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Starcraft II

I was in silver then started watching strategy videos by Day 9 and ForceStrategy on youtube and blip.tv within 3-4 weeks got into top #2 Platinum and then stopped :)

Btw found a GREAT channel for terrans similar to Psystarcraft for zerg:

http://www.youtube.com/user/AdebisiStarcraft

He needs more subs and visibility.
 
AK_47 said:
Long time lurker but recently new member here, happy to find this thread.

Also wanted to share this replay, that some might enjoy. I'm a 30+apm plat wining over 150apm 1900 diamond player.

http://www.mediafire.com/?hrjoc3bc22d08yc
Click to expand...

Good one. I found that APM means nothing. It doesn't indicate how well do you play, just how many times you click the mouse. My APM is somewhere in the range of 30 or so, and I've beaten many players in 2v2 and 3v3 with much higher APM. APM is a stupid measuring tool.

I liked your play. He's an idiot, and does deserve to lose. I noticed he barely reacted when his sensor tower went up, showing your army. If I were in his shoes, I'd at first panic, then try a backdoor attack or lure them into the range of my tanks.

You do need more practice though. I noticed that when you called your mules, you didn't call them on the mineral patches. If you do, they'll automatically mine. And many of your barracks didn't have a rally point, (whereas the rest of your factories and starport did) so a bunch of marines/marauders wasted away in your base.

Another tip: keep an eye on your mini-map at all times. I have it set to ally/enemy mode (so all of your allies are yellow, and enemies show red on the minimap) so I notice if any red dots pop up. That viking scouted much of your base before you noticed him.
 
Deluded said:
Good one. I found that APM means nothing. It doesn't indicate how well do you play, just how many times you click the mouse. My APM is somewhere in the range of 30 or so, and I've beaten many players in 2v2 and 3v3 with much higher APM. APM is a stupid measuring tool.

I liked your play. He's an idiot, and does deserve to lose. I noticed he barely reacted when his sensor tower went up, showing your army. If I were in his shoes, I'd at first panic, then try a backdoor attack or lure them into the range of my tanks.

You do need more practice though. I noticed that when you called your mules, you didn't call them on the mineral patches. If you do, they'll automatically mine. And many of your barracks didn't have a rally point, (whereas the rest of your factories and starport did) so a bunch of marines/marauders wasted away in your base.

Another tip: keep an eye on your mini-map at all times. I have it set to ally/enemy mode (so all of your allies are yellow, and enemies show red on the minimap) so I notice if any red dots pop up. That viking scouted much of your base before you noticed him.
Click to expand...

Awesome tips, I didn't know about the mule trick! Will implement the red dot when i get back to SC2. Thanks, my low apm hurts if i try to say do a two pronged attacks so I don't do that.
 
APM isn't the be-all-end-all indicator of skill, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's worthless. You should definitely try to work your APM up to at least an average of 75 or 80. This doesn't mean you should just start clicking around like a crazy person, but you should be constantly producing out of every building and keeping your minerals under 100 in the early game and 500 in the mid/late game. Also, as you get faster avg. apm you'll find you're able to scout better and harass much better. During battles, abilities (like EMP) can be the deciding factor in whether you win or lose a game, and a high APM is helpful in using those abilities to their fullest. Finally, use that APM to keep up constant SCV and mule production.

It's already been said a million times, but Day9tv.blip.tv archives are a great place to start. Day9 will bring you along faster than any other tutorial or teacher out there.

Look at replays and key in on timings and you'll start to get a feel of when you should be nervous about an attack or when you're most likely in the clear and can expand. Also, learn to expand at the right times. Any time you've just traded armies and have a mineral reserve built up and a steady income I'd say expand. This can get you into trouble if you expand and can't defend yourself, but if you have tanks and a small army (or if you know your opponent doesn't have a big army) go for it. Getting ahead economically is key.

Finally, scout. This is one of the most forgotten about things to do while playing. People know it's important, but they forget to do it. As a Terran you have scan, put it to good use. It'll cost you 600 minerals worth of mining from a mule, but if you know what your opponent is doing you can build the appropriate units and make that scan more worthwhile than the 600 minerals you would have had. Along with that make sure your opponent doesn't scan you. But up a couple missile turrets against toss (keep those obs out) and keep an eye out for changelings.

Oh, and stay calm as best you can when you play :). Adrenaline can make you do dumb things.

Off topic, I just had a fun game with a big talker PvP if anyone is interested.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/126469-1v1-protoss-delta-quadrant
 
APM for most people is a mental limitation, not a physical limitation. basically, you're not going to have a high effective APM if you don't always know what you're supposed to be doing next.

there's an APM threshold at some point where stuff like hand position, hotkey setup, and muscle memory become important toward improving APM, but that only becomes of value at very high APM levels and if you don't have the mental capability to keep up with that speed then it's just spam.
 
The whole 5 match placement doesnt come back again, only when i first played the game. I kinda want it back since it has the potential of changing my division. Because right now i play alot of noobs who barely have enough troops to defend, and most of the people i play are terran as well, not enough zerg opponents. Is that the same for every rank? And what is that number next to the shield on my profile name at the top? it says 325 and its not my identifier thing. Is it how many points i got?

As for strategy, i typically with terran build as many SCVs as possible while building 4 barracks and getting marines out of them. once i got enough i spread them around the map, if i cant use them then to attack, i start building other stuff and defense. One tactic that works on me is when i get ambushed with enemies from front and back, with my marines no where to go. No matter how many marines i got they will always lose because they cant fight them both. I also used to get my scvs in enemy base and build garrisons there, is that a good thing? never worked.
 
dioxholster said:
The whole 5 match placement doesnt come back again, only when i first played the game. I kinda want it back since it has the potential of changing my division. Because right now i play alot of noobs who barely have enough troops to defend, and most of the people i play are terran as well, not enough zerg opponents. Is that the same for every rank? And what is that number next to the shield on my profile name at the top? it says 325 and its not my identifier thing. Is it how many points i got?

As for strategy, i typically with terran build as many SCVs as possible while building 4 barracks and getting marines out of them. once i got enough i spread them around the map, if i cant use them then to attack, i start building other stuff and defense. One tactic that works on me is when i get ambushed with enemies from front and back, with my marines no where to go. No matter how many marines i got they will always lose because they cant fight them both. I also used to get my scvs in enemy base and build garrisons there, is that a good thing? never worked.
Click to expand...

The game system reevaluates MMR for league placement every ~30 games. It took me around 150 games to go from silver to plat.

No, It's not the same for every rank. Silver players have a semi-competent grasp on the game, gold will get BOs down but have serious mechanical flaws. Platinum is pretty solid mechanics, a couple known and well executed BOs, but difficulty running on anything past two base and mediocre decision making. Low diamond is about the same as high plat, mid diamond is one extremely well executed BO or a smoother play than platinum in all areas. Tip-top diamond (top 100 ranking) is more or less pro level and they are very good at the game. Though there's still a ton of room for growth at the top if you watch tournaments.

The number is your achievement points and they're useless.

I would suggest just using a 2-rax opener as it's basic and flexible allowing you to branch off into a relatively quick expo, turtle and tech, or apply pressure if necessary, and it's also pretty safe and pretty solid against early aggression vs all three races.
 
Dioxholster, I'd be careful about relying too heavily on an infantry ball. I personally feel reliance on the bioball has held Terran late-game strategies back. Protoss can very easily counter bioball with templar/colossi if you fail to outright kill them in the beginning with a well executed timing attack. Zerg can easily counter it with banelings and infestors as well.
 
Any idea how long it takes to get out of bronze? I did about 10 SCV rushes ages ago and got a 10-loss streak. But since then I've had huge win streaks (I win about 8-12 games, then lose one, then win the next group etc.) and can't seem to move out of Bronze. I'm tired of winning every game easily just via macro and losing the occasional one to a zealot rush.
 
Zxcs said:
Any idea how long it takes to get out of bronze? I did about 10 SCV rushes ages ago and got a 10-loss streak. But since then I've had huge win streaks (I win about 8-12 games, then lose one, then win the next group etc.) and can't seem to move out of Bronze. I'm tired of winning every game easily just via macro and losing the occasional one to a zealot rush.
Click to expand...

MMR adapts very quickly to your level of play, so if you're consistently winning against 'slightly favored' or 'favored' players or against people in higher leagues you'll be moving up pretty soon.

Doesn't really matter what league you're in since you'll always be playing people that should be fairly close to your level, and there is no secret to moving up. Blizzard won't reveal what the promotion/relegation mechanism is, so just keep playing well and you'll get there.
 
Question for everyone. I am a silver level 1v1. I am by no means a noob and I understand all three races very well. I known all the correct counters for X unit. I think my early game is pretty strong, but my mid game is poor at best and late game is even worse. So I have decided to practice one flaw at a time VS very hard AI. As Terran I can beat the very hard AI on a consistent basis. As Zerg, I am having a hard time even though I consider Zerg my main race race. What level would you put the very hard AI at? Gold level players (not cheese players, but legit) Also what is a good place to learn very basic but fundamental strats for Zerg?
 
Vengance_01 said:
Question for everyone. I am a silver level 1v1. I am by no means a noob and I understand all three races very well. I known all the correct counters for X unit. I think my early game is pretty strong, but my mid game is poor at best and late game is even worse. So I have decided to practice one flaw at a time VS very hard AI. As Terran I can beat the very hard AI on a consistent basis. As Zerg, I am having a hard time even though I consider Zerg my main race race. What level would you put the very hard AI at? Gold level players (not cheese players, but legit) Also what is a good place to learn very basic but fundamental strats for Zerg?
Click to expand...

The AI is good to practice against if you want to get a solid opening down and prepare for an early offensive from your opponent. The Very Hard AI is almost guaranteed to attack between 6 and 7 minutes every time. Every now and then if the AI scouts you and decides you don't have jack all, they will rush you very quickly (the first marine / zealot / first few roaches will immediately head to your base).

Aside from cheesing, if you plan on fast expanding as zerg, the best way to defend against the AI is to simply make a few spines and make a ton of zerglings when you see their attack force move out. This would be very standard online play and would train you to make emergency zerglings (you should always have intel on if your opponent is attacking if you're doing a fast expand build). It also makes your build more flexible since you aren't forced to make an army by any means and you can play more reactively to your opponent which would be useful in a real match. Play as if you don't know the AI is going to attack (even though it always does at the same exact time every game).

There are of course a plethora of tactics that will always beat the AI. Banelings against the Terran AI will always win since they don't move away from banelings. Simply making nothing but roaches and countering their attack will almost always win. 6-8 pools almost always win of course. 7 RR will always win. Fast mutas with zergling harass to keep the AI army in check will also guarantee a win. These tactics are just something that the AI can't deal with.
 
By nature I am a defensive minded player while pushing when I know I have the advantage or by countering after a enemy push. Due to this nature, should I learn Terran as my main race? I know Zerg is all about reaction, constant harass, and expansions. Just looking for opinions.
As an FYI when I practice against the AI, I never cheese (don't believe in it) and mostly stick to very standard builds as this about the only thing I can pull off decently.
 
Vengance_01 said:
By nature I am a defensive minded player while pushing when I know I have the advantage or by countering after a enemy push. Due to this nature, should I learn Terran as my main race? I know Zerg is all about reaction, constant harass, and expansions. Just looking for opinions.
As an FYI when I practice against the AI, I never cheese (don't believe in it) and mostly stick to very standard builds as this about the only thing I can pull off decently.
Click to expand...

I'll practice with you and see if I can pick out some things for you to work on if you'd like.
 
^Prepare to get raped, Vengance_01! :p

btw. petertew, I've got a new strat I'd like to run by with you ;)
 
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Can someone be so kind and post the patch notes for 1.2 please and thanks in advance :)
 
Is there a "Add me and we can practice sometime" thread with everyones username/realid ?

Mine is Bonksnp.724 and I need practice BAD.
 
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Bonksnp said:
Is there a "Add me and we can practice sometime" thread with everyones username/realid ?

Mine is Bonksnp.724
Click to expand...
Added you to my list.
northrop.622
I don't play very often, but I do need more practice, so I'll be sure to message you when I see you on.


Troub said:
Can someone be so kind and post the patch notes for 1.2 please and thanks in advance :)
Click to expand...
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty – Patch 1.2.0
General

  • Battle.net Chat Channels have been added! Players can now join others in both public and private channels.
    • Added in-game chat bar command to whisper to other players. Using the “/w” command will open up a list of available friends, party members, chat channels, and other players within your current game.
    • Added Battle.net option to auto-join previous private channels.
    • Added Battle.net option to prevent chat channel text from appearing in in-game chat display.
  • A new Master League has been added! This league now represents the highest tier of players.
  • Customizable Hotkey Support has been added.
  • Stalemate Detection has been added. This will end the game in a tie for all remaining players if no players have income, production, or destroyed structures for three consecutive minutes. A countdown timer will now appear when the game detects this scenario.
  • An Extreme graphics option is now available. Players can now configure screen space ambient occlusion.
Additional Improvements and Changes

  • Several help dialogue and tech tree improvements have been made:
    • In-game help is now available in Battle.net.
    • The help dialog’s tech tree has been improved.
    • Unit information in the help dialog now displays abilities and upgrades.
  • Several Save/Replay File dialogue improvements have been made:
    • Added ability to sort replays and saved games by name and date.
    • Added ability to right-click and rename a replay or saved game from within the game interface.
    • Added a new tab for auto-saved games and unsaved replays.
    • Added an option to permanently save all replays. Checking this option will mark all unsaved replays as being saved.
    • Added visibility for where replays and saved games are being saved to.
    • Added a “Show in Folder” button which will open the location where a replay or saved game is stored on your computer.
  • Camera following behavior for observers and replays has been improved.
  • The System Alert panel has been moved to the top of the screen and the duration of most system alerts has been reduced.
  • Mouse buttons can now be bound to the Push-To-Talk hotkey.
  • A hotkey indicator option has been added to show the primary hotkey on top of command buttons.
  • When selecting a Vespene geyser, the number of current harvesters will be displayed in the info panel.
  • Added an option to disable any error sounds. The Response Sounds checkbox now controls whether unit-specific audio is used for error sounds instead of a generic buzz.
  • Added Game UI layout per-map overrides. Map makers can now use custom UI layout files to create new UI or override existing game UI.
  • Added a toggle button to the in-game replay panel to Show or Hide the timeline/duration information.
  • Added hotkey to Pause/Resume game for both single player and multiplayer (Pause/Break key).
Balance

  • GENERAL
    • Players can no longer block off ramps with two 2×2 buildings.
  • PROTOSS
    • Hallucination research time decreased from 110 to 80.
    • Observer
      • Cost decreased from 50/100 to 25/75.
    • Phoenix
      • Build time decreased from 45 to 35.
    • Void Ray
      • Now deals 20% more damage to massive targets.
      • Flux Vanes speed upgrade removed.
  • TERRAN
    • SCV
      • Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing.
      • SCV construction movement has been made more consistent.
StarCraft II Editor Improvements

  • Map locale management has been added.
  • Further editor tips and hints have been added.
  • New trigger functions, actions, and events have been added:
    • New trigger functions:
      • Verify Bank – used to verify that a bank’s signature is intact.
    • New trigger actions:
      • Bank Option – used to change options for banks including adding a signature.
      • Remove Inventory Item – used to instantly remove a requested item from an inventory.
      • Set Visibility Type Of Text Tag – used to control whether fog or black mask hides the tag.
    • New trigger events:
      • Mouse Moved – sent in response to the mouse being moved in the game world.
  • New unit properties have been added:
    • Carried Minerals, Carried Vespene, Carried Terrazine, and Carried Custom Resource.
    • Bounty (XP) – used to grant experience when a unit is killed.
  • New Effect Used event property has been added: Life, Shields, and Energy changed.
  • Copy/paste support has been added to the upgrade editor.
  • Behaviors can now be replaced by either the shortest duration (the original method) or by farthest distance.
  • Behavior abilities can now properly charge the player using the ability instead of always charging the owner.
  • Right clicking an item in an inventory will now have the icon appear immediately next to the cursor.
  • Font Style Files can now be added to Mods and Maps using the FontStyleFileArray field in GameUIData. Existing styles can have their individual attributes overridden or entirely new styles can be added.
  • UI Layout files can now be added to Mods and Maps using the CustomLayoutFileArray filed in GameUIData. Most existing frames can be modified or overridden and entirely new templates can be added which can be created from the Dialog system within the Editor.
  • Attributes and values can now be hidden in the game lobby and can be configured through Game Variants.
  • The mouse wheel now scrolls the control under the cursor.
  • Copied doodads now retain their height offset.
  • Attribute and Veterancy behaviors now normalize vitals when new levels are applied.
  • Mouse clicks & highlights are now allowed while in relative camera mode.
  • Edit boxes are now available for trigger dialogs.
  • The game will now properly find custom imported files within mods.
  • Maps can now depend on even more mods.
  • Dialog Items can now be hooked up from already existing frames within a created Panel.
  • Change Focus commands are now available in the Trigger module View menu for switching input focus directly to different areas.
  • The water editor layout has been improved.
  • Effect offsets can now optionally contain a Z component.
  • Added a new type of Dialog Item called Panel. Panels are containers for other dialog items to help with grouping and hierarchy.
  • Added new UI to insert text tags for data references, unit info, and hotkeys.
  • Added an effect range to the effect ability to restrict how far away the effect can be placed. This will allow effects to behave like the Stalker Blink effect.
  • Added a behavior flag to suppress fidgeting.
  • Added a new stalemate melee option to determine whether the stalemate detection checking is enforced.
  • Added a new “Creator” player to effects. It will be set to the player issuing an order if available.
  • Added a new type of item that can use an effect ability.
  • Added a validator that checks to see if a unit can path to a point.
  • Added a validator that checks if there is a cliff between two points.
  • Added MinimapRenderPriority to CActorUnit and MinimapRenderPriorityList to CActorGlobalConfig. This allows custom map makers to define the render priorities of units on the minimap.
  • Added a Locale sub-menu in the Mod menu for changing the active text locale for the current document.
  • Added a Mod Info dialog in the Mod menu for more easily changing mod name and description text.
  • Added a Modify Locales dialog (also in Locale sub-menu) for adding or removing text locales.
  • Added an Editor Tips dialog in the Help menu (and optionally on start up) with tips for using the editor effectively.
Bug Fixes

  • Gameplay
    • General
      • All diagonal ramps are now the same with regards to unbuildable locations at the bottom of the ramps.
      • Critter health bars are now hidden unless highlighted or selected (if status bars are set to show when units are selected).
      • Orders can no longer be canceled by clicking on the info panel in challenges before the challenge begins.
      • Text tags are now paused when the game is paused.
      • Autocast state for abilities will now reset to the default state when unit ownership is permanently changed.
      • Autocast repair will now charge the player requesting autocast functionality.
      • Repair will now clear its autocast state if the owning player leaves the game.
      • Harvest orders no longer end if an order is queued while waiting to return cargo.
      • Harvesting units no longer avoid enemy units.
      • Hold position units no longer automatically move out of the way when placing a building.
      • Enemy units no longer show passive buttons in the command card.
      • Missiles are no longer affected by Vortex.
      • Actors with a large number of create events no longer crash the map.
      • Fixed an issue where cliff jumping units were able to traverse unpathable terrain.
      • Fixed an issue with units trying to get out of the way so buildings can be constructed.
      • Fixed an issue with harvesting units bypassing force fields.
      • Fixed an issue where melee units were unable to attack a colossus when it was on a cliff.
      • Fixed an issue where larva would not wander around.
      • Fixed an issues where loading a saved Challenge could improperly overwrite the best score.
      • Fixed an issue with animation stutters when flying units are separating.
      • Fixed an issue where units could push opposing units when they shouldn’t have been able to.
      • Added “Detector” text to the info panel for units which can detect cloaked or burrowed units.
      • Added combat reveal tinting to help show that combat reveal units cannot be hit.
    • Protoss
      • Protoss structures can no longer be powered without a power source if constructed while powered by a Warp Prism under the effects of Neural Parasite.
      • Mass Recall can no longer target larva or eggs.
      • Fixed an issue where units that were picked up by a Graviton Beam would still block pathing on the ground.
      • Fixed an issue where a Zealot could burn its Charge cooldown without actually moving.
    • Terran
      • Changed the position of the Select Builder button on Terran buildings, and changed the hotkey to Q.
      • SCVs can no longer continue construction on a building from inside an adjacent bunker.
      • Fixed nuke dot not being visible all the time.
      • Fixed an issue where you could see an enemy MULE drop pod in some cases where you didn’t have vision of the target location.
      • Fixed an issue where a Medivac would be able to continue healing a unit that was stuck in a Graviton Beam if the Medivac had started healing the unit before it was picked up by the Graviton Beam.
      • Fixed an issue where a Thor would continue to channel 250mm Strike Cannons on an uplifted Terran building if it lifted off at just the right time.
      • Fixed an issue where a Thor could get stuck channeling if a player queued up multiple targets for 250mm Strike Cannons.
      • Fixed an issue where SCVs could continue repairing at a short range even though the structure they were repairing was blocked by Force Fields.
    • Zerg
      • Creep will now spread evenly in all directions.
      • The Burrow and Cancel Neural Parasite buttons have been moved on the command card.
      • Fixed an issue with Ultralisk unable to attack a row of sensor towers.
  • StarCraft II Editor
    • The “For Each Real” and “For Each Integer” actions will now correctly execute once when the starting and ending bounds are equal while the increment is also zero.
    • Items dropped from an inventory will now use their default height when dropped.
    • The View Script command will now view library scripts if the library list has focus.
    • Carried and equipped item behaviors and weapons are now restored properly when a unit is revived.
    • Publish dialog now updates storage information after removing a published file in the Managed Published window.
    • Dropdowns now correctly select items as you type using partial matching.
    • Standard dependencies can no longer be modified in the Dependencies dialog (only added or removed).
    • Camera following can no longer be disabled via hotkeys if it was requested via triggers.
    • Fixed an issue with editing stylized text values when using system locales other than English.
    • Fixed an issue with Veterancy experience share filters.
    • Fixed an issue when editing mover data where values were not being saved correctly.
    • Fixed an issue that prevented certain changes to angle values.
    • Fixed an issue where selection circles would drop when a flying unit was over a cliff.
    • Fixed an issue where the scroll bar for tree views could disappear.
    • Fixed an issue where triggers setting the mouse relative could result in the mouse being stuck in relative move mode.
    • Fixed an issue where setting the color of a dialog item of type label wasn’t working.
    • Fixed a crash that could occur while editing upgrade values.
    • Fixed text truncation with Set Text actor message.
    • Fixed display of ability command links in the Overview Manager.
    • Fixed many areas where English text was displayed instead of localized text.
    • Fixed a crash when destroying a persistent effect.
 
Chat channels are fun.

/w is back... go figure.

Extreme graphics? All it does is add SSAO and the in game tooltip says "affects only story mode sets and cutscenes". Did they really need to make a whole new 'extreme' preset for this?
 
I really needed that stalemate feature a couple nights ago.

Got into a 7 hour long stand off with a guy on scrap station after he flew his last building to the island and refused to leave the game. In the end I "won" but still....
 
I wonder how the system would handle a draw due to the stalemate feature? And yes I realize this is very very very unlikely in practice, but possible in theory.
 
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Anyone promoted to masters yet? I think the promotion works the same way as the other leagues. My roommate didn't play 1v1 for 2 months and stayed at 2200 while everyone else basically moved into 3000's and beyond. He played 1 game today and got promoted since his MMR was of course already up there.

I've played a few games after the update, but I have no idea how many games I'd need before promotion. At least with diamond I knew I just had to reach that 30 game mark. Don't know whether or not I should go for it or wait a while.
 
I didn't even notice that Master League until you pointed it out. I haven't gotten there yet, but now I've got a goal :).
 
petertew said:
I didn't even notice that Master League until you pointed it out. I haven't gotten there yet, but now I've got a goal :).
Click to expand...

Heh, I've jumped 15 spots by just sitting on my ass and people higher than me getting promoted. My roommate's old diamond division is down to 34 people... 66 of them got promoted :eek:
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
There's not much to explain with MMR. It's the most accurate predictor of skill. It's the point and league system that blows.
Click to expand...

Well, that's sort of what I meant but I guess I should have been more specific. It's not so much how the MMR thing works, but I want to know exactly how it relates to the point and league system.

But somehow I think Blizzard are going to keep that to themselves more or less forever.
 
I'm having a tough time with Zerg, I could really use some replays of some of the newer strategies against them. I really like the fast expand 6 gate but I can't seem to get my cannon placement right, and it always feels a little awkward. I typically favor 3 gate +1 expand, or 3 gate stalkers, blink, with massive pressure into expand.

I'd really like to learn some of the stargate based builds, and some of the forge first based builds with an early expansions, if anyone has some knowledge with those please post some replays.



I'm also completely lost in PvP, I'm sick of going 3 gate robo into fast colossi on one base basically every game, it seems like the 1 gas expand can work, but if you don't keep their colossi count down it's utterly unbearable. It seems like the phoenix build would be worth while if you can get enough sentries to stay alive, and put enough pressure on your opponent with your phoenixes to not let him/her out of their base.

Aside from PvT, which doesn't seem to have changed from the 2 gate robo openings, and the fast expand openings, I feel pretty much lost.
 
Decko87 said:
I'm having a tough time with Zerg, I could really use some replays of some of the newer strategies against them. I really like the fast expand 6 gate but I can't seem to get my cannon placement right, and it always feels a little awkward. I typically favor 3 gate +1 expand, or 3 gate stalkers, blink, with massive pressure into expand.

I'd really like to learn some of the stargate based builds, and some of the forge first based builds with an early expansions, if anyone has some knowledge with those please post some replays.



I'm also completely lost in PvP, I'm sick of going 3 gate robo into fast colossi on one base basically every game, it seems like the 1 gas expand can work, but if you don't keep their colossi count down it's utterly unbearable. It seems like the phoenix build would be worth while if you can get enough sentries to stay alive, and put enough pressure on your opponent with your phoenixes to not let him/her out of their base.

Aside from PvT, which doesn't seem to have changed from the 2 gate robo openings, and the fast expand openings, I feel pretty much lost.
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The game pretty much evolves every GSL game. People seem to like the flavor of the month builds once they see one of the top players use it. It's really annoying actually, because people just play based on build orders and not even with their own strategies at all.

There are many variants of the cannon forge/stargate builds, which map do you have trouble doing the forge FE on?

I'm gonna stick with Z but I'm giving the game a huge long break.
 
Why would you try to concoct your own terrible strategies when there is a whole stable of dedicated dudes testing every possible variation of every strategy for 12 hours a day, every day, against the best players in the world, and then demonstrating the most effective ones in tournament games?
 
Aix said:
Why would you try to concoct your own terrible strategies when there is a whole stable of dedicated dudes testing every possible variation of every strategy for 12 hours a day, every day, against the best players in the world, and then demonstrating the most effective ones in tournament games?
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Tournament games != ladder games.

For example, in high level zvz games the current go-to opening is 15 hatch and 14-15 pool. If you do that on the ladder, at bronze or even mid diamond where I am, there's a 95% chance you're playing against a one base zerg who's spamming lings while you're fumbling around with your economic build. Instant loss.

If you like to watch high level replays (I sure do), don't simply take the build order and copy it. Take the information of WHY it works and apply it to build orders that suit your own style. A simple copy and paste won't do you any good.
 
rigphoria said:
Tournament games != ladder games.

For example, in high level zvz games the current go-to opening is 15 hatch and 14-15 pool. If you do that on the ladder, at bronze or even mid diamond where I am, there's a 95% chance you're playing against a one base zerg who's spamming lings while you're fumbling around with your economic build. Instant loss.

If you like to watch high level replays (I sure do), don't simply take the build order and copy it. Take the information of WHY it works and apply it to build orders that suit your own style. A simple copy and paste won't do you any good.
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I definitely agree. The ladder could not be more different than something like the GSL.

1 base roach will dominate most all expansion play. I'm playing a mix of 2500-2700 diamond players and masters players after a LONG time of not playing at all (over 1500 bonus pool)... and the thing that struck me was EVERY zerg player went mass roach off of 1 base no matter what in ZvZ. In one game I even fended off the guy's initial roach push so I decided to expand with the advantage and tech to mutalisk. Right before my spire was done, he showed up with 40 more roaches. This guy was masters.

Skill level aside, there's also a huge difference between tournament and ladder games in that ladder games are inherently 'best of 1' while tournament is obviously not. This opens the game to a lot more 'all in' strategies or strategies that will catch your opponent off guard. Almost every terran I'm playing will now do early marine aggression with offensive bunkers because frankly there's a large enough percentage of games where that will simply win out right.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
I definitely agree. The ladder could not be more different than something like the GSL.

1 base roach will dominate most all expansion play. I'm playing a mix of 2500-2700 diamond players and masters players after a LONG time of not playing at all (over 1500 bonus pool)... and the thing that struck me was EVERY zerg player went mass roach off of 1 base no matter what in ZvZ. In one game I even fended off the guy's initial roach push so I decided to expand with the advantage and tech to mutalisk. Right before my spire was done, he showed up with 40 more roaches. This guy was masters.

Skill level aside, there's also a huge difference between tournament and ladder games in that ladder games are inherently 'best of 1' while tournament is obviously not. This opens the game to a lot more 'all in' strategies or strategies that will catch your opponent off guard. Almost every terran I'm playing will now do early marine aggression with offensive bunkers because frankly there's a large enough percentage of games where that will simply win out right.
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I find very similar trends in every game I play. People all in 1 base and if that doesn't work they way more often than not don't know how to transition to the mid or late game. It gets very frustrating to have to deal with all these 1 base all ins, but it's kind of good practice in figuring out how to deal with early aggression while building an economy.
 
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