Stolen Package

Z

Zuriick

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
387
I sold a fairly expensive keyboard to a relatively new member. The transaction went super smoothly. We conversed, we were polite, and everything was orderly. He promptly paid for the keyboard and I shipped it as soon as I could.

I used FedEx 3 day, as always, and it got to him on time. I contacted him when it did, to be polite and see if he got it and if the keyboard was working etc etc. He didn't contact me for about 4 days then he responded. But, he said he never got the keyboard, even though it said it was delivered.

He said that he had just gotten back in town then stated that his apartment complex had a problem with people stealing packages. So, do I refund anything at all? I don't feel as if I should as once the package was out of my hands I had no control of it. Also the fact that I was not informed of his apartments problems doesn't help. I would've been find with having it held at the facility or what not.

Any wisdom would be great, as I've never had to deal with this.
 
That's a shitty situation but I don't see any reason you should feel compelled to offer a refund of any sort. It's not your fault it was stolen after it was delivered.
 
If he was out of town when expecting a package, it's his responsibility to inform you and FedEx to hold his packages at the facility. Many people who have homes hold their mail at the facility to keep their mail from spilling out of the mailbox while out of town. If he didn't pay you extra for insurance since packages are often stolen at his residence, then IMO it's on him.
 
i thought i had a 1tb drive stolen once. the tracking said it was left at: back porch. well, for 4 weeks i looked around the snow, bushes, everywhere until one day i just happened to notice the side porch - that nobody used and wasnt even on the side of the house- it was the front corner wide open to main st. just sitting there the whole time.

well, anyway the drive was fine. tell your buyer to look harder for the box and dont forget to leave positive heat! thanks have a great one!
 
I work at fedex as a courier, and we are not allowed to leave the package in apartment complex unless someone signs for it. Call 1-800-gofedex and talk to them, they should have a signature and last name of the person who signed for it. The driver should locate where he delivered the item, and get back to you with the info.

If they cant locate it, your package is insured up to $100 unless you bought insurance for greater value.
 
nope not your fault at all. he was expecting a package and Knew his complex had thefts and still went out of town. You shouldnt give a refund at all. He now is going to have to go through a LONG process with fedex to get his moeny back.

I had this happen with my laptop that got stolen off my porch. i was only gone an hour and believe me. i didnt get my Refund from ups for 2 months. the police even came back to my house 2 months later investigating everyone in the complex. I told the officer. "dont you think your a bit late?" shit its been 2 months im sure its long gone by now. lol
 
He was expecting a package, and he went outta town. WHO DOES THAT?? AND IF SO Why not require signature/ or have a neighbor sign for it? :confused::confused:

Not your fault at all...
 
krupted said:
i thought i had a 1tb drive stolen once. the tracking said it was left at: back porch. well, for 4 weeks i looked around the snow, bushes, everywhere until one day i just happened to notice the side porch - that nobody used and wasnt even on the side of the house- it was the front corner wide open to main st. just sitting there the whole time.

well, anyway the drive was fine. tell your buyer to look harder for the box and dont forget to leave positive heat! thanks have a great one!
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dude, he lives in an apartment complex, not a house, most apartment complexes I know of have only one main entrance, and if there is a second entrance like mine has, it's usually a fire escape, what delivery company is gonna leave a package on a fire escape...?

to the OP, he picked a bad time to be out of town, also, if his apartment complex has a problem with people stealing packages then it's up to him to let you know that BEFORE the package arrives so you can suggest some precautions to him or vice versa that may bump up the shipping cost, but prevent a total loss in such situations...

it also sounds fishy to me, after the fact he tells you about "the problem"...? sounds kinda like someone poking and prodding to see your response and gauge how guilty you may feel about it even though all the responsibility here lies with him...

I would take the steps that TurK-FX suggested, let the buyer know the results of the inquiry, let him take it from there and wash my hands of the whole matter after that, you owe him nothing...period, end of story...
 
TurK-FX said:
I work at fedex as a courier, and we are not allowed to leave the package in apartment complex unless someone signs for it. Call 1-800-gofedex and talk to them, they should have a signature and last name of the person who signed for it. The driver should locate where he delivered the item, and get back to you with the info.

If they cant locate it, your package is insured up to $100 unless you bought insurance for greater value.
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^^^^^^^This is what you need to do ASAP^^^^^^^
 
If you have fedex saying the package is delivered and it isnt sig required, its not your fault. You did your job, the package was sent and arrived at its destination. You are no longer responsible.

He should have notified FedEx that he was out of town and to not leave packages at his residence until said date!
 
Thank you for the information, mates. I am not giving him a refund, as much as it sucks. I wouldn't like being out 200 bones. I filed my claim but I also sent him an email saying that he needs to search on his own end. I gave him FedEx's number with directions on what to do.

I think it's safe to say that I didn't have to do all this.
 
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If memory serves, at apartments aren't packages usually left at the front office? If so, wouldn't there have to be someone in the office stealing tenant's parcels?

Follow up with the Turks advice and have him take a hard look at the leasing office.
 
FrEaKy said:
If you have fedex saying the package is delivered and it isnt sig required, its not your fault.
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Except that Paypal requires signature confirmation over a certain dollar amount; I want to say it's $250, so, the OP might just be at that line.

OP, you still haven't answered whether the item was signed for or not

To the people saying "no longer responsible once it gets to the destination", I say bullshit. You have the contract with the shipping company, not the receiver. Until its in the purchaser's hands, you are responsible. If the company you contracted with screws up, that's still on you, not the receiver. Can you imagine if there was a shipping problem when you ordered from newegg, and they said "get bent, call fedex, not our problem"?

More info is necessary to know the best way to proceed. The tracking number would be very helpful.
 
Sir_Loin said:
If memory serves, at apartments aren't packages usually left at the front office? If so, wouldn't there have to be someone in the office stealing tenant's parcels?

Follow up with the Turks advice and have him take a hard look at the leasing office.
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some apartment complex's offices aren't on site, especially if they manage several complexes...

what VA said makes sense, but it also a sure fire way to scam a seller and the shipping company as well, come home, pick up the package and then call the seller and say you never received it, it was stolen, etc., not saying that this is what happened, but this type of situation is a scammers dream, you have the package, the seller gets an insurance claim, and you get your money back as well, unscrupulous to say the least, but also a sure fire scam in the making, free stuff galore, I have yet to sell anything here, but if I do I am gonna make sure signature confirmation is definitely part of the deal...
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Except that Paypal requires signature confirmation over a certain dollar amount; I want to say it's $250, so, the OP might just be at that line.

OP, you still haven't answered whether the item was signed for or not

To the people saying "no longer responsible once it gets to the destination", I say bullshit. You have the contract with the shipping company, not the receiver. Until its in the purchaser's hands, you are responsible. If the company you contracted with screws up, that's still on you, not the receiver. Can you imagine if there was a shipping problem when you ordered from newegg, and they said "get bent, call fedex, not our problem"?

More info is necessary to know the best way to proceed. The tracking number would be very helpful.
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Signature not required during drop off. I always have a signature confirmation put in place when I ship something through a local shipping company (human error?).

Tracking number was 830584910002611 and the total came to 192 something.

I don't see why I should refund money if he failed to relay that his apt complex was susceptible to theft. Also, the idea that he waited 4 days before contacting me asking advice on how to handle it. If I didn't receive a package on the day FedEx said that it was delivered, I'd be calling and firing off emails.
 
Zuriick said:
Signature not required during drop off. I always have a signature confirmation put in place when I ship something through a local shipping company (human error?).

Tracking number was 830584910002611 and the total came to 192 something.

I don't see why I should refund money if he failed to relay that his apt complex was susceptible to theft. Also, the idea that he waited 4 days before contacting me asking advice on how to handle it. If I didn't receive a package on the day FedEx said that it was delivered, I'd be calling and firing off emails.
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I agree about the "susceptible to theft" part, his fault for not relaying that information to you beforehand, if my complex had that problem that would be the first thing that came up in any deal I made...

also, I thought you said that he said he was out of town...? that explains why he didn't call, but this all still sounds fishy to me...

HE know that packages are susceptible to theft in HIS complex and HE don't inform the seller/shipper...? then to make a bad situation worse HE leave town...? sounds pretty scamtastic or just flat out stupid to me...

not your fault, that's all on him...
 
Sir_Loin said:
If memory serves, at apartments aren't packages usually left at the front office? If so, wouldn't there have to be someone in the office stealing tenant's parcels?

Follow up with the Turks advice and have him take a hard look at the leasing office.
Click to expand...

this is how it is at my place, but i live in a high rise. i've still had one package stolen because dhl left it in front of my door. good job dhl :p. course thats the rental office's fault cause they pissed off dhl so they no longer wanted to bring the packages there.
 
Choder said:
That's a shitty situation but I don't see any reason you should feel compelled to offer a refund of any sort. It's not your fault it was stolen after it was delivered.
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This x10. HIS package (post-delivery) was stolen from HIS apartment complex. It's therefore HIS fault, not yours.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Except that Paypal requires signature confirmation over a certain dollar amount; I want to say it's $250, so, the OP might just be at that line.

OP, you still haven't answered whether the item was signed for or not

To the people saying "no longer responsible once it gets to the destination", I say bullshit. You have the contract with the shipping company, not the receiver. Until its in the purchaser's hands, you are responsible. If the company you contracted with screws up, that's still on you, not the receiver. Can you imagine if there was a shipping problem when you ordered from newegg, and they said "get bent, call fedex, not our problem"?

More info is necessary to know the best way to proceed. The tracking number would be very helpful.
Click to expand...

I'd say that this applies in most cases, but not here, there is a reasonable amount of negligence on the buyers part, hell, not a reasonable amount, an egregious amount of negligence that could have prevented all this, shippers can't possibly know or even guess the type of environment people live in, such details have to be provided by the buyer...

I can't remember if it was FedEx or UPS, but I bought some PI Blacks on here and the delivery guy misread the apt number, he delivered to 5B instead of 5D, understandable I guess because a capital B can look like a D at first glance, after I called and asked why the tracking said "delivered" and it wasn't at my door the delivery guy on the next shift went out, found my package and brought it over to me...

another time a package came a day later because the delivery guy thought the 5D was 50, also understandable, and the delivery guy brought it back saying it was undeliverable because there was no apt "50" in the complex...

so from now on, even if it's shipped USPS (I've never had a problem with my mailman confusing this) just to be safe I ask the seller to print or type a lower case d on the apt number so as to not confuse the delivery guy, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the buyer has responsibilities as well if he knows there could be a potential problem that the seller would have no idea about, package theft is definitely high on that list of "potential problems"...
 
wol-va-rine said:
some apartment complex's offices aren't on site, especially if they manage several complexes...

what VA said makes sense, but it also a sure fire way to scam a seller and the shipping company as well, come home, pick up the package and then call the seller and say you never received it, it was stolen, etc., not saying that this is what happened, but this type of situation is a scammers dream, you have the package, the seller gets an insurance claim, and you get your money back as well, unscrupulous to say the least, but also a sure fire scam in the making, free stuff galore, I have yet to sell anything here, but if I do I am gonna make sure signature confirmation is definitely part of the deal...
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Exactly. Which is why the shipper should always require a signature. It is for your own protection. If you do not get signature and something happens, it's on you. If it's signed for and the buyer still claims he didn't get it, there is recourse via FedEx and insurance, or at the very least evidence of what sort of fraud may or may not have happened.

Zuriick said:
I don't see why I should refund money if he failed to relay that his apt complex was susceptible to theft. Also, the idea that he waited 4 days before contacting me asking advice on how to handle it. If I didn't receive a package on the day FedEx said that it was delivered, I'd be calling and firing off emails.
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Any apartment complex, house, etc is susceptible to theft. Period. If you ship without requiring a signature, you deal with the consequences when something happens.

wol-va-rine said:
I'd say that this applies in most cases, but not here, there is a reasonable amount of negligence on the buyers part, hell, not a reasonable amount, an egregious amount of negligence that could have prevented all this, shippers can't possibly know or even guess the type of environment people live in, such details have to be provided by the buyer...
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Is it possible that the buyer was not expecting the package to be left?


All of you are 100% correct that it's not possible to know at this point whether the buyer is pulling a fast one or a real theft occurred. But the shipper did not take the required step to prevent this ambiguity.

The only way I can see this being the buyer's fault is if the seller had asked "do I need to require a signature or not?" and the buyer responded that things were fine, don't worry about it.


It's the exact same situation as when someone ships an item without delivery confirmation, and the buyer says they didn't receive it. You've got nothing to go on either way except their word, so the right thing to do is refund.
 
The tracking shows...

"Left on porch. Signature Service not requested."
 
Zuriick said:
Signature not required during drop off. I always have a signature confirmation put in place when I ship something through a local shipping company (human error?).

Tracking number was 830584910002611 and the total came to 192 something.

I don't see why I should refund money if he failed to relay that his apt complex was susceptible to theft. Also, the idea that he waited 4 days before contacting me asking advice on how to handle it. If I didn't receive a package on the day FedEx said that it was delivered, I'd be calling and firing off emails.
Click to expand...

I believe the sender has to initiate any claims for FedEx, not the buyer.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Except that Paypal requires signature confirmation over a certain dollar amount; I want to say it's $250, so, the OP might just be at that line.

OP, you still haven't answered whether the item was signed for or not

To the people saying "no longer responsible once it gets to the destination", I say bullshit. You have the contract with the shipping company, not the receiver. Until its in the purchaser's hands, you are responsible. If the company you contracted with screws up, that's still on you, not the receiver. Can you imagine if there was a shipping problem when you ordered from newegg, and they said "get bent, call fedex, not our problem"?

More info is necessary to know the best way to proceed. The tracking number would be very helpful.
Click to expand...
Why should the OP be responsible for the security of the destination? Should he refund him if he took the package in the apartment, left for an hour and found the apartment burglarized? There has to be some sort of personal responsibility on the buyer's part when he's going to be gone for four days AND knows of security problems. The contract between the seller and the delivery service ends when it is delivered.

This all sounds to fishy to me. I would not voluntary refund the money and let paypal handle it if necessary.
 
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osrk said:
Why should the OP be responsible for the security of the destination? Should he refund him if he took the package in the apartment, left for an hour and found the apartment burglarized? There has to be some sort of personal responsibility on the buyer's part when he's going to be gone for four days AND knows of security problems. The contract between the seller and the delivery service ends when it is delivered.

This all sounds to fishy to me. I would not voluntary refund the money and let paypal handle it if necessary.
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believe paypal wants signature confirmation for seller to keep money... otherwise they will (almost always) refund the buyer on a dispute... sry for OP to hear this...
 
I believe since the item is less than 250, paypal will side with the OP in case of a dispute
 
My worst nightmare when buying from the forums. This happened to me with a brand new GTX260 from Newegg. UPS Driver left it at my front door (I live in the city, not the best idea) and I never saw the package.

Even Newegg made me wait until the dispute went through and yes the shipper needs to file a dispute. It's the drivers fault. They are only supposed to leave it if the feel that it is in a safe place.

This is exactly why I would never ship a package without shipping insurance. I'm going to have to start using delivery confirmation after reading this thread.
 
I filed a dispute with FedEx yesterday. If I get insurance money out of it then I will gladly give him that money.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Exactly. Which is why the shipper should always require a signature. It is for your own protection. If you do not get signature and something happens, it's on you. If it's signed for and the buyer still claims he didn't get it, there is recourse via FedEx and insurance, or at the very least evidence of what sort of fraud may or may not have happened.



Any apartment complex, house, etc is susceptible to theft. Period. If you ship without requiring a signature, you deal with the consequences when something happens.



Is it possible that the buyer was not expecting the package to be left?


All of you are 100% correct that it's not possible to know at this point whether the buyer is pulling a fast one or a real theft occurred. But the shipper did not take the required step to prevent this ambiguity.

The only way I can see this being the buyer's fault is if the seller had asked "do I need to require a signature or not?" and the buyer responded that things were fine, don't worry about it.


It's the exact same situation as when someone ships an item without delivery confirmation, and the buyer says they didn't receive it. You've got nothing to go on either way except their word, so the right thing to do is refund.
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every package is susceptible to theft, yes, that's a given, but the situation here is that the buyer knew of an existing condition that put the package at a greater risk of being stolen and failed to relay that information to the seller, that is just an unacceptable lack of communication, knowing this and then leaving to go out of town when expecting a package is even more suspicious and waiting four days to inform the sender given the circumstances is just the icing on the cake...

horrible, horrible trading practices, I don't trade much but even I have more common sense than that, he may get his money in a dispute but I would never do business with him, there's only two options here, he's either really, really stupid or really, really shady...
 
Zuriick said:
I filed a dispute with FedEx yesterday. If I get insurance money out of it then I will gladly give him that money.
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I think that is more than fair. Did you take out insurance on the package?

wol-va-rine said:
every package is susceptible to theft, yes, that's a given, but the situation here is that the buyer knew of an existing condition that put the package at a greater risk of being stolen and failed to relay that information to the seller, that is just an unacceptable lack of communication, knowing this and then leaving to go out of town when expecting a package is even more suspicious and waiting four days to inform the sender given the circumstances is just the icing on the cake...

horrible, horrible trading practices, I don't trade much but even I have more common sense than that, he may get his money in a dispute but I would never do business with him, there's only two options here, he's either really, really stupid or really, really shady...
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I have to agree. Waiting a few days after the delivery date to notify the seller of a "stolen package" is unacceptable.
 
How could he go one day? I used to live at XXX address lane, and XXX address Road was right across the street. UPS left my first newegg purchase from that address at road. It was marked online as delivered, but of course I didn't have it. I was on the phone THAT DAY talking to UPS asking where the package was. Who in their right mind waits FOUR days with the tracking number saying its delivered before calling? He either has NO spare time, or something is wrong.

The problem is unless insurance was taken on it, your going to get screwed. $100 is auto, but the price for this was $200+? Guess who gets to make up that difference. I don't see this ending good for the OP.
 
if buyer was out of town, until 4 days after the item was delivered, how could he respond sooner?

although I do agree that if you're planning on receiving a package, at a location you know is known to have stuff stolen, then it's your fault for being gone when the package arrives. No doubt about that one.
 
I have found this one kind of interesting because there's a pretty useful lesson, here. It is the buyer that understands his own circumstances best and has to be responsible for letting the seller know about any "special needs." In an apartment complex that DOESN'T have secure delivery arrangements, the seller needs to request signature confirmation, hold at depot or whatever he knows will work best.

If the buyer doesn't do that, he owns the consequences.
 
ickywu said:
I have found this one kind of interesting because there's a pretty useful lesson, here. It is the buyer that understands his own circumstances best and has to be responsible for letting the seller know about any "special needs." In an apartment complex that DOESN'T have secure delivery arrangements, the seller needs to request signature confirmation, hold at depot or whatever he knows will work best.

If the buyer doesn't do that, he owns the consequences.
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interesting isn't the word I would use, more like negligent, and that's assuming the best case scenario here...
 
OK, let's see here...
  • Seller promptly ships package via FedEx which has built in tracking, similar to USPS with Delivery Confirmation (what I use)

  • FedEx tracking shows item as "delivered"

  • Buyer does NOT inform seller until, after the fact, that he will be away for days when the package is scheduled to be delivered.

  • Buyer does NOT make alternate arrangements to either have FedEx hold the package or have a friend/family member receive it when delivered.

  • Buyer does NOT inform seller, until after the fact, that his residence has a history of package theft.

  • Buyer does NOT contact or respond for 4 days AFTER package is delivered to ask seller "Where it at?"

Am I missing something here?:confused:
 
I always ship insured with signature conformation. It doesn't cost but a few bucks more and gives both parties peace on mind.

I try to use FedEx because as stated before,the first $100 is included.
 
justbsn2 said:
I always ship insured with signature conformation. It doesn't cost but a few bucks more and gives both parties peace on mind.

I try to use FedEx because as stated before,the first $100 is included.
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Your post mentions the key to this problem.

I have bought and sold for years on Ebay and you as the seller and shipper have to cover yourself and REQUIRE signature confirmation to protect yourself in cases like this.
Not only could the package get lost or stolen but also there are scammers out there who will claim they didnt receive the package even thought they did.

The seller is the one who sets up shipping and does have a certain responsibility to make sure it gets to the buyer and can also verify that the buyer has received it.
 
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