It is. Everything else you just said is white noise. Numbers don't back you up. You're just talking out of your ass. 99% of PC gamers play on their monitors, not their TVs. If it wasn't for your join date on these forums, I'd think you were 13 years old.
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Subscription Growth Has Flattened claims games industry analyst
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Flogger23m
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Streaming movies isn't as good either, but we're talking about mass audiences. I'm sure the average PC gamer who gets 30-40 frame rates at medium settings or the casual console gamer won't notice too much. And that is what I fear. Average people who don't game too much will likely accept it.
DukenukemX
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Streaming movies isn't bad inherently, but it is bad due to how the industry is dealing with it. If you want to watch every Pokemon episode and movie then you'll need multiple streaming services to do it. You may pay for 4K but get image quality worse than 720P. It's not a streaming problem because anyone with Plex can do it with a single UI while getting the best quality possible, not to forget that you aren't limited to what hardware can actually stream the content. It didn't take long before streaming is now the worst way possible to experience TV shows and Movies, and the most expensive.
Streaming games though is not the same thing. You can't just stream good image quality with a high frame rate, but now you need to deal with latency, which is a problem that video streaming services don't need to worry about. This is not a problem that can be fixed with better technology because you can't break the laws of physics with buying a better router or running more fiber optic. If cloud gaming ends up in the same situation as video streaming services, you may end up having multiple subscriptions just to get access to the games you want to play. You could also end up paying extra for things like lower latency and Ray-Tracing, because it's not like video streaming services haven't tried doing this to things you've taken for granted. If companies weren't so greedy, the subscription model could have worked, but we know the moment Game Pass or Xbox Cloud Gaming takes off, snake ass Microsoft will triple the price of this thing. Then every game studio will make their own subscription service, as some are already doing, with black jack and hookers.
More like what Ubisoft is doing. As an add-on / top-up to a base service like xbox
(I am guessing Microsoft might introduce a new premium tier that has games such as Call of Duty)
Circana analyst Mat Piscatella noted last April that United States consumer spending on non-mobile video game subscriptions had stalled, growing just two per cent year-over-year. And that remains true now: “March 2024 non-mobile video game subscription spending was only up 1 per cent vs April 2023.”
In other words, subscriptions like PS Plus and Xbox Game Pass are not the game changing business models they were billed to be. Yes, there’s clearly money to be made from them, but growth would need to be much more significant than what we’re currently seeing for them to be the future of an industry that already finds itself on uncertain footing
The Verge's Tom Warren published a new report today, claiming that Microsoft has "had internal debates" about whether it wants to add newer Call of Duty installments to the gaming subscription service. Warren writes that this debate has been "ongoing internally for quite some time." Those who oppose the idea argue that Call of Duty's revenue for Activision Blizzard (and, by extension, Microsoft) would "be undermined" by a Game Pass release.
More interestingly, Warren writes that Microsoft "has also contemplated" a price hike for the Ultimate tier of Xbox Game Pass. Again, this is up for consideration, and nothing has been finalized, though Warren deduced that it could mean that a future Call of Duty release might appear in "most versions of Game Pass."
Gaming Subs Like PS Plus, Xbox Game Pass Aren't Growing At All
Stagnant for several years nowCircana analyst Mat Piscatella noted last April that United States consumer spending on non-mobile video game subscriptions had stalled, growing just two per cent year-over-year. And that remains true now: “March 2024 non-mobile video game subscription spending was only up 1 per cent vs April 2023.”
In other words, subscriptions like PS Plus and Xbox Game Pass are not the game changing business models they were billed to be. Yes, there’s clearly money to be made from them, but growth would need to be much more significant than what we’re currently seeing for them to be the future of an industry that already finds itself on uncertain footing
Microsoft Debating Call of Duty on Game Pass Along With Another Price Hike - Report
The internal debates have reportedly been "ongoing" for quite a bit.
The Verge's Tom Warren published a new report today, claiming that Microsoft has "had internal debates" about whether it wants to add newer Call of Duty installments to the gaming subscription service. Warren writes that this debate has been "ongoing internally for quite some time." Those who oppose the idea argue that Call of Duty's revenue for Activision Blizzard (and, by extension, Microsoft) would "be undermined" by a Game Pass release.
More interestingly, Warren writes that Microsoft "has also contemplated" a price hike for the Ultimate tier of Xbox Game Pass. Again, this is up for consideration, and nothing has been finalized, though Warren deduced that it could mean that a future Call of Duty release might appear in "most versions of Game Pass."
People are broke, and there is now a subscription for everything. People are being forced to cut corners and turn to other avenues to get their content, which obviously (yarrr) isn't part of a subscription.
Apple arcade growth is flat, Sony PlayStation's growth flat, Microsoft Game Pass flat, Nintendo flat, Netflix flat, Disney flat, and others dwindling and being forced to merge or pull content.
Game studios are being shuttered faster than most places can keep count, and movie studios are canceling projects faster than ever before.
Consumer spending on entertainment is at a low and companies are struggling to react and adapt.
Apple arcade growth is flat, Sony PlayStation's growth flat, Microsoft Game Pass flat, Nintendo flat, Netflix flat, Disney flat, and others dwindling and being forced to merge or pull content.
Game studios are being shuttered faster than most places can keep count, and movie studios are canceling projects faster than ever before.
Consumer spending on entertainment is at a low and companies are struggling to react and adapt.
Flat preluding to a potential drop. I’ve found one can rotate subscriptions, can Netflix go Disney for a while, can Disney and go with Hulu as examples. Plus having a lot of subscriptions becomes burdensome, hard to keep track what is what coming out of one’s account. If a charge is legit etc.
My goal is to become subscription free or pretty close. I am sure others are trending towards that.
My goal is to become subscription free or pretty close. I am sure others are trending towards that.
Armenius
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I think that has more to do with the quality of the content they're putting out, along with discussion of a subject that belongs in Soapbox. The short of it without getting political is that more and more people are getting sick of large entertainment corporations attacking them. It used to be that the customer was always right. Now, the customer is always wrong.
StoleMyOwnCar
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I simply view a subscription as a value proposition like everything else. The impermanence of the games within, and the limited catalogue, are simply factors to determine whether the subscription is worth it for me or not.
Personally for 10$ a month, Gamepass has been a value proposition that is hard to deny. Even if all of the games on it were old or mediocre, that is hardly much of a fee to pay when the average indie game might cost 20$ these days. Which, it has plenty of good games on there. I have gotten much more playtime out of it than 10$ spent anywhere else would have gotten me, almost every month I've had it. My only real complaint about it is that they're not moddable. That really hurts the service. Plenty of games that do well with mods, and you can't do that. It sucks.
Otherwise I just treat it similarly to Gamefly.
I think Lakados has the right of it. The money boom is over. People are getting poorer. Layoffs are happening all over a lot of industries. It's hard to justify any consistent luxury budget. Video streaming platforms in particular really screwed themselves over with all of the content getting splintered out as it did. Video media lasts much less time than any equivalent game expenditure, though. I think Gamepass has been a good value proposition.
Personally for 10$ a month, Gamepass has been a value proposition that is hard to deny. Even if all of the games on it were old or mediocre, that is hardly much of a fee to pay when the average indie game might cost 20$ these days. Which, it has plenty of good games on there. I have gotten much more playtime out of it than 10$ spent anywhere else would have gotten me, almost every month I've had it. My only real complaint about it is that they're not moddable. That really hurts the service. Plenty of games that do well with mods, and you can't do that. It sucks.
Otherwise I just treat it similarly to Gamefly.
I think Lakados has the right of it. The money boom is over. People are getting poorer. Layoffs are happening all over a lot of industries. It's hard to justify any consistent luxury budget. Video streaming platforms in particular really screwed themselves over with all of the content getting splintered out as it did. Video media lasts much less time than any equivalent game expenditure, though. I think Gamepass has been a good value proposition.
The value proposition ceased being a factor for my gaming habits a long time ago. Not because I am stinking rich, but because anything that gets released has to compete for time with my insane backlog. It's fairly ridiculous; anything I pay for now could very well get its first serious looksie when we're well in the 2030's, if at all. Which means, of course, that any subscriptions would have been off the table even if I did find them acceptable.
I can't imagine I am the only one with this "problem" of having more than enough to play to last a few lifetimes. Why bother subscribing when one can play from one's own excellent backlog?
Sony raising the price of PS+ to $80 a year did not help them at all. Since then I've not seen any serious price deals on any of the usual sites. At one point I could get PS+ for $30-40 a year. That was barely worth it to me then. $60 let alone $80 is not.
Gamepass for PC might be worth it at $10 for me in some cases but it is very much a month by month thing and after awhile that just becomes annoying to deal with. To remember if and when I need to unsubscribe. I got bit for that with Paramount+ earlier this year when they lied about giving me 2 more free months and then charging me 3 days later after I had checked the account and let it roll since it was free for 2 more months. Paramount owes me $24 but I can't prove it so... no more business with them, except maybe via the high seas.
Gamepass for PC might be worth it at $10 for me in some cases but it is very much a month by month thing and after awhile that just becomes annoying to deal with. To remember if and when I need to unsubscribe. I got bit for that with Paramount+ earlier this year when they lied about giving me 2 more free months and then charging me 3 days later after I had checked the account and let it roll since it was free for 2 more months. Paramount owes me $24 but I can't prove it so... no more business with them, except maybe via the high seas.
T4rd
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Pretty much my stance on any game subs; I have enough of a backlog of games I'd like to play already that would prolly last me for the next few years minimum. Not even counting old games that I just like to revisit after a while because I liked them so much. So yeah, I see zero value in any game sub service. Gaming is far from my only hobby competing for my time too, so there's that and maybe I could see more value in it if that's all I did with my time off.
But I've told others that if they stopped making games altogether today, then I would still be fine with what's on the market already for the foreseeable future. So it's always funny to me when I listen to some gaming podcasts complaining about it being a "slow" year or something like that.
It's been taking me 2-4ish months to finish a game. I wait for sales instead of paying full price.
For example, I got Jagged Alliance 3 for under $40. It took me 4-5 months to finish it. There is no economic incentive for me to pay $10/mo subscription for games.
I'm about to fire up Civ 6 again - I've been playing it periodically since 2016. That would have been $900 in subscription fees at $10/mo over 7.5 years
For example, I got Jagged Alliance 3 for under $40. It took me 4-5 months to finish it. There is no economic incentive for me to pay $10/mo subscription for games.
I'm about to fire up Civ 6 again - I've been playing it periodically since 2016. That would have been $900 in subscription fees at $10/mo over 7.5 years
The other side of this is Game Pass itself is killing XBox game sales, there is a big internal fight over this at Microsoft currently because while subscription income is good and consistent it is flat and it is not covering the spread of game sales. So when a good game gets added to Game Pass the sales numbers for that title die, and Microsoft holds the studio responsible for that and ignores that Game Pass is not covering that spread, so Microsoft is directly "stealing" from their own developers then pointing their fingers at the developers when things go poorly, which given the current trends always do.
That just sound a gross impossible exaggeration.....
The idea that microsoft ignore the impact of GamePass on starfield sales....
https://gamerant.com/xbox-game-pass-cannibalizes-game-sales/
This sound like misrepresenting, hyperbolic people would say (or angry third party)
M76
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Except Starfield sales weren't just cannibalized by games pass, but generally unfavorable reviews.
They also might publicly say that while not taking it into account for internal decision making. These companies have too much of a yes man culture.
We as gamers, know it's true, game developers, and journalists know it's true. It is 100% true, but Microsoft in their infinite wisdom seems to believe that Game Pass subscriptions will soar and this will be a bygone issue in due time.
So at Microsoft, there are several very distinct camps about the current status of Game Pass, some calling for it to die, others calling for it to remain the same and get more titles, there are talks about a console version of WoW getting added to that mix, and a 3'rd that thinks it should be toned down to older titles and small indie title exclusively, things that are well past their peaks sales periods, as a Steam Sale sort of feature, not the primary title resource.
But many at Microsoft seem to think that Game Pass is not the problem, and sadly they are in some top positions and pretty entrenched in their beliefs that it's the other departments not working hard enough.
Yeah, these large companies don't seem to be noticing that the world economy is taking a fat, steaming dookie and people just aren't spending like they usually do. Subscriptions in general are absolutely not viable for many people right now.
The article is pointing out about internal documentation (during Activision trial discovery) of Microsoft talking about it.
Microsoft is one of the best run company in the history of the world filled with some of the most component employee on earth, nothing anyone ever come with on a message board will not have been obvious to them.
Darunion
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Anecdotal data from me, its warmer now where im at, started pausing subscriptions since i am not stuck inside as much now. I also don't buy many games in the spring/summer, once fall starts is when i pick up some and usually its sale time too
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Legendary Gamer
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I guess I am in the 1% that plays on his TVs and Projector. I'm probably 1/2 blind from spanking it to porn for 5 decades so
, I don't care if the refresh rate is only 60Hz.... or 30.... lol. My competitive gaming days are long over.I'm in that small percentage as well. I will switch between the monitor and the TV because my TV can do up to 4K 120 Hz, but I'm not delusional to think that everyone is doing what I'm doing. For games that have good controller support, I'll generally use the TV. For keyboard and mouse optimized games, that will 100% be the monitor every time.I guess I am in the 1% that plays on his TVs and Projector. I'm probably 1/2 blind from spanking it to porn for 5 decades so
Legendary Gamer
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I just started messing around with the X1000-4K Short throw ViewSonic projector, as a gift to myself after my relationship with the last gal went tits up. It's not perfect by any means, but at 140" on my wall Movies at 4K look incredible and my desktop in is not as distorted as I suspected it would be. I was able to correct most of that just by playing around with my windows settings. I haven't had any time but I really need to sit down in there and fire up a couple games at 4K to see what they look like. Movies played through the PC (MKV) look utterly stunning.
FYI I got it for around a grand - Paid 1200 for it on Amazon but if it's available on B&H or it's own website it goes for 1099. The new model only differs in that it's 1/2 the weight and 4 million to 1 contrast ratio vs 3 million. The price hike is over 3x for about the same device.
I highly recommend this thing if you want to tinker with an ultra short throw projector and you don't want to drop 2,500+ on a new laser unit.
I'm definitely interested in a projector someday. But my current 75" TV takes up the entire wall in my room, so there's no need for it right now.
Prince Valiant
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I don't want to burn hours on the lamp for it but turn based strategy would be a tempting target if I didI guess I am in the 1% that plays on his TVs and Projector. I'm probably 1/2 blind from spanking it to porn for 5 decades so
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Legendary Gamer
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Just for perspective, I replaced a 75" Samsung TV with the projector. Patched, Sanded and Eggshell Premium White Painted the wall to about 148" Diagonal, I need to drop the projector another inch or so to max it out ... but it's good enough at 140"... it just puts the my old TV to shame. Top Gun Maverick had my neighbor glued onto my couch. No need to go to a theater anymore. I was getting better blacks when It was on the Boathouse Brown but, it sucked up too much of the image. Looks spectacular on Eggshell White (56-70 bucks a gallon vs 300 for the metal reflective paints) you just have to make sure the wall is as flat and unflawed as possible.
Legendary Gamer
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The lamp is rated at 30,000 hours if IIRC. Burn away.I don't want to burn hours on the lamp for it but turn based strategy would be a tempting target if I did
Legendary Gamer
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This is probably not the thread for this convo. Sorry if I derailed the topic
I'm sure it looks amazing. And yeah, what you're projecting on makes a significant difference. I sometimes game or watch movies/shows in broad daylight though, and that's where projectors tend to suffer. My current Samsung NeoQLED TV has 2,000 nits of brightness. The sun could be shining directly on my TV and it wouldn't make a difference.
Yeah, OUR bad. Back to the convo.
Legendary Gamer
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Allegedly it's 2500 Lumens but I think it's only really rated at 1100 or so. It washes out with direct sunlight. I have blackout curtains, they are marvelous for operating the thing any time of the day.
Prince Valiant
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There are screens for rejecting a lot of ambient light but you do still need to control the room somewhat.
Not sure which part you find funny, people thinking that no one at Microsoft could have think that putting popular game on gamepass can cannibalise their sales on other channel or the idea that Microsoft under Nadella is one of the best run company in the history of the world ? When it is just impossible for that to be the case on its face, it is just way too obvious.
The 3 trillion company that should have listened to random internet people more and does not know what they are doing ?
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MavericK
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I ran an optical HDMI cable through the wall to my PC in the next room over, to my 73" LG OLED and have been playing games sitting on the couch with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Checkmate, atheists.I guess I am in the 1% that plays on his TVs and Projector. I'm probably 1/2 blind from spanking it to porn for 5 decades so
https://www.ghacks.net/2024/05/02/m...fix-kb5034441-0x80070643-error-on-windows-10/
Quality stuff. This looks like a prime example of them not knowing what they're doing. Or that Windows update that wiped people's data from their computers. Their quality control for Windows updates has been garbage for quite some time now. And the AI they're going to implement that is going to scrape data from every square inch of the OS and every app you use is also quality stuff from Microsoft that nobody asked for or wants.
Then again, if Windows wasn't such a steaming pile of crap, I'd be out of business. So ... yay?
How much billions will it cost them issues on 10 years old legacy OS ?
That is possibly the lamest response you could have made. Thank you.
Yes would be hard, but that possibly so much more complicated has an issue and less in the hands of the corporate boss than something has basic as possible canabilisation when you do direct competition to yourself, I could not fix the windows 10 update issue, I can come up with the canabilisation idea.
Who think so high of themselve that they think they could think about something that Microsoft could not ? It cannot be serious.
Do you really think that Nadella has not marvelously been run, multipled the company worth by like 12 despite not being well run ? Everyone I ever heard talk that worked there at high level say the complete opposite.