Dion
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Messages
- 4,057
nor a good.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
-
Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.
Starcraft II
- Thread starter maxius
- Start date
nor a good.
starcraft 2 is a traditional rts game it retains the spirit of the original. the fmv's are tightly integrated into the game play. fmv's add to the immersion of the player into the game world. its sad that you do not see more fmv's in this bland fps console driven world...
i commend blizzard for staying with the pc as its prime gaming platform and for now ignoring the consoles
Yoshiyuki Blade
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 2,881
I agree, "spirit" would be the best word I to describe it. The gameplay dynamics isn't the same, but the "spirit" of its predecessor is there. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be appropriate to be called the sequel of SC1. Just some RTS game with SC units.
{EB}NuTSymPToM{EB}
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,037
FMV's do the opposite for me. They show me what the tiled, copy/paste buildings and units world I'm playing in is supposed to look like, making the disconnect so much worse. Compare that to the Dawn of War 2 intro video where the game actually plays like that (though obviously not as detailed).
I don't want a good game remade. I want the next step forward.
I'd give them this, if it weren't all but impossible to make an RTS work on a console.
{EB}NuTSymPToM{EB}
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,037
Queued commands are neither original or new. I wouldn't exactly pat Blizzard on the back for at least keeping pace with other developers good ideas.
Yoshiyuki Blade
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 2,881
But they're worthless features in a game that isn't on par with the gameplay mechanics of SC1. Especially if it's in a game universe that I dislike or just don't care for. Having these features implemented and used properly in a sequel without changing in feel of the original is what I, and many others, have been looking for.
{EB}NuTSymPToM{EB}
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,037
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
I found both Company of Heroes and Dawn of War 1, expansions and 2 to be excellent RTS games and I especially like the 40K universe. If they didn't float your boat, that's fine. I'm just saying from my point of view it'll be hard to turn back the clock and play like I did in 1998.
CyberJunk
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2005
- Messages
- 4,247
yea exactly did you even play the damn BETA ? WTF ?
You think this many people would buy the game if the beta was bad? The beta was really good i thought anyways they managet to keep it starcraft without fucking it up with the new units.
Yoshiyuki Blade
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 2,881
Yeah, I see what you mean by that and I can agree. But because the mechanics are old doesn't mean the it's obsolete. It's just that there have been different varieties of RTS games over time with a few innovations that can be adopted by others. But in terms of the core of the gameplay, I'd like to keep those in their respective "families" though. Not sure how many people agree with this, but I think it was a good decision to maintain the "spirit" of SC1 while improving on things where it fell short as it's brought into the 21st century. It's what makes me, and probably many others, eagerly anticipate it's release. It would certainly been a major downer if SC2 played like "modern" RTS like Supcom or Company of Heroes.
limitedaccess
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 7,592
This is a tricky problem for any sequel isn't it? Especially for a game with a large hardcore fan following. Add and change too many features, and the core fan base tends to feel the game isn't the same anymore, don't change and it seems just like a face lift.
I feel for SC if you look at the sales and sales trend, Blizzard knows that they have a large following who like and prefer SCs style of gameplay, which is why they are likely not to do anything radical. Why make their product more similar to Relics for instance when their own formula has a larger following? Until proven otherwise, objectively Blizzard is the leader in this genre, it doesn't make sense for them not to stick with their formula.
{EB}NuTSymPToM{EB}
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,037
I see what you mean. Starcraft seems to be damn near a way of life for some gamers out there. From my point of view, it's popularity works against it; holding it back, if you will. I'm not telling them to copy Relic (as much as I seem to be praising them, those games have problems of their own), but I do feel that Relic has done more to advance the genre. The rabid fanbase that Blizzard must design to won't really let them change it.
I guess there really are enough people that literally just want a polished up SC1. If that's the case, I'm sure this game will make them all happy. I'm just in the mood for something new and was hoping this would be it, but after looking into it, it feels like it's new but old at the same time.
Meh, I'll probably get it anyway if my brothers keep nagging me.
Only on the most superficial level.
As a Protoss player who likes playing with a Zerg partner in 2v2, I have to say that the races play very very differently from Brood War. People that cannot see that are either not paying attention or really have no idea WTF. Its the same BS when I hear people say that Quake 1, 2, and 3 are pretty much the same thing.
Starcraft is at its core, a macro RTS with a focus on economy and rock/paper/scissors unit counters. It cannot be Warcraft 3, which had more of a focus on micro and less on macro. Relic has taken the micro mindset even further, with games that straddle the line between action-RPG and RTS.
Again, none of this is what is needed by Starcraft. It is the definitive macro economy RTS. They moved things forward with a complete rebalancing and retweaking of the races. Controls are streamlined (MBS, larger squad caps), yet base micro abilities are added (Queen abilities, dropping creep, Chrono Boost, MULE, etc). The Protoss in Starcraft 2 play differently from Protoss in the originals, in that individual unit strength is less than before but it is traded with much greater mobility.
It is so different from the first game that many pro players that have moved from Brood War to SC2 have changed races. I don't see how anyone that has played the game or has paid attention can say that it is the same game, makes no sense to me.
limitedaccess
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 7,592
Blizzard did actually modify their formula before when they released Warcraft 3. I'm not a big Warcraft fan myself, so what I'm saying may no be 100% correct just as a note. But I believe when WC3 was released their was major questions about why they went with what they did as the hero, rpg, and upkeep systems were a major change from WC2 and their more recent SC. And I believe a lot of the comments at the time were along the lines of "why couldn't they just make WC/SC in 3D." But WC3 overcame these and was still popular.
Funnily enough even for Relic with the release of DOW 2, many relic and DOW1 fans were unhappy with the changes to DOW1 and even COH. Yet DOW 2 I think is significantly more popular and financially successful then those two previous games. It really is the only other current major player in this rts business.
Only on the most superficial level.
As a Protoss player who likes playing with a Zerg partner in 2v2, I have to say that the races play very very differently from Brood War. People that cannot see that are either not paying attention or really have no idea WTF. Its the same BS when I hear people say that Quake 1, 2, and 3 are pretty much the same thing.
I think the general feeling isn't that the games are exact copies just with better graphics, but that the core gameplay feel is essentially the same. For instance adding things like environmental impact and squad system similar to Relic has with its RTS series, that would be a major gameplay altering change. Differing unit stats across the board, not so much. Though granted I have really limited my exposure to SC2 information as games I am more anticipating I prefer to be more surprised at.
Altering the macro based core gameplay of Starcraft seems like it is too big an alteration. They did the right thing by radically changing the race balance, unit balance, and unit abilities instead, especially with the lower and mid level units.
I've been in the beta since February and I can say that unit and race balance has changed significantly. Protoss have traded individual unit strength for much greater mobility, for example. Warp gates and being able to spawn tier 1 and 1.5 units anywhere there is pylon power, pushing the production queue to the back instead of at the front, has really changed the way Protoss play. Zerg has been tweaked in such a way to encourage even more macro play than before in terms of laying down more hatcheries, spreading creep throughout the map, etc etc.
Hell, Starcraft 2 itself is a radically different game at the end of the beta compared to at the beginning. The first month alone was a constant wave of balance patches that really changed the way it played. Comparing it to the original seems even sillier when taking this into account.
Now, if you want it to be a completely different game like DOW2 (or as I like to call it, "Diablo with more dudes"), that's a different thing and nothing about SC2 will make you happy. That comes down to personal opinion. It is my opinion that radically adjusting the balance within the same macro/economy focused RTS model was the right way to go.
Yoshiyuki Blade
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 2,881
Altering the macro based core gameplay of Starcraft seems like it is too big an alteration. They did the right thing by radically changing the race balance, unit balance, and unit abilities instead, especially with the lower and mid level units.
I've been in the beta since February and I can say that unit and race balance has changed significantly. Protoss have traded individual unit strength for much greater mobility, for example. Warp gates and being able to spawn tier 1 and 1.5 units anywhere there is pylon power, pushing the production queue to the back instead of at the front, has really changed the way Protoss play. Zerg has been tweaked in such a way to encourage even more macro play than before in terms of laying down more hatcheries, spreading creep throughout the map, etc etc.
Hell, Starcraft 2 itself is a radically different game at the end of the beta compared to at the beginning. The first month alone was a constant wave of balance patches that really changed the way it played. Comparing it to the original seems even sillier when taking this into account.
Now, if you want it to be a completely different game like DOW2 (or as I like to call it, "Diablo with more dudes"), that's a different thing and nothing about SC2 will make you happy. That comes down to personal opinion. It is my opinion that radically adjusting the balance within the same macro/economy focused RTS model was the right way to go.
I agree, the dynamics have changed quite dramatically now that I think about it. I think the problem is that people can *still* play the classic way and naturally do so when they get into the beta. Therefore, fooling themselves that nothing really changed. I'll even admit that I still play like that.
Once people realize how much more mechanics there is to exploit out of each race, it becomes a waaay different ball game. "Easy to learn, difficult to master."at one time the beta has more than a 1 million online for Christs sake this game is gold
PornoSatan
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2004
- Messages
- 3,493
Nah, that was actually misleading. That number is including WoW players logged in as well.
The amount of ignorance in this thread amazes me, none of you have any idea what it's like preparing a game for launch, so lets not even get into that. None of us work at Blizzard and are aware of the task at hand.
Secondly, if you played the beta for a few months and played the original Starcraft recently, you'd be aware of how different the games are. There's nothing wrong with keeping an RTS style of game play. Go ahead and try calling it archaic after you play the game. I've played Sup Com, Dow, and CoH, they're styles of game play, they're not superior styles.
The game has rich and dynamic game play, if you honestly don't think so then I'll see you in the diamond leagues.
Secondly, if you played the beta for a few months and played the original Starcraft recently, you'd be aware of how different the games are. There's nothing wrong with keeping an RTS style of game play. Go ahead and try calling it archaic after you play the game. I've played Sup Com, Dow, and CoH, they're styles of game play, they're not superior styles.
The game has rich and dynamic game play, if you honestly don't think so then I'll see you in the diamond leagues
.The amount of ignorance in this thread amazes me, none of you have any idea what it's like preparing a game for launch, so lets not even get into that. None of us work at Blizzard and are aware of the task at hand.
Secondly, if you played the beta for a few months and played the original Starcraft recently, you'd be aware of how different the games are. There's nothing wrong with keeping an RTS style of game play. Go ahead and try calling it archaic after you play the game. I've played Sup Com, Dow, and CoH, they're styles of game play, they're not superior styles.
The game has rich and dynamic game play, if you honestly don't think so then I'll see you in the diamond leagues
Ignorance in a HardOCP thread, shocking
I actually played a game of Brood War earlier tonight and it just confirmed that it is an entirely different game in every single respect. To say that they are the same based on the most superficial and broadest of observations is ridiculous.
Ignorance in a HardOCP thread, shocking
I actually played a game of Brood War earlier tonight and it just confirmed that it is an entirely different game in every single respect. To say that they are the same based on the most superficial and broadest of observations is ridiculous.
I agree with almost every point you've made on the subject, but I think the issue people are having is simply that they're both macro based RTS games. Some people are just never going to see the strategic depth offered by having to build and control an army at the same time, so they won't enjoy SC2 as much as WC3 or a Relic game.
Luckily for people willing to give it a shot, the learning curve for SC2 is much, much, much lower than BW. There are few experiences more rewarding than becoming good at BW, but it's also one of the most difficult tasks to do and requires a slight bit of masochism. SC2 offers a similarly rewarding experience, but it's a lot easier to jump in without knowing what to do. Anyone can do fairly well just by learning how to BUILD MORE UNITS.
Mightymouse
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 132
it is a face-lift, but as previously said, if you change too much your original fans will lose interest. That being said, they didn't change much, but that's good because the style of the game didn't change much either. The people who buy it are those who enjoyed Starcraft (tons) and those who will be drawn in for the multiplayer and single player. I personally played the beta and after a while, i just felt meh...then now i am getting more and more excited to play the single player aspect of the game, as well as playing the multiplayer.
CanesVenetici
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Messages
- 473
The only one? No. But why do you feel the need to come into a Starcraft thread to bitch about it? You could be playing some more Modern Warfail 2 or something...
CanesVenetici
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Messages
- 473
Gamestop status literally just changed from open to shipped! Fuck yeah!
Wooo mine too!! 2 CEs inc!
GriMReapeRAK
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2009
- Messages
- 306
Sweet, my pre-order status says it shipped. No tracking number yet, though. What delivery service are they using for you guys?
Edit: I mean delivery service as in FedEx, UPS, etc.
Edit: I mean delivery service as in FedEx, UPS, etc.
CyberJunk
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2005
- Messages
- 4,247
whos going to the midnight release? i just got an email from gamestop saying there giving away booster packs tonight?
Last edited:
Yoshiyuki Blade
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 2,881
At first I was thinking about waiting it out until 10 am tomorrow for the digital purchase. I already have the installer ready here. But I'm getting more and more tempted to go out and grab a copy at midnight... Hopefully it doesn't sell out by then.
What's in the "booster pack" ??
Breath_of_the_Dying
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,454
[L]imey;1035993162 said:
Coupons for alienware gear, ect.
CyberJunk
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2005
- Messages
- 4,247
it doesn't say it just says they will be handling out booster packs with every preorder tonight.
CyberJunk
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2005
- Messages
- 4,247
eh... does that mean no cool swag like energy drinks?
Breath_of_the_Dying
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,454