the right thing just pulling the trigger. You could have waited and waited for opinions and feedback and ended up with something you didn't like. For speakers, as long as it sounds good to you, that is the important thing. We could talk about sub designs properties indefinitely, such as sealed or ported, frequency reponse, group delay, etc., but listening is real test.

 

[Rossi~]

Congrats on the sub. You did the right thing just pulling the trigger. You could have waited and waited for opinions and feedback and ended up with something you didn't like. For speakers, as long as it sounds good to you, that is the important thing. We could talk about sub designs properties indefinitely, such as sealed or ported, frequency reponse, group delay, etc., but listening is real test.

Indeed! I would be kicking myself if i didn't wait.
I've been playing with it some more and it's pretty much perfect now. I've got it so i can using the "Game" profile on the receiver which boosts the sub a bit for the games. For music i don't touch a thing when changing genres. Before i would have to drop the sub some when listening to Tech House / Techno / Electronica / Tech Pop music like Deadmau5.

 

[Almighty ODST]

Sort of off topic but Joel released a new track on his soundcloud a couple days ago. Taking it back to his progressive roots more so than any of his other new stuff. It's pretty awesome and it's a little over 10 minutes long.

 

[Rossi~]

Sort of off topic but Joel released a new track on his soundcloud a couple days ago. Taking it back to his progressive roots more so than any of his other new stuff. It's pretty awesome and it's a little over 10 minutes long.

You mean HR 8938 Cephei? Yeah it's badass man.