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Starcraft II

I would disagree with you about just making the game balanced for 1v1 even though I am sure if you balance one thing in 1v1 it will balance it in other modes.

Yes protoss has its weaknesses, but I still stand behind the fact that void rays need some balance changes in all formats of the game.
 
Or suspended for 1 day! :p

Has anyone played against someone they suspected of cheating though? I think I may have one time in a 2on2, since the other side seemed to be very aware of what we were building and doing despite no actual scouting I could tell, but I couldn't really be bothered to check the replay.
 
yep. you have to choke against zerg. I also do it in team games to help with the double attack. Have to go fast stalker vs terran too.
 
I had a friend who played against someone with mh. I think another played against someone with a drop hack.
 
Marshmallow64 said:
I had a friend who played against someone with mh. I think another played against someone with a drop hack.
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Maybe I could have had a few of those. I have disconnected randomly even when immediately after connection to Bnet and everywhere else seemed fine.
 
I had a game where it was 3v3, and for some reason both me and an opponent got kicked randomly like 3 min into the game. Not sure what happened either. But then again his own team member dropped.
 
Marshmallow64 said:
I had a game where it was 3v3, and for some reason both me and an opponent got kicked randomly like 3 min into the game. Not sure what happened either. But then again his own team member dropped.
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Last night when playing 3v3, two guys from the opposite team dropped right at the start. Needless to say, it was the easiest win yet ;)
 
how do u toss players rush zerg? everyone tells me rush with zeal how many do u guys get before u attack? what i tried was at 3 zeal attack but when i get to there base they have a coulpe sunken colonies my zeal die. so i keep building more and wait till i get a good amount like 10 then attack again but at this point the zerglings have speed and while im running to there base they have the zergning in mine quickly since there so fast. another game they rush for roach and they kill zeals. so how is the correct way to rush zerg with toss?
 
petertew said:
It's funny, I almost never use the ramp chokes for anything.
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Chokes and block-offs at the ramp are really powerful. It is kinda funny that you don't use them for anything. There are very few drawbacks but huge benefits. You will rarely(never at higher levels) see any toss or terran that will not wall off versus a zerg. With the toss using unit plugs.
 
dalearyous said:
wow, how did IGN give Civ V the same rating as SC2

as far as i am concerned, these games are on two different playing fields.

ugh i would have expected a max civ would get would be a 7
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When you think online sites rating games you have to think of a 15 year old ADD kid playing a game for a few weeks and giving a rating.

Obviously IGN and a lot of other sites prefer games like GTA where the only thinking they have to do is choosing which hooker to beat up.
 
alphaqforever247 said:
how do u toss players rush zerg? everyone tells me rush with zeal how many do u guys get before u attack? what i tried was at 3 zeal attack but when i get to there base they have a coulpe sunken colonies my zeal die. so i keep building more and wait till i get a good amount like 10 then attack again but at this point the zerglings have speed and while im running to there base they have the zergning in mine quickly since there so fast. another game they rush for roach and they kill zeals. so how is the correct way to rush zerg with toss?
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9 pylon
10 gate
10 gate

chronoboost zealots

The only way he has spine crawlers down is if he scouts it. The 2 gate rush was nerfed in the previous patch by increasing zealot build time by 5 seconds.

Honestly the best protoss 'rush' is just the 2 pylon contain. Build two pylons at the zerg ramp and a photon cannon behind it. Then expand and macro up as the zerg player cusses at you.
 
100inch said:
Chokes and block-offs at the ramp are really powerful. It is kinda funny that you don't use them for anything. There are very few drawbacks but huge benefits. You will rarely(never at higher levels) see any toss or terran that will not wall off versus a zerg. With the toss using unit plugs.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with most of what you wrote. I rarely use choked-ramps unless I'm doing something like fast carriers or expecting really early zerglings. As a Protoss choked off ramps can be a real detriment when a player rolls up with ranged units and my zealots start filing out 1 by 1. I prefer to invite players up the ramp, throw down a force field in the middle of their army and go to town on their units. You have to keep in mind too that if you choke your ramp you inhibit your mobility as much as you inhibit opponent mobility. This can be particularly problematic when you have to deal with drops in your base or air to ground mineral harass.
 
petertew said:
I don't agree with most of what you wrote. I rarely use choked-ramps unless I'm doing something like fast carriers or expecting really early zerglings. As a Protoss choked off ramps can be a real detriment when a player rolls up with ranged units and my zealots start filing out 1 by 1. I prefer to invite players up the ramp, throw down a force field in the middle of their army and go to town on their units. You have to keep in mind too that if you choke your ramp you inhibit your mobility as much as you inhibit opponent mobility. This can be particularly problematic when you have to deal with drops in your base or air to ground mineral harass.
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Regardless of early zerglings... it's still necessary to have some sort of block for zergling run by's at any point in the game. Even my 1800 rated roommate who plays toss loses some silly games because 12 zerglings magically appeared in his main because he forgot to plug the hole with a zealot when he moved out.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Regardless of early zerglings... it's still necessary to have some sort of block for zergling run by's at any point in the game. Even my 1800 rated roommate who plays toss loses some silly games because 12 zerglings magically appeared in his main because he forgot to plug the hole with a zealot when he moved out.
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I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Suppose he plugs the hole and instead of zerglings, mutalisks magically appear in his mineral line. Or he plugs the hole and the zerg ovie-bombs his mineral line with blings. People will always be able to get in your base and I'd prefer to have 1) a clear and open path back to it for my guys and 2) not obstruct my guys trying to get out of my base to engage the enemy.

Diff play style I suppose. I'm not an 1800 pt. Toss either, so I could be full of shit ;).
 
I'd say against zerg u need that block, mutas can be handled fine. Speedlings slipping in can be disastrous for the toss player. Good zerg players do this when there is a main battle, just like some terran do reaper hits during a main battle. For other races you do not need to block off the ramp with a zealot in place.
 
petertew said:
I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Suppose he plugs the hole and instead of zerglings, mutalisks magically appear in his mineral line. Or he plugs the hole and the zerg ovie-bombs his mineral line with blings. People will always be able to get in your base and I'd prefer to have 1) a clear and open path back to it for my guys and 2) not obstruct my guys trying to get out of my base to engage the enemy.

Diff play style I suppose. I'm not an 1800 pt. Toss either, so I could be full of shit ;).
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Making 12 zerglings and sitting near his base is 500 times easier than overlord dropping or mutalisk harassing. Zergling run by's can happen at any point in the game and requires a lot less investment of course.

In any case, it's not a detriment to plug your base at all regardless of 'early lings'. One big reason is actually scouting information. If a unit can't physically get in your base, how can he scout you? Zerg will have to sac a overlord and terran will have to use energy on a scan, etc.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Making 12 zerglings and sitting near his base is 500 times easier than overlord dropping or mutalisk harassing. Zergling run by's can happen at any point in the game and requires a lot less investment of course.

In any case, it's not a detriment to plug your base at all regardless of 'early lings'. One big reason is actually scouting information. If a unit can't physically get in your base, how can he scout you? Zerg will have to sac a overlord and terran will have to use energy on a scan, etc.
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In those cases, I'd send a overseer to the farthest area on the island/platform that is not guarded or has any enemy building near it (so I don't show up on minimap) and then drop in a changeling. Sometimes two, one to set to move-follow command one by his guys so I can track his army and another to run around for general intel.

I've found the cheapest way to get intel (I think) -- send in overseer, but not within range of anything -- just enough for a nydus to pop up and have a couple lings ready for scouting. Sometimes the enemy attacking the nydus with their army is a telltale of what they got, so it allows me to plan in advance.
 
Deluded said:
In those cases, I'd send a overseer to the farthest area on the island/platform that is not guarded or has any enemy building near it (so I don't show up on minimap) and then drop in a changeling. Sometimes two, one to set to move-follow command one by his guys so I can track his army and another to run around for general intel.

I've found the cheapest way to get intel (I think) -- send in overseer, but not within range of anything -- just enough for a nydus to pop up and have a couple lings ready for scouting. Sometimes the enemy attacking the nydus with their army is a telltale of what they got, so it allows me to plan in advance.
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That is his point. Look at how much resources/effort you are spending on scouting now because his base is blocked. If it weren't one zergling could scout his base.
 
Deluded said:
In those cases, I'd send a overseer to the farthest area on the island/platform that is not guarded or has any enemy building near it (so I don't show up on minimap) and then drop in a changeling. Sometimes two, one to set to move-follow command one by his guys so I can track his army and another to run around for general intel.

I've found the cheapest way to get intel (I think) -- send in overseer, but not within range of anything -- just enough for a nydus to pop up and have a couple lings ready for scouting. Sometimes the enemy attacking the nydus with their army is a telltale of what they got, so it allows me to plan in advance.
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Overseer is lair tech. Getting your first vital scouting information at lair tech isn't exactly optimal.

Almost all high level players do an overlord sac well before that. The fact that you're just getting information on your opponent's build at lair could mean that it's too late. Again, another reason to block your choke. Terran have it the easiest and zerg... well zerg just can't.
 
limitedaccess said:
That is his point. Look at how much resources/effort you are spending on scouting now because his base is blocked. If it weren't one zergling could scout his base.
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Oh, so toss doesn't have to expend resources to scout, or terran sacrifice economy for scouting?

From what I understand, getting observers is a somewhat expensive tech considering you have to satisfy some prerequisites in order to get observers (early game). Plus, if toss is blocking the ramps, it usually means they are focusing their full attention on the army and/or economy and don't want you in.

Terran? Scan = instant loss of 10+min for w/e duration those MULES last.

Zerg? Basically in all games I've played vs toss or terrans, I've always had one overseer around just in case -- 50/100 is a small investment, and lookie, they become immediately avaliable when you get lair, and then it doesn't cost you anything extra to get changlings out. Quite frankly, it's cheaper to scout as zerg than it is for others (unless you really don't care about the extra income as terran).
 
We're not debating which race has an easier time scouting. The original point is that blocking your choke at least forces more expensive ways to scout and later/delayed scouting as well. Your point about observers further backs up a reason to block the choke.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
We're not debating which race has an easier time scouting. The original point is that blocking your choke at least forces more expensive ways to scout and later/delayed scouting as well. Your point about observers further backs up a reason to block the choke.
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Ah, hmm. It's a shame though, the overseers don't get excrete creep (....uhm...cute name...) until lair technology, so you can't immediately at the early onset game have a ovie spreading creep and blocking with spine crawlers.

Although if that did happen, then it would mean that spine crawler rush would actually be somewhat viable provided you sent the ovie at the enemy base first thing into the game. :D

And harass terran/toss by forcing them to wait until the creep goes away until they can build (fun tactic to do at all their nat. expo).

Ah well. Then again, that's why you generally scout when you have drones.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
9 pylon
10 gate
10 gate

chronoboost zealots

The only way he has spine crawlers down is if he scouts it. The 2 gate rush was nerfed in the previous patch by increasing zealot build time by 5 seconds.

Honestly the best protoss 'rush' is just the 2 pylon contain. Build two pylons at the zerg ramp and a photon cannon behind it. Then expand and macro up as the zerg player cusses at you.
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You wont have enough money for 2 gateways at 10. You even have enough for one gateway at 10 actually.

I get my first usable 150minerals at 12 if I pump probes out constantly. So this is the ideal 2 gate zealot rush:

9 pylon
12 gate
13 gate

Save chrono boosts for zealots and rally them to the enemy's base
 
I choke against zerg 90% of the time. Why? Because zerglings come in large numbers and they and run by your zealots and to your probe line. I use one zealot to block the gap in the choke. You can still split an opponent's army in half with a FF even if you block a choke. I choke about 50% of the time against protoss depending on the map because it lets me know if my opponent brought a probe into my base for a cannon rush or a scout. It can prevent a probe from getting in if it builds a pylon on the bottom of the cliff next your base. This method have saved me from cannon rush MANY times.

I pretty much never block against terran however but it may not be a bad idea against hellions.

Using 2 gates or 1gate/1cyber is a good method to block the choke and prevent a successful baneling bust. YOu can double pylon also.
 
ThumperSD said:
You wont have enough money for 2 gateways at 10. You even have enough for one gateway at 10 actually.

I get my first usable 150minerals at 12 if I pump probes out constantly. So this is the ideal 2 gate zealot rush:

9 pylon
12 gate
13 gate

Save chrono boosts for zealots and rally them to the enemy's base
Click to expand...

Obviously you don't get them at the same time. Get 10 gate... wait for 150, then another gate.

If you 12 then 13 gate you might as well not bother with the 2 gate rush.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Obviously you don't get them at the same time. Get 10 gate... wait for 150, then another gate.

If you 12 then 13 gate you might as well not bother with the 2 gate rush.
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I dont suggest stopping the production of probes at 10. I dont believe in the all-in tactic as 2 gate is easily countered in diamond. Do you have enough enough minerals to support 2 gateways with 10 probes? You will have to wait while stopping all probe production to get 300 minerals for 2 gateways at 10. This strategy is similar to the all in 6 pool.

This strategy will put you significantly behind in probe counter and minerals but will allow you to get zealots a bit faster.

You might as well proxy the gateways if you are going to go all-in. All of the 2 gates ive seen done by Huk, day9 and other players are at 12 and 13. This used to be my strategy 75% of the time until I started playing plat and diamond players. It works great even against some lower platinum players but fails 90% of the time against better platinum/diamond players. The intent would then be to kill as many probes as you can to slow him down. Because if the 2 gate fails, you are really behind and may lose in the next few minutes because you will be behind in tech. This will allow you to build zealots from both gateways while still pumping out probes and throwing up more pylons.
 
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ThumperSD said:
I dont suggest stopping the production of probes at 10. I dont believe in the all-in tactic as 2 gate is easily countered in diamond. Do you have enough enough minerals to support 2 gateways with 10 probes? You will have to wait while stopping all probe production to get 300 minerals for 2 gateways at 10. This strategy is similar to the all in 6 pool.

This strategy will put you significantly behind in probe counter and minerals but will allow you to get zealots a bit faster.

You might as well proxy the gateways if you are going to go all-in. All of the 2 gates ive seen done by Huk, day9 and other players are at 12 and 13. This used to be my strategy 75% of the time until I started playing plat and diamond players. It works great even against some lower platinum players but fails 90% of the time against better platinum/diamond players. The intent would then be to kill as many probes as you can to slow him down. Because if the 2 gate fails, you are really behind and may lose in the next few minutes because you will be behind in tech. This will allow you to build zealots from both gateways while still pumping out probes and throwing up more pylons.
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In that case I don't suggest doing 2 gate at all. I just played a 2 gater the other day and once you scout it all you have to do is put down two spine crawlers and it's nullified. I don't see how you can get enough zealots by going 12/13 gate to prevent a response from the zerg especially after the zealot nerf.
 
I don't know how many of you watch the Day9 dailys, but I've been having a lot of fun with carriers lately, especially against Terran. Had a guy push hard with an early marine push followed by a grip of reapers while I went carriers, zealots and stalkers and beat him pretty handily. If there is a cliff or you catch someone not microing carriers absolutely rape marines.
 
Hmm, I need to read up some more. I've play though all of the 50 practice league games as Terran and still don't know much. I should probably figure out what a Gate is, or for that matter, what everything is and looks like (for Zerg and Protoss).

I always get to their base, and have no clue what to target cause I don't know what each thing is, lol. I've lost many games that I should have easily won cause I couldn't properly finish my opponent off.

Honestly, as of right now, I couldn't tell you the difference between a Gate, Assimlator, or Stargate.
 
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