Steam Removes Game From User Libraries

So all of you that have purchased an MMO through steam. Lets say you decided to play with your build on a stand alone server. IS it ok for valve to come along and delete your copy of the game once the games publish says it is dead?

Really?

This is NOT ok and needs to be seen as such by the people who purchased the game. It is the first steps to a very dark path.

Lets say you buy whatever FPS version 6 of some game. It's awesome but requires online validation to even work. Ok no bigs steam sale you buy the game for 10 bucks or whatever and play it for a while. You even find modded non standard servers to play on. (not supported.) And you enjoy it. But lo and behold the publisher (lets call them EA) says.. Hey steam.. kill this game. You can't host it or distribute it any more.

Steam kills the game. It is DELETED off of your system without your consent.

Here is the question. Did you loose something by being denied access to an unsupported server running the game not by the publisher?

I say yes.

Yet the license you click through disagrees.
 
techrat said:
A grey market copy of a game was a game illegally purchased outside of the country the steam code was released for.

You did this to save a few bucks. Valve did not remove the game from Steam. They disabled your illegal copy.
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It's still a disputable topic regarding legality. Burning bridges to customer relations & allowing publishers to define what is legal is absolute bullshit.
 
techrat said:
A grey market copy of a game was a game illegally purchased outside of the country the steam code was released for.

You did this to save a few bucks. Valve did not remove the game from Steam. They disabled your illegal copy.
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Buying a game from another country = illegal? Ya if the key was stolen. But Valve can't prove that.
 
03grandam said:
If I had the game on a physical disk would someone come to my house in the middle of the night and steal it from me cause the servers shut down and made my game worthless? NO. ;)
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Funny you mention that. The one time I decided to read a EULA to a game I bought, it specifically said that after installing the game, you agreed that the company retained the right to send someone to your house to uninstall it from your computer and take the physical product, for any reason or no reason at all, and you are not necessarily entitled to a refund. The only thing the company would do is notify you ahead of time if you were registered on their site.

I've also seen EULA's that have said that you already agreed to the EULA by opening the box to the product. You didn't even have to use the product or install it.

Granted neither of those may hold up in a courtroom, but the fact that they'll put just about anything in a EULA is scary.
 
Dion said:
Buying a game from another country = illegal? Ya if the key was stolen. But Valve can't prove that.
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The publisher can report stolen keys to Valve and request for used keys to be disabled.

I've seen it happen before with people buying keys from shady sites in russia. I have no doubt SamuraiInBlack would be stupid enough to do such.
 
Grimlaking said:
So all of you that have purchased an MMO through steam. Lets say you decided to play with your build on a stand alone server. IS it ok for valve to come along and delete your copy of the game once the games publish says it is dead?

Really?

This is NOT ok and needs to be seen as such by the people who purchased the game. It is the first steps to a very dark path.

Lets say you buy whatever FPS version 6 of some game. It's awesome but requires online validation to even work. Ok no bigs steam sale you buy the game for 10 bucks or whatever and play it for a while. You even find modded non standard servers to play on. (not supported.) And you enjoy it. But lo and behold the publisher (lets call them EA) says.. Hey steam.. kill this game. You can't host it or distribute it any more.

Steam kills the game. It is DELETED off of your system without your consent.

Here is the question. Did you loose something by being denied access to an unsupported server running the game not by the publisher?

I say yes.

Yet the license you click through disagrees.
Click to expand...
You do realize that playing on private servers are illegal. Valve is not obligated to support that.

If you want to dispute that, you'll have to take it up with the owner of the game. Until they say otherwise, it remains illegal and Valve cannot support it.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Yea, Gamestop isn't going to call you up 3 years after you bought a game there to tell you Square Enix is going to completely terminate all working copies. You "bought" the license from SE, not Valve.
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True but Gamestop is not going to go to your house and take back your game. Both companies are wrong and both are responsible.
 
Hornet said:
You do realize that playing on private servers are illegal. Valve is not obligated to support that.

If you want to dispute that, you'll have to take it up with the owner of the game. Until they say otherwise, it remains illegal and Valve cannot support it.
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Valve wouldn't be supporting it. Once you bought the game and have it downloaded Valve no longer has shit to do with it. If I chose to play on private unsupported servers that is my choice and my problem to deal with as far as legality.
 
Maybe Valve is pursuing a refund with SE.. And if they can get the refund for the original then they can refund the people who bought it.. They are kinda stuck in a situation like this so while I dont completely agree with removing the game I do understand it..
 
03grandam said:
Valve wouldn't be supporting it. Once you bought the game and have it downloaded Valve no longer has shit to do with it. If I chose to play on private unsupported servers that is my choice and my problem to deal with as far as legality.
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That isn't necessarily true ... that is YOUR choice with a physical copy (note that you are still breaking the EULA by doing that) but with a hosted digital copy the distributor may be somewhat responsible for what happens with their hosted copies (and you must accept the Steam EULA to use their service, so you are bound by their rules as well) ... Steam would not permit you to use cracked copies of a game with your Steam account either (even though that is possible and generally undetectable with physical copies) ... for right or wrong you cannot hold digital copies to the same measuring stick as a physical copy (which is why some companies now only sell digital) ... if you want to violate the EULA or DMCA then go physical, if you go digital then be prepared to follow the rules applied to digital software (or risk the wrath of distributor, developer, and publisher) ... on the upside we usually get better pricing on digital to offset the more enforceable rules ;)

Again, I think this story is more about click bait than actual risk ... except for MMOs or other primarily multiplayer games there is unlikely to be more games that become bricks like this one ... as long as Steam was in compliance with their user and publisher contracts on this I don't see the problem here ... if this is something you are significantly concerned with then only use GOG (which has no DRM but fewer titles) :cool:
 
bastage said:
Maybe Valve is pursuing a refund with SE.. And if they can get the refund for the original then they can refund the people who bought it.. They are kinda stuck in a situation like this so while I dont completely agree with removing the game I do understand it..
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Or maybe nobody is getting a refund... You buy a multiplayer game hosted by a company you should not expect your money back when it goes belly up.
 
I have not read all the comments but I want to know if valve sent a message to the users explaining the situation. One thing I find very annoying about steam is the lack of control on some aspects of my library and games. I and most of my friends have at least 100 games in our library and there is no way we would know if one went missing if we were not sent a steam message or email.

Some other things that piss me off about steam and games libraries are:

Why can't I remove some things from my library. I don't want the damn TF2 beta always their to confuse people or simply take up a space.
I did play alien swarm but because it is some sort of free game they never keep it in my library as a game I can play. Instead every time I format it disappears and I have to go find it again if I remember.
Having a game I thought I owned disappear on me would piss me off, and I would have something to say to square enix or another other company if that happened. Unfortunately I probably would not know till it was too late. If I knew about it I think I would go make some comments on facebook or something to generate some bad publicity for them.
 
Advil said:
Sooner or later this issue is going to get really major as games designed only for windows xp start having major issues with late gen OSs. Unless Valve gets into the automatic transparent emulator business some of the games are just going to stop working.
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To be honest, this was something I've never really thought too much about. I know that it's happened, but a fix or a patch came out to fix it. But, some older games don't run on the newer OS's (be it a 16-bit game running on a 64-bit OS, or using an older DX version or just something completely unrelated). That shouldn't be taken out of the library, though, as some people might still use that outdated OS... Very valid concern, though. I'll have to keep that in mind from now on. Usually when looking at system requirements, you looking to see if your computer is fast or new enough to play the game. Sometimes, it's the opposite. You need to see if your hardware will run the older software...
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
It's still a disputable topic regarding legality. Burning bridges to customer relations & allowing publishers to define what is legal is absolute bullshit.
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Burning bridges with your publishers can be equally if not more devastating to your business.
 
I think this is bullshit. You shouldn't be able to sell a game, that you can just shutdown and force people to not play it. If you are going to shut down the servers and make a game bought unplayable because of your always-on DRM, then you need to remove the DRM, and make it offline playable. Period.
 
Warrior said:
I think this is bullshit. You shouldn't be able to sell a game, that you can just shutdown and force people to not play it. If you are going to shut down the servers and make a game bought unplayable because of your always-on DRM, then you need to remove the DRM, and make it offline playable. Period.
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Has anyone even heard of this game prior to now? My assumption would be that removing the game from existence and dealing with the backlash from the very small amount of people affected is much less costly than stripping the DRM from the game. I guess it depends on how intricately the DRM was interwoven with the games code.

Not saying it's right... just saying that from a dollars and cents standpoint, SE probably saw this as the more sensible option.
 
Viper87227 said:
Has anyone even heard of this game prior to now? My assumption would be that removing the game from existence and dealing with the backlash from the very small amount of people affected is much less costly than stripping the DRM from the game. I guess it depends on how intricately the DRM was interwoven with the games code.

Not saying it's right... just saying that from a dollars and cents standpoint, SE probably saw this as the more sensible option.
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The way I see it? Requiring a non-subscription game to constantly communicate with a server, without making provisions to remove the DRM if/when the server is permanently shutdown, is akin to selling a product with intent to defraud.
 
Warrior said:
I think this is bullshit. You shouldn't be able to sell a game, that you can just shutdown and force people to not play it. If you are going to shut down the servers and make a game bought unplayable because of your always-on DRM, then you need to remove the DRM, and make it offline playable. Period.
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So you think every single MMO and multiplayer game is just required to stay online forever?
 
Come ON people, try to be sane here.

If Valve ever removes a game that can still be played somehow I'll get on the "lynch Valve" bandwagon with you all.

But the developer shut down the servers. The game is dead. Valve is going to have to field tech support questions about why the game doesn't work. The host company is DEAD.

Customer: "Valve, the old game I just reinstalled doesn't work."
Valve: "Have you contacted the developer?"
Customer: "Can't find a way to contact them."
Valve: "Sorry, not much we can do then."
Customer: "Isn't the game not working at all sort of your responsibility too?"
Valve: "Let me check the game... .. .. .. ok it required DRM from the developer's servers to work and they have shut the servers off so there is no way to play."
Customer: "Is there anything that can be done?"
Valve: "No. I'm sorry."
Customer: "Why did I just waste hours of my time downloading and installing this huge game then and your time asking you all this just to find out the game will never work?"
Valve: "Because people complain if we remove anything from the library."

See the problem?

Would it make everyone happy if Valve just moved dead games to a "dead games" list that shows you originally owned it but you can't download or launch it? At least then you could click on it and get a reason why you can't play?
 
Update: It appears that contrary to what I first believed, the single-player portion of the game—Order of War without the “Challenge”—is still available on Steam, and only the multi-player content has been removed.

That’s good, and changes some of the details in the above post. But my larger point still stands: Single-player games that have always-online DRM attached are inherently at the mercy of the servers’ longevity, having an internet connection to begin with, etc. That’s a problem that complicates the notion of digital ownership.
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The story has since change. Only the multiplayer was removed, single player is still there and working. Story was BS from the start in a way.
 
Disposed said:
So you think every single MMO and multiplayer game is just required to stay online forever?
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yes... Yes I do.

Let me give you an example.

I play the OLDEST MMO ever. Tibia. And it's still alive an kicking, and new stuff is added all the time. Abandoning a game from development pisses me off...

And, they still get my money, imagine that.
 
Exavior said:
The story has since change. Only the multiplayer was removed, single player is still there and working. Story was BS from the start in a way.
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Knowing this now, they made the right choice.
 
Exavior said:
The story has since change. Only the multiplayer was removed, single player is still there and working. Story was BS from the start in a way.
Click to expand...

Well that was a whole lot of fuss about nothing. Multiplayer games don't last forever, that's a given. Anyone who expects them to is disillusion. As long as the single player remains functional, there's nothing out of the ordinary here.
 
Warrior said:
yes... Yes I do.

Let me give you an example.

I play the OLDEST MMO ever. Tibia. And it's still alive an kicking, and new stuff is added all the time. Abandoning a game from development pisses me off...

And, they still get my money, imagine that.
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Tibia is not the oldest MMO ever lmao. I was playing nexus TK before tibia ever existed. What money is tibia getting BTW? I dont recall there ever being anything that cost money.
 
WHAT THE FUCK STEAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
 
Warrior said:
http://www.examiner.com/article/tibia-the-game-a-summary-of-one-of-the-oldest-mmorpgs-the-world

Nexus TK NA Release 98

Tibia release 1997
:rolleyes:


Oh, and I have Premium. Which again, if you knew anything about Tibia you would know makes the game much better..
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FYI nexus was released in 1996 in Korea shortly after an English beta came out right before 1997. Second even the fucking article YOU LINKED said ONE OF the oldest. So you result to personal insults with wrong information and your own fucking source proves you wrong.

Not only are you wrong you where smug and condescending about it.

Bravo sir, bravo.

Oh and for bonus points.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_59

2 years before your "first mmo ever"
 
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Oh and i guess the realm online is older and still running too. Damn...
 
I know what I linked... Hmm, so you're saying you played a Korean game? If so that's amazing... Cause if not, I said "NA" which people with reading comprehension know to be North American, as in the English version. Unless you played this English version before it was released almost 2 years before the NA version.

You make claims that you played it before Tibia existed... And that version was Korean, so you played a Korean version? Something tells me you're full of shit...
 
Now you're gonna say how much you played the beta on your 14.4k modem...
 
Warrior said:
I know what I linked... Hmm, so you're saying you played a Korean game? If so that's amazing... Cause if not, I said "NA" which people with reading comprehension know to be North American, as in the English version. Unless you played this English version before it was released almost 2 years before the NA version.

You make claims that you played it before Tibia existed... And that version was Korean, so you played a Korean version? Something tells me you're full of shit...
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Forsaken World is originally from China, People here in North America have played the Chinese version over the American version before it was even in public beta. Some people here STILL play the CN version over NA, because the CN version is actually up to date, and far less expensive cash shop wise on some items, whereas the NA version is at least 6 months behind on patches, and the cash shop is based on the idea that us Americans love to gamble instead of actually getting things we want in the first place.

It's not a shocker if someone actually plays the original version of a game, regardless if they understand the language or not.
 
Jesus... I'm not going to get more off topic... My original point still stands, that old games have plenty of life, and they should be always work for the consumer. No one would buy a game if they knew that they couldn't play it eventually.

But as a previous poster posted, (which I hope is right...) the game's single player was still working. Soo, now Steam has to figure that out.... Which is what the topic should be about now.

The multi-player is dead, servers are killed, but the single player still works. Steam deleted the game from library's..... How should Steam go about this now? I wonder if they even know the single player is functional...
 
Warrior said:
I know what I linked... Hmm, so you're saying you played a Korean game? If so that's amazing... Cause if not, I said "NA" which people with reading comprehension know to be North American, as in the English version. Unless you played this English version before it was released almost 2 years before the NA version.

You make claims that you played it before Tibia existed... And that version was Korean, so you played a Korean version? Something tells me you're full of shit...
Click to expand...

You dont know what the fuck you are talking about. You read on wikipedia that the korean version launched and just seem to assume thats all there ever was until 98. The European English beta client came in late 96 early 97. I played on that and actually never played the NA launch because it was pretty shitty at first.

I know this may surprise you but North America is not where the English language originated from. :rolleyes:

Warrior said:
Now you're gonna say how much you played the beta on your 14.4k modem...
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56k... Over juno in fact because thats what i used until 99 when i finally got cable in my neighborhood.

So just to sum it up, you have been dead wrong on every single claim you have made thus far and as a result called ME a retard and insulted MY reading comprehension while asserting English automatically means North America completely discounting the country English originated in? :rolleyes:

Am i missing anything else?


Warrior said:
Jesus... I'm not going to get more off topic... My original point still stands, that old games have plenty of life, and they should be always work for the consumer. No one would buy a game if they knew that they couldn't play it eventually.
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So you are just back to making the claim that publishers should be required to indefinitely host multiplayer servers? Thats because bandwidth is free and servers run on fairy dust right?
 
Warrior said:
Jesus... I'm not going to get more off topic... My original point still stands, that old games have plenty of life, and they should be always work for the consumer. No one would buy a game if they knew that they couldn't play it eventually.

But as a previous poster posted, (which I hope is right...) the game's single player was still working. Soo, now Steam has to figure that out.... Which is what the topic should be about now.

The multi-player is dead, servers are killed, but the single player still works. Steam deleted the game from library's..... How should Steam go about this now? I wonder if they even know the single player is functional...
Click to expand...

That isn't something new though, especially when it comes to PC games. As you upgrade hardware and OSs versions you start to lose the ability to play games. You have your old dos games that were pretty much coded to run at whatever it could back then on older computers, try to run the game on today's hardware and there is nothing in there to control the loops of the code per second so you end up with everything going super fast making the game unplayable. you have games that can't / won't run on anything beyond windows 9X or games that won't run on anything above XP... There are tons of other examples of games that you can't play anymore. Sports games that only keep so many year's worth of servers up and running...

Now I am the one that you referred about the update. And there is nothing for them to add back as the original article was incorrect. Here is what happen, There are 2 games here that are being talked about Order of War and a game that came out 1 year later Order of War: Challenge. Order of War is a single player game, they then made a multiplayer version (add-on whatever you want to call it) and released that as Order of War: Challenge. The game that lost its server is Order of War: Challenge, that is the game that was removed from the clients. That game is 100% online multiplayer. The single player game Order of War is still out there and still can be played, and it was never removed from anything.
 
I would never use steam or a cloud based server it's total bs. Honestly I hope everyone of you that uses steam gets all your games deleted and steam goes out of business to teach you all a lesson and not promote this cloud industry.
 
yelsewshane said:
I would never use steam or a cloud based server it's total bs. Honestly I hope everyone of you that uses steam gets all your games deleted and steam goes out of business to teach you all a lesson and not promote this cloud industry.
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If Steam and all products like Steam went out of business, it would be because PC gaming is pretty much dead, especially given you can barely buy PC games in retail stores anymore.
 
yelsewshane said:
I would never use steam or a cloud based server it's total bs. Honestly I hope everyone of you that uses steam gets all your games deleted and steam goes out of business to teach you all a lesson and not promote this cloud industry.
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There has to be a happy medium ... we can certainly encourage developers, distributors, and publishers to try and make the cloud services more user friendly ... as Tudz indicated, a death of cloud would likely indicate a death of PC gaming (unless that is your overall goal) ... digital cloud distribution has created a boom in PC gaming (especially for indie developers) ... if digital distribution went away the developers would likely go for console games since those are more popular in physical media and higher profit for them ...

technology marches forward and games and gamers adjust to new technologies (as we always have) ... cloud distribution has many positives and some negatives ... let's try and heal the patient not just start pulling out all the wires and tubes on his machines ;)
 
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