StarForce games will not work on Vista!

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acidfr33k

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
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Vista will not allow Ring 0 "rootkit" StarForce to run; failing copy protection checks and not allowing the game to run !!

From ExtremeTech:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1969002,00.asp


There appear to be two big problems, from our admittedly limited testing. The first is StarForce copy protection. Its reliance on a hidden Ring 0 driver causes a compatibility problem with Vista that prevents games using StarForce from loading – at least, that's the best explanation we can come up with for the errors we found. It's very disappointing that there hasn't been a fix for this so far. The driver requirements of Vista have been known for quite a long time, and both Microsoft and games publishers should have been pressuring StarForce for a proper Vista driver since at least last summer.
 
They'll either have to change how their product works or that'll be the end of Starforce. Hopefully the latter happens.
 
It's too late to make changes to games already shipping..

Unless they release patches for all SF games removing the protection ?
 
acidfr33k said:
It's too late to make changes to games already shipping..

Unless they release patches for all SF games removing the protection ?
Click to expand...
That will probably be the only way barring major changes to Vista (unlikely).
 
Thus far I have not had any problems with Starforce. I have Deamon Tools and Alcohol running on my rigs and Toca 3 runs fine, mounted BF2 runs fine, Track Mania EASW runs fine.
 
Well, you're in the minority. Starforce with Beta 2 = no go :) Starforce is a piece of crap that is not being used in future releases by Ubisoft and CDV.

From Extreme Tech Article said:
Both Ubisoft and CDV, the two largest users of StarForce protection, have announced they're dropping the controversial content protection scheme.
Click to expand...


From Extreme Tech Article said:
What's worse, the StarForce driver will try (and fail) to load every time you reboot, even if you uninstall the game, and the removal tool doesn't work properly by default. It doesn't give you any indication that it didn't work, however. You have to run it as an administrator by accessing the Compatibility tab in the removal tool's Properties menu. Visually, it looks like it's doing the same thing as when you don't run it as an admin, but it will at least get StarForce off your system.
Click to expand...
 
kuyaglen said:
Thus far I have not had any problems with Starforce. I have Deamon Tools and Alcohol running on my rigs and Toca 3 runs fine, mounted BF2 runs fine, Track Mania EASW runs fine.
Click to expand...


you must be blessed by the computer gods.
 
kuyaglen said:
Thus far I have not had any problems with Starforce. I have Deamon Tools and Alcohol running on my rigs and Toca 3 runs fine, mounted BF2 runs fine, Track Mania EASW runs fine.
Click to expand...

BF2 doesn't use starforce; I think it uses safedisc.
 
Starforce/MS will patch it or publishers will start offering patches for the game to no longer need starforce.

New version of starforce will come. Personally rather see it go :D
 
Netrat33 said:
Starforce/MS will patch it or publishers will start offering patches for the game to no longer need starforce.
Click to expand...

Second option is more likely, I think.. I can't imagine game publishers ignoring an issue this big.. I just hope it'll cost them enough to consider drawing a "too intrusive" line on copy protection.

It's funny, I've been watching this since copy protection on C64 Cassettes through the bit-for-bit 5.25" dedicated copiers to starforce and internet authentication; it's always broken and it goes back and forth.. Is there a point I'm missing?
 
Starforce has already lost a TON of support.

Ubisoft (by far one of the biggest funders in terms of use) and CDV both dropped using starforce on their games from now on.
 
Stiler said:
Starforce has already lost a TON of support.

Ubisoft (by far one of the biggest funders in terms of use) and CDV both dropped using starforce on their games from now on.
Click to expand...

Ignorance me: Who is CDV?
 
STICK A FORK IN THEM theyre done, not only the recent problem with Vista but all the other issues with peoples pc etc... they are/have been doomed.
 
Hopefully Starforce will tank now for good. Screw em. I don't mind copy protection, I just don't like buggy, intrusive and system destroying copy protection that is difficult to remove even after you remove the game. Not to mention on the Starforce support boards, they are rude if you even ask how to remove the stuff and have the typing capabilities of a 5 year old syntax wise, they truly are retarded.
 
SilverSliver said:
Hopefully Starforce will tank now for good. Screw em. I don't mind copy protection, I just don't like buggy, intrusive and system destroying copy protection that is difficult to remove even after you remove the game. Not to mention on the Starforce support boards, they are rude if you even ask how to remove the stuff ...
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Can someone contact Publishers using StarForce and get their position on the Vista issue?

Patching games isn't free and if we want action we need to get active about it today!
 
I'm still wondering if my IDE channels working on and off on my old Gigabyte GA-7NNXP were because of Starforce. I haven't reinstalled half of the stuff I had on my box now, but I did get a new board, processor and RAM after I found that finding a Socket A board would be next to impossible. If they cost me $800+ for their driver bullshit, I'm going to be severely pissed.
 
acidfr33k said:
There appear to be two big problems, from our admittedly limited testing. The first is StarForce copy protection. Its reliance on a hidden Ring 0 driver causes a compatibility problem with Vista that prevents games using StarForce from loading – at least, that's the best explanation we can come up with for the errors we found. It's very disappointing that there hasn't been a fix for this so far. The driver requirements of Vista have been known for quite a long time, and both Microsoft and games publishers should have been pressuring StarForce for a proper Vista driver since at least last summer.
Click to expand...

Its not up to Microsoft to get them to write a driver. Either Starforce is a member of MSDN and have recieved Betas of Vista to develop the driver or not. Microsoft, I'm sure doesn't give a flying screw threw a rolling donut on who's software works with their system unless they pay them for inclusion in the OS. There's no guarentee many old games will work in Vista at all. Took a LOOOONG while for 2000, then XP to get compatability to many popular titles.
 
I don't really see why anyone is suprised that Starforce doesn't have their act together on this. I use XP 64-bit edition, and there are a lot of (StarForce) games that don't run correctly on it either. According to their tech support, they do have a compliant driver available, but it's up to the game maker to pay for the new version, and then patch it into the game and distribute it. Unless they have changed something in their system, even if they DO get a Vista-capable build finalized, it will still be up to all of the different publishers to patch their games and distribute it (i.e. don't hold your breath). I still have a copy of Splinter Cell that's worthless to me. GOGO StarForce!
 
I doubt there will by any vista compatable versions of starforce. At least not with the current architecture used by starforce. These "compatability" issues are not due to compatability at all. It is simply that Vista has closed off some of the vectors that viruses and rootkits have used in the past and starforce also used those vectors. As operating systems get more secure, starforce is either going to have to develope a legitimate protection scheme or become more and more virus-like.
 
And there is your answer :) MS as much as ppl ride them on things has done some really nice work w/ Vista. Too bad some of the "promised" features aren't included but oh well...It's still nice to see SF fall on its face :)
 
sithspit said:
I doubt there will by any vista compatable versions of starforce. At least not with the current architecture used by starforce. These "compatability" issues are not due to compatability at all. It is simply that Vista has closed off some of the vectors that viruses and rootkits have used in the past and starforce also used those vectors. As operating systems get more secure, starforce is either going to have to develope a legitimate protection scheme or become more and more virus-like.
Click to expand...

Exactly correct. Now, Alcohol 120% and Daemon tools also load in Ring 0 and hook into the kernel...
 
List of products that install ring 0 drivers (some examples):

Copy-protection systems:

SafeDisk
SecuRom
TAGES
Emulators:

Daemon tools
Alcohol 120%
Anti-Viruses:

PANDA ANTIVIRUS
NOD32 ANTIVIRUS
McAFEE ANTIVIRUS
KASPERSKY ANTIVIRUS
Dr.WEB ANTIVIRUS
Wormguard
Process Guard
PC-CILLIN Interten Security
AntiVirusKit
F-SECURE ANTIVIRUS
COMMAND ANTIVIRUS
BITDEFENDER HOME EDITION
Microsoft Antivirus
H+BDV Antivirus
Sophos Anti-Virus
Anti-Trojans:

BOClean
PestPatrol
TAUSCAN
THE CLEANER PRO
TDS3
TrojanHunter
FIREWALLS:

Kaspersky АntiHacker
LookNStop
Tiny Personal FireWall
ATGuard
Kerio Personal Firewall
ZoneAlarm
Conseal Firewall
Visnetic Firewall
Sygate Personal Firewall
Symantec / Norton Firewall
McAfee Firewall
PC-Viper
Conseal Desktop
Conseal PC FW
eSafe Desktop
Lockdown 2000
PrivateFirewall 2.0
TrueCrypt
SonicWall Firewall
WinGate
OutPost Firewall
Zone Alarm
Other:

Norton Password Manager 2004
Norton SystemWorks
Symantec pcAnywhere 11.5
WinFax PRO 10.0
Norton GoBack 4.0
Norton Ghost
Click to expand...

http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55
 
I still cant play SC:CT because of Starforce.I even called UBI to ask for a un SF copy and got nowhere..Die SF!!
 
I like the way the starforce crew try and justify the security risks that ring 0 access through starforce creates, they play it down saying that it can be done through various other means.

The fact that this has been disabled for Vista proves its a security risk and will go a long way to shutting down the imorral company - although that said, the amount of protesting done by gamers against Starforce has done significant damage already.
 
I see glitches, bugs, bad programming all the time, and Starforce on Silent Hunter III certainly gave my share of problems, but that happens in any software package as an IT professional I see it all the time.

The part that was truly unbelievable Starforce was their attitude. Instead of apogizing and coming out with fast fixes to help PAYING customers, they seemed to do just the opposite. When the initial problems were first reported the attitude of the company was "our software is perfect, if your having problems you must be a pirate". And when more calls came in they tried blaming the hardware, specifically of CD/DVD drive companies. And when that failed, then they really started getting nasty on the support forums.

But the crowning point was the infamous Stardock situation when their Admins posted a pirate link to GalCiv4 on Starforce's own forums. That was simply unbelievable arrogence. (I sincerely hope Stardock sued their a** off).
 
i think there time will come and be out of biz.
for now they seem to be getting by.
we gotta convince more companies to drop starforce protection.
 
It was inevitible. MS certainly wasn't going to change for SFs benefit, so Starforce was patched to work with Vista.
 
acidfr33k said:
Exactly correct. Now, Alcohol 120% and Daemon tools also load in Ring 0 and hook into the kernel...
Click to expand...


However, they both do so with the users explicite knowledge. I am sure that the developers of both those fine products will be more than willing to use the new and accepted methods for installing drivers. In fact, if you are a legitimate driver maker it is now even easier to use the proper API's to do your thing. I won't go into the technical details here but I don't see this being a problem with non-fucktard software companies.
 
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