Star Citizen Backers No Longer Able to Get Refunds

[Korrd]

Have they defined the roles/classes for users/npcs, and have they published out all the ships or at least main variations of them? Are the main quests in?

Not sure what you mean about roles/classes, since I don't think there are any rigid confines intended. It's more down to your gear and play style than anything. I really only watch the occasional SC video on Youtube, though, so maybe I'm just not well informed. As for ships, there are quite a few playable now, but many more planned (I found this cool image for reference). And quests? Honestly no idea. I know there are quests, but how many or their relevance to a main story I don't know (unless you mean in SQ42, which is really a different beast mission-wise and I'm certain pretty well-defined by this stage).

 

[Exavior]

2025 so that means a 13 year development cycle? I'm really just trying to figure out what the timeline looks like for the hardcore fan.

Like I always say initially I'd kill for SQ42 or even better a new X-Wing or Tie Fighter game. A man can dream.

So the same amount of time as kingdom hearts 3’s development cycle.

 

[Korrd]

I actually don’t mean my question to come off as accusatory or anti star citizen. I’m legit excited even if they can only deliver SQ42.

Same, though I fully expect to see both games because of reasons I don't need to repeat for the 137th time.

To answer your question, though--not that I consider myself a "loyal fan"; more of an interested observer--I'd be very concerned if we don't see an eminently playable (i.e., largely feature-complete and reasonably polished) version of SC by the end of 2020. I'm hoping it'll be far enough along by the end of this year for me to finally play it in earnest. I expect SQ42 to be a bit longer, since that'll have to wait until it's actually done before we get our hands on it, whereas SC will be playable through all its iterations.

If we don't see release versions of both games by end of 2021, I'd say management has utterly failed. The games will still come out eventually, but none of the people in charge should ever manage a project again. That and the longer it take to release, the more aged the games will look when they finally do. That's not a good wall to be up against.

 

[ManofGod]

Glad I never gave them a single, solitary penny. When an actual game is released, I will buy it. Until then...…..nada...…..

 

[viivo]

The number of people actively supporting and ferociously defending this could make for a good case against ethical practices. Why be honest, respectful, and work with determination when you can go years without doing anything and still get paid for it. Meanwhile, the people you stole from spend hours of their life defending your public image and product for free. Win-win.

 

[SomeoneElse]

It doesn't matter what he did. We aren't talking about him. It is what you said.

Korrd is referring to me, and what I said but I was using logic is this statement but he's clearly using his silver of argument against what I said to try to make some truth out of what he thinks. The logical progression of removing the refunds for backers is simple:
They don't have nearly the amount of money they want to continue this extremely long development cycle - They have to many people seeing the daylight and wanting a refund since they aren't delivering on their promises of having things completed according to their milestones. So instead of gaining money they are bleeding.
Something they are failing to see or just plain refusing to admit this is the most logical thing that is happening.
But I agree with you he's being belligerent about the situation.

 

[Shadowed]

I would often get shit for playing Elite Dangerous over Star Citizen. SC sounded like it would be everything I wanted in a Space game. I eventually had to try SC, and the Squadron 42 package was what I bought. Needless to say I am back to playing Elite Dangerous.


I want Star Citizen to be a fully polished game. I don't think Chris and his team are qualified to do it though. We may actually see a released game before 2030; or a Chapter 11.

 

[Krazy925]

Korrd is referring to me, and what I said but I was using logic is this statement but he's clearly using his silver of argument against what I said to try to make some truth out of what he thinks. The logical progression of removing the refunds for backers is simple:
They don't have nearly the amount of money they want to continue this extremely long development cycle - They have to many people seeing the daylight and wanting a refund since they aren't delivering on their promises of having things completed according to their milestones. So instead of gaining money they are bleeding.
Something they are failing to see or just plain refusing to admit this is the most logical thing that is happening.
But I agree with you he's being belligerent about the situation.

I think that’s a stretch. The amount of refunds being requested most likely isn’t that high, and as far as I know, they’re still making new ships and people are most likely buying them.

I mean they’ve sold like $200m+ already right? I don’t think that well just suddenly dried up.

This thread is proof of that. Although it’s less people than previous threads.

 

[scojer]

I think that’s a stretch. The amount of refunds being requested most likely isn’t that high, and as far as I know, they’re still making new ships and people are most likely buying them.

I mean they’ve sold like $200m+ already right? I don’t think that well just suddenly dried up.

This thread is proof of that. Although it’s less people than previous threads.

Because the main thread for this "game" is in the PC gaming section. that's where they all live, and a few venture out once in a while.

The screenshots in that thread look great, and make the game seem promising. But it also seems like a life simulator in space. I don't have time for that. I want a GAME, not a life simulator. I'll wait for Squadron 47. Or whatever it's called.

 

[NoOther]

Policy doesn't always mirror a TOS, though. We have an example of that without even looking beyond this story; CIG/SC's TOS describes a 14-day refund policy while the company actually employs a 30-day window. So yes, a policy change to deny refunds would be shitty. No, such a change in policy has not occurred, either in the TOS or in actual practice.

Did you even bother reading the TOS?

Incorrect. The TOS is policy. The company can choose to do something different, but policy is what is written. Also I did bother reading the TOS, did you? It has a number of ways they can deny refunds to people, especially if you just install one of their modules once on your system. That would constitute use according to their TOS and therefore is subject to denial of refund. They have not yet specified anywhere how much use constitutes full denial.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

The fact that people still defend this mess is astounding. If you are actually a fan, not a blind one you should be outraged. The amount of known mismanagement at this point is way beyond inexcusable. Someone needs to be holding CIG accountable and quit accepting excuses or this game is going to be the next DNF.

 

[NoOther]

The fact that people still defend this mess is astounding. If you are actually a fan, not a blind one you should be outraged. The amount of known mismanagement at this point is way beyond inexcusable. Someone needs to be holding CIG accountable and quit accepting excuses or this game is going to be the next DNF.

Disappointed and angry about continued missed deadlines and changing their agenda certainly (IE working on PU before Squadron42...). I do think they should be held accountable as well, but not at my expense. I am a fan and I did participate in the crowdfunding, however I did so fully knowing I may never see a product. I am sad with how things are going, but am also content to wait it all out. For those that funded it expecting a product, they should be fully within their rights to demand a refund. At some point you wonder if they will start a class action lawsuit against CIG.

 

[Krazy925]

Because the main thread for this "game" is in the PC gaming section. that's where they all live, and a few venture out once in a while.

The screenshots in that thread look great, and make the game seem promising. But it also seems like a life simulator in space. I don't have time for that. I want a GAME, not a life simulator. I'll wait for Squadron 47. Or whatever it's called.

I actually just stumbled on that thread and it didn’t seem very interesting.

Even scanning seems like a chore. They really should put out a good starship fighting game (SQ42) and then finish up with the persistent universe. This makes no sense.

 

[SomeoneElse]

I think that’s a stretch. The amount of refunds being requested most likely isn’t that high, and as far as I know, they’re still making new ships and people are most likely buying them.

I mean they’ve sold like $200m+ already right? I don’t think that well just suddenly dried up.

This thread is proof of that. Although it’s less people than previous threads.

Right but my point is they are 6+ year into the cycle and they have has a huge amount of money thrown at them and now its slowing down and people are asking for refunds. They have had to pay staff they have hired over that span so that money is essentially gone. They are a bit further down the timeline but i can probably guess that there aren't a ton of people paying $27k for the "new" capital ship that right there isn't enough to pay 1 guys salary for a year.... I'm not saying the refunds are that high but people that invested early on want money back and they just aren't getting as much as their were in the past few years.

 

[Krazy925]

Right but my point is they are 6+ year into the cycle and they have has a huge amount of money thrown at them and now its slowing down and people are asking for refunds. They have had to pay staff they have hired over that span so that money is essentially gone. They are a bit further down the timeline but i can probably guess that there aren't a ton of people paying $27k for the "new" capital ship that right there isn't enough to pay 1 guys salary for a year.... I'm not saying the refunds are that high but people that invested early on want money back and they just aren't getting as much as their were in the past few years.

For sure, totally agree. Paying big bucks for the voice work up front was a strange decision as well.
Many strange decisions.

 

[LightsOut41]

The fact that people still defend this mess is astounding.

Because they will never admit they made a huge fucking mistake by giving CIG thousands of dollars of their own money.

It dumbfounds me the amount of effort and passion they direct at detractors, when in reality the true believers should be steering their vitriol towards CIG and Christ Robbers for the complete lack of progress. They will never hold CIG nor CR accountable.

 

[N4CR]

For sure, totally agree. Paying big bucks for the voice work up front was a strange decision as well.
Many strange decisions.

That's right! They did that stuff years back eh and they don't even have a working game....
They also did movie stuff and tried to get his wife into as much shit as possible eh?
Sounds like they laundered all that cash out early then, kek.

 

[Korrd]

The logical progression of removing the refunds for backers is simple:
They don't have nearly the amount of money they want to continue this extremely long development cycle - They have to many people seeing the daylight and wanting a refund since they aren't delivering on their promises of having things completed according to their milestones. So instead of gaining money they are bleeding.
Something they are failing to see or just plain refusing to admit this is the most logical thing that is happening.

Your definition of logical seems very different from mine. Occam's Razor leads me to a different conclusion, or at least different possibilities. I won't assert any of them as necessarily true because I can't possibly know, which is clearly not a standard of thinking to which you adhere.

 

[Derangel]

So the same amount of time as kingdom hearts 3’s development cycle.

Both Chris Roberts and Tetsuya Nomura are perfectionists that keep adding and adding to try and make their games perfect. Both are great examples of why you don't have perfectionists in charge of things without people at hand to reign them in.

 

[meltdowner]

IN other news, No Man's Sky is about to get a big update.

Lol. I bought then returned the game 4 hours later.

Ignorant? look in a mirror son, I wrote the truth in that post, are you, or are you not, a dedicated, true believer that tolerates no ill spoken of Star Citizen? what the fuck does that make you, a critic? man, you Fanatics....

He told you some people are enjoying it!!! (1,000 basement dwellers)
Star Citizens really crack me up. I hope he posts mor

Oh, shit. Better tell all the people who play it every day that... they can't.

You mean try to..until it crashes.

We are a giant, glorious community of douchbags, we all just have different 'triggers'. I mean, go look at the Intel / AMD threads...

=)

OMG.

Okay. We'll unpack this is in baby steps.

1. Dude claimed lack of refunds means one of two things.
2. I pointed out that this claim is a false dichotomy and there could actually be other possibilities. I suggested a few alternatives to prove the point.
   
3. You got confused and thought the alternatives were actual reasons.

For the love of everything holy please tell me we're on the same page now because I feel like I'm having a stroke.

Lol

Korrd is referring to me, and what I said but I was using logic is this statement but he's clearly using his silver of argument against what I said to try to make some truth out of what he thinks. The logical progression of removing the refunds for backers is simple:
They don't have nearly the amount of money they want to continue this extremely long development cycle - They have to many people seeing the daylight and wanting a refund since they aren't delivering on their promises of having things completed according to their milestones. So instead of gaining money they are bleeding.
Something they are failing to see or just plain refusing to admit this is the most logical thing that is happening.
But I agree with you he's being belligerent about the situation.

This...this ship is finally sinking. It will be glorious.

 

[meltdowner]

Your definition of logical seems very different from mine. Occam's Razor leads me to a different conclusion, or at least different possibilities. I won't assert any of them as necessarily true because I can't possibly know, which is clearly not a standard of thinking to which you adhere.

100% denial stage

 

[Dan_D]

For sure, totally agree. Paying big bucks for the voice work up front was a strange decision as well.
Many strange decisions.

Generally voice work is done pretty late in the game's development as I understand it. The gross mismanagement of funds is so egregious its fucking hilarious. It's either total incompetence or greed from skimming the revenue for personal use. It's that simple. I'm not saying that its the latter. I have no proof, but I don't see any other possibility than those two things. Those are pretty simple possibilities that pass Occam's Razor.

 

[Krazy925]

Generally voice work is done pretty late in the game's development as I understand it. The gross mismanagement of funds is so egregious its fucking hilarious. It's either total incompetence or greed from skimming the revenue for personal use. It's that simple. I'm not saying that its the latter. I have no proof, but I don't see any other possibility than those two things. Those are pretty simple possibilities that pass Occam's Razor.

When it blew up that his wife was being paid exorbitant amounts of money, was when Star Citizen posts became interesting to me. I’d link to it but I’m lazy.

The whole thread turned into fans screaming what is the big deal, while everyone else laughed.

 

[Derangel]

Generally voice work is done pretty late in the game's development as I understand it. The gross mismanagement of funds is so egregious its fucking hilarious. It's either total incompetence or greed from skimming the revenue for personal use. It's that simple. I'm not saying that its the latter. I have no proof, but I don't see any other possibility than those two things. Those are pretty simple possibilities that pass Occam's Razor.

I'd imagine the timing for voice work depends on what all is needed to do for it. If they're scanning in the actor's faces while they talk and doing mo-cap then getting started earlier on in development would make sense. CG can take a long time to finish. Though, with S42 still being in pre-alpha it seems a bit premature to try and get all the actor work done now instead of later, when there is less chance of massive changes happening that could require a lot of follow-up work.

 

[Lizard Testes]

I'd imagine the timing for voice work depends on what all is needed to do for it. If they're scanning in the actor's faces while they talk and doing mo-cap then getting started earlier on in development would make sense. CG can take a long time to finish. Though, with S42 still being in pre-alpha it seems a bit premature to try and get all the actor work done now instead of later, when there is less chance of massive changes happening that could require a lot of follow-up work.

Now might be an okay time to be doing the VO/Mocap work for SQ42. Problem is they started doing it like three or four years ago.

Robberts (and his wife) wants to be making movies, not video games, just couldn't wait to start spending tens of millions on actors and mocap and equipment.

 

[Dan_D]

I'd imagine the timing for voice work depends on what all is needed to do for it. If they're scanning in the actor's faces while they talk and doing mo-cap then getting started earlier on in development would make sense. CG can take a long time to finish. Though, with S42 still being in pre-alpha it seems a bit premature to try and get all the actor work done now instead of later, when there is less chance of massive changes happening that could require a lot of follow-up work.

That's kind of my point. Story changes and last minute re-writes would necessitate doing the voice work later. Motion capture of actors early on would make sense, but not necessarily for anything other than basic voice work. It certainly wouldn't have justified the huge expense up front.

 

[Krazy925]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Gillian Anderson (Dana Scully) provide a lot of VO work early on?

 

[motomonkey]

That's kind of my point. Story changes and last minute re-writes would necessitate doing the voice work later. Motion capture of actors early on would make sense, but not necessarily for anything other than basic voice work. It certainly wouldn't have justified the huge expense up front.

It makes perfect sense if they rebooted the development cycle at some point, they have had game engine changes and massive feature creep, so it’s not unreasonable to assume the voice acting at that time was entirely appropriate.

 

[Krazy925]

It makes perfect sense if they rebooted the development cycle at some point, they have had game engine changes and massive feature creep, so it’s not unreasonable to assume the voice acting at that time was entirely appropriate.

So wait, are you telling me this game isn’t on time and has been significantly delayed? The horror!

 

[motomonkey]

So wait, are you telling me this game isn’t on time and has been significantly delayed? The horror!

Shocking, isn’t it?

 

[SomeoneElse]

Your definition of logical seems very different from mine. Occam's Razor leads me to a different conclusion, or at least different possibilities. I won't assert any of them as necessarily true because I can't possibly know, which is clearly not a standard of thinking to which you adhere.

So based on your logic, the best outcome you can come up with is that people are abusing the refund system? Ignoring the fact that backers (from the start) have waited 6+ years are now calling it quits and want their money back? And My logic is flawed?

 

[Lizard Testes]

"If funding stopped right now, we'd still have enough money to finish the game." - CHris Crobberts, 100 million dollars ago.

"1 dollar to us is like 4 or 5 dollars to a regular company since we don't have to worry about marketing or other publisher costs and overhead" - Christ Roberts, explaining why his 150 million dollar game will really be equivalent to a 750 million dollar game but for some reason plays like a 10 million dollar game.

"We're already a year in. Two more years will put us at three years which is ideal, any longer and the game will start to get stale" - Cris Roblerts in 2012.

 

[Mut1ny]

"If funding stopped right now, we'd still have enough money to finish the game." - CHris Crobberts, 100 million dollars ago.

Good, so they have more money to do more stuff and hire more people. What's the problem?

"1 dollar to us is like 4 or 5 dollars to a regular company since we don't have to worry about marketing or other publisher costs and overhead" - Christ Roberts, explaining why his 150 million dollar game will really be equivalent to a 750 million dollar game but for some reason plays like a 10 million dollar game.

For an alpha I guess you considering it being worth $10 million isn't so bad! What's the problem?

"We're already a year in. Two more years will put us at three years which is ideal, any longer and the game will start to get stale" - Cris Roblerts in 2012.

Before expanding ideas, employees, funds, etc. Yeah, things change. Welcome to game development. Keep going back to examples and statements from a few years ago...really helps your argument in the now. So what's the problem here?

 

[Lizard Testes]

Good, so they have more money to do more stuff and hire more people. What's the problem?

The problem is that he was either lying or an incompetent idiot. It's unlikely that he'll be able to deliver on all the promises he made even with 250 million dollars so the notion that he could do it with 75 million or whatever they were at when he said that, is nonsense. The game has become a literal Ponzi scheme.

For an alpha I guess you considering it being worth $10 million isn't so bad! What's the problem?

I assure you it is quite bad when the game you've spent over 100 million on so far seems like it cost 1/10th that. Roberts is an incompetent manager and has pissed away many tens of millions of dollars.

Before expanding ideas, employees, funds, etc. Yeah, things change. Welcome to game development. Keep going back to examples and statements from a few years ago...really helps your argument in the now. So what's the problem here?

"More money means we'll be able to hire more people to implement our ideas faster so adding more features won't really delay the game" chris robblerts on the subject of feature creep.

Also lol at your argument boiling down to "All the stuff chris said in the past was dumb and ended up being wrong but all the stuff he's saying now is true and good!"

 

[Mut1ny]

The problem is that he was either lying or an incompetent idiot. It's unlikely that he'll be able to deliver on all the promises he made even with 250 million dollars so the notion that he could do it with 75 million or whatever they were at when he said that, is nonsense. The game has become a literal Ponzi scheme.

Where's your proof for any of this? Also, it isn't a "Ponzi scheme"...go look up the definition of that and tell me how it applies.

I assure you it is quite bad when the game you've spent over 100 million on so far seems like it cost 1/10th that. Roberts is an incompetent manager and has pissed away many tens of millions of dollars.

Where is proof of this? How has he pissed away 10's of millions of dollars?

"More money means we'll be able to hire more people to implement our ideas faster so adding more features won't really delay the game" chris robblerts on the subject of feature creep.

Also lol at your argument boiling down to "All the stuff chris said in the past was dumb and ended up being wrong but all the stuff he's saying now is true and good!"

Where is your proof for any of this? How do you know what they have and haven't done? Do you keep up with the games development? Tell me, how far along are they with the mining module of the game? How far along are they with procedural city building? What about EVA? Do you know anything about what's ACTUALLY being done?

 

[Lizard Testes]

Where's your proof for any of this?

The Jennison letter, Chris Roberts history and reputation, and their increasingly sleazy sales tactics.

Also, it isn't a "Ponzi scheme"...go look up the definition of that and tell me how it applies.

It’s exactly a Ponzi. Chris has to keep inventing and selling more and more ships just to get enough money to deliver the ships and gameplay that he’s already sold and promised

 

[Mut1ny]

The Jennison letter

Care to provide more information?

Chris Roberts history and reputation

No one can do better than they've done in the past, gotcha.

increasingly sleazy sales tactics

You mean offering things that people can choose to buy with their own money?

It’s exactly a Ponzi.

No it isn't.

 

[Lizard Testes]

Care to provide more information?

lrn2google

No one can do better than they've done in the past, gotcha.

Yes, I'm sure being out of the industry for over 10 years has made Roberts a much better manager despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.

You mean offering things that people can choose to buy with their own money?

More like discounts for fresh cash and numerous other sleazy marketing 101 tactics.

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

 

[Lizard Testes]

Ah hell, I'll post it in case anyone hasn't seen it and wants to read it

Why I’m Leaving CIG

Based on the quality bar that has been set for this project, a Star Citizen character takes me anywhere from 3-6 weeks to get in game. I have been working at CIG for 17 months. In that time I have completed exactly 5 characters. That’s 24 weeks at most.

So why is this?

• Ingredients for Success

There are three main ingredients that are needed to produce quality characters for a project. These are concept, budget, and time.

To say it simply, a character is usually only as good as its concept, since it is the concept that defines the parameters of the execution of the character. There can certainly be bad models created from good concepts, but rarely do bad concepts produce good models. Since the concept is the biggest influence of the model, then it is of utmost importance that the concept doesn’t change once the model has been started. Rob and Megan are two very talented artists that have produced great concepts for us since I have been here. It’s when either these concepts are changed during model creation, or after model completion, that causes problems. This is when direction wants changes to the design of the character rather than the implementation of the concept.

There is an important distinction to be made about asset feedback. Different stages in the process require different types of feedback. If a concept gets approved, then the only feedback for the completed model should be about how well the concept was realized and the quality of the model (sculpt, textures). When the feedback on the model is about the design (“I don’t like the leg straps”) then the problem is with the concept, not the model. I have been doing this long enough to know that sometimes problems don’t come to the surface until after the model is created, sometimes things just don’t translate to 3D the way you expected. But this should be the exception, not the rule. This was a perpetual problem in my time here, a concept gets approved, and then unapproved after the model is created- concept level feedback on models.

In looking over the models of the FPS Marines and Pirates, it should be clear that some are better than others. The difference in quality? Concept. The Heavy Marine and Heavy Pirate had completed concepts that did not change through the building of the model. They are a balanced and polished piece of art as intended by the concept artist. The others? Their concepts changed repeatedly during the model building. They crawled to the finish line as Frankenstein assets, cobbled together by different artists. The next important factor is budget. Anyone who has worked in game art knows that quality is not measured in a vacuum. Quality only exists relative to the available budget- tris and pixels. You plan and build your character based on the budget you expect to have. When I started here, I was astounded to learn that no one was able to tell me the budget for character assets. People seemed to be operating under the mantra “It’s CryEngine, the budget is irrelevant” This attitude for game art production is suicide in a bottle. This apparently is still a difficult question to answer. In the absence of budget, Roberts judges all game assets against his own imagination or an asset in another game. Time is the last ingredient. When an artist is moved off and on an asset, the asset suffers. Staying in the “zone” on a character keeps the motivation high, the excitement stays constant and keeps the momentum constant for moving through the difficulties encountered. Your energy tends not to stall when you can go at an asset full bore through the life of the process. Very rarely did anything I worked on enjoy unbroken attention from me. I know there are always times when the project demands you to hop on something, put out a fire, but this has been a chronic problem during my time here. The Sataball Suit, the last asset we made, was met with satisfaction and praise. What was different? We started with a clear, approved concept, a clear budget, and were given the time to build the model. The methods for creating this model were completely traditional, no new pipeline. The pipeline was never the problem. The problem was not getting the three required ingredients. When we get what we need, we can shine.

• Completion and Unapproval

The simple feeling of completing a task is something that we all take for granted. Whether it’s graduating with a degree or emptying the sink of dirty dishes, the feeling that you have actually done something (especially if it is difficult) gives your day, your week, or your life a sense of progression. You are moving forward and hopefully bettering your situation. We all thrive on the satisfaction of completing a task.

This is why redoing a task over and over again is so draining to the psyche. Now, to be clear- I expect to have to redo things at times. Sometimes the circumstances change, the asset becomes problematic, or the bar has been greatly raised by adjacent assets within the context of the game.

Redoing something more than once? Repeatedly? Every asset? Repeatedly? It is clearly not about the asset or the artist. Several times since I have been here, I have had an asset approved by CR only to learn weeks or months later that he had decided that it wasn’t good enough.

One production phenomenon that has become familiar to anyone working under Roberts is ‘Unapproval.’ That is, when something that was previously approved becomes unacceptable later on in production for reasons known to Roberts only. It is usually based on whim or a nebulous quality bar that has shifted.

When you get approval only to have it revoked later on, repeatedly, approval becomes meaningless. It is no longer a metric of progression. It does not energize or motivate you. It is met with apathy or cynicism.

Redoing the same asset over and over again kills the spirit, and I suspect this was largely the reason the UK character team collapsed.

• Ownership

It is essential that artists take ownership of their assets. It is what drives an artist, draws forth the best of their abilities, and makes them stick through the difficult points in the process of creation. There is nothing more satisfying for an artist than to look at a completed work and saying “I made that”. Ownership also makes it easy to know who is accountable for problems with the asset and forces artists to work in a clean and efficient manner that minimizes future problems because they know that they alone will be held responsible if their asset breaks something or looks bad. When assets are perpetually passed from artist to artist, especially if they are “ducktaping” work done by other artists, there is zero sense of ownership. You are the clean-up crew instead of the creator and this very quickly saps your motivation to do your best. Why? Well because you can’t really claim ownership. It wasn’t your asset. Authority and Responsibility

When someone is hired for a position there is a direct ratio of the authority that they can expect to have, and the amount of responsibility that they will be expected to have. A junior level artist doesn’t expect to be able to make any real decisions on how things are done, but no one would hold them responsible if the pipeline or character art as a whole is sub-par. Conversely, a Lead should expect to have most of the control on pipeline and asset review, and for that privilege and trust they trade accountability for the pipeline efficiency and asset quality as a whole. Because they make larger scale decisions on the system, they a held accountable for what that system produces.

It became clear within a matter of weeks of working at CIG, that all the decisions for the character pipeline and approach had been made- by Roberts. It became clear that this was a company-wide pattern- CR dictates all. Instead of articulating the standard for approval and allowing the team to develop the best methods to meet this bar, Roberts dictates what the method is, usually with a fraction of the knowledge that the employee has over their particular field. Then, when the plan or method fails to produce the results CR wants, the employee inevitable takes the blame, after all they are responsible for their corner of the game.

• The Bus

When you have someone at the top who wants to make every decision but is accountable for no decisions he makes and is keen on publicly blaming those beneath him for those bad decisions, it creates an environment of people desperate to avoid that blame. Since no one can hold CR accountable, and they certainly don’t want to be made out at fault, they point fingers at anyone else. This breeds distrust and resentment among coworkers. I have been a victim of undue blame at times and am sure that I have thrown others under the bus as well.

• Forrest Stephan (Remark: CG Supervisour at CIG, was before a Lead Technical Artist)

Forrest became involved in the character pipeline when it was decided to redo the FPS characters. I like Forrest on a personal level. I think he is a good guy at heart and is doing the best job he can with the experience and personality he has. His mandate from CR was to improve the look of the characters. So what is the problem? Experience and attitude. Forrest came into the character pipeline full force. He had already decided what was lacking for characters. Namely- the ship art pipeline and techniques. He was not concerned with budget and memory. He was not concerned with time. He wanted what CR wanted- great looking screenshots. He dismissed my concerns about the time it will take to do characters like ships, tri count, and memory. He told me that I didn’t know how to model characters (after eight years of doing this). Forrest is very green, but more importantly it is obvious that he does not know how to deal with conflict or even disagreement. Putting someone with so little experience in games and no experience with characters in charge of the character team was frankly insulting. Billy and I spent a month undoing many of the ship techniques that Forrest had insisted on- mostly multiple materials and how the UVs were laid out. I wouldn’t expect someone at Forrest’s experience level to know what is common sense to anyone who has shipped a title. That is-plan for the game, not for screenshots and know that you will have less memory than you think. Forrest made every rookie mistake in the book in his charge, but what was worse is that he mowed down anyone who challenged his naive assumptions with insults and dismissal. With CR at his back, he stomped around like a child wearing his Father’s boots. Convincing Forrest that he might be wrong about something is a campaign in itself. Forrest might have value from his contributions to other areas of the art, but his involvement with characters was wasteful in time and effort, and absolutely corrosive to moral. He is simply the wrong man for the job and is one of my biggest reasons for leaving.

• The Elephant in the room

Visions are cheap. Ideas are cheap. A good leader is not simply someone with a vision or a great idea. A good leader not only has the vision, but they can communicate that visionto the team, and more importantly they inspire and energize the team members with that vision. Chris Roberts might have a vision but he can’t communicate it. And therefore, no one on the team knows what it is. This is known to every team member, certainly of the art team. Roberts is not an artist and it is clear he is not a visual communicator. The basic understanding of macro vs micro, what is essential to the piece and what is not, completely escapes him. Everything is of equal importance- the laces on the boot are just as important as the overall value pallet and silhouette, in many cases more. This is indicative of Robert’s extreme lack of understanding of the most basic of artistic principals. That level of ignorance and lack of visual depth for an artist would be problematic, but for someone at a director level, it is absolutely crippling to a project.

Robert’s deficit wouldn’t be much of a problem if he trusted the vision of the art directors, people who are actually artist and have directed other artists. But he doesn’t, insisting that he is the only one who can direct the artists. I suspect this is an issue of ego, a man intent on appearing like a visionary. But regardless, the results so far have been disastrous, rife with perpetual rework, wasted time, and mass frustration. No one can buy into CR’s artistic vision because no one, including CR, seems to know what it is.

So the one thing that no one discusses is the biggest problem. Roberts is someone who on a company- wide level is always feared, but never respected. His direction is met with nervous compliance to his face, and rolled-eyed resentment behind his back. When his orders are articulated later to the rest of the team, and basic questions of logic and practicality are inevitable asked, they are met not with an explanation of why CR’s idea is a good one, but the importance of his happiness. The explanation is always the same- “I know it makes no sense, but that’s what CR wants”. This team is filled with people who have experience publishing other titles. Lots. We all know how it is “supposed” to be done. But everyone is faced with the same repeated dilemma, a choice- make CR happy or do what works for the game? Short term survival vs long term wins. And unfortunately it’s the survival option that wins out, mainly because turning away from a directive of CR is a recipe for unemployment.

I am only speaking from one corner of this project, but I know that the micro managerial frustration experience is an epidemic at CIG. Everyone seems to be unhappy for the exact same reason. I don’t foresee anything changing at CIG if Roberts doesn’t change himself. And this is a shame because the company has all the ingredients to do something truly great, if only they would be allowed to do it.

 

[Aireoth]

Ah hell, I'll post it in case anyone hasn't seen it and wants to read it

Good luck, it's like trying to convince a cult follower not to drink that koolaid.