Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

[Lorien]

Sorry for the shitty format but dissecting the post into multiple quotes and answering each was going to be a pain in the ass and it's late.

I am thinking more about the docking and ship capturing aspects of the game.
Lets say we disabled an enemy ship

Here what are the options?
a)destroy enemy ship, collect loot+salvage the wreck maybe
-Go home, enjoy a brewski at the bar, tell the tale Yes to all, but destroying a ship will destroy almost all of the cargo and thus there'll be little if any profit as you're already in the red from using fuel, missiles, ammo, etc. Even if the cargo is destroyed you can take the ship, clean the tags and use it or sell it in the black market.

b)board the ship and capture it
-Attach to the ship You can actually put and EVA suit and fly the gap, you are not obligated to dock with a ship, in fact there are ships that don't have a docking ring.
-Cut the door open Yes there might be places where you can breach teh hull but that is a "maybe" feature.
-Enter the ship
1.Just take the ship like that? You can if the crew have abandoned the ship in escape pods or died because you shot their life support and their air ran out. You can literally disable the ship, shoot the life support out and wait 'til the crew dies.
2. Maybe have to fight off the crew? Yes if you want to ensure the crew does not destroy their cargo or set a self destruct to the ship to spite you. You will have to fight them off and get to the self destruct and disable it.
-Who is going to drive the captured ship now? Anyone that can. It is only logical to assume that if you brought enough troops to board and take over a ship that you will be able to spare someone to pilot the ship after it's been captured.
-Why risk boarding the ship, what if you can't capture it, just your boys die ala FTL and you move on? Probably, yes. As a side note, the $26M stretch goal is pretty much the FTL ship boarding mechanics brought into Star Citizen

c)tow the ship....? maybe Yes you can tow a ship
--Where? A starbase but make sure it's not UEE patrolled, an Idris or other friendly ship in which you can dock. Your asteroid hangar if you are close enough.
-What to do with it now, just let the crew starve to death for a few weeks, enter and collect their
corpses? See earlier reply about letting crew die. If you plan on towing a ship you better make sure everything is disabled as they could still have power to the weapons systems, and make sure you are jamming any distress calls they may send out, etc.

I am thinking capturing ships are going to be multiship ship endeavors. Very much so
Cutlass has room for 2 people, No, it has 2 seats for crew but much more room for extra people/cargo. They have talked about being able to take extra people apart from crew seats, they just haven't decided on what limits, etc.
one needs to be at the helm, meaning when it attaches, it can send one guy out. No you can leave your ship unnocupied and EVA to the other ship.

Most ships that can be boarded host 2 or more crew members, so when you are trying to capture a ship using a cutlass you are almost always guaranteed to be outnumbered...Capturing ships is not a single ship endeavor and you should probably bring a properly crewed Caterpillar along anyways.

P.S: $26M stretch goal description:

Enhanced Capital Ship Systems – In addition to the command and control systems we’ve already outlined, we’re going to expand capital ship functions! Lead a damage control team to fight fires and repair key systems during battle, control internal bulkheads to slow boarders and man a number of consoles, like navigation and engineering, that will make commanding a capital ship feel even more immersive.

 

[Thuleman]

2x Super hornets, will be my primary solo combat ship, and a second for a wing man, or if im flying the m50, ill use 2 supers as wing men.

Seems way too early to buy ships that may eventually be flown by the AI. No AI will even come close to the performance of a human player. AI controlled ships will just be ez kills.

 

[FrEaKy]

Seems way too early to buy ships that may eventually be flown by the AI. No AI will even come close to the performance of a human player. AI controlled ships will just be ez kills.

While I wholeheartedly agree if the AI ships were flying alone, if you have a human controlled ship and 2 AI ships, its a lot harder to fight than if it were flown by the AI alone.

Its not a bad idea, plus the 2 AI ships can serve as a major distraction while the player does the fly-ins and gets the kills.

 

[ekuest]

While I wholeheartedly agree if the AI ships were flying alone, if you have a human controlled ship and 2 AI ships, its a lot harder to fight than if it were flown by the AI alone.

Its not a bad idea, plus the 2 AI ships can serve as a major distraction while the player does the fly-ins and gets the kills.

yep, and if those AI ships get blowed up? meh, LTI.

 

[FrEaKy]

yep, and if those AI ships get blowed up? meh, LTI.

Not to mention the fact that he can also take the blown up bits and maybe sell the scrap metal. So, between LTI and scrap metal sales, its a good way to rake in some cash.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

So I was put down for $10 for the Colonel Bronze citizen card and will be collecting payment info from me in about 3 weeks and will be on my doorstep in a few months time. Gonna be fun. Especially when T-shirts come back in stock.

 

[Wildace]

Quick note: According to Rob the M50 is made of tissue paper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w6lBy_t50o#

Really not worried about that, my m50 is going to be a high speed dog fighter like an A-Wing, military grade shielding and weapons.

Seems way too early to buy ships that may eventually be flown by the AI. No AI will even come close to the performance of a human player. AI controlled ships will just be ez kills.

having AI wing men is not ideal, but i also do not only have to let AI fly them, i can let one of my friends fly them if they are online too. a couple of my friends only have base aurora game packages that they got for free from people in live chat, and i have no problem with them using some of my better ships if we are all going on the same mission. plus AI cant be completely horrible at flying, since 90% of the population in the PU is going ot be AI or the game would be a complete joke and be too easy.

 

[shifty68]

honestly I dont know what the fun of flying with a horde of ai would be. for me its going to be people or nothing, well except a possible crewman.

 

[Wildace]

i dont think flying with ai will be fun, but its better than nothing if no one else is around. and i wouldn't call 2 wing men a horde

 

[Wildace]

Cloud Imperium Games (Cloud Imperium Games)

Oct 28 12:07 (CDT)

Hi there,
I have put you on the $10 Gold VA list and we will be collecting final details in about three weeks time.
Thanks for your patience!
Best,
Sandi

looks like i am Getting a Gold Citizen card

I am only a Veteran backer so its not original backer only.

so if any one wants a Citizen card, send in a support ticket and get your name on the list before its too late.

im glad i bought 35$ in skins a few days ago that dinged me Vice Admiral before i sent in i wanted a citizen card so i wont be stuck with Rear Admiral

 

[Weenis]

Cloud Imperium Games (Cloud Imperium Games)

Oct 28 12:07 (CDT)

Hi there,
I have put you on the $10 Gold VA list and we will be collecting final details in about three weeks time.
Thanks for your patience!
Best,
Sandi

looks like i am Getting a Gold Citizen card

I am only a Veteran backer so its not original backer only.

so if any one wants a Citizen card, send in a support ticket and get your name on the list before its too late.

im glad i bought 35$ in skins a few days ago that dinged me Vice Admiral before i sent in i wanted a citizen card so i wont be stuck with Rear Admiral

what are the $ values for each class?

Also, wonder if they would do it for a new backer?

I'm a vice right now...

 

[Wildace]

250 is Rear, 500 is Vice, 1000 is High Admiral.

 

[Andyk5]

I could not decide on what to get as far as the Caterpillar or the Retaliator so decided to get an Idris if I can.

Anyone who owns an Idris-M, if you ever decide to melt it for something else, let me know. I want to buy it

 

[Mungojerrie]

I could not decide on what to get as far as the Caterpillar or the Retaliator so decided to get an Idris if I can.

Anyone who owns an Idris-M, if you ever decide to melt it for something else, let me know. I want to buy it

I like your decision making skills

 

[DPI]

Question for you guys following this project more closely than I, or anyone thats given this game your money already. Is anyone concerned that no actual space combat has been shown yet and instead its mostly high poly ship models dominating ythe announcements?

This game is raking in a frightening amount of money and I realize it's pre-alpha but getting a bit concerned by the lack of core gameplay reveals and wonder if its headed into that too-good-to-be-true zone of game development.

 

[Weenis]

I could not decide on what to get as far as the Caterpillar or the Retaliator so decided to get an Idris if I can.

Anyone who owns an Idris-M, if you ever decide to melt it for something else, let me know. I want to buy it

I vote you get a retaliator, then if you can get an Idris to get one.. and keep the retaliator.

Surely you have friends to help you out flying them

 

[diableri]

Question for you guys following this project more closely than I, or anyone thats given this game your money already. Is anyone concerned that no actual space combat has been shown yet and instead its mostly high poly ship models dominating ythe announcements?

This game is raking in a frightening amount of money and I realize it's pre-alpha but getting a bit concerned by the lack of core gameplay reveals and wonder if its headed into that too-good-to-be-true zone of game development.

Totally understand the sentiment but not worried at all here due to the people involved.

We've seen demos and combat environments in engine and know that there's a combat module that already exists it just isn't fleshed out enough to show people due to crashes and any kind of polish.

 

[FrEaKy]

I shall name my Idris......... Elba

 

[Pringle]

I shall name my Idris......... Elba

Idris Elba approves

 

[Wildace]

Question for you guys following this project more closely than I, or anyone thats given this game your money already. Is anyone concerned that no actual space combat has been shown yet and instead its mostly high poly ship models dominating ythe announcements?

This game is raking in a frightening amount of money and I realize it's pre-alpha but getting a bit concerned by the lack of core gameplay reveals and wonder if its headed into that too-good-to-be-true zone of game development.

well they cant really show us combat when they dont really have it ready to show, the game is so early in its development that usually we dont even hear about the game yet let alone see fleshed game mechanics.

look at X rebirth, its 18 days from release and we know more about Star Citizen than we do about Rebirth lol. only thing we have seen from rebirth is some random video clips with some narration and a 10min. gamescom demo

Star Citizen and CiG are throwing the gaming scene on its head giving the gamers the people that spent money on the game an inside track to the development.

i expect the dogfight alpha to be very very primitive and not really represent the final product in any form so dont let the dogfight alpha's state be discouraging its so early yet.

they are still making game content like models and textures and coding features that what we see now is really only a drop in the bucket of the content they need to create. and they cant show SQ42 gameplay or PU stuff when they dont have all the models/content done to actually build those parts of the game.

 

[Decimus]

I am curious how long you guy's think the stretch goals will keep going? I can easily see them hitting 35mil before the end of the year so do you think they will keep adding stretch goals indefinitely until the game is released or will they just cut it off at some point?

 

[FrEaKy]

Idris Elba approves

Excellent actor

I would donate more money if they got Nathan Fillion and Idris Elba and of course Mr. Freeman himself to do voices!

 

[Pringle]

Excellent actor

I would donate more money if they got Nathan Fillion and Idris Elba and of course Mr. Freeman himself to do voices!

Sir, I would actually CONTRIBUTE to this game financially if either man were involved

 

[FrEaKy]

I am curious how long you guy's think the stretch goals will keep going? I can easily see them hitting 35mil before the end of the year so do you think they will keep adding stretch goals indefinitely until the game is released or will they just cut it off at some point?

They always joked if we hit 54 million, Bengals for all!

 

[shifty68]

lol what happens if we hit 54 mil by the time the pu comes out. ever one better start raging about their lack of bengals

 

[DPI]

Idris Elba approves

If he isn't one of the most underrated actors working today. Luther is fantastic for anyone unaware (Netflix it) and Mandella looks like it'll be his best work yet. I cringe when they keep putting him in goofy shit that doesn't give him much room to flex his talents in (Prometheus, Pacific Rim etc). /DERAIL

 

[Pringle]

If he isn't one of the most underrated actors working today. Luther is fantastic for anyone unaware (Netflix it) and Mandella looks like it'll be his best work yet. I cringe when they keep putting him in goofy shit that doesn't give him much room to flex his talents in (Prometheus, Pacific Rim etc). /DERAIL

Idris deserves a derailment, he blew me away in The Wire

 

[Decimus]

Back on topic. To anyone who pays attention have we heard if they will be giving us 2560x1440 support soon? I am kinda surprised at the resolutions they are supporting but I have not seen 2560x1440 yet which I didn't think was that uncommon. . .

 

[Skripka]

Back on topic. To anyone who pays attention have we heard if they will be giving us 2560x1440 support soon? I am kinda surprised at the resolutions they are supporting but I have not seen 2560x1440 yet which I didn't think was that uncommon. . .

I thought I read somewhere you could force 1440p via config file options.

That being said, despite reports of 1600p not working...works fine here.

 

[Andyk5]

Question for you guys following this project more closely than I, or anyone thats given this game your money already. Is anyone concerned that no actual space combat has been shown yet and instead its mostly high poly ship models dominating ythe announcements?

This game is raking in a frightening amount of money and I realize it's pre-alpha but getting a bit concerned by the lack of core gameplay reveals and wonder if its headed into that too-good-to-be-true zone of game development.

I have played pirated games for years because I did not believe that they deserved any money. This way I played almost every game that is released with 0 commitment. If the game sucked I did not care, if it was hard, I used cheat codes, overall I either dropped it after a short period of time or beat it using cheat codes. As I got older and started working and made some money, I started buying games. I played less, but I actually owned the game. Owning the game made me pay more attention to the games, Easter eggs, story, lore, graphics, cut scenes. I started liking the games more and they became more immersive for me. Even then I could not get my self to pay for many games except Star Wars Galaxies, StarCraft 2, Civilization series, EvE Online and War Thunder.

This is the first time I feel like someone is making a game that I really want, every time a new thing is unfolded, I get more excited which never happened before. So as a person who thought 3 weeks before forking out $10 for FTL, I have dropped $300 for Star Citizen in 2 days. I would buy the Scythe and Idris-M if there was a buy it now button and to reach this kind of game that I was hoping to play for 20 years, I am willing to take the risk of this all being a hoaxy dream and RSI running to Switzerland with $30million of our money.

In order to meet customer expectations, all you need is vision and interest. You can give Dick Cheney 100million and they could not make you a good game, these guys could have done all of this that they have done for probably 1 million on a smaller, less graphic's intensive way. They look like they enjoy what they are doing and have freedom over their own art, which is usually an excellent sign before something great is happening.

 

[Thuleman]

Not to mention the fact that he can also take the blown up bits and maybe sell the scrap metal. So, between LTI and scrap metal sales, its a good way to rake in some cash.

So what you are saying is that there is mad money to be made having two accounts, and blowing up each other's module-less LTI ships for scrap over and over ...., I like it!

plus AI cant be completely horrible at flying, since 90% of the population in the PU is going ot be AI or the game would be a complete joke and be too easy.

AI will be completely terrible, that's basically guaranteed. There really isn't a single game out there, single player, multi-player, or MMO, that has an AI that's not 100% predictable and just downright terrible no matter what.

This isn't a Star Citizen problem, it's a problem that affects all games. On the one hand it's a resource issue. Computers are very efficient at analyzing a predictable situation in a well defined environment, but they are terrible at quickly analyzing a random situation.

CCP had over a decade to monkey with the PvE AI, and the results at meh at best. The AI was adjusted over time but it remains trivial to beat because the AI response and capabilities are well known.

For the AI to be good (good being defined as truly being able to respond to a unique situation in a way that is appropriate for that situation) you'd need several orders of magnitude more CPU cycles that desktops have available.

Humans can process a situation in a massively parallel way and make a split second decision. Computers can do the same, but only if there's enough CPU power to consider all the possibilities.

What will make the AI in a PvE setting "difficult" is that they will just spawn more ships at you, or they will have you in range before you have them in range, or any other kind of hackery that will give the AI a slight advantage, but once you know what the AI does it will be ez to find a work-around just like in any other game.

 

[Thuleman]

Question for you guys following this project more closely than I, or anyone thats given this game your money already. Is anyone concerned that no actual space combat has been shown yet and instead its mostly high poly ship models dominating ythe announcements?

This game is raking in a frightening amount of money and I realize it's pre-alpha but getting a bit concerned by the lack of core gameplay reveals and wonder if its headed into that too-good-to-be-true zone of game development.

From where I am looking, as someone who has put down several hundred dollars, I expect this game to not live up to the hype. Doesn't matter who produces it, everyone is fallible, and just like that other company out East that got overfunded by 2 mil and realized they needed another 4 mil to actually deliver what they promised for 200k I do expect that Star Citizen will underdeliver.

Basically it's like this; if you put money into Star Citizen you need to consider that money to be lost to you with no return whatsoever. Then, if something comes of the game, great! If nothing comes of it, then you won't be disappointed.

 

[diableri]

From where I am looking, as someone who has put down several hundred dollars, I expect this game to not live up to the hype. Doesn't matter who produces it, everyone is fallible, and just like that other company out East that got overfunded by 2 mil and realized they needed another 4 mil to actually deliver what they promised for 200k I do expect that Star Citizen will underdeliver.

Basically it's like this; if you put money into Star Citizen you need to consider that money to be lost to you with no return whatsoever. Then, if something comes of the game, great! If nothing comes of it, then you won't be disappointed.

I think that's the best attitude someone could have going in that's not going to rabidly follow the game, isn't a huge CR fan and willing to do a metric ton of catch up reading and content consuming. Once the game is nearing release, it will be MUCH easier for people to make a judgement on value and whether or not it'll be something they're into.

Since we're getting to see things far earlier than ever and the designers and devs are evolving without as many closed doors, people are making judgments based on past experience which don't apply here. Following the development closely, it's easy to see where they are coming from and keep up with the shifts and changes; not so much for those casually watching due to a lack of time or interest. It's one of the reasons the forums are such a shitshow (aside from the normal forums issues of just being forums).

 

[Andyk5]

I think that's the best attitude someone could have going in that's not going to rabidly follow the game, isn't a huge CR fan and willing to do a metric ton of catch up reading and content consuming. Once the game is nearing release, it will be MUCH easier for people to make a judgement on value and whether or not it'll be something they're into.

Since we're getting to see things far earlier than ever and the designers and devs are evolving without as many closed doors, people are making judgments based on past experience which don't apply here. Following the development closely, it's easy to see where they are coming from and keep up with the shifts and changes; not so much for those casually watching due to a lack of time or interest. It's one of the reasons the forums are such a shitshow (aside from the normal forums issues of just being forums).

I disagree. Chris Roberts or not, I don't even care is it is Jesus Christ him self, if you can't deliver a good space simulation in 3 years of development time and 30 million dollars of royalty and interest free funding which is being thrown at your lap faster than you can spend it, then there is something fishy in there.

FOR EVERYONE WHO LOST HIS MIND IN THE FEEDING CHRIS ROBERTS CASH NO MATTER WHAT FRENZY!!

At JPL for 30 million dollars we can put a real, fully functional Communication satellite in to a geosynchronous orbit where it can provide High speed internet, high definition Television or cell phone service to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. Actual REAL, existing space ships that last anywhere from 15-30 years, that provide real services.

Comparing to that if a software company can't deliver a game which exists in software only and has absolutely 0 real life benefit to humanity, for 30 god damn million dollars, then the people behind the project are complete idiots and we are stupider than they are for giving our money to them.

TLDR: For the amount of money they have, I will not accept any excuse except an absolutely perfect game.

 

[diableri]

You are bad at comparing things and should feel bad.

EDIT: And just to be clear, there are so many ways to fuck this up for hundreds of thousands of people that could be lumped into many, many different categories of expectations that there's absolutely NO CHANCE that everyone will be happy. Any thought that full delivery of everything is hilariously idealistic for 300 million dollars (let alone 30) because it's not a money issue; it's a people suck issue.

 

[Ocellaris]

Software projects at any cash flow level can succeed or utterly fail based on simple decisions by a few people. The money won't affect the flight mechanics of the game engine, it will affect the number of "things" people can potentially do.

No matter how many features they have, the game will tank if it wasn't fun to fly. Just like if the game was still a $2 million project and the flight was amazing, it would take off.

Now personally I would have been happy as shit if they just made Wing Commander HD (w/multiplayer) so i should be fine here.

 

[Skripka]

Software projects at any cash flow level can succeed or utterly fail based on simple decisions by a few people. The money won't affect the flight mechanics of the game engine, it will affect the number of "things" people can potentially do.

No matter how many features they have, the game will tank if it wasn't fun to fly. Just like if the game was still a $2 million project and the flight was amazing, it would take off.

Now personally I would have been happy as shit if they just made Wing Commander HD (w/multiplayer) so i should be fine here.

Fortunately, I think enough major franchises have bottomed from major publishers lately that there are plenty of object lessons for what not to do for these guys.

From SimCity5, to the botched Star Wars MMORPG, Dragon Age 2, and the flak the Crysis games have gotten, Microsoft Flight...


Either way considering any game new these days is $60USD....paying $75-$150 or so doesn't seem bad to get early access and extra goodies like the soundtrack etc.

 

[Tudz]

TLDR: For the amount of money they have, I will not accept any excuse except an absolutely perfect game.

"Perfect game" is a bit of a stretch, there's plenty of games with equally large or even significantly larger budgets that I wouldn't consider perfect. Throwing money at something doesn't make it good.

EDIT: Also, I don't believe 30 million dollars will get you much of a satellite in space. Cheaper ones are more like $100 mill to get up and more sophisticated ones are closer to $1B.

 

[Andyk5]

"Perfect game" is a bit of a stretch, there's plenty of games with equally large or even significantly larger budgets that I wouldn't consider perfect. Throwing money at something doesn't make it good.

EDIT: Also, I don't believe 30 million dollars will get you much of a satellite in space. Cheaper ones are more like $100 mill to get up and more sophisticated ones are closer to $1B.

30 million gets you a really nice satellite trust me. I am working on a $200,000 (including NASA sponsored launch) and even though it can't stream 50MBps highspeed internet this little guy can do many amazing things by measuring atmospheric effects at low earth orbit.

For 1bil, we go to Jupiter( a planet further away from us than Mars, Mercury, Venus and the Sun combined). Juno which is probably one of the biggest space faring objects ever built by man, with absolutely the biggest solar cells ever built cost 1.1 billion. It is on its way to Jupiter and it will power it self using solar rays, all though it will be 778 million kilometers from the sun. so we are spending about 1.5 dollars for every 1km we travel in space including the cost of the delivery vehicle, space craft and all the instrumentation.

And some of you are telling me, it is going to take a couple stupid decisions to ruin this game.... lol it is not.
It took SOE ( Sony Online Entertainment) years to completely ruin an otherwise great game called Star Wars Galaxies, after they purchased it.

 

[Weenis]

30 million gets you a really nice satellite trust me. I am working on a $200,000 (including NASA sponsored launch) and even though it can't stream 50MBps highspeed internet this little guy can do many amazing things by measuring atmospheric effects at low earth orbit.

For 1bil, we go to Jupiter( a planet further away from us than Mars, Mercury, Venus and the Sun combined). Juno which is probably one of the biggest space faring objects ever built by man, with absolutely the biggest solar cells ever built cost 1.1 billion. It is on its way to Jupiter and it will power it self using solar rays, all though it will be 778 million kilometers from the sun. so we are spending about 1.5 dollars for every 1km we travel in space including the cost of the delivery vehicle, space craft and all the instrumentation.

And some of you are telling me, it is going to take a couple stupid decisions to ruin this game.... lol it is not.
It took SOE ( Sony Online Entertainment) years to completely ruin an otherwise great game called Star Wars Galaxies, after they purchased it.

Please tell me you aren't working on any logical programming of said satellite?

Seriously dude, your claims are completely ridden with logic flaws.

You cannot equate a hardware deliverable with specific software requirements to fulfill a functional role to a software deliverable with a functional role of "fun". It's relative to the interpretation of the userbase, it's success or failure is entirely dependent on things like.. marketing, timing of release (this has screwed many games), if the software can meet expectations (realistic or unrealistic)...

The hurdles are very different for video games. Do you think it is a coincidence COD games are pretty much the same thing rehashed?